POTD – Bastardised scrawl

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  • andnowwhat

    F*** the Pop?

    I totally concur. Haven’t heard a decent song on Radio 1 for a decade or more.

  • pippakin

    Pop, so many meanings, but I suspect the Father the writer was referring to wasn’t his own…

    Bastardised scrawl? now that can apply to so many comments and moods, my own mood at the moment is somewhat unleashed but still I can’t imagine scrawling anything anywhere. Someone appears to be trying to make a point and has only succeeded in infuriating everyone including, probably, those deluded lovers of modern pop music…

  • Munsterview

    Pip : anyone farmilar with Orange sectarian bigotry and indoctrination will know what was intended even if the cretin concerned eider could not spell or was to ‘juiced out of it’ to do the job properly.

    The late Joe Cahill told me of a bell that was imported for some Catholic church and had come through Northern Customs where the bell crate had been opened and checked. When the crate was again opened at the church the bell had ‘Fuck The Pope’ scored into it. Joe was then about 12 years and he said that it was one of the things that stayed in his mind that nothing is sacred or off limits as far as these sectarian bigots are concerned.

    At least it is some progress since last year, this is only on a hoarding, then it was on the cheeks of teenage put there as one of the face-painting delights available in the ‘Orange Festival Of Culture’

    Some ‘culture’ indeed! However going on usual form the boot will be put into Moochin for recording this with little or no discussions on the ‘Loyalist Pond Life. or the mentality that put the scrawl there.

  • Munsterview

    Pip : anyone farmilar with Orange sectarian bigotry and indoctrination will know what was intended even if the cretin concerned either could not spell or was too ‘juiced out of it’ to do the job properly.

    The late Joe Cahill told me of a bell that was imported for some Catholic church and had come through Northern Customs where the bell crate had been opened and checked. When the crate was again opened at the church the bell had ‘Fuck The Pope’ scored into it. Joe was then about 12 years and he said that it was one of the things that stayed in his mind that nothing is sacred or off limits as far as these sectarian bigots are concerned.

    At least it is some progress since last year, this is only on a hoarding, then it was on the cheeks of teenage put there as one of the face-painting delights available in the ‘Orange Festival Of Culture’

    Some ‘culture’ indeed! However going on usual form the boot will be put into Moochin for recording this with little or no discussions on the ‘Loyalist Pond Life. or the mentality that put the scrawl there.

  • Comrade Stalin

    MV,

    Give me a break. I remember writing “IRA” on the desks in the earlier parts of my school days. I hadn’t really a clue what it meant then, and I’m sure the same applies to the idiot who wrote this.

  • andnowwhat

    This picture has given me an idea based on the infamous chippy For Cod and Ulster. Think I’ll start and indy music night called “No Pop Here”.

  • jthree

    Once again Moochin Photoman has shown his obvious bias and clear disdain for Loyalist/Protestant culture, blah, blah etc

  • Munsterview

    CS : “….Give me a break. I remember writing “IRA” on the desks in the earlier parts of my school days. I hadn’t really a clue what it meant then, and I’m sure the same applies to the idiot who wrote this…..”

    Right on cue and your contribution just goes to illustrate the correctness of my recent observations on another post regarding the Alliance Party and it’s actions regarding sectarianism as distinct from the party’s stated policy.

    You could have confronted and debated the innate sectarianism of what was involved.

    What did is what Alliance and it’s supporters usually do supporter do : you tried to explain away the offensive scrawl, to diminish the significance of it and to dismiss it !

    CS: “…Give me a break….”

    On the contrary why do you not give the Republicans and Nationalists a break from this apologist for sectarianism waffle, we have heard it all since 69 and for centuries before !

    If you do not want to confront it, you could at least have the courage of your real political convictions, invest in an orange collar ect and start a confrontation by marching off in full regalia to somewhere you are wanted !

  • Munsterview, the late Joe Cahill is hardly a great example of civilised behaviour. If only he had stuck to printing and political action …

  • Comrade Stalin

    Right on cue and your contribution just goes to illustrate the correctness of my recent observations on another post regarding the Alliance Party and it’s actions regarding sectarianism as distinct from the party’s stated policy.

    I’m getting a lecture on sectarianism from a person quoting an IRA leader. I’m not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

    You could have confronted and debated the innate sectarianism of what was involved.

    Like the way you confronted Joe Cahill ?

  • Mike the First

    Touché, Comrade Stalin and Nevin!

    Musterview is talking like he’s never seen “KAH” scrawled/sprayed on a wall. Maybe he hasn’t – not sure how familiar he is with NI…

  • michael-mcivor

    Maybe the scrawler was drunk and thought it had wrote f***k the pup-

  • Joe Cahill as anti-sectarian hero. Sure.

    On a related note to this graffiti, people might be interested in this revolutionary opinion of the Pope from France in 1790.

    http://www.marxists.org/history/france/revolution/hebert/1790/pope.htm

  • pippakin

    MV

    I don’t think you need a college degree or even the unlamented Joe Cahill to know what was meant. Its yet another example that bigotry is alive and well in the north. The danger is this sort of thing is usually the work of the young and clearly in this case unemployable. If you take it too seriously you not only run the risk of tarring all with the same brush, you may offend all those who are completely innocent.

  • Rory Carr

    A grievance against a parent; a didenchantment with modern music; a truncated spelling of ‘pope’; a drunken misspelling of ‘P.U.P.’; a dislike of fizzy drinks; all of these are indeed possibe but not, in anyone’s wildest imagination, at least I trust, a misspelling of ‘Pip’ who is loved by all even the lonely, lost scribblers on available walls.

    I just happen to have solved the mystery and can say with absolute certainty that the scrawl was put there by a drunken, disillusioned member of the Green Party who, knowing that he is forever doomed to political obscurity, nevertheless must make his mark. And the mark he makes stands for:

    Persistent Organic Pollutants

    a reference no doubt to the… (here fill in your own favourites: the Orange Order; X Factor Panel; Take That; Jeremy Kyle and his guests; Ulster Gospel singers; Modern Vampire novelists;Hedge Fund Managers;LibDems; whatever.

  • sdelaneys

    Fuck the pop and that old weasel that goes pop too.
    What will we do with orangemen who attend catholic funerals for dead policemen?

  • Light23

    I say fuck the pope too, and that’s nothing to do with “bigotry”. Child abuse scandals and all the other general crap that the Catholic Church has done. They’re not exactly the most PR friendly organisation.

  • Interesting to see that it qualifies for a capital “P”.

    And I detect a “-” there after the “Pop”.

    An impressionist hood who hates Warhol and Co (ie “FT Pop-Art”)?

    And lucky for us Photoman caught him just in time before he had time to finish the full insult?

  • Light23

    In the interests of fairness, I’d like to extend a great big “fuck you” to the Orange Order too. I wouldn’t want them to feel like they’re missing out.

  • andnowwhat

    Light23

    In light of the following, it would be hard to argue with you

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14920403

  • galloglaigh

    I remember graffiti daubed on a wall in the Bogside

    ‘Sinn Féin are Traders’. I’m trying to find a link?

    Light23

    Wouldn’t it be some craic if the Orange order expelled them. They do take some wired steps in attempting to gain respect from Catholics!

  • galloglaigh

    *Weird

  • Munsterview

    gall : as in wired to the moon ‘weird’ ?

  • andnowwhat

    Just to explain my link, St Simon’s Church Total Abstinence LOL 821, Sandy Row have put in a complaint against Tom Elliot and Danny Kennedy for attending Constable Ronan Kerr’s funeral.

    When the complaint was first made, it was thought that it would go little further. Seems not.

  • galloglaigh

    MV

    Wired to something. Their reasoning is that far out, NASA would have trouble finding it!

  • galloglaigh

    It’s funny that they can’t go to ‘Mass’ but they can walk the Queen’s Highway with the UVF.

  • Davy McFaul

    Insofar as Belfast graffiti goes my favorite is probably the brilliantly succinct legend:

    “Tom King is a specky bastard”

    Which adorned the gable wall of Lenadoon Avenue flats in the mid eighties

  • Munsterview

    Mike the….” Musterview is talking like he’s never seen “KAH” scrawled/sprayed on a wall. Maybe he hasn’t – not sure how familiar he is with NI…”

    Mike; once in the seventies when on the Sinn Fein Ard Comhairle, while passing through a place in Munster I see a “Brits Out of ireland” slogan on a wall….. and the wall happened to be a around a C of I Church and grounds. While it was well away from the gate entrance, it was still church property and along a main road to boot.

    I immediately broke off my journey, went to the RC priest in the area and got the information from him as to how long it was there and as to who probably did it. I then approached the local Senior Republican in a nearby town who admitted that it was ‘his people’ that did it, but that it was just another convenient wall as far as they were concerned and that there was no sectarian intent. ‘Words were exchanged’ but he refused to have it removed.

    I made a call to somebody who went and met somebody else in person and the word came back down the line to the Area Senior Republican, I had been requested to deal with the matter and my instructions were to be followed on the matter. I then as authorized approached the area C of I Minister, informed him as to who had done the slogan and gave him a formal apology for the action. I also informed him as to where the instructions for that apology had come from.

    My instructions to the Senior Republican was not just to remove the slogan from Church property but to do so the following evening between five and six o’clock as people were coming home from work. I also named a few other known local republicans who I wanted there as a visible presence as the slogan was removed, something in fact they were told to take their time about as they needed to be seen doing it.

    It was done as per instructions. The cynics here will say I did it as I could appreciate the PR implications if it was left sit there and the press made mischief with it. Of course that was a consideration, but not the primary one. First such a slogan should not have been on any church property or public building and secondly it could have been taken as aimed specifically at that church community and as such regarded as sectarianism. It also could be seen as by implication in some way associating this congeration with actual Protestant sectarianism in the North.

    The local C of I Minister appreciated the way the situation was handled and especially the way the slogan was removed. Not surprising that Sinn Fein from the next election and there after were able to count on a level of support that has translated into some C of I SF memberships.

    We in the South also have our Protestant heros like Plant ( George Plant was born in 1904, the second son of Albert and Kathleen Plant, a devout Church of Ireland couple who ran an 80-acre farm near Fethard,) and heroines such as the sister of Lord Middletown, Surrey woman Lady Albina Brodrick. Attitudes may differ in the North but in the South the respect was always there and what I did and took a stand on was for the legacy of these people and their like to the Republican Movement.

  • The scrawl was done with chalk, i noticed it and photographed it 3 weeks ago. I think it was changed last week.

  • TwilightoftheProds

    MV
    Thats to be commended but don’t get too self congratulatory. The real test of anti sectarianism comes when the given ‘minority’ is much more substantial in size, voting in numbers for people you really don’t agree with, or mobilised and staring at you across an interface, and not just a small percentage that may be patted on the head. Taking a stand in memory of those who ‘crossed the floor’ and became republicans is the smallest step- harder by far to respect those whose political identities directly clash with our own. And thats whats needed up here.

    by the way, KAH is a commonly spied acronym meaning ‘Kill all Huns’ – huns being a pejorative for Protestant. Its mirror image is KAT- ‘kill all taigs.’ Any sentiments of Tone are completely absent from our walls -the likes of Bulmer Hobson and Henry Joy McCracken are largely pub quiz questions. We seem to much prefer rhetorical genocide.

  • Munsterview

    Twilight…: “….Thats to be commended but don’t get too self congratulatory….”

    Assuming for the present that your persona is genuine. unlike that carrying the name of a certain European city infamous for horses and criminal activity, that so far is indicative of some alias doing another Masky ( remember him) in ‘abuse did not work let’s try ridicule stunt’, I will engage.

    Nothing self congratulatory about my attitude as outlined.

    Early in the seventies when a trickle of firearms for defense of Nationalist areas were making their way North, a certain well known Republican in a certain Western area waylaid a consignment, stymied the ‘pipeline’ and refused to hand them over until he had explanations and accountability regarding a certain event which he regarded ‘prima faci’ from media accounts as indicating that a local IRA unit could have been involved in sectarianism.

    ( Incidently that man now lives in the North and is in a decades long relationship with a Protestant partner of Unionist background! )

    It was a natural for that man to do as he did as it was for him to form a relationship with a woman he fell in love with oblivious to her background and as it was for me to do as I did. I will admit that in the early days and years of the campaign, given the youth and inexperience of some of those involved, some Northern Vols did not differentiate between ‘ Prods’ OO, RUC, B Specials, and the rest of the other elements of the State Oppressive apparatus, all were seen by those individuals as component parts of a generic, cohesive totality.

    In practice very often they were correct in their assumptions, the Oppressive Orange State that they experienced operated as a seamless whole. However the Brits yet again provided the Republican University system of Long Kesh and the Maidstone Prison Ship and Armagh where the Republican generation now in power where politically educated in the realities of Irish History politics and culture.

    From Burntollet Bridge and the attack on peaceful, unarmed young male and female marching students with among other weapons, pickax handles spiked with six-inch nails, to the Bogside Massacre murders some years later there is a consistent unbroken journey of oppression milestoned by literally thousands of acts of State brutality against Catholics, Nationalists and Republicans..

    The Bogside Bloody Sunday Massacre ( which is still not accepted for what it was by some slugger posters here and these are supposed the represent in someway ‘engaged, progressive’ Protestant thinking ) was but the same lesson for Nationalists as delivered by a chaotic ad hoc mob of sectarian criminals, Orange Order bigots and uniformed State tugs at the Burntollet Bridge oppressive brutality, but now delivered by the same State Forces with the same intent, with cold deliberate, organized, calculated, Whitehall’ sanctioned professional, murdering, ruthless efficiency.

    Little surprise then that when John Hume who detested all applied physical force for political ends, grimly declared that it had to be a United Ireland, that he spoke for the gut instincts of the majority of the Nationalist population as the Catholics / Nationalists / Republicans would never again trust the OO Statelet or their British sponsors. Any agreed Governance structures by Catholics /Nationalists/Republicans would have to be a means and a staging post to that end of a United Irish Republic on this Island..

    He was of course correct, those speaking for the ‘bastions of protestant liberalism’, such as Gregory Campbell and Sammy Wilson et al are but saying in a generalized yahoo sectarian way what the OO like the Sandy Row Lodge Officers are saying starkly and explicitly. This rump of Orange bigotry and innate sectarianism is at the heart of the Northern Protestant Establishment and cannot be reformed, it can only be replaced.

    That is the thinking of all Republicans irrespective of wether they are perusing this goal be Mainstream Sinn Fein democratic political means or fringe Republican armed activity. The fact that it has also become the Majority Nationalist thinking is mirrored by the voting strength of Sinn Fein in the Northern Assembly and other elections.

    Do the Assembly Protestant backbencher ‘throwbacks’ and some front benchers also ever stop to think when they begin a chorus of ‘monkey noises’ as a Sinn Fein Assembly Member begin to speak in Gaelic as to how that is playing out to qualified Nationalist Medical Doctors, Academic Doctors, University Lecturers, Masters, BA’s Lawyers, Mechanical and Civil Engineers and all the other educated professionals increasingly to be found in Sinn Fein ranks ?

    Every such instinctive, or calculated Orange bigoted reaction to an expression of the Majority and indigenous Culture of this Island is but another indication that these people are not yet ready to even begin contemplating ‘respect’ !

    These ongoing insults are also worth another hundred votes plus, switched to stay, to Sinn Fein, every time it happens as those educated Nationalist people and indeed non Third-Level people, just like Hume after Bloody Sunday decides, ‘this is it, I have had it with that lot, it has to be a United Ireland, Sinn Fein gets my vote’ !

    The fact that the more intelligent, aware intellects in Unionism are able to appreciate this but yet cannot control or prevent such outbursts from their own reactionaries, who in turn are relying to ‘playing to a sectarian gallery’ for votes, illustrates just how integrated sectarianism is in the OO / Unionism / Protestantism culture in the Six Counties.

    And you dare to speak of respect?

    It is just like that infamous line in the Marine Film ‘Truth, you can’t handle the truth’ !

    When there is a full admission on the Orange Protestant side starting with admitting that they hijacked and annexed the Two Counties that voted for a Thirty Two County Republic into their Sectarian Orange Statelet and why, denying these Two Counties the very rights in relation to the their Four Counties that they were in turn demanding from the Twenty-Eight Counties in relation to their Four Counties, then perhaps we can face a root and branch examination of Armed force and violence in Northern Society starting with one of the primary root causes!

    This is but one of the many legacy contradictions at the heart of the Northern State, glaringly obvious and oppressive to Northern Catholics / Republicans / Nationalists that remains unacknowledged never mind addressed by Northern Unionists / Protestants. Instead we get the all too farmilar Fianna Failed mantra after yet another cock up and consequent disaster ” well we are where we are, can we move on ? ” as if how we got to a particular point had absolutely nothing to do with FF or Unionism!

    That hijacking and annexation of the Republican Majorities of those Two Counties and the landmass of the Counties themselves into the Orange Statelet was a negation of the very rights that the Four Orange Order Counties were demanding for themselves.

    Any examination of ‘respect’ rights or responsibilities must start with that brutal and unjustifiable annexation that can only be compared with the annexations of Hitler in Europe twenty years later or that of The Israeli State of the Palestinian Lands and territory in contemporary terms.

    What are the chances of such a ‘foundation mythology’ examination of the Northern State Twilight ?

    I am very much afraid that it will be a case of ‘truth : you can’t handle the truth’ in the North for a long while yet!

    Just as the real reasons, politics, security aspects, economic strategies etc of British occupation of former Colonial countries had to await Post Liberation Colonial studies ( which most English Universities now enthuse embrace (as they once did the turning out of ‘Empire Kiplings’ ) for a detailed examination, so also it seems we will have to await post unity before these studies of the foundation mythologies can be really examined in the North and even then, I would hazard a guess, only within academic environments.

    de Gaulle once said in the course of a statement that ” People get the History they deserve ”

    The majority Irish population on this Island of Ireland did not deserve the history they got from both Britain and Orange Order in the 20th, century no more than they did the oppressions in the 19th, century or that from Planters and English in the previous centuries.

    Republicans are determined that the 21th century will not be a repeat of past centuries and the sooner that particular political penny drops with OO intransigents, the sooner the majority of us on this Island can go ahead an bin both Dev’s grotesque parody of a Republic where Judges of the Superior Courts were still addressed in terms of ‘My Lord’ and ‘ If your Lordship Pleases’ until quite recently and the OO state legacy of misrule can both binned for a New Pluralist Republic.

    Guarantees of all religious expression, should not be as ‘special right’ in respect of any religion, majority or minority, but in the context of a general religious and civil liberty. The Assembly is unloved and unlovable by all participants with the possible exception of Alliance. Other than using the appropriated the name of ‘Dail Eireann’ the Lienster House Assembly is as far removed from the ideals of the First Dail as the previous Stormount was from democracy.

    Neither should administrative power be concentrated in one or two centers, the doctrine of subsidiarily ( that no superior governing structure should hold and exercise power that could be properly exercised by a lower administrative structure, a Theologically supported Ideal of Roman Catholic Teachings incidently) should be rigorously applied.

    Somebody in Beara in the South West that want to sort out their pension rights have to travel to Sligo to sort out their problems just because a Minister of the day during the Fianna Failed abuse of power had a Minister that had the ‘juice’ to deliver a big revenue spend to his constituency without regard for public inconvenience just the same as that other plonker O’Donoghue stranded other services in Kerry.

    We have a chance North, South, East and West to have real power-sharing on this Island and build a New Republic. No more special positions for anyone, just a constitution that guarantees and enshrines universal rights and under which any one group or sector such as the OO can exercise power and influence but only proportionate to their size.

    At least Republicans can now put forward these concepts without having to look down the barrel of a gun!

  • TwilightoftheProds

    MV

    Nope – didn’t get any of that. Bit too fuzzy at 1800 words length.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Thats to be commended but don’t get too self congratulatory.

    Don’t set him off. Munsterview was there when Michael Collins was shot, personally went out on the piss with Arthur Griffith, and trained Richard Barton on how to use a rifle. So he knows best.

  • Munsterview

    C S I think that I will have to make some ‘masky time’ just for you with the same results!

  • Brian

    Do the Assembly Protestant backbencher ‘throwbacks’ and “some front benchers also ever stop to think when they begin a chorus of ‘monkey noises’ as a Sinn Fein Assembly Member begin to speak in Gaelic as to how that is playing out to qualified Nationalist Medical Doctors, Academic Doctors, University Lecturers, Masters, BA’s Lawyers, Mechanical and Civil Engineers and all the other educated professionals increasingly to be found in Sinn Fein ranks ?”

    More people are drawn to Sinn Fein now that their fantasist attempt at armed revolution was given up for good and they accepted democratic means. No surprise there.

    “personally went out on the piss with Arthur Griffith”
    Well, his earlier anti-semite comments he may have picked up from old Arthur (who was a great man, btw, but a man of his time in that regard).

  • Munsterview

    Brian : ” ….“personally went out on the piss with Arthur Griffith”…”

    If you want your comments to be taken seriously and responded to then you will not threat a fictious piece that was deliberately derisory and disrespectful in the same way as serious comment as the former dilutes the latter which of course is the intention.

    Then again as I have previously pointed out you are an unqualified apologist for the Twenty-Six County Establishment and as such, like Alias and his support for the Israelis creating a situation where a perceived supporter of that State’s enemy is his enemy also, somebody opposed to the Southern Establishment Institutionalized Corruption is your enemy too. At very least you both run on parallel tracks!

    And then there is the other wee matter that will become clearer when I have time to feed a bunch of your posts through my bench computer and done a proper comparison with some alias here as I have done with others, I expect so many parallels to emerge that the conclusion will be inescapable and obvious.

    Meanwhile on the off chance that you are the real McCoy, you have a simple choice, keep to the spirit of slugger or join with the ‘monkey noise’ yahoos.

    I have absolutely no problem in dealing with the latter in a robust way but Mick unfortunately has a problem with that approach, depending on the user. I can contest on equal terms and be carded for it, or like I am currently doing with another ‘Masky’ type creation of some alias, named for a certain European City infamous for horses and criminal gangs, I can ignore it completely.

  • Munsterview

    Twilight : “….Assuming for the present that your persona is genuine….”

    Well now I know !

    Not a waste of time however, as I keep pointing out there is a young generation of Nationalists and Republicans out there that have to learn the ropes. Anytime I write in detail as I did with that ‘1800 words’ ?

    I do so with first off them in mind, second with the type of decent Protestants up there that it has been my privilege to know through the the circles of the late Davie Hammond and James Simmons, ( and it just shows how abnormal Northern Society is that If I named any of my living artistic and cultural friends and their circles, I could, and almost certainly would be inadvertently setting them up for personal injury or property damage from the type of Loyalist cretins that ‘Moochin’ regularly highlight here through their graffiti ) third is for interested parties internationally of Irish extraction, fourth is for my English and other friends in the neighboring Island.

    Others such as Comrade S, Brian et al who are more interested in point scoring than dialogue are only of interest in as much as I can use their material to illustrate certain points that I make in other correspondents regarding the, unpleasant, nasty, sectarian disrespectful aspects of Northern Society.

    I have in fact got more of this sort of tripe from Comrade Stalin a supporter of a supposed enlightened progressive political party, The Alliance party than I have from say the UUP party members who are supposed to be next to the TUC on the intolerance scale. I am not particularly concerned about that.

    What is of concern to me however is there are other actual Alliance Party members posting here in slugger, yet not one Alliance Party member to my knowledge, has once challenged any disrespect or worse shown on slugger by CS a mere supporter, irrespective of the perceptions that tolerance of these things adversely project about the Alliance Party. Do not any senior Alliance figure read slugger?

    This indicates that at best they a) do not care or b) at worst, that behind all the fine sounding rhetoric and professed special intercultural respect, the party is just as most Nationalists and Republicans maintain, just another Party of the Unionist generic family that is comfortable to the point of cosines with disrespecting a political opponent.

    If I consider a poster worth corresponding with, I will arranged for a ‘one to one’ off site exchange, but otherwise the ‘clever Charlies’ and smart ass ( at least in their own estimation ) do not interest me for engagement, save to harness for my purpose.

    Your 8 : 41 post, my 4 : 00 PM post and your 5:34 PM reply have now been abstracted, contextualized and filed with a live link to be used by me to illustrate certain behavior.

    Still think that your ‘witty’ one liner to a serious reply was a good idea ?

    Just like the ‘monkey noise merchants’ when they hear Gaelic spoken in the Assembly, you are quite welcome to your initial laugh but as usual I will have the last one !

  • Reader

    Munsterview: yet not one Alliance Party member to my knowledge, has once challenged any disrespect or worse shown on slugger by CS a mere supporter, irrespective of the perceptions that tolerance of these things adversely project about the Alliance Party. Do not any senior Alliance figure read slugger?
    The Alliance Army Council is in flux at the moment. Once a couple of bodies turn up, murdered with their own golf clubs, then party discipline will be back to normal. Then CS will either start moaning about his kneecaps, or he’ll get promotion to an ASU or Cumann. Wait and see.

  • Comrade Stalin

    The Alliance Army Council is in flux at the moment.

    The Alliance Party paramilitary wing was disbanded some years ago. Of course, not everyone was happy about that idea, so the Continuity Alliance Council (“cac”) have pledged to carry on the fight. The golf clubs are being sharpened as we speak. Someone mentioned snooker cues, which most Alliance traditionalists would, of course, regard as ghastly and uncouth. The struggle is clearly moving to a new phase.

    More seriously, elected representatives and party leaders still read Slugger. David Ford used to contribute now and again, and a few others too. A lot of them don’t really have the time, especially given, I’m sorry to say, that the standard in debate really has fallen over the years. Nobody has time to read those long rambling monologues, not even me, and I’m on a week off.

  • Comrade Stalin

    MV, I suggest you spend another three hours typing out a long post on how you drew up the plans for Bloody Friday with Joe Cahill over a pint in McEnaney’s, and about the day you personally went into Long Kesh and tried to persuade Bobby Sands to come off the hunger strike, before getting on the phone with Gerry Adams and recommending that he stand a candidate in the Fermanagh South Tyrone bye-election.

    The history books are crying out for more.

  • Seimi

    ‘Someone mentioned snooker cues, which most Alliance traditionalists would, of course, regard as ghastly and uncouth.’

    They’re fine if referred to as ‘Billiards Cues.’

    Apparently the Alliance Cumann na mBan scored a blow recently, when they subjected an enemy to 2 hours of ‘pointedly not being spoken to’ at a tea and cake event.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Seimi, I had no idea you were a member.

    The mBan are, of course, nothing compared to the brutal tactics of the Phelim O’Neill cumann operating out of Craigantlet, where touts are subjected to being slow-blinked by Naomi Long.

  • Seimi

    CS, I am a long-standing member*, though only because I had the temerity to refuse a Tunnock’s Teacake at one of Stephen Farry’s little teas, and have been refused a chair ever since…

    *Please insert ‘fnaar fnaar’ or ‘Ooh matron!’ jokes here.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Tunnock’s teacake, eh ? Count yourself lucky it wasn’t a Mr Kipling fondant fancy.

  • Seimi

    Apparently the worst that can happen to you is a torture similar to Waterboarding. It’s called ‘DavidFording’, where you are tied to a chair and forced to watch endless speeches by the leader of the party…

  • Reader

    Comrade Stalin: Count yourself lucky it wasn’t a Mr Kipling fondant fancy.
    This is shocking disrespect and indiscipline from both of you. The only thing preventing the two you from being found cold-shouldered and stigmatised on a border road is because the Alliance security branch hasn’t reached a consensus as to which border to use.

  • Munsterview

    CS :…” The history books are crying out for more….”

    Currently I have three University History feelers to go on record for some of the matters and issues covered in my posts, the type of factual information that you seem to take a malicious delight in attempting to ridicule and deride here on slugger. I had a number of meetings with the head of one history Dep. and agreed parameters of disclosure until the ‘Boston Situation’ blew up and I put co-operation on hold indefinitely. Others of my ethos in a similar situation did likewise !

    Of course in the ongoing ‘Hearts and Minds’ spooks ‘behind-the-scenes-war’ to control the narrative of the Northern Ireland Insurgency and ensure that the dominant and most prolific accounts on record are those of The British Establishment approved sources, The British Armed Forces and sources sympathetic to both, this is what the ‘Boston Intervention’ was designed to do…. stymie an alternative narrative emerging that can challenge their ‘sexed up’ ( remember where that term came from) propaganda record.

    You CS have shamelessly and transparently bought in this scenario and contribute regularly to reinforcing the British Establishments biased record of the Insurgency !

    CS : “…More seriously, elected representatives and party leaders still read Slugger. David Ford used to contribute now and again, and a few others too….”

    Comrade Stalin : this without qualification is one of the most significant admissions that you have posted in Slugger during my two years posting or my other years reading prior to that !

    I can well appreciate that an Assembly Member, Minister and Party Leader do not have time to read all their own internal Party documentation, much less wade through one of my lengthy contributions. That is totally acceptable and understandable.

    However just as ‘Insider Republicans’ Cultural and Artistic friends and associates through out these Islands and elsewhere know who I am, I would expect that given your frequent references to Alliance, that David Ford and the other reading Leaders would have taken the trouble to find out who you were if they did not already know.

    Whatever of my longer than average and sometimes lengthy posts done primarily for the reasons as set out in ‘…16 September 2011 at 4:34 am…’ above, your posts replies to me are usually as succinct as they are disrespectfully malodorous.

    In addition, since, unlike the skilled and polished metaphorical polemics of Turgon who favors the ‘sly slip of the stiletto rather than the crude swing of the battle ax’, your attempted denigrator posts usually display all the subtly of mating elephants, David Ford and those other Alliance Leaders would need to be of fairly limited mental capacity indeed to miss your ‘contributions’

    You have done Catholics, Nationalists and Republicans some service with this significant post Comrade Stalin !

    Now that you have put on record and verified that David Ford and the Alliance Leadership are aware of your insulting and intended denigrating posts and yet tolerate, if not accept your disrespectful maltreatment of political opponents, you have sadly, but not surprisingly, verified what many, many, Republicans, Nationalists and Catholics feel, that the core values of Alliance are still rooted in Unionist intolerant ethos to Irish Nationalism, Republicanism and Catholicism with all that implies.

    I do not need to read any more on this from you Comrade Stalin : there is an old Munster saying “You do not send a boy on a man’s job” !

    This a grave matter that now requires a direct response from a Senior Source in a Leadership position that can speak for The Leadership and Alliance Party to explain the Republican, Nationalist and Catholic readers as to why your attitude is not acceptable to Party principles, that is of course if it is not.

    I will also refer this thread and it’s contents directly to the Sinn Fein sectarian in Stormount and have the appropriate Sinn Fein Assembly member dealing with such issues, seek a formal explanation from The Alliance Party.

    Meanwhile of course the non response to, or ignoring of this post and the matters raised by Alliance Party members or Leaders will by silence, express far more eloquently the real ethos of the party than any words of mine can. Any attempted discuplate, circumambulation by you may now be transparently seen for what it is!

  • between the bridges

    Mv I take it all back, forget about the CIA, MOSSAD, CSICE, MI5/6, MFI and IKEA. if only you had said you where on the Alliance mob’s hit list I would have believed every word…run Forrest run.

  • Munsterview

    between : not doing the running but making the running on this one. Big difference !

  • Munsterview

    between : posted one hour ago and not a single Alliance Party member response !

    As I posted “….will by silence, express far more eloquently the real ethos of the party than any words of mine can…..”

  • between the bridges

    i reckon they called a special meeting and are debating the crisis as we speak…keep chipping away and the evil empire will fall…

  • Comrade Stalin

    MV, you’re now officially a marked man. You’ll know if you get an empty cupcake case through the post.

  • Reader

    Munsterview: You have done Catholics, Nationalists and Republicans some service with this significant post Comrade Stalin !
    Judging by his previous posts, I think CS is most or all of the above and an Alliance Supporter. Just as I am none of the above and an occasional Alliance voter. That’s sort of what ‘cross-community’ is all about.
    Occasionally putting the metaphorical boot into the Shinners, DUPs and Tuvvies is one of the compensations for never getting to riot.

  • Munsterview

    Reader: ever heard of a Castle Catholic or Queens Irish.

    Lots of Catholic, Nationalist, Republicans down here too of his kind, did no trouble them too much when we were locked up and banned.

  • Reader

    Munsterview: ever heard of a Castle Catholic or Queens Irish.
    Yep, those are terms used by just the same sort of people who would use the term ‘Lundy’. So; do you think that way?

  • babyface finlayson

    Munsterview (ding ding)
    This is a grave matter? Really?
    Is it not possible that Alliance Party representatives have other things to do apart from police every comment on every blog in case of dangerous radicals like Comrade Stalin giving them a bad name?
    When was the last time a bona fide representative of Sinn Fein or the DUP came on here to denounce comments made by their supporters?

  • Munsterview

    babyface : “…This is a grave matter? Really?…”

    Yes indeed it is !

    As to myself personally I could not give the proverbial ‘fiddlers f***’ what CS thinks and my only problem in this area is that on the rare occasion like tonight when I put a toe over the line and give Comrade Stalin a finger poke in the ribs in exchange for a day being kicked in the shins by him, I am awarded a yellow card while CS of course is ring fenced to continue his insults playing the man rather than playing the ball, as per usual practice with nere a card in sight !

    However no problem what so ever with this specific card given the night that is in it and how I earned it, I will wear it as proud as I would an Easter Lily!

    However back to the germane : The Alliance Party more than any other in this Island have made a song and a dance about ‘Respect’ etc. By CS’s own admission Slugger is read by that nice man David and other Party Leaders who apparently see absolutely nothing wrong in a self proclaimed supporter churning out a constant stream of insult, sneer and invective and ridicule.

    This is exactly the same treatment that was dished out to the early Sinn Fein elected representatives from the UUP and DUP while Alliance tut, tutted, sadly shook it’s head and waged an admonishing finger.

    Here we have a self acknowledged Alliance supporter indulging exactly the same mean spirited, narrow minded activity and it seems that it is of no concern to the rank and file of The Alliance Party or indeed to its leadership.

    Even back in the politically incorrect seventies, when feelings were running high after internment, I had to deal with public intemperate sloganeering using insulting terms or nomenclature in my Sinn Fein capacity as it reflected badly on the Organization.

    I am somewhat bemused to find a full forty years later in what are supposed to be politically correct times, that somebody associated with The Alliance Party is able to motor on here night after night spreading insult and ridicule with all the systematic deliberation of a Munster farmer spraying a tanker of pig slurry around his lands and it is of no concern to either the Alliance membership or Leadership ?

    Are these not the Party and very people that set the ‘Respect Bar’ so high for the rest of Northern Ireland? I am not the one that placed them on a pedestal, they climbed up there all by themselves and I am now merely holding their lofty vision and loudly claimed principles to account.

    However I am not holding my breath on that one, the difference between DUP Unionist political throwbacks making monkey noises whenever a Sinn Fein Member use a few words of Irish in the Assembly and a supposedly house trained supporter of Alliance (small u) Unionist can be very slight indeed when it comes to insulting opponents!

  • Reader

    Munsterview: Are these not the Party and very people that set the ‘Respect Bar’ so high for the rest of Northern Ireland? I am not the one that placed them on a pedestal, they climbed up there all by themselves and I am now merely holding their lofty vision and loudly claimed principles to account.
    However much respect may be appropriate in principle for the Irish language or the aspiration to a United Ireland (and Alliance can do that perfectly well), there is nothing to say that Shinners or Shinner hacks are entitled to any share of that respect, especially since they have done so much to set back those causes and damage everyone’s material interests too.

  • Comrade Stalin

    MV,

    Unlike you I have actually grown up dealing with sectarian abuse. I’ve been threatened by loyalists, my parents, like most people during the 1970s and (less so) 1980s, had one or two near misses with death at the hands of the murder squads. I know people who have had it a lot worse.

    Secondly, my first contribution to this thread was to point out that I remember writing similar graffiti back when I was in school and too stupid to know any better. The point was clearly too subtle for some; I had hoped that it would not be necessary to make the point that a lot of kids write this kind of stuff because they see older kids doing it, because of peer pressure etc, and lastly because their parents – and society at large – are failing to educate our young people on why this is wrong. I am not trying to suggest there are no problems, that is untrue. What I do object to is this ridiculous, infantile – and highly bigoted – characterization you have about how this graffiti is an outworking of a conspiracy by the state and an entire section of the population to oppress another section. It is ridiculous.

    I have told you, I don’t know how many times, that I am not a spokesperson for Alliance. I spend time defending what the party does, because their sense of pragmatism and (mostly) realism appeals to me, but I can assure you that I have better things to do (most of the time) than sitting here on the edge of my keyboard waiting to reply to folks here. As I have said, if you want to know what Alliance thinks, phone up the HQ and ask them, the number is on the homepage. They’ll put you through to someone who will answer your questions (provided they have time).

    As for respect, that’s something that has to be earned. If you must know, I find your long-winded contributions barely tolerable, but your constant name-dropping is the worst; you clearly have no idea how ridiculous it sounds going around the place talking about your mate Joe Cahill. I’ve never met a republican who takes anything but a very dim view of these Walter Mitty people – you are not the first – who go around shooting their mouth off about the big shots they’ve hung out with. Apart from being contemptible and tasteless, I’d imagine most of them cut their teeth during a time when such loose talk might have caused real problems – which is why I doubt the veracity of any of the tall tales you share with us here.

    So I hope you will appreciate that I’m not really minded to take armchair lectures from you on sectarianism and how pious I should be about it. Calling me a castle Catholic or whatever is just symptomatic of your over-the-top victimized hand-wringing attitude. I’m not interested in such sectarian characterizations, nor am I interested in ideological nationalism or republicanism, as should be painfully obvious by now. Finally, if you have ever spent any time here you should know that a sense of humour is a fundamental prerequisite. If we all dealt with our problems here with the kind of funereal seriousness that you think is required, we’d have all been shipped off to the funny farm long ago.

  • Munsterview

    CS : “…. I’ve never met a republican who takes anything but a very dim view of these Walter Mitty people – you are not the first – who go around shooting their mouth off about the big shots they’ve hung out with. Apart from being contemptible and tasteless, I’d imagine most of them cut their teeth during a time when such loose talk might have caused real problems – which is why I doubt the veracity of any of the tall tales you share with us here…..”

    CS typical fare when responding to anything from me : your replies are just not a matter of response, in every post you seem to take it as your duty to ridicule, scorn, question and undermine my own personal credibility as a poster, rather than take issue with the post.

    The above abstract is not just an annoyed response, it is carefully designed along the lines of the ” when did you stop beating your wife school” of attempted elicited response. You as an experienced polemic know like the clever charlie behind the Masky pseudo poster that if such things are left unanswered, on accumulation they undermine credibility.

    This seems to be your primary purpose : deal with the credibility of the message by undermining the credibility of the messenger.

    As to Joe Cahill : there were few enough of us in the South to begin with and in the early days even fewer young people still who left the Sticks and crossed over from the very start. Joe and his driver stayed with me when in my area, I was his guide through out the region, very deliberately as part of the learning process I had the privilege of being there when for example we went to Cork City and he met with Thomas Og McCurtin and the rest of the 40’s Old Guard.

    In that situation I not alone see history being made, I am now in the situation and at the age where am that bloody History ! I came on this site for a very specific purpose: I am easily identifiable to Northern Comrades and indeed those elsewhere on this Island who read slugger and can join up the dots. I have made no secret of my support for Sinn Fein here or of my lack of support for the continuing armed campaign at this point in the ongoing political development.

    You as a person reasonably ‘keyed in’ to the political grapevine know how sharply the lines are drawn between various fractions and how disputative they are with each other, yet not one who can join up the dots have taken serious polemic issue with anything that I have posted here or attempted to ‘blow my cover’ despite my open support for Sinn Fein which most have serious issues with, speaks for itself !

    I do not need to speak to or for Republicans : they can do that for themselves and explain their various perspectives. What I can do is educate the younger ones in their recent history and also share Republican ethos and traditions with a wider audience to give them some appreciations of what is involved outside of their own cultural boxes. That however seems to be like a red rag to bull as far as you are concerned for reasons best known to yourself.

    On one of my last appearances in the High Court in 2011, I acted in person and had a long contention with the judge on the matter concerned as to whether he could deal with the matters in hand or they should be a Supreme Court matter.

    When the Judge gave his ruling, he also said that he was rising for a few minutes, all stood up. In that situation while the Court has formally risen, all the decorum of the Court is never the less maintained until the Judge has left the chamber. He walked to the end of the Bench, faced the Body of the court and me and said ” X would you ever go away and write that bloody book you said you were going to do, none of us are getting any younger you know ! ”

    And then I come on here and take this constant and unremitting flow of verbal diarrhea from you from you because you have a bee in your bonnet about something ? I do not mind some of the other posters here, they do not know any better but you and the Political Party that you support are supposed to know better.

    And you probably do, it is just that for reasons best known to yourself like a dog with a lamp pose, you cannot pass up a post of mine without cocking your leg and pissing on it!

  • Munsterview

    Mv : “….On one of my last appearances in the High Court in 2011,…”

    Should have been 2009 in case there is some other pedandic nit picker out there !

  • lamhdearg

    Some people who would be of the type that go for conspiracy theories (guilty as charged) would believe that given the Brits are up to their necks in dirty tricks, anyone who has had a long and illustrious career in going against there wishes, would have met a sticky end.

  • andnowwhat

    Dr. David Kelly?

  • lamhdearg

    ?

  • Reader

    andnowwhat: Dr. David Kelly?
    The problem is that he was about 500 places down the list of inconveniences, and most of the first 499 are still alive.