POTD – Sandy Row

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  • michael-mcivor

    Man behind the wall-

  • Drumlins Rock

    is the posture of the gunman not a little disconcerting 🙁

  • Boys and toys ?

  • Drumlins Rock

    It possibly says more that any indepth political analysis of paramilitarism ever would.

  • ranger1640

    My gawd MP, you really go that extra mile to ensure you portray the Unionist/Loyalist communities as negatively as possible.

    MP, I forgot the buses and trains are not running to republican parts of Lurgan and Craigavon, and that’s why you have not gone there to take photos. Anyhow it’s only republicans destroying their own community and why would we want to tell that story in photos.

    No doubt your shutter finger MP, will be in overdrive in the next few days capturing as many negative aspects of Unionist/Loyalist culture and communities as possible.

  • DR….Now you see what i’m up to 🙂
    This partially demolished wall and the mural has been like this for 10 years….i should dig out an old photo i have of it as the bonfire site has changed since then(obviously)

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    Again with the whine, whine, whine ? Get a camera and then you can knock yourself out providing alternative images which reveal the ‘actual’ human condition of all corners of unionist society as opposed to the ‘unfair’ and/or ‘false reality’ you appear to be suggesting that Mooch is delivering. Some scenic golf course pictures might sate your appetite for that perhaps, endearing impressions of PUL sandy beaches, rivers and hillocks too – that might tell the truth as you see it. So share it. You could also indulge yourself in revealing what you feel is most wrong/objectionable/visually revolting within the non-unionist-loyalist ‘community’ and share these images with us. Again, a somewhat contrary take on that cobwebbed corner of the shed might be interesting.

    I would be highly surprised if either Mick or Mooch would have any objection of any type to publishing anything you have which is worthy of sharing and which is likely to give rise to any meaningful exchange in terms of the truths – or otherwise – revealed in the pictures.

    The only criteria which matters to me is whether the pix are engaging and interesting or not. At the moment you appear to me to be saying that the camera – or perhaps the cameraman – are in some sense lying and that it is the truth which is being airbrushed out of them. A pictorial response to that proposition from you would be very fitting and warmly welcomed. It would be by me, at any rate.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Ranger, Mooch is going to behave himself and be nice and posative for the next few days, actually I don’t see this pic as negative, the old mural (30 yrs old maybe?) is 2/3 gone, the area is neglected, yet despite this there is life going on in the background, you can see the organisation and community involved in building the bonfire, not PC of course but very real and genuine.

  • michael-mcivor

    Ranger 1640 says that only Republicans are destroying their own community-

    some still in bad mood because the u.v.f was kicked out of the short strand-

  • SK

    “No doubt your shutter finger MP, will be in overdrive in the next few days capturing as many negative aspects of Unionist/Loyalist culture and communities as possible.”

    _

    No doubt he’ll be spoiled for choice.

  • Nunoftheabove

    SK

    Perhaps not; I’d like to see ranger1640 and Mooch competing a little for the more telling images though.

    michael-mcivor

    Bigness and cleverness – just two of the qualities which that contribution lacks. There’re others too of course.

  • michael-mcivor

    Nunoftheabove- it was cleaver and big of you to receive a yellow card for your troubles-

  • wee buns

    Gunman kind looks like Pac-man.

  • General request to Slugger management…….

    Can i please set myself up as a legit photographer (my photos do regularly appear in one ‘national’ NI paper) and submit content to balance out mr moochin?? (rhetorical question)

    Last 20 moochin submissions- zero content related to Irish Republicanism. Four on Loyalist mural content alone!! Northern Irelands problems dont centre on Loyalist murals you know- their direct relevance to modern AND past Northern Ireland is indirect and miniscule!!

    This incidently is also ignoring that a vast number of brand new Republican paramilitary murals have been erected across Belfast and Northern Ireland over the last 6 months- without comment!!!!!! And i mean VAST number!!! Is Moochin scared to go into Republicn areas or something???

    C’mon Slugger. Balance??? This is getting silly and it opens itself to questions of partiality.

  • ranger1640

    None, SK, Michael and Drum, firstly I would like to thank you for your comments.

    However in my opinion MP, only seems to post negative photos form the Unionist/Loyalist side of the community.

    Imbalance (I won’t use the word bias) I can deal with but at lest lets make it clear that it exists. He has covered the UVF debacle at short strand comprehensively as can be seen below. However there dose seem to be a bit of an imbalance in his posts. There are no photos taken from the nationalist/republican short strand aspect. Highlighting the negativity as it affects their community. Now that it has been confirmed that they have a dissident IRA element?

    Currently the place in the news is Lurgan and Craigavon, with dissident IRA activity. Why no photos from MP showing the brunt out cars, vans and buses and the debris from nationalist/republican violence in that part of the country??? Can it be that MP photo negativity can only be brought here when its from the Unionist/Loyalist community.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/28/potd-all-quiet-on-the-eastern-front/
    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/22/layout-of-bryson-street-interface/
    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/22/potd-no-more/
    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/17/potd-a-backward-step/
    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/16/potd-on-parade/

    As I said in this post http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/07/01/potd-balls/

    “Not much difference between that and the new republican mural being painted at the junction of Northumberland Street, Falls Road”!

    And “I didn’t think I was indulging in whataboutery, it is how you interpreted the post. I was bringing to the forum the similarities between the murals. Both murals depict terrorists in one form or another. How the groups portray the scenes may differ but in essence it is terrorist graffiti.

    My personal option is that all of this type of ghastly offensive graffiti should be removed”!

  • PaulT

    As the Doc and Robinson would say ‘there’s never a photographer around when you demand one and then 3 turn up together’

    Has SLugger ever had a photo competition, what are you the Taliban?

  • Nunoftheabove

    michael-mcivor

    Mellow yellow schmellow me, aye. Fairly dues. It’s worth testing the free expression threshold on here from time and one is thus accordingly assured that, if anything, it’s lower than it was the last time I got my name taken. Unsurprisingly unsurprising. Still, at least I got a rattle at tearing my opponent’s ligament last time out. This time though, sheeesh…..

    Still, it’s their party and they can assume you’re crying if they jolly well want to.

    Refs, eh ?

  • SK

    “C’mon Slugger. Balance??? This is getting silly and it opens itself to questions of partiality.”

    _

    Quincey,

    Since when is impartiality a pre-requsitie for making contributions to Slugger?

    Moochin Photoman’s contributions come might come in a different medium, but why does that obligate him to be any more impartial than the likes of a Turgon or a Chris Donnelly?

    If you’re really feeling so downtrodden, why not get yourself an SLR (the camera, not the rifle) and take a wander around a Republican area?

  • Well at least this picture doesn’t show any tires being stacked for the bonfire, unlike some bonfires in E. Belfast.

    After Councillor Martin Gregg went up to some bonfire builders and asked them why they were still using tires, they threatened to destroy his car, then the UVF put leaflets around people’s houses claiming he had threatened them.

    Martin is as pleased as punch that the UVF are doing such great publicity for him.

  • amateuranthropology

    Interesting that Quincey has seen a “vast number” of new “paramilitary murals” painted by republicans in the last 6 months. Perhaps Quincey could give an indication of the location and pictoral themes of these murals that he has spotted?

  • ulsterobserver

    How can the rest of us get to post pictures on Slugger ? Be nice to see a balance of pictures uploaded by MP !

  • SK where MP differs from other contributors is that he is the SOLE regular PHOTO contributor. Its not rocket science. Your acknowledging that yourself.

    Ive no problem with imbalance- as a Loyalist im used to it- but some even sugggest MP has no agenda at play. Simply silly given the reoccuring subject matter.

    I can take all the pictures i want till im blue in the face- i dont have the special position that MP does. Fair play to him. He has an agenda and hes going to use his position to his advantage to promote it.

    Bit of honesty would be nice.

  • SK

    If you’re really feeling so downtrodden, why not get yourself an SLR (the camera, not the rifle) and take a wander around a Republican area

    Probably for the same reason why MP seems to require a personal invitation from Niall before taking approved photographs in the Short Strand.

    I wouldn’t imagine a Quincey, Ranger1912 or even an oneill with a cameras in Republican area would be greeted with open arms (sans un brick)…what do you reckon?

  • andnowwhat

    O’neill, there’s endless amounts of people dandering up and down the Falls with cameras taking photos of murals etc. I think they’re called tourists.

  • I think they’re called tourists

    Generally they probably look like tourists and more importantly speak like them too…I guess?

    Dunno, but, yep, perhaps the Falls does indeed get Unionist *tourists* but I’ll wager they’re very quiet and quick ones.

  • between the bridges

    regardless of the subtext some perceive in of some of MP photos, perhaps a selection of approved photographers may give some balance to the visual aspect . if only for the simple reason that we don’t all live in belshaft.

  • between the bridges, thats all im suggesting. There just seems a little too much subtext on a little too many occasions.

  • ranger1640

    By the reply’s to MP’s photos, there seems to be a general consensus, that MP’s photo postings are imbalanced. Would it be correct to say that the perceived nationalist/republican posters here are in favour of MP’s photos, and the perceived Unionist/Loyalist posters are generally against.

    I know this is not very scientific however, would it be fair to reason that by using the only means here to judge these things, the reply’s that MP’s photo posts generate. It would be fair to say, that with the partisanship that MP’s photo posts generate. The only inference one can conclude from MP’s photo posts, is that they are indeed imbalanced (again I won’t use the bias word).

    If MP has an agenda like others on here, that’s fine. However if he has I think we should be told. After all MP is the only poster here who exclusively posts photos.

  • More of the same imbalance from MP

    A COLD HOUSE FOR UNIONISTS

    Attack after attack on the unionists culture – no pictures of republicans murals – no pictures of the aftermath republican riots ?

    Just the constant bias

  • grandimarkey

    *Wank alert* I am a postgraduate Arts Student *Wank Alert*

    And as such I define art as something that makes me think critically about the subject or life in general.

    By that definition (albeit my own) I enjoy Moochman’s photography and I hope he keeps posting.

  • ranger1640

    Grand, what does this latest post say then??

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    Try engaging your own critical faculties; strangely, I don’t think we’ve actually heard what the pic makes you feel or think yet. Not really.

  • wee buns

    The pics are honest and simply show the environment.
    If the comments are perceived as being hostile then why not address those specific comments?
    I like the pics not having lived in B’fast since the Short Strand was red brick Victorian terrace; get totally confused on returning. MPs photos give a glimpse of today’s city.
    That’s what a photo is, a glimpse of a moment in time, not the whole story. Think most people unnerstand that.

    I’m with grandimarkey (if slightly less wankerly as self taught artist :D) a picture worth it’s salt provokes thought.

  • grandimarkey

    “Grand, what does this latest post say then??”

    Whether it ‘says’ anything or not is up to the individual.

    What do you get from it?

  • grandimarkey

    Agreed wee buns.

    The fact there are this many comments shows it was worth posting.

  • Reader

    grandimarkey: And as such I define art as something that makes me think critically about the subject or life in general.
    Just ‘think’? How about ‘feel’?

  • RepublicanStones

    Interesting pic. The beauty of the visual art form, and in particular, photography, is I don’t have to agree with what Mooch thought he was seeing at the time he snapped it. What i get from this image is what i would title ‘Mis-direction of creativity’.

  • grandimarkey

    Reader:
    Just ‘think’? How about ‘feel’?

    Feeling is a bonus.

  • ranger1640

    Nun, have you not been reading my posts here today?

    What do I think? Just for you nun, I think the post (like many others form this contributor) is a contrived effort to portray one side of the community in a negative aspect.

    The narrative of the photo is nothing new. In fact it implies to me that the photographer is lazy, and has given us another stereotypical representation of the Unionist/Loyalist community. Hardly groundbreaking, nor a prize winning narrative or composition.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but you have been able to buy postcards with this type of narrative on for some years now. This just reinforces the lazy thought process of the photographer.

    But that’s only my view.

    What does it say to you Nun?

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    That’s not what I asked you; I asked you what the picture itself makes you think/feel – not what you’re projecting onto its taking and projecting onto the photographer and projecting onto whover pressed the ‘accept’ button to put it on the site and why you feel they may have done so.

  • wee buns

    What struck me first were the purple flowered (loosestrife possibly) bedecking the foot of the mural, like nature is reclaiming it. His pictures often involve these juxtapositions which are poignant.
    Reader is right about the provocation of emotion. It is the ultimate goal of every artist be they musician or playwright. We tend to sanitize that into ‘thought provoking’…especially ahem…in male company, as they dost be famous for and do respond better to ‘thinking.’

  • ranger1640

    Just for you again nun:

    The narrative of the photo is nothing new.

    This means to me that the photo has nothing new to say and suggests a forced composition!!!

    It implies to me that the photographer is lazy, and has given us another stereotypical representation of the Unionist/Loyalist community.

    Portraying stereotypes and as this photo is like many thousands before it. It suggests a lack of imagination on behalf of the photographer. With its obvious political and paramilitary overtones it is designed to portray a negative aspect to part of our community.

    Hardly groundbreaking, nor a prize winning narrative or composition.

    I think that speaks for it’s self!!!

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    Still haven’t answered the question. It’s all about what you believe it’s intended to be saying to others rather than what it says to you.

  • ranger1640

    Nun, you seem to be all over the place with this.

    You asked me. “That’s not what I asked you; I asked you what the picture itself makes you think/feel – not what you’re projecting onto its taking and projecting onto the photographer and projecting onto whover pressed the ‘accept’ button to put it on the site and why you feel they may have done so”!

    When I give you what I think/feel. You then go on to say I still haven’t answered the question? You then change the emphasis and the question??? By saying. “Still haven’t answered the question. It’s all about what you believe it’s intended to be saying to others rather than what it says to you”!

    How do I know what it says to others???

    I can only give you my opinion and that is obviously not what you want.

    Why don’t give us your opinion on the photo.

  • ranger1640

    That last sentence should read

    Why don’t you give us your opinion on the photo.

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    You’re the one that has the beef with the photo and yet are noticeably unwilling to comment on the image itself. You’re commenting pretty much on everything BUT what the pic itself – I repeat, itself – actually says to you. You find something objectionable about it – or perhaps it’s just about what you’re projecting onto the photographer, as I say – and won’t say what specifically. Something about it angers you and I’m curious about specifically what that might be. Struggling to put it in English much plainer than that I’m afraid.

    You bought that camera yet ?

  • ranger1640

    You seem to be like a wee dog with a bone, nun.

    Are you not reading my posts nun??? You have asked me something different in each of your replies, while I have been consistent in my view of the photo.

    I have given you several posts on the image, and on what I thought and feet about it. I have said all I have to say on the photo.

    If you want me to tell you what others think of the photo. At the first opportunity I will book myself onto the omniscience course at Queens.

  • Nunoftheabove

    ranger1640

    Tried to get you to answer a simple reasonable question, simply and reasonaly phrased, can’t force you to and wouldn’t anyway. It’s an answer of sorts, the absence of an answer.

    Enjoy your course (majoring in solipsism by any chance ?) and happy snapping.

    Woof woof 🙂

  • Comrade Stalin

    ranger:

    It implies to me that the photographer is lazy, and has given us another stereotypical representation of the Unionist/Loyalist community.

    What exactly is being done by politicians and community representatives to address that stereotype ? Nothing.

    Anyway, I don’t think it’s a stereotype at all. For the most part the 11th night bonfire business is a dirty, polluting, anti-social and mostly illegal activity which contributes absolutely nothing positive to the communities within which it takes place. I see the same thing every year, and in every neighbourhood where I see these bonfires go up – kids playing in piles of wood, discarded furniture and rubbish. It’s like something in Calcutta.

  • Mark

    Its a great photo for a whole host of reasons . One side of the demolished wall which managed to some how keep the gunman intact represents the past , the other side has kids playing which represents the future .

    Sandy Row is held with great affection amongst ordinary decent protestants and there may be a little shame or embarrassment when looking at the photo.

    Still there seems to be loads of bombfire material behind the wall , those pallets and flags are great for a good fire.

  • There is, indeed, a fair bit of projection; possibly some embarrassment that the scenes exist. If they weren’t there MP would not be able to record them. They are an historical legacy and i hope MP continues with his recordings.

  • I’m a Unionist and every time I walk up Sandy Row that particular part – with the demolished mural – always strikes a cord. It’s like the metaphorical wall that paramilitaries built around their communities separating the people from the rest of planet earth has been broken down.

    MP’s photo says to me that though the walls of the past have mostly come down the culture and tradition of the people continues.

    Though I’m probably reading to much into it – but I certainly don’t view it as a negative or sectarian photograph.

  • Nunoftheabove

    youngpolitico

    The separation notion struck me also. Something about it speaks not just to isolation but to a sense of self-imprisonment – of the mind, as much as of space – the claustrophobia, the control, the limitations within as well as the limitations of the immediate environment. One hopes that the obvious decay is indicative of the decay of exactly that sense. The flags, for me, however suggest that for as long as they remain important the broken wall can always be rebuilt, the figure on the wall can once again return to life. The centrality of the flags however is not of course unrelated to the underlying decay in the image as a whole.

    Be interesting to replicate the picture with the same frame, angle and perspective, say, five or ten years from now.

  • babyface finlayson

    Wee Buns
    I believe that plant is Rosebay Willowherb. Also known as Fireweed because of its habit of springing up in burnt landscapes. Perhaps this is the symbolism MP is aiming at. The leaves are said to be rather bitter.

  • westcoast

    The flag on the right makes me think of Rory McIlroy.

  • ranger1640
  • between the bridges

    nun…is that what the photo’s actually says to you? or are you projecting views to accommodate the subtext of what you think you want to see?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sandy Row is held with great affection amongst ordinary decent protestants and there may be a little shame or embarrassment when looking at the photo.

    I’d say most people who live there are ordinary and decent. I don’t feel unsafe walking around there, there are very few gangs of kids roaming around intimidating people in the way you might find elsewhere. And Truffles is the best bakery anywhere in Belfast. Show up there any morning and get yourself a cream bun. And the sausage rolls are top notch.

    Inner city communities like this need political leaders who will explain that this bonfire business damages the community and needs to be better regulated and controlled.

  • Nunoftheabove

    BTB

    The former. It saddens me.

  • galloglaigh

    Oops, my comment is still awaiting approval. If you know the right sites to use, you can post your own photos, but I don’t think I’m allowed to tell you all what sites to use.

  • between the bridges

    nun… its says to me ‘it looks like rain’

  • Nunoftheabove

    BTB

    Glad it sings so harmoniously to you, who could possibly have guessed that you were quite so pronouncedly Jungian.

  • wee buns

    babyface finlayson
    thanks for the correct plant name!

  • babyface finlayson

    Wee Buns
    You’re welcome. I rarely know anything. If it had only been in east belfast… I was working on a poor pun about botany on the mount

  • tuatha

    Babyface & Weebuns – the Rosebay Willowherb/Fireweed used to grace the old bombsites in London for decades though it has begun to die out now, apparently it needs disturbed ground to flourish. I had some grow profusely for several years on an area mechanically dug in 2004, though sparse now, a glorious sight.

  • between the bridges

    Nun…not really, philosophy is only as good as the philosopher, given that the dominate part of the pictorial is the sky and as us fermanagh men have some experience of liquid precipitation, one does not need to be james hillman to hold such views….

  • Nunoftheabove

    beeteebee

    Suggest that one needs to get beyond the confines of dreary steeples a little more often kid; after all, as your boy Hillman said, “you don’t know what you’re going to get into when you follow your bliss”.
    .

  • wee buns

    babyface and tuatha

    A similar looking purple plant rampant along the west coast on wasteland is valerian, but ‘disturbed ground’ is a winner description for NI.
    Botany politics: a whole new field of wonder.

  • between the bridges

    nunascleverasme… i am not sure that winston ever visited so i wouldn’t set too much store in his descriptions. as for your travel guidance if i am allowed to reciprocate prehaps i can suggest where your good self can go…

  • babyface finlayson

    Bots out I say.
    Don’t know about disturbed ground, more like the waste land.

  • Nunoftheabove

    bee tee bee

    ‘Prehaps’ you can my dear, ‘prehaps’ you can. Then again….