ICLVR: “The results positively indicate that the remains are those of Mr Gerard Evans”

The BBC reports that the Independent Commission for the Location of Victims Remains [ICLVR] have confirmed that the body found after a targeted search of bogland in County Louth in October is that of Gerard Evans, who was abducted, murdered and secretly buried in 1979. 

No organisation has admitted responsibility for his murder.  But some have unreliable memories…

Louth is, of course, the constituency where the [soon-to-be] former International Representative for west Belfast is hoping to be elected.

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  • fitzjameshorse1745

    I suspect that it will have absolutely no effect on voting intentions in West Belfast or Louth

  • HeinzGuderian

    I suspect the same !!! Much like voting intentions for the Nazi Party !! 🙁

  • pippakin

    It may sway some but those who despise the murderers are unlikely to be among SF prospects.

    It would need more, a possible court date/s. I think the Brits are unlikely to oblige and that should give some pause for thought.

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    Absolutely correct — this won’t lose GA or his party even one vote. Bank robberies, execution of a mother of ten, incineration of collie club members, slaughter of random Friday shoppers and cover up of child abuse — none of these affect voting intentions — the only sure way to lose a seat in Ireland is for your wife to have an affair with a teenager and there to be a query over a £5 strip of land.

  • Rory Carr

    It would seem then, Gerry, that the ability to retain the loyalty of a faithful wife and a reputation for dealing honestly in land sales are qualities that the electorate have come to expect from their representatives.

    I do however admire the compassion that you are able to extend to dodgy cuckolds. If only the electorate had a modicum of your charity.

  • socaire

    Maybe I’m slowing up but I fail to catch the significance or the relevance of, or even the sense of referring to Gerard Adams MP as ‘International Representative for West Belfast’ by the faux-intelligentia on this site. Such cutting edge political thrust. Such rapier like wit.

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    @Rory — another way of looking at it might be — if the recent MP for East Belfast had been implicated in the murders of shoppers, hotel visitors and a mother, rather than cast as a cuckold and questionable land salesman, might he have been resoundingly returned? Or does it say something about the two electorates that he wasn’t?

  • Pete Baker

    Glad you liked it, socaire.

    I started using it during Gerry’s World Tour for Irish Unity.

    I wonder how that went…

    ANYhoo, it just seems to fit.

    And here’s an interesting quote in the circumstances

    The single most important issue facing the people of Ireland and Britain is the achievement of Irish unity and the construction of a new relationship between Ireland and Britain based on equality. Economic crises, however severe, will come and go. Governments will come and go, but for more centuries than any of us care to contemplate Britain’s involvement in Ireland has been the source of conflict; partition, discord and division; and great hurt between the people of these islands. [added emphasis]

    Now what did Gerry say about why he was disappearing over the border to stand in Louth?

    …the Sinn Féin president was keen to paint the move as his duty “in this time of crisis in our country“. Or, as Martin McGuinness would have us believe, “to play a central role in the battle for Ireland’s economic recovery”.

  • MichaelMac

    Have seen it reported that a poll was carried out and Adams is sitting on 37%, enough for SF to get 2 seats in Louth quite easily. That is even before Ahern jumped ship.

  • pippakin

    Sure if the election was held tomorrow he would romp home. SF are still celebrating their win. It is too early to celebrate The battle, sorry, Freudian slip, election, hasn’t started yet.

  • joeCanuck

    The single most important issue facing the people of Ireland and Britain is the achievement of Irish unity …

    He’s not the international representative. He must come from outer space.

  • pippakin

    joe

    Telling isn’t it. SF have neglected the south for a long time, they are now busy catching up.

  • Mark

    Pippakin – ” if the election was held tomorrow he would romp home , SF have neglected the south for a long time ” Auntie Tom me2 me2 , haha bit of crack.

  • pippakin

    Mark

    I know I messed up the comment, but it stands. If the election were tomorrow then according to the Red C poll GA would romp home.

    Regrettably for SF the election is unlikely to be before February or March. A lot can happen between now and then. A lesson for SF and you: don’t count your chickens before they are hatched!

    What is “auntie Tom, me2 me2.” Hmmm?

    I’m a socialist, to the extent that SF are socialist? I have some empathy. It is all the other things they may well be that I have no time for.

  • Mark

    Pippakin , enough empathy to give them a vote ? The ” other things they may well be ” are always going to be there real or not . You will always get threads like this. Do you really think those results were only available after the weekend . Those results were sat on by someone with a huge arse until SF won in Donegal , they have seen the size of Sinn Fein’s Mo and are running scared . The criticism in some quarters has become so bitchy it’s pathetic . Baker and his groupies will always be here but as someone in Sth Armagh once said of the british army ” sure you wouldn’t even ignore them “.

  • pippakin

    Mark

    It has been known since the body before the body was found, even I sceptical though I am of the murderers ‘feelings’ doubt he would have told the searchers “Sure we dumped a body there but its been years. Are we expected to remember the name? Could have been anyone!” No, he/they told them who and the area to search, but the checks had to be done to confirm identity.

    I’m not moved either way. My objections are to the violence of the past and to the continued support of some the, allegedly still violent republicans.

    There are outstanding allegations and a court case that may influence people. I doubt they will be sorted before the GE.

  • Mick Fealty

    Michael,

    Have you a link for that? Or even a reference? I’d be very interested.

  • Mark

    Yes Pippakin allegedly there are allegations which allegedly wont be going away anytime now or ever. that’s my point . Unproven accusations are part and parcel of any election campaign and because SF are in the ascendancy , they are the ones to get shot at so to speak . Pippakin I said to Cormac , PIRA have ended their war , what about you ? I could asked you the same question . I presume you are a christian so when are you going to try to forgive and forget. Is that not expected of a christian . you have to let the hate go Pippakin , it will eat you up . I am speaking from experience . You seem like such an old romantic free spirit on the one hand and so torn on the other.

  • pippakin

    Mark

    You presume I am a christian??? Wrong!

    I’m in favour of amnesty but not for the disappeared and not for child abuse or rape and not for the murders of P Quinn or R McCartney.

    I think SF need to rid themselves of some of their more er, parasitic supporters. In time they will have to.

    A romantic free spirit eh? Ah those were the days…

  • Mark

    pippakin – sorry if I insulted you by calling you a christan , i didn’t think you would find many rastafarian’s up your way.

  • pippakin

    Mark

    You didn’t insult me, you just couldn’t be further from the truth!

    And rastafarian is also wrong!

    I don’t want to tease you. I believe in the craft or as some would say pagan.

  • Mark

    Pippakin – Oh so you’re a devil worshipper , ah well each to their own. I know I know……..

  • pippakin

    Mark

    Oh dear. The devil is a christian invention.

    Personally I believe that the ‘devil’ is always within.

  • Mark

    Pippakin , well there a certainly a few posters on this site that could do with an excorcism . Pete belsebub baker first on the list . lol

  • joeCanuck

    Mark,
    I presume you are a christian so when are you going to try to forgive and forget

    As Turgon explained a few years back when I queried him on it, before you can forgive, the wrongdoer has to express repentance. Although not a christian myself, I fully support that.

    BTW, I reported your previous comment, man playing Pete Baker, as offensive, not because I agree with everything that he says but because it blatently was against Rule 2.

  • joeCanuck

    Pippakin,

    Pagan has some bad connotations, due to Christian propaganda. Maybe old belief, or old religion might be better. I’m with you; I ascribe to animist beliefs.

  • HeadTheBall

    “I believe in the craft…. ”

    Never took you for a Mason, Pip!

  • Munsterview

    Pip,
    …… Personally I believe that the ‘devil’ is always within……

    Not always, come on be fair to yourself, you do leave him out for a wee bit of excercise from time to time ?

  • JJ Malloy

    Pip

    Are you a pagan? What type of pagan? I haven’t talked to too many in my life. (although my grandpa called me a pagan when he found out I was cutting out of church back in the day)

  • pippakin

    I’m sorry the thread was hi jacked.

    JJ Malloy

    I believe in The Craft, witchcraft.

    joe

    Thanks. I think as people become more independent, and for us its relatively new, some are emboldened to look at the old ways.

    MV

    The danger for us all is that the ‘devil’ gets out to often…

    Mark

    Now see what you made me do!!

    Pete Baker

    Sorry!

  • Mark

    Pippikan – just dont turn me into a frog.

  • pippakin

    Mark

    Behave yourself! Some say Gerry Adams hugs trees, (one can only sympathise with the trees) if he does he did not get that from the Christian church. Anyone who reads a horoscope is stepping, however unknowingly, outside their Christian faith.

    When you celebrate Christmas and every other Christian holiday remember they were Pagan first, perhaps some of us look into the real origins. Halloween for example is not all saints day.

  • Mark

    Pippikan – Any chance you could make me one of those voodoo dolls of joe canuck and send him to me. I can organise the pins myself .

  • pippakin

    Mark

    Voodoo is not witchcraft. The craft is actually a faith in nature, the earth etc.

    You know if I as a SF supporter had wanted to steer this very interesting thread away from the subject I might take advantage of a diversion such as this.

    The subject is the confirmation of finding the remains of one of the disappeared. Lets get back to that. I feel guilty about the change of subject.

  • Rory Carr

    “Halloween for example is not all saints day.” – Pippakin (who else?)

    Indeed it is not. It is of course the evening before the Feast of All Saints, or Hallows – hence, Hallowe’en – the evening before the feast of Hallows. It is also celebrated in the Church as All Souls’ Day when prayers are offered for the souls of the faithful departed who might yet languish in Purgatory. A common superstition, prevalent in Co Down at least in my boyhood, was that if one should see a falling star (a common sight in the late October/early November skies) after praying for a deceased loved one, then that was a sign from Heaven that one’s prayers were answered and that their soul had been released from Purgatory. It is a superstition of which I remain particularly fond and no amount of hard science or sober theology will shake me from it – it is just too darned beautiful a belief to ever relinquish.

    I do hope that, given her oft profession of socialism, Pippakin is a fully paid up member of the Witches and Warlocks branch of the Trade Unions.

  • Mark

    You want be careful there Rory in case Tabitha sorry i mean Pippakin turns you into a member of the Orange Order.

  • Seimi

    ‘As Turgon explained a few years back when I queried him on it, before you can forgive, the wrongdoer has to express repentance. Although not a christian myself, I fully support that.’ – Joe canuck

    I don’t believe that, Joe. The power to forgive lies only with the person who forgives. It has nothing to do with the wrongdoer.

    Didn’t the father of the young nurse killed in the Enniskillen bomb forgive the bombers, without hearing any words of apology from them?

    How many families over the years here have forgiven the killers of their loved ones, without hearing anything back?

    To allow the wrongdoer the ‘power’ over the victim of whether or not they can forgive them doesn’t sound like a very christian thing to me…then again, forgiveness isn’t a brand owned solely by christianity. Anyone can forgive, regardless of faith or creed, or whether the wrongdoer feels remorse or not.

  • pippakin

    Rory Carr

    The subject is the confirmation of the identity of one of the disappeared and I’m feeling bad about the whataboutery, another time…

  • joeCanuck

    Seimi,

    I think you must have missed my ackowledemenr\t tha I anm not a christian.

  • joeCanuck

    Mark, You’re such a comedian; outstanding in your field, a legend in your own fantasy. PETE IS A DEVIL AND I AM A TOUT (DON’T BE SO MEALY MOUTHED) WHO SPENDS MY DAY PEEKING OUT MY CURTAINS. Strange thaty; I live in the country so I don’t have anyone to peek on, nor do i need curtians ( i put on my nightgown in the bathroom. So calm down, take a valium or whatever takes your fancy and think before you spout..

  • Mark

    St joe Canuck , i think you must of missed 95% of Seimi’s post.

  • Mark

    St Joe – you wear a nightgown ? what ever takes your fancy .

  • Seimi

    Joe, as Mark pointed out, you mustn’t have read my full post. I wasn’t referring to your christianity or lack thereof. Turgon said ‘before you can forgive, the wrongdoer has to express repentance.’ And you said, ‘Although not a christian myself, I fully support that.’

    I merely disagreed, and explained why. Gordon wilson didn’t seek repentance from his daughter’s killers, and probably didn’t care if they expressed it or not. But he still forgave them. By your, and Turgon’s logic, Mr. Wilson’s forgiveness didn’t count.

  • Munsterview

    Pip “………When you celebrate Christmas and every other Christian holiday remember they were Pagan first, perhaps some of us look into the real origins. Halloween for example is not all saints day………”

    Pagan off with yourself!

    The Celtic Druids had been around as long as Christianity and they had a very well developed Sacral System. Pagan implied no belief or sense of the Sacral ! Likewise the people that build Newgrange, how they not but but have a sense of the Sacral.

    I have a cousin that medically died of a heart attack in a doctors surgery ( best place to have a heart attack if you must have one) and went Out Of Body there. He remained out of body all the way to the hospital and during the efforts to revive him. ( long story see DailyGrail…’her sweet murmurings’ and the research of Julie Birchell if interested)

    He came back haunted by the perfect peace he found out there. All Human beings have that OBE capacity and all societies produced priests or shamans able to achieve it, make the links and open the doorways to this energy world.

    How far back that go is anybody’s guess but the Sacral World long predates Christianity and even the preceding Jewish belief systems.

    As for JoeC and the rest of the skeptics out there, as they say back in Kerry ” wait until you wake up dead some morning” ! In Radio Na Gaeltach when announcing the deaths in the various regions, they begin by saying ‘ Imithe ar Sli An Fhirinne inniu…… ‘gone on the trackway of truth to day’ …….. as with the Kerry tradition, when the transition came and the entity ‘woke up dead’ they then realized what ‘life’ was.

  • pippakin

    MV

    All Christian religions were built on ‘pagan’ foundations. This is not the thread for a very deep subject.

  • Mark

    Dead thread .

  • joeCanuck

    MV,

    Interesting. You say the best plce to have a heart arttack is in the doctor’s office. I disagree slightly. At the very young age of 39, I had a heart attack and was lucky enough to be lying on a bed in the ER, having driven myself there when I realised I wasn’t having a heartburn attack. 5 minutes after getting to to the hospital, my heart went into venticrular fibbrillation and I died. I remember it well. The Code Blue was called over the intercom and, according to my young son whom I had taken with me to the hospital, nurses and doctors came racing to the ER from all parts of the hospita.l To cut the story short, they “kicked started me” and after lingering between life and death fo a day, I pulled through .I have since had 4 more heart attacks, but all without dying. The Doctors know me as Mr.Atypical. Sorry if it disappoints anyone, no white lights or Jesus calling me home.
    If you or anyone here ever gets chest pains, get thee to hospital. The Doctors and Nurses are perfectly content if it turns out to be something as innocuous as indigestion. They much prefer that to you dying at home. Denial is the biggest killer when it comes to heart attacks.

  • joeCanuck

    Seimi,

    Thank you for canonising me. I must be the first atheist to receive such a distinction,

  • Seimi

    Joe, you should really try to read comments before you comment on them yourself.

    I didn’t canonise you. Mark did.

    Now, instead of having a go, do ye fancy actually addressing what I wrote?

  • joeCanuck

    OOps Seimi. I’m not quite fully awake yet. No, I don’t disgaree at all that people who have suffered can forgive those who harmed them even without knowing who they are.. It can help them get on with their lives, in many cases, without living in hate and feeling sorry for themselves. I have such a case in my own extended family. My Grandniece was totally blinded in the Omagh atrocity and I believe she has forgiven the perpetrators even though most of the terrorists responsible have escaped justice. She was only 15 whwen the atrocity accureed but, brave girl that she is, she continued her studies, going to University and getting a 1st class degree. She is also now a wife and mother.
    But, myself, I’m not so forgiving, especially when no remorse or repentance is shown. I applaud those who have the charity within themselves to do so. But I confess to not really understanding.

  • Seimi

    That’s ok, Joe. I’m not too alert myself in the mornings 🙂

    ‘No, I don’t disgaree at all that people who have suffered can forgive those who harmed them even without knowing who they are..’

    That’s different from what Turgon said though, and you initially agreed with him.

  • JJ Malloy

    MV

    A good friend of my mother had similar experience. She had a hard time forgiving the doctors for bringing her back!

    There is a dark side of that research you mention. Don’t 10-15% of those have negative OBE experiences when they temporarily die??

    I would imagine those experiences are reserved for people heartless enough to decide to dissappear another human being. (see how I brought that back to the topic at hand).

    As for the ancients, I doubt they had any more of in insight into death than we do. They probably thought about it less as it was just a normal part of life.

  • Munsterview

    Joe C,

    Agreed re ER, that reference was in the context of remote rural ireland!

    Been through it in my late fifties, hereditary in my case ! The condition was rare. When I collapsed I was between three weeks and three months of the first, full and final one. Six months of heavy medication, short term memory loss etc until I was finished with the treatment and but on maintenance, rather than corrective medication. It was a very scary period.

    I was told that I could have a long cultural life or a short business one, I opted for the former, did a history MA, pushed it, and had to pull back again and finish in a more leisurely pace over a longer period. Enjoying academic conferences, seminars and all these things I never had time for, hence a clean break with active politics. I could see the toll the latter is taking on others of my vintage last weekend in Donegal.

    OBE : I came from a culture and remote area in the 50’s where in my childhood most people were born and died at home. While the incidents referred to did not happen all the time, they were sufficiently frequent as not to be considered extradionary. For some hours prior to death, what were referred to as ‘the other crowd’ came to escort the dying person who see both the incarnate and disincarnate entities.

    This person then acted as a medium and it was really like talking to somebody on the phone. While it was profound, it was also amusing as occasionally although it was years later, one of the living and another of the dead could take up an argument exactly where they left off when both parties were alive in earth! So much for the wisdom of the ages etc.

    I am not surprised at your experience : OBE are lucidly recalled only by about one in ten. Apparently if one has been through, AA as with my cousin, or Drug rehab etc, in short if they have sorter out their emotional state and advanced their understanding, this OBE is more likely to happen. My late father died of cancer, he was conventional Catholic in his belief and had no time for the esoteric.

    Three months before his death, he had an OBE and from then to the day before his death, he was able to go around the region as if he had a personal chopper. He narrated far, far too many things about our own farm, that of neighboring ones, things going on in the surrounding villages, activities of his grandchildren and other such things to have any doubt as to the validity of his experiences.

    Another of these things I suppose, it is a question of belief, open mind or disbelief!

  • joeCanuck

    Seimi,

    I probably misunderstood or misread Turgon. Same (lame) excuse; poor night’s sleep, not totally awake.

  • Munsterview

    JJ

    Dark-side, Hell, damnation etc

    The Buddhist Twin Verses start with….. all that we are is born from our thoughts and formed of our thoughts etc. Whatever visualization a person has of heaven or hell is the one that will unfold for them in the discarnate energy immediately after ‘crossover’ The Tibetan book of the Living and the Dead, is one of the best readily available from booksellers.

    It so follows that the ‘afterlife’ expected will be the one encountered, it seems around 85% of experiences are positive while only 15% are negative. See AndrewGoughsarcadia,com for some interesting material regarding the cult of the dead. The negative more or less correspong with rates of depression and other mental problems.

    Ancient Irish literature is has plenty of reincarnation belief. Are you aware that several hand positions and positions etc now associated almost exclusively with Free Masons are to be found in the Book of Kells and the Book of Ballymote etc ? Up to the Catholic banning of FM by the Catholic Church in the early part of the 19th, century FM played a part in all the remaining Great Gaelic families like the O’Connors and the O’Connells.

    There is a belief inside certain Gaelic ‘uisce fe thalamh’ learning that re-incarnation was a core part of the Celtic Church and that was one of the principle bones of contention sorted out at the Senate of Brazil in North Cork ( near Banteer by Blackwater side) in 1111AD with the Roman Church. The poetry of Geoffrey O’Donoghue, Merriman and O’Rallaighe all have reference to going OBE to get their poems. Likewise the blind harper O’Callaron, for some of his great compositions.

  • pippakin

    HeadTheBall

    We all spring from the same well.

  • MichaelMac

    Mick,

    the poll was mentioned on politics.ie and was mentioned on RTE this morning by Nick Coffey. It had Adams on 38% in Louth and the SF candidate in West Meath on 20%, again carrying them a seat there.
    A lot of people have stated that it was carried out by a bookmaker. It garnered a bit of credibility because it was Paddy Power who commissioned RedC to do the poll in Donegal SW and they got the SF vote right, despite a lot of people dismissing it.
    In this case there is no information on whether it was commissioned or indeed any information on the sample or methodology.
    Seems that someone has been taking the hand out of RTE. Best to ignore it until there is some sort of verification.

  • JJ Malloy

    “See AndrewGoughsarcadia,com for some interesting material regarding the cult of the dead. The negative more or less correspong with rates of depression and other mental problems.”

    So if you are miserable in this life you will be miserable when you cross over. Damn life really isn’t fair

  • Munsterview

    JJ

    Just realized that this is the fourth spiritual / philosophical query that I have dealt with to-day.

    Are people giving up on this life and starting to become concerned with the next ?

    Ye Gods, if nothing changes the OO will be marching around the place and FF still pulling strokes ? I must look into this anti-aging thing and find out what the progress is !