Nesbitt recommends politics over further street protests; McCallister disses talk of “culture wars” in speech to Ulster GAA

In other non-SDLP news, the Belfast Telegraph report that Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt has told party colleagues via an internal bulletin that the tactic of flag protests should cease.

The tactics used to protest over the flag have alienated many who instinctively supported the cause …

He warned against disrupting Belfast city centre and its traders for a second Christmas.

I hear talk of rallies, parades and protests. As ever, I understand and support the right for lawful and peaceful protest. I acknowledge and defend the right to assembly, enshrined in Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights. But I also say this: street protest will not get the flag back up at City Hall. I urge anyone thinking of taking to the streets to think again …

Remember the hundreds of thousands who assembled in front of City Hall nearly 30 years ago now, to demand an end to the Anglo-Irish Agreement? The agreement did not go away, but unionism lost friends and political position. The same has happened over the last 12 months.

Mike Nesbitt recommended “tougher, more demanding” “political strategy and negotiation” over white line and street protests.

NI21’s John McCallister has also been out and about, speaking to the GAA’s Ulster Council on Saturday.

So what brings a pro-Union, monarchist, Presbyterian to a GAA conference? I have no doubt some of you might be asking that question this morning.

He explained that to him the GAA represented “local faces, local families”, “neighbours and friends who are passionate about Gaelic sports” as well as “sporting spectacle”.

He encouraged those within the GAA who were “engaged in the work of building bridges, of securing the GAA’s place in a shared society”.

John McCallister reflected on what the GAA could do to move beyond controversies. The First Minister addressing NI’s largest sporting organisation “should not be ‘historic’ or ‘ground breaking’ or ‘controversial’”. It should be “utterly routine, utterly normal”.

From the perspective of the sporting organisation, welcoming political representatives of all shades is a very visible way of saying that this sport is for all and open to all. I do, then, pay tribute to the GAA for inviting politicians from backgrounds not normally identified with your sporting family to speak at events like this.

He questioned why politicians who failed to give leadership needed to build a shared society were talking about a “culture war”.

When a small minority have been talking about a “culture war”, the rest of us have listened to U105, watched ‘Downton’, visited the local National Trust property, admired the beauty of the Mournes, and wondered why Ireland didn’t do better in the Six Nations! It’s not exactly a “culture war”, is it?

Though more financially challenged non-NI21 supporters may not have afforded the admission or membership fee to get into the enjoy an NT property, or afforded the petrol to drive down to the Mournes?

It does demonstrate that whatever the political differences in this society – differences that with each passing year have less and less meaning.

Regular unionist pro-union concern about the naming of some grounds after terrorists was not explicitly mentioned.

The GAA has done much to address historic perceptions that have hurt this organisation. The effort and vision you have put into this has been tremendous and has shown considerable leadership. Leadership often missing, in fact, in the political sphere. So, thank you.

But – and I know you realize this – there is more to be done. There are still some out-standing issues to be addressed. And some ill-chosen words and comments in recent weeks have been, to say the least, entirely unhelpful.

The Ulster GAA have an increasingly comfortable relationship with non-nationalist politicians. Given that the GAA are expecting these kind of issues to be raised – and won’t be offended if the challenge is thoughtful and constructive – it feels like weakness to avoid having some of that conversation in public. It’s reminiscent of Rev David Latimer’s address to Sinn Fein’s Ard Fheis in Belfast. Or a bit like me attending the NI21 conference next weekend and overlooking any need for public challenge in the blog post that follows.

You will, of course, face nay-sayers in your own organisation. Those who will say that it is best not to rock the boat, not to move too fast. I know all about those voices – I was, after all, a member of the UUP for a long time!

He offered advice:

Don’t settle for half-measures. Don’t be afraid of showing leadership. The support in this society, the desire and hope for something different, for a better future for our children is profoundly strong. Tap into that desire and hope by your words and actions.

John McCallister finished:

If the past was summed up by the phrase ‘Us and Them’, the future must be defined by the phrase ‘Better Together’. Such a future can only be good for Northern Ireland, and the GAA. It is a future in which citizens of all backgrounds respect the GAA’s sporting achievements, in which citizens of all backgrounds enjoy the spectacle and skill of GAA sports.

, , , , , ,

  • Morpheus

    Neutral is the end of the peace process???

    “…exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos and aspirations of both communities”.

    In the absence of equality, despite the fact that it is ALL OVER the GFA, then the next best option is neutral. Equality is not a gift that Unionism can bestow, it does not comes with terms and conditions. We are all equals here in Northern Ireland and we’ll decide our own future using proper democratic methods.

  • carl marks

    Chinook
    Not sure if I get your point, is it.
    This is the fault of SF for doing what they told those who voted for them they would do if they got elected! The leaflet didn’t happen, loyalists didn’t embark on a sectarian rampage, and unionist politicians didn’t stand beside and support gangsters and thugs causing chaos on the streets.
    So SF is sailing close to the wind, again the leaflet didn’t happen; it’s the end of the peace process eh! Wouldn’t worry about it loyalists going to war would interfere with the oul moneymaking,
    Morpheus
    I’m afraid you’re right the abilty to blame others for their violence and the selective sudden onset dementia that kicks in when it suits is impressive.

  • Chinook

    I don’t remember mentioning a leaflet! I stated that DUP and UUP were unable to do anything to prevent the violence at the flag protests.However,on the issue of leaflets being distributed throughout the East,that plainly lies at the feet of DUP-a party who i have little respect for,(Ditto Mr Paisley),who IMO was responsible for thousands of young men joining the UDA,UVF etc.,due to his twisted reality of N.I. and its future.As previously stated,I am an UUP voter but DUP have a lot to answer for.
    SF do IMO do sail extremely close to the wind and not necessarily for the benefit of all NI citizens.

  • carl marks

    Chinook
    I don’t remember mentioning a leaflet! I stated that DUP and UUP were unable to do anything to prevent the violence at the flag protests

    Of course you didnt mention the leaflet,That was the point of my post; you managed to miss out the contribution the DUP/UUP made to winding up the mob. The two parties getting together to write, publish and distribute a leaflet (without putting their names on it) with alarmist language, printing it in Alliance colours and you manage to leave it out of your analysis, instead you go it was the cunning Shinners who tricked us all (despite this being an issue from 2012 you imply that it was surprise tactic by them) interesting that you believe that neutrality is so offensive to unionists that it will mean the end of the peace process, what you are saying is to hell with Democracy do it our way or its war.

  • IanR

    DC:

    “Belfast is the capital city and it was nice to have the union flag up there from a significant public building given its proximity to the city centre”

    I wonder if there’s a difference in perspective here which would help to explain why the flegs issue kicked off to the extent that it did. Nationalists just think “It’s only one of 26 district councils; it’s been implemented on other local authority HQs with little bother so why all the fuss?” The ‘capital city’ is Dublin from the nationalist perspective?

  • Chinook

    I didn’t imply it was a surprise tactic,rather that it was underhand and devious.
    Both unionist parties had the right to speak out and inform their respective followers/voters of what was happening.Of course SF wouldn’t use alarmist language or wind up the CNR community.
    I stated that other Nationalist controlled councils would have followed suit if SF would had their way( No flags)in an attempt to neutralise and take everything seen as British from within NI.This would have seriously destabilized NI and the Peace Process and in my opinion,.ended the peace.It’s all take, take,take with SF,and its no great surprise that they were prevented from continuing the Maze Project.
    Democracy! Must be a new word in the SF dictionary.

  • Red Lion

    Chinook, what is the difference between UUP and DUP in terms of core values and policy?

    Especially since the liberal end of the UUP could take no more , I see little or no difference in these parties. Would they not just be better off in a full scale merger?

  • Morpheus

    No, that’s not it IanR, I don’t think anyone is in any doubt that Belfast is the capital of Northern Ireland.

    To me the changing of the flag flying policy was simple house-keeping. Belfast City Hall belongs to the people of Belfast and the people of Belfast, through their public representatives, voted to change the flag-flying policy. BCH should be representative of its people and its history, not the last 100 years of Unionism.

    Belfast is not ready for equality, despite what the GFA says, so SF/SDLP put forward a neutrality motion but instead voted for an Alliance motion which brought BCH into line with Stormont, Lisburn and the rest of the UK. Belfast is now the same as Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield etc and follows standard practice set out by the College of Arms.

    Alliance could have abstained from voting and the SF/SDLP motion would have carried so rather than the firebombs, death threats and the attempted murder of a police officer time would have been better served thanking the Alliance and thinking about how years of abuse and misuse of The Union Flag has resulted in such negativity towards it in Northern Ireland.

    All public spaces should be neutral and welcoming to all.

  • carl marks

    Chinook
    I didn’t imply it was a surprise tactic, rather that it. was underhand and devious
    I think you’re a bit confused you see when somebody has been “was underhand and devious” it usually means that they surprised you (with a tactic you were not expecting) and of course the unionist parties have a duty to tell people what is happening but they also have a duty to avoid winding people up, and the leaflet certainly wound people up, also when the corner boys took to the streets and tried to murder people they had a duty to condemn the illegal protests but they chose to at best keep quiet at on many occasions supported the criminal gangs on the street.
    Finally you say “Democracy a new word in the SF dictionary” very good perhaps you would be good enough to give us your definition, and how does BCC voting to keep the flag on designated days break the principals of Democracy. And I’m still waiting for an explanation as for why a neutral society is so evil that it would destroy the peace process.

  • IanR

    Morpheus:

    “No, that’s not it IanR, I don’t think anyone is in any doubt that Belfast is the capital of Northern Ireland.”

    I’m not sure that’s true. A fair proportion of the population don’t even have any truck with the phrase ‘Northern Ireland’. You might get widespread agreement that Belfast City (not all of which falls within the boundaries of BCC) is the largest metropolitan area in (the nine counties of) Ulster.

  • DC

    Carl Marks always leaves out the bit about nationalists being nationalists and where they can they will as far as possible remove british symbols and flags and that that was the basis on which this flag proposal was built on – alliance only got its way because of the combined SF & SDLP vote – whose vote is about removing britishness because they are irish nationalists. therefore the flag was taken down for ideological reasons not good relations. And that is not an entirely helpful approach – understatement – which is why i am surprised alliance entertained the idea given its strongholds in places like carrick and east belfast – if anything alliance has fouled its nest.

    there is something indirectly stigmatising in the neutrality approach to things and it is that britishness is exclusive and offensive and inappropriate in northern ireland and must be removed so as to make the place more appealing all round. that is highly offensive to people with a british identity particularly so given the union is still in place and highly embarrassing for the alliance party to be seen to be involved in something that operates a bit like that or along those lines. i don’t take the view that to remove is to improve but others on here do as you can clearly see.

    as i said designated days is operated in britain but it is never brought into being off the back of a motion carried in the belief that britishness is offensive and exclusive and must be removed where possible and as far as possible. this is much more plausible a reason as to why designated days was backed by SF and SDLP and came into being than alliance’s take on things – the good relations baby that should have been if managed and delivered right ended up still born.

  • Chinook

    carl marks,
    Sorry, but i was a little bit underhand and devious by your reply.
    I believe that the politicians on the street were there to attempt to stop the violence from escalating,but were unable to do so because of one of the “criminal gangs ” i.e.the UVF.They were orchestrating the violence by using the “corner boys” to do their dirty work.No different than the IRA and their “corner boys”.
    Concerning BCC – I have previously stated “What is done is done and it’s time to move on,although just because a vote is democratic,it does not mean it is in the spirit of the GFA. A bit like the play park in Newry.I hope SF and SDLP and their supporters are very proud of themselves.
    SF view of democracy is a Pan Nationalist front.My view of democracy is the same as any other decent person,one can abide by it,even if one does not agree with the decision.

  • Morpheus

    DC: I don’t know anyone who has a problem with Britishness, even the SF voters I know don’t have a problem with Britishness. I am married to a (very) British lady from Southeast England as an example and our kids have a full appreciation of their British and Irish heritage. She fully supports the designated days policy and does not feel any less British for it. Does the flag on BCH define your Britishness or, as I suspect, do you think it should fly 365 days a year, unlike the rest of the UK, to remind nationalists that this is your manor and not theirs?

    Chinook: to a man, every single person I know finds the play park decision as deplorable as you do. It should never have happened because, as I said earlier, all public areas should be neutral and welcoming. If the locals wanted to name something after McCreesh they should’ve ponyed up.

  • Morpheus

    There’s another mention of ‘pan nationalist.’ I might start a counter 🙂

  • DC

    It’s an ill bird that fouls its own nest.

  • Neil

    DC,

    Unionists did their best to avoid Irish identity being expressed in Belfast for a long time. On the one occasion a good dacent Protestant might encounter an Irish flag in Belfast – St. Paddy’s – every effort was made to spread the message that tri colours were not welcome in the city.

    Your community has a pretty dismal record of accepting our symbols, anywhere. The troubles reputedly got going in earnest when one good dacent Protestant could take no longer the presence of a tri colour on the Falls Road. More recently when one Republican parade attempted to access the City Centre (compared to dozens of Unionist ones) your lot went daft and made sure it didn’t get past.

    So in a City which is basically split 50:50 and heading in the direction of Catholic, which is dominated by British sounding streets, bridges and buildings and where many of the public buildings only every have the Union Jack you should not be surprised that some moves are made towards recognition of the slight, soon to be pronounced majority. Designated days is what we get.

    Finally, regarding Alliance, they had a policy, they implemented it. Now you could blame the voters, for electing someone without due dilligence, ya know researching their policies and so on, or you could maybe even blame the DUP and UUP for not bringing this issue to the attention of the electorate in East Belfast on the doorsteps instead of last xmas (they would have if they thought of it, but Peter’s big head made him think he was getting back in). But you insist on blaming Alliance for having a policy and not doing a u turn on it, and that’s just strange.

  • carl marks

    DC (profile)

    14 November 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Carl Marks always leaves out the bit about nationalists being nationalists
    Actually I don’t, I have tried to tell you this, of course nationalists want all British symbols removed (honestly DC must the entire democratic process be explained to you) unionists are unionists they want to keep all British symbols we have a thing called elections and whoever gets the majority gets to decide what happens.
    Now I know you have a problem with those dam nationalists having the dam cheek to be nationalists but tough shit that life.
    The flag issue was one of the things that both SF and SDLP stated in their manifesto (another democratic, means a document telling the voters what you will do when elected) they would deal with, Alliance stated in their manifesto (see above) that they favoured Designated days.
    The unionists wanted to keep the flag 365 (strange that this was different in other council areas) but the vote went against them.
    The unionist in their time honoured tradition went bucko (your word) with illegal protest given support by unionist politicians and with criminals taking over the streets.

  • carl marks

    ChinookI believe that the politicians on the street were there to attempt to stop the violence from escalating,but were unable to do so because of one of the “criminal gangs ” i.e.the UVF.They were orchestrating the violence by using the “corner boys” to do their dirty work.No different than the IRA and their “corner boys”.

    Really can you provide any links or quotes supporting this because proof would really help your case?
    You seem obsessed with the IRA and SF indeed you quote their actions to defend unionists, i didn’t realise that unionists took SF as their moral compass (You know they done it so I’m going to do it as well, a bit primary school playground). Or you could just be using that old trick of trying to divert the focus from the subject.

  • DC

    Neil and Morpheus

    Listen. It’s time to come clean – admit it – you pity the Alliance Party as it was left holding a still born and you feel sorry for it so you come out with supportive comments all the time, whenever deep deep down you know my analysis is right. the whole flag policy change was fucked up, the public know it was fucked up – you know it was fucked up on purpose.

    it was a fuck up.

    there.

    continue to rattle out all this bigging up of the alliance party all you want but i know that you don’t really mean it.

    you are trying your best to comfort alliance after it was left holding a still born.

    and it didn’t deserve that.

    it deserved a nice good relations baby but wasn’t genetically endowed enough – that is to say politically wise enough to spot the ethno-sectarian power plays that ensnared it of which nationalists and their bigotry played as big a part as any in setting up.

    so, cue blame unionists like mad. rather than fess up to the fact that it could have been done better than taken down in spite.

  • carl marks

    DC

    I love it, so convinced are you of the total rightness of your cause that you cannot even accept that other people disagree with you, you sir are a classic unionist.
    You’re really Willie Frazer aren’t you!

  • DC

    hi carl

    did you not support my analysis at 8:13pm and that it was taken down for ideological reasons not good relations? well then.

  • “whenever deep deep down you know my analysis is right. ”

    @DC,

    So to your brilliant powers of political analysis you also add mind reading? If you actually knew how to properly capitalize your posts I might be more inclined to believe this.

  • carl marks

    DC
    Whoever claimed it was taken down for good relations that was a construct of your own in an attempt to excuse loyalist violence, the people who came out and rioted have form for coming out and rioting at any excuse.
    Again must I point out that removal was in the manifestos of both the SDLP and SF, designated days was in the manifesto of Alliance!
    Then when (after plenty of warning) the vote took place it surely was no surprise as to what happened, a compromise was reached, a fair and reasonable one as matter of fact the same compromise that unionists agreed on in councils they control
    That changes would take place was inevitable after the last council elections,
    that unionism ignored this fact until the last minute was obvious so in a devious and underhand (thanks Chinook) tactic they published a leaflet using the upcoming vote to attack a MLA who took a pay packet away from them.
    The leaflet was financed by both the UUP and DUP it didn’t have their name on it and it used wild language like “our flag being torn down” and whipped up tension.
    The loyalist gangs as usual supplied the cannon fodder as unionists politicians give them political cover, them the unionist politicians lost control and the PUP/UVF (with BNP input) used the trouble to increase their influence.
    If one positive thing has come out of this it is that the unionist backlash has been shown to be a paper tiger limited in its power to bringing teenagers out on the streets and camping in a place where people used to dump rubbish.
    Now unless you get used to the idea that as the demographics of this place change it will change and with that change your stress levels are going to go through the roof and that is not healthy.

  • Decspur

    DC

    I’m a born and bred Londoner, I’ve being following this thread for a couple of days now. Can I ask what is your desperation to be more british than us mainland Brits all about? And why can’t your community understand democracy? Political parties do what their electorate want them to do. That’s what happened deal with it. Your views and the views of some of your community are alien to mainland Brits, dare I say it the nationalist community seem to have more in common with mainland Brits in as far as just getting onn with life, providing for their families and not breaking the law over a lost democratic vote. By the way guess how many people I’ve heard over here mention your flag issue or Twaddle protest?…… Not one!! Why? Firstly no one gives a shit and secondly it’s embarrassing to Britain. Your are one hell of lost tribe.

  • DC

    @Decspur

    I am only offering an explanation as to why things turned out like they did and didn’t work out well – some blame the leaflet and calling attention to council activities, helping to bring it all to light in a sensational manner some allege; but all I am saying is that you need to understand the motives and I hope that I have at least managed to explain in some way why people felt upset, insulted and annoyed due to the way in which the flag was taken down.

    Imagine Northern Ireland and England as trees if you will, now you know the older the trees get the more rings they have and the older the tree the deeper the roots the more stable and secure the tree. Well England’s tree you could argue took root around 1066 and has lots of rings, whereas Northern Ireland since its rooting and inception in 1921 is a relatively small tree with much smaller roots than england, it has been contested and blown about a lot, if not blown up in parts since then. britishness isn’t welcome it would seem, brits out was the slogan, the conflict remember only ended in 1998 and the IRA officially wrapped up in 2005. I hope i am explaining some key differences in terms of how england is different as a place than say northern ireland and its affinity and constitutional link with britain. now back to the flag, it was taken down because less of britishness and british flags is deemed to be an improvement, which is why republicans and nationalists voted for designated days, not because they gave a shit about the civility of it but because less is more, less britishness = more inclusiveness. Crap. Alliance attached itself to that and it just looked bad in my eyes given where it had grown up and developed, it has dense networks in places like carrick and east belfast and certain people within close proximity to alliance offices felt upset that alliance didn’t see the flag removal for what it was. or how it looked – a victory for the rationale that british is exclusive and less of it is a good thing indirectly stigmatising those with a british identity in northern ireland.

    and as i said the public are no fools either, they know what a fuck up looks like. peter robinson came out of it bad but so did alliance based on the poll taken in and around the time of the decision.

  • Neil

    and as i said the public are no fools either,

    Well you say that, but in the same breath say the public are annoyed that they voted for a party who’s policies they don’t agree with. Now that sounds pretty damn foolish to me.

    I hope that I have at least managed to explain in some way why people felt upset, insulted and annoyed due to the way in which the flag was taken down.

    Yes we all saw the political anoraks who descended on City Hall last xmas. A bunch of political intellectuals who were only annoyed because of the nuances of the political process, not the result itself.

    And then on Facebook we all got to see for ourselves the scintillating debate taking place: did the f*cking taigy c*nts go too far? Seems they did according to the Loyalist Facebook groups. Some people ‘smelled of mass’ in the groups, and got banned. Barely any evidence of illiterate, thuggish loyalism to be had. FGAU WATP GSTQ NSE ETC. ETC. ETC.

    Sorry, no sale. Unionists did what they’ve been doing for decades – the second they didn’t get their way they went ape shit and started threating (and in some cases trying) to murder people. You’re still polishing away DC but all that’s under that turd is more turd.

    PS – it annoys me that approaching 50% of your bonfires have my flag in them. I respect your flag a bit less now, though I’d not burn one as it’s not in my nature.

  • DC

    You’re still polishing away DC but all that’s under that turd is more turd.

    It’s just my opinion, that’s all.

    i’m sorry things didn’t work out better – but the union is still here and i don’t think people should be embarassed and stigmatised because of their britishness.

    when / if there is a united ireland i won’t be demanding neutrality that much is sure i promise you that will be that.

    have a nice weekend.

  • DC

    and for tmitch – sorry i don’t capitalise all the time and i know embarrass has two ‘r’s and will try to write correctly in future.

    there.

    lol

  • carl marks

    What is most amusing about your last post is not only the mopery but the seeming disability to think in a joined up manner.
    Firstly the leaflet please explain why if it was to inform the people did it attack a MLA instead of the councillors taking the vote, why was it printed in Alliance colours and why the cowardly tactic of no name on it.
    Secondly (and this has been pointed out to you before both SF and the SDLP stated their intentions to remove the Flag many years ago )you should thank Alliance for getting you the same deal the DUP/UUP got in Lisburn, Craigavon and Stormount.
    But you should consider yourself lucky since before the setting up of NI unionists have disgraced the union flag by using it as a sectarian banner and while singing bigoted songs have waved if in the faces of nationalists. It has been waved by bands and groups celebrating some of the most evil people who ever drew breath (shankill Butchers and their funerals) some of the most hate filled periods of our troubles (Holy Cross, Harryville) then of course is the ragged example only put up on lampposts to mark out the places Catholics are not wanted, so less of the oul “they have hurt our feelings” mope laden crap it would be much more apt if you thought about other peoples.
    Finally you tell us we must respect your feeling about your flag how about you lot stop burning our flag at every opportunity, now I realise that is a longstanding tradition of unionists to burn tricolours to annoy catholics but if you want to keep any British symbols stop using them to offend Taigs and stop burning ours.
    Now I know that you will either ignore this, promise change sometime in the future if we just do it your way first or try to claim they are unrelated to the Flegs issue but that wont wash.

  • DC

    carl i will do you the justice you deserve by not even reading your last comment only to say if there is a united ireland you can fly your flag 365 days a year from city hall. i think given the current constitutional position that there is a genuine entitlement to have the union flag flying like that because that’s just the way it is.

    i will not complain when regionally people decide to have things that way i.e. a united ireland. fly your tricolour 365. and i am not joking – that much is true.

    only a pity the union flag couldn’t be flown like that but we all know why.

    and you too have a nice weekend. (although if you come with a lot of aul bullshit i can’t guarantee to keep it together, i’ve just about had enough of your bollix….)

  • carl marks

    and you too have a nice weekend. (although if you come with a lot of aul bullshit i can’t guarantee to keep it together, i’ve just about had enough of your bollix….)

    I believe that is the forth time you have threatened me when you have had the facts put in front of you!
    must be a loyalist thing , and i was right uyou both ignored asnd trivilised my comment.

  • Charles_Gould

    Really the educational system in Northern Ireland perpetuates a division that could melt away.

  • DC

    Carl, Neil and Morpheus

    This is for you guys and all the Alliance crew, it’s time to say goodbye:

    http://youtu.be/5Ee-0r1nBX8

    Enjoy!

  • Neil

    Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Poor old Naomi though, she never even got to vote on the fleg.

  • DC

    I know i know, a better councillor than an MP.

  • carl marks

    DC (profile)

    16 November 2013 at 12:25 am

    I know i know, a better councillor than an MP.

    the people of east belfast thought different, thank god they have more sense than vote PUP.
    and they will reelect her plus more members on BCC.
    you still dont see it Alliance where the winners here, they stood up to the bully boys. decent people will see that and reward it!

  • Decspur

    DC

    I have to say I enjoyed your tree analogy I really did. Now lets look deeper in to trees and them representing the public leaves that hang of them if you like. There is a third tree that you failed to mention, it in fact was planted around the same time and in the same garden as your tree. That tree seems to be quite comfortable in its surrounds and root quite nicely, just as nicely as the big old tree I live in. So out of three trees to are happy enough with their soil and cracking on. So it begs the question should the tree that’s struggling to take root be have been planted where it was? Or should it have been planted at all?

    Or we could look at trees in a different perspective. A young tree could be dug up and replanted and it will carry on to become a big strong tree. Meaning because of its youth it can handle change and live on. Try moving an old well rooted tree and it will die simple as that. In reality the people on this big tree embrace change to our way if life daily. The people in your young tree can’t??

  • Decspur

    Excuse the spellings and grammar, I’m doing this from my phone.

  • DC

    well it’s all to play for and i really dunno how it will work out in the east.

  • DC

    ‘I’m doing this from my phone.’

    i just hope tmitch is as forgiving as myself…doubt it…

  • carl marks

    Just looked at your link, my god you lot must be really terrified of Alliance.
    But explain to me how Naomi long who isn’t a member of BCC and not the party leader is the focus of that little bit of video (nice soundtrack) since she wasn’t involved in the vote why single her out.
    Could it be we are right and it’s not really about the flag but about the Westminster Seat?

  • DC

    I know she can take it, i know i really know.

    she is after all the deputy leader, unchallenged, no contenders, the person that gutted that eileen bell. she can take it all right.

  • DC

    i mean if you can’t take it, you don’t give it out no?

  • carl marks

    But why are they going for her, she had nothing to do with the vote never mind what she can take, why are they going at her not those who voted. Answer the question.

  • DC

    carl, i really dunno, i really dunno how it will pan out – but i think it’s fucking brilliant. absolutely.

    what do you call someone who throws their weight around – a bully?

    i just love it.

  • carl marks

    you back on the sandy row marching powder. goodnight we will talk again in the meantime ask yourself why you cant answer questions asked of you.
    sleep well!

  • DC

    goodnight carl – we will close the circle one day.

  • Comrade Stalin

    i’m sorry things didn’t work out better – but the union is still here and i don’t think people should be embarassed and stigmatised because of their britishness.

    “stigmatised because of their Britishness” apparently wasn’t an issue when the unionists introduced designated days on several other councils they controlled, or when unionists assented to, for example, the Flag Order.

    There is no case you can make for the fleggers that stands up (although God knows you’ve tried).

    I could not complain if unionists opposed designated days in other places as vociferously as they did in Belfast. Their u-turn is what exposes the fact that this was a cynical, political exercise, with the objective of destabilizing the country, damaging the economy, and intimidating a democratically elected representative in order to win a future election.

  • looneygas

    DC,
    I admire your tenacity and unflinchingness.

  • Chinook

    carl marks.
    Is that not what we have in NI?,playground politics Stormont is just an extension of the school yard.
    I have always disliked terrorists,insurgents and paramilitary groupings in any shape or form and SF/IRA fit neatly into that bracket.Like everyone else I accepted SF in politics and voted for the GFA and In doing so I expected SF prove all the doubters wrong and to move forward and make NI work.I should have known better..Unfortunately once they had gotten a sniff of power they continued to do everything they could to antagonize the PUL community
    .The problem with R/N is that everything has to be “In my lifetime”.Everyone wants to be the person who gained a UI who got the Brits out,who removed everything British from NI while they are still alive and in turn, receive the plaudits to boost their ego.They have no interest in letting NI recover from it’s wounds and gradually face the future, whatever it may entail.
    World Socialist Web Site Far right UVF behind……
    Sorry,don’t know how to post links.Product of 60s education.

  • Chinook

    Red Lion,
    Good question! The differences between the two are subtle just like SF and SDLP..Personally I think SDLP have lost their way since the departure of Gerry Fitt.( a gentleman whom I much admired).
    Ironically,much to its detriment, Unionism has always been fractured.I’ve heard it said many a time, that if Unionists would only stick together, they would become a Tour de force in NI politics,but the DUP hardcore Christian fundamentalist views are the biggest obstacle to a real UUP.

  • arsetopple

    Hi Chinook,

    I think this is the link you meant to post above=

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/01/19/flag-j19.html

    The glaring inaccuaracies in this article make it hardly worth while referencing.
    Not all Christian fundies like the DUP
    Wonder how these bloggers get away with this

    http://psalm79.com/

    enjoy

  • Chinook

    Thanks arsetopple.,
    That,s the one,although my main reference would have been the documentary around two weeks ago on either BBC,UTV or C4.Pretty damning that one.
    Checked the other link,but video was blocked.
    Agree with leadership of OO,.they really should pull back quite a bit.A strong dose of straight talking would make life better for everyone.It seemed to work for APOD.The main days for OO are 1st and 12th July.Don’t think there is much need for other OO parades considering the mixed society we now live in.
    As for Mikeyboy,he will still get my vote.