Richard Haas arrives: Peter and Martin your summer holidays are cancelled…

Good piece from Ken Reid from UTV on the upcoming talks on parades… Is it just me or were the Garvaghey and Lower Ormeau Residents also not entirely crazy about the 2010 deal that put controversial parades ultimately in the hands of OFMdFM? It’s not clear whether they have been invited or will be coming too.

Just the same, it is interesting that the OO seems to be finally coming round to the idea…

  • redstar2011

    After 15 years it would be bizarre/absurd to start the rows over Garvaghy again.

    Besides, its not in British spokesperson Mmgs or his partys gift to foist a parade on Garvaghy road.

    They’re in a precarious enough position with Ardoyne but in Garvaghy ” their writ don’t run”

  • michael-mcivor


    ” They’re in a precarious enough position with Ardoyne but in Garvaghy ”

    Sinn Fein are doing well in both areas unlike other groups-Sinn Fein were in both area’s at the worst of times and the best of times-unlike other groups-

    No point you sounding like a orange man now just because Sinn Fein helped to stop those two orange marches-unlike others-

  • redstar2011

    Michael if SF had their way they would allow a march dwn Garvaghy tomorrow. They are epitome of Animal Farmesque career politicians- something they for decades accused others of.

    They dont rule the roost in Garvaghy and their Cara in Ardoyne represents a lot less residents than Garc- but control freaks that they are they portray Cara as THE residents group.

    I remember Mmg in particular years ago aiming the ” career politician” insult at another Nationalist- the same MMg that ran for President!!!!!

  • michael-mcivor


    I know its hurting you and the few other anti Sinn Fein ones that the march was blocked-all day yesterday you were writing/hoping the the orange march would be allowed to walk past the Ardoyne shops this weekend-their day is over-GARCs never even started-

  • redstar2011

    Bit silly Michael- but you’re entitled to your opinion.

    Meanwhile just like some of us can remember when Michael Jackson was white we can remember when the Shinners described themselves as a revolutionary party.

    This was of course before they decided to accept and administer British rule, support British security forces occupying Ireland and enforce Tory cuts on the population in the North.

    Nowadays as and when requested by the British Mmg spouts his masters platitudes whilst even SF supporters know that on the ground their days of massive support in Republican areas ( esp amongst younger voters are gone).

    Yes they still get elected but even in West Belfast a 35% result is hardly reminiscent of the glory days when they had Republican ideals and principles.

    Now many many in Republican areas no longer vote because they have a complete disconnect with them. Its understandable. Apart from the obvious issues surrounding the British appointed assembly, the young especially, see these middle aged establishment suits with their out of touch lifestyles as totally alien to their own lives

    A mixture of their ever right wing attitudes ( esp on economical issues) their lifeblood need for a corrupt and disconnected assembly together with their ambivalent attitudes re Republican goals make them no different in many ways than their partners at Stormont

  • qwerty12345

    Having just watched Ken Reid’s UTV piece can anyone tell me what the wonderful young people in that clip were chanting?

    It sounded like “Bouncey, bouncey, bouncey tra la la la la”

    Translation please?

  • DC

    You have no need for a translation – you got it right!

    It’s a Rangers FC chant.

    Ulster Press Centre loves doing the bouncy.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Redstar2011, during our last (perhaps it will actually be the last, if they keep extending Stormony’s term by a year at a time) election, I noticed the graffiti at Short Strand “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” Unlike so many other wall comments this was quickly painted over, almost before it was dry, by a jumpy team of painters.

    “Apart from the obvious issues surrounding the British appointed assembly, the young especially, see these middle aged establishment suits with their out of touch lifestyles as totally alien to their own lives.” This is not a new issue, but one aired as a problem for any future Ireland by William Rooney and D.P. Moran over a century ago. Any assembly, anywhere, will always show a family resemblance to “The Mother of Parliaments,” their “onlie begettor.” And these institutions were made by “middle aged establishment suits” for other “middle aged establishment suits” from their inception. They can absorb anyone, no matter how idealistic such people may be before they actually become the “elect.”

  • Son of Strongbow

    D P Moran, now there’s a name to conjure with.

    His ‘The Philosophy of Irish-Ireland’ must surely remain the seminal work for Irish nationalists throughout the last hundred years or so?

    As an Irish Protestant I suppose I should be thankful that mortality denied him the opportunity to explore the next logical step, the one involving calipers and facial measurements.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Always a delight, Son of Strongbow, but have you actually read any of the work of D.P. Moran or have you just read about him in the works of others? Your hint of racial measurements in the manner of the Ahnenerbe Institute suggets that you’re unaware of the substance of Moran’s actual ideas. You’re probably not aware that Moran was actually rather “King and Empire” when he wrote “The Philosophy of Irish-Ireland” where he was at some pains to outline what an energised Irish culture might, as an equal partner, actually offer the Empire….

    But I’m much more interested in his identification of the various forms of representitive government with the political and comercial interests of England, something that spookily seems to be proven again and again by actual experience. Not that I’m making any suggestions whatsoever for other forms of government, mind! Just mentioning the strange manner in which everything seems to apparently loop back to strengthen what are primarily English interests (not “Irish” whatever that may be to anyone, and certainly not “Irish Catholic” or “Irish Protestant” interests) every time an assembly is set up anywhere in Ireland.

  • Son of Strongbow

    “Not that I’m making any suggestions whatsoever for other forms of government, mind!”.

    Ah, the joy of the critic. By all means complain, ponder, muse. It’s all rather enjoyable when not burdened with any pressure to bring forward any (workable) alternatives.

    Empty vessels and all that…..

    Morgan’s “energised Irish culture” was awfully mono-cultural in outlook was it not? Personally I’d fail his test on a number of points. Although as he postulated himself, I suppose I should regard myself as fortunate for the ‘Irish nation’ even considering my tribe as worthy of ‘adoption’.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Ah, Son of Strongbow, at least not “empty” in the head, for I actually read the original texts rather than the digests! The real issue is “cui bono.” You elect someonne to represent you, but what happens when the intrests of his party, or his own personal interests differ? You stop being “represented” in other than a cursory sense. In effect you have enmpowered someone to fleece you innthe interests of a reified “something” called the state, but which is actually a bond of rather more powerful or important interests, which will always come before you. I can just about see the point of electing a representitive if the electorate concerned are attempting to employ someone wiser and more honest than themselves to represent them, but have you actually looked at the crowd at Stormont?

    In this event, the “more powerful or important interests” tend to be various sections of the English establishment, nowadays usually financial interests. All our institutions succour and support these interests first and foremost, and please, please, as Yeats asks, “prove that I lie.”

    Personally, I find the mono-culturalism of globalisation and Anglo-centric media culture we all “enjoy” today much more “mono-cultural in outlook” than the rich poly-cultural varieties (lots of “adoption” then) of pre-1914 “Irish Ireland”. But each to his own, and we do live in a free society, do we not…….

  • SeaanUiNeill

    SoS, just a few more words:

    “Morgan’s [I think SoS means Moran here] “energised Irish culture” was awfully mono-cultural in outlook was it not?”

    Try reading the text, not the commentators! “The Philosophy of Irish-Ireland”, edited by Patrick Maume, is available on Amazonat £10.07 and at QUB special collections. There’s even an original copy at the Linen Hall Library, so you have no excuse to simply trot out those old cliches stinking of the revisionists’ assessment of the poor man. Post-revisionism is now all the rage…..and the pendulum swing from “evil Brits destroyed Ireland” to “altruistic Brits civilised Ireland” has swung down to somewhere where we are at last attempting to really analyse that mess of contridictory indicators of meaning we all actually experience on our contrary little island.

  • I’ve suggested on another thread that the leaders of the O.O. in Belfast acquaint themselves with the theory of “Interest based negotiation”.
    I have been involved in that in the past as a manager. It can work wonders.

  • DC

    Joe – may i suggest you jet in like richard haas and contribute.

  • Am Ghobsmacht


    “This was of course before they decided to accept and administer British rule, support British security forces occupying Ireland and enforce Tory cuts on the population in the North.”

    In effect they’ve helped to create a monster.

    Nearly a century of spouting unworkable and fundamentally flawed republican dogma (unionists are equally happy and equally guilty of doing the same on their side of the fence) has now (going by your statement) ‘bitten them on the arse’.

    So many idiots and Irish Americans have been spoon fed the ‘occupation’ bullshit it defies belief.
    Carrickfergus isn’t occupied.
    Neither is Larne.
    Nor dozens of other towns around ‘the North of Ireland’.
    Belfast wasn’t but nearly is? How does that work? Once a certain number of people turn 18 and can vote then this Victorian Industrial city is now ‘occupied’?

    Granted, there is argument for places like Fermanagh, Crossmaglen and Derry etc, but, were the Unionists of the 1920’s to jettison anywhere of a Catholic majority then present day unification prospects would be exceedingly bleak wouldn’t they?

    So now, when republicans have some power and find out that their rhetoric is flawed and doesn’t work in the real world they find themselves struggling under the sheer weight of Republican disillusionment.

    Spare me the “what about unionists” as the Shepherds of that flock are equally moronic.

    I’m just baffled as to how a country that clearly doesn’t want Northern Ireland is some how occupying it.

    The only people who seem to believe that Britain wants NI are paranoid Republicans and delusional Unionists (who think that Britain is oh-so grateful for the Ulster 36th at the Somme) and people who read the Daily Mail.

    I bow to your superior history Kung Fu: Was ALL of Ireland not independent for a couple of days till Northland broke away? (farcical as it may have been)