“It was always the grunts… who got forensic evidence placed against them in court”

Interesting quote from AP’s veteran in the field, Shawn Pogatchnik, about how Gerry Adams handles accusations that he was directly involved in any action the IRA’s:

He shrugs it off. He has a wonderful Teflon quality about all these things. And the fact is, that when you have been a senior figure in the provisional IRA, or really any sophisticated paramilitary group in Northern Ireland, nothing can be proven because you never got your hands dirty.

It was always the grunts who planted the bombs, who handled the weapons, who got forensic evidence placed against them in court. But if you’re Al Capone, the only way they’ll get you is on not paying your taxes.

Quite. The only time Adams was caught off balance had nothing to with the IRA, and related to personal matters very close to home. It took him nearly three weeks to the get his story straight.

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  • Henry94

    So the lack of evidence again constitutes evidence?

    And the fact is, that when you have been a senior figure in the provisional IRA, or really any sophisticated paramilitary group in Northern Ireland, nothing can be proven because you never got your hands dirty.

    So no senior figures in the IRA were ever convicted? I seem to remember a time when everyone who was arrested was described as a senior figure. I used to wonder were there ever any junior figures.

  • tyrone_taggart

    Mick

    Can you clear something up.

    Was Martin Mc Guinnes a senior figure in the IRA or is the quote is wrong ?

    ::
    Martin mc Guinness was “caught with a car containing 250 lb (113 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. ”

    Wikipedia

  • Lionel Hutz

    Yeah, this isn’t exactly the best point given McGuinness conviction. Still we all know Adams was a member of the IRA. And if he wasn’t and was just some Public Relations front man then he was the top guys who didn’t get his hands dirty

  • keano10

    What on earth is the point on yet another thread on this subject? I think we can all guess the truth and why he needs to give the answers that he does.

    A much more interesting subject would be the still shadowy involvement of First Minister Peter Robinson in Ulster Resistance an organisation responsible for mass importation of weapons to loyalist terror groups. A subject which has received nothing like the same forensic journalistic examination as Adams has received.

    Why not?

  • michael-mcivor

    Seems like it was only brit army pigs- meant grunts, who had forensic evidence placed against them- only two brit army went to prison for killings in the six counties-
    both were privates-both were sent home early and both were allowed back into the brit army where both got promoted- justice- the brits have no right to even say that word-

  • tacapall

    Well Keano when confronted with that evidence Robinson, Wilson, Paisley et al in the DUP shrugged their shoulders too.

    It was always the grunts who handled the weapons, who got forensic evidence placed against them in court. But if you’re Al Capone, the only way they’ll get you is on dodgy land dealing..

  • tacapall

    Michael dont forget about Lance Corporal Clegg !

  • michael-mcivor

    tacapall-

    ” dont forget about lance corporal Clegg ”

    A lance corporal is just a glorified private-

  • What do Sluggers think of this pantomime of a performance …… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18858217 ….. although who will admit to not being surprised, as there is so much to prevent being made public knowledge, although trying to keep secret the way things are planned and realised in big picture games, is a lost cause in these new days of new ways of easily instantly communicationing sensitive intelligence and constructive/disruptive information.

    And to try and stop it appearing, marks one out as a person of interest for further intrusive/forensic investigation.

  • michael-mcivor

    amanfromMars-

    No suprise there- although the brits still think its a secret that their little army was ran from the streets and fields of Iraq- join up and run away is their new motto-

  • Alan N/Ards

    michael

    Do you have any stats on ira members who were convicted of sectarian murder and then rejoined the provo’s after serving their time.

  • michael-mcivor

    Alan N / Ards-

    No i have not got those stats-but they should be public some where, unlike the brit stats on the number of brit army who committed suicide on their return to blighty from Iraq and afganistan- thats a closly guarded secret- those brit army took defeat rather hard old bean-

  • Alan N/Ards

    michael

    Do you approve of ira members who were imprisoned for murders of civilians being reinstated in the ira?

  • michael-mcivor

    Alan N / Ards-

    The IRA is at peace with the world- so who ever was a member must have agreed with peace- because there is no one fighting a war in Ireland in 2012- even a cop was killed in england last week whilst no cops have been killed here this year- long may peace continue-

  • Alias

    That might have been how they got Capone in the old days but they moved on get his successors in organised crime with wire taps and video recordings as the technology progressed, which is, oddly enough, not an advance made by the British state despite having its agents working alongside the godfathers in the Shinners and ideally placed to gather such incriminating evidence.

  • The Lodger

    “Was Martin Mc Guinnes a senior figure in the IRA or is the quote is wrong ?”

    Taggart,

    You reckon that an apprentice butcher became OC Ireland overnight?

  • The Lodger

    “That might have been how they got Capone in the old days but they moved on get his successors in organised crime with wire taps and video recordings as the technology progressed, which is, oddly enough, not an advance made by the British state despite having its agents working alongside the godfathers in the Shinners and ideally placed to gather such incriminating evidence.”

    Alias,

    I think it is pretty clear that there was a protected species in the top echelon of PIRA. the question is did the intelligence services blindly put their faith in them coming good in the end, or where they being groomed to work directly for them? When the truth of that becomes clear then all of the republican efforts at rewriting history won’t be worth a ball of spit.

  • Alias

    Very sharp…

  • Alan N/Ards

    Michael

    It’s good that the “war” is over but you didn’t answer the question. Many civilians ( including catholic’s) were murdered in cold blood by members of the ira. Should they have been allowed to rejoin the ira when released form prison? You condemn the army for taking back into their ranks convicted killers, yet have nothing to say about republicans who were involved in the conflict doing exactly the same.

  • michael-mcivor

    Alan N / Ards-

    I don’t know if any member who was in prison for killing
    civilians were allowed to rejoin the IRA after they were released- things like that were not made public- but the brit army allowed sentenced criminal civilan killers back into their army, that is fact- whilst the other is only conjecture-

  • Dixie Elliott

    If Adams wasn’t in the IRA then he was a coward willing to stand back and encourage others to do what he wasn’t willing to do himself. The same goes for McGuinness who claims he left the IRA in 1974.

    They were the ones who said the war would never end until the British left. They kept insisting the war would never be scaled down at the expense of the ballot box. Why make these claims if they were never willing to fight that war?

    If they were never in the IRA or had left in 1974 then they weren’t leaders but agitators. In fact, like Paisley and his ilk they were nothing better than rabble-rousers.

  • aquifer

    The assassins and armed blackmailers of the IRA will always need a go-between to negotiate their gains, ideally someone who cannot be arrested and convicted and removed from the scene because they were carrying out armed actions. Adams and McGuinness negotiated with the Brits from the start, at Cheyne Walk with Willie Whitelaw I think it was.

    They were they active and effective participants in a murderous armed conspiracy.

  • HeinzGuderian

    Mention of the dear leaders name,brings the usual suspects out in force.
    A shinner/pira siege mentality,if you will.
    I find it rather amusing…;-)

  • Alan N/Ards

    Michael

    The question I was asking was .. Do you believe that it is proper that these convicted killers should have been allowed back into the ira after release? You still haven’t answered it.

    As far as the squaddies getting back into the army, I believe that they shouldn’t have been allowed back in. People who break the law should be punished, regardless of their profession, colour, religion, race or political persuasion.

  • Terry B

    tyrone_taggart (profile) 16 July 2012 at 3:18 pm
    Mick

    Can you clear something up.

    Was Martin Mc Guinnes a senior figure in the IRA or is the quote is wrong ?

    ::
    Martin mc Guinness was “caught with a car containing 250 lb (113 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. ”

    Wikipedia

    He was sentenced to 1yr in prison for those charges. Wish I had have got the same judge as him.

  • “A lance corporal is just a glorified private”

    Its not if you’re a lance corporal, now is it? (-;

  • weidm7

    Breaking: No evidence Gerry Adams was in the IRA

    Regardless of whether he was or not, this is a non-story, a way of spinning something out of nothing, in this case, a way to imply something was the case without anything suggesting it was. A bit like how ‘USA doesn’t go to war with Iran’ is spun out endlessly on other news sources.

  • Dixie Elliott

    weidm7

    Thats a tantrum if ever I saw one…A bit confusing, but never-the-less a tantrum.

    Marty thinks he’s Nelson Mandela…Is there any evidence he is not?

  • weidm7

    Thats a tantrum if ever I saw one…A bit confusing, but never-the-less a tantrum.

    Marty thinks he’s Nelson Mandela…Is there any evidence he is not?…. Dixie Elliott 18 July 2012 at 12:56 am

    Dixie Elliott, Good Morning,

    Are you deliberately trying to steer the subject matter away from how easy it is to spin news stories/lies as new stories to fit personal agendas with corporate sponsors?

    Such things tend to expose dodgy trolls and corrupt and/or incompetent government agents, and heaven knows, the world is awash with those sad souls/mad fools/useful tools.