Liam Adams Timeline

Before Sinn Féin’s, and Gerry Adams’, story changes again I thought I’d try to tie down some facts about where Liam Adams was, and when.

1987 – At the time Gerry Adams becomes aware of the initial allegations of child abuse against his brother Liam Adams, allegations which Gerry Adams told UTV Insight he believed “from the very beginning”, Liam is living in Donegal – outside the jurisdiction of the then-RUC.

Some time afterwards, an “under pressure” Áine Adams decides “not to proceed with the charges”.

Around that time, Gerry Adams told RT?s Tommie Gorman that “my brother moved out of my life and moved out of all of our lives when he went abroad for a while.”

And a subsequent statement from a Sinn Féin spokesman in the Irish News adds, “[Liam Adams] had lived abroad and when he returned around 1993/94 he started mixing in republican circles in Dundalk.”

1993 1994-96 – [Updated] Around this time Gerry Adams is photographed with Joe Cahill and others at Liam Adams’ second wedding in Dundalk.

1996 – As Suzanne Breen noted in the Sunday Tribune

In his 1996 autobiography, Before the Dawn, Gerry Adams makes 11 references to his brother Liam with no insinuation he has done anything wrong or is ostracised by the family.

In June 1996 Liam Adams, as Chairman of Louth Sinn Féin Comhairle Ceantair, is photographed with Martin McGuinness opening the new Sinn Féin office in Dundalk.

In October 1996 the Louth Sinn Féin selection convention is held, reportedly chaired by Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. As Suzanne Breen noted in the Sunday Tribune

Yet on 5 October 1996 – eight months before the canvass – the Dundalk Democrat reported that a selection convention would be held later that month in the Imperial Hotel. It named Owenie Hanratty and Liam Adams as those seeking the nomination.

This is important because it provides a date for Gerry Adams’ claimed intervention on Liam Adams’ nomination as a Dáil candidate for Sinn Féin in Louth. Although the UTV Insight programme didn’t include details of Liam Adams’ membership of Sinn Féin, subsequent reports placed him in Sinn Féin in Louth as a potential candidate for the 1997 Dáil election. It was after these reports were published that Gerry Adams went to RTÉ and claimed to have intervened.

Firstly in response to Liam Adams’ membership of Sinn Féin, as he told RTÉ’s Tommie Gorman on 20th December 2009

“And then he come back and although I saw him occasionally during that period, maybe a period of 15 years, when I learnt that he was a member of Sinn Féin it was I who moved to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin.”

And then, the next day, 21st December 2009, Gerry Adams told RTÉ’s Pat Kenny

Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen. “I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly.”

While the Sinn Féin spokesman quoted in the Irish News on 21st December 2009, as noted here, stated

“When Gerry found out he had become a member, he expelled him and that was around 1999.”

Except that, rather than “[getting] him dumped out of Sinn Féin” or having him “expelled”, Gerry Adams now describes that process in this way

“I was not aware of his membership of the party until I learned that his name was being mentioned as a possible candidate. When I heard this I contacted him directly. His name did not go forward and as a result of my efforts he later left the party.”

And the Sinn Féin national chairman stated yesterday, “The party President moved to ensure that Liam Adams did not go forward as a candidate and that he later left the party.”

1997 – In January 1997 An Phoblacht publishes a short review advertising a small pamphlet by “voluntary youth worker” Liam Adams, Our children, drugs, alcohol and solvents, “produced by Dundalk-based Muirhevnamor Community Youth Project.”

In June 1997 Liam Adams is photographed posing for Sinn Féin’s election publicity shots with Gerry Adams and Dáil candidate Owen Hanratty while canvassing in Dundalk.

On 11th July 1997, in the Irish Independent “Youth Community leader Liam Adams” is quoted in a report on “Ireland’s vile child-sex rings”

Youth Community leader Liam Adams says there is a strong local involvement in what he described as a “very well-organised arrangement” which may also have links in Donegal. “We have names of well-known business people who we are 100pc sure are involved.”

In November 1997 Liam Adams chairs the 40th anniversary commemoration in Edentubber, as noted by Suzanne Breen in the Sunday Tribune

The Dundalk Democrat of 15 November 1997 – five months after the infamous canvass – states that Sinn Féin member Liam Adams played a prominent role in the Edentubber 40th anniversary commemoration, just outside Dundalk, to honour five IRA members killed in the border campaign.

“Proceedings were chaired by Liam Adams of Sinn Féin in Co Louth. The main address was given by Sinn Féin national chairman, Mitchel McLaughlin,” the Dundalk Democrat states, The commemoration had taken place six days earlier.

Also in 1997, according to a Sunday Tribune report, Gerry Adams attended the christening of one of Liam’s children in Dundalk.

1998 – In September 1998 Liam Adams is quoted in a New York Times report – “Liam Adams, 43, the chairman of the community council. Mr. Adams, the brother of Gerry Adams, came to Dundalk 10 years ago”.

And from another Sunday Tribune report

Local sources say Liam Adams left Dundalk late in August 1998, still a Sinn Féin member. In the run-up to the May 1998 Good Friday agreement referendum, he was present at a BBC Radio Ulster Talkback debate in the Imperial Hotel, chaired by David Dunseith.

At some point in 1998, Liam Adams began work at Clonard Youth Centre where he continued to work until 2003.

2000 onwards – According to the UTV Insight programme, around Christmas 2003 Liam Adams sent a small amount of money to his daughter Áine.

Gerry Adams told the same programme that “from 2002 to 2007” he had “tried to create a circumstance where Liam would come forward” to meet his daughter, Áine.

From 2004 until 2006 Liam Adams continued to work in west Belfast as a youth worker with the Beechmont Community Project.

And from a Sunday Tribune report

In April 2006, Liam Adams was photographed smiling with Sinn Féin Assembly member Fra McCann and former party chairman Tom Hartley on the Falls Road. He was surrounded by children from the Beechmount Community Project where he worked. There is no suggestion that McCann or Hartley knew Liam Adams was a suspected paedophile. The previous year, Liam was photographed with children at Belfast’s St Patrick’s Day parade.

The Sunday Life recently republished one of those photographs – to the displeasure of copyright holder, Máirtín.

At the start of 2007 2006 [see updates], Áine Tyrell [née Adams] reactivated the case against her father Liam.

And, according to yesterday’s statement by Sinn Féin

Gerry Adams has stated he became aware in 1997 that Liam Adams was a member of Sinn Féin when he heard that his name might be going forward as a potential election candidate. The party President moved to ensure that Liam Adams did not go forward as a candidate and that he later left the party. Gerry Adams did this without involving the party locally or nationally.

After this time Liam Adams continued to mix in republican circles and attend some republican events. From 2000 and for a number of years he involved himself in localised party work in Belfast. Liam Adams did not re-apply to join the party as would be required by party procedures. He held a number of positions in a cumann in Lower Andersonstown, including chair for a short period before the cumann dissolved. [added emphasis]

The local organisation was unaware of the allegation against Liam Adams and the circumstances of his departure from Sinn Féin in Louth. Clearly his admission to the party in Belfast should have been avoided. Gerry Adams has informed the party that he was not aware of Liam Adams involvement in party work at this time.

Update More Timeline information here

Further Update Subsequent reports date Áine Tyrell’s reactivation of the case against her father to January 2006.

And the meetings between Áine Tyrell and Gerry Adams take place between late 2003 and late 2005.

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  • Paul

    Brilliant post pete

  • ranger1640

    More shifting stories on the Liam Adams departure form Sinn Fein, in the latest BBC NI news Gerry said that he got Liam to leave Sinn Fein.

    However, that is a shift form his first statement when he said, “I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Fein without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly.”

    So Gerry what is it, did he go or was he pushed.

    Another interesting aspect to this is, if Gerry got Liam to leave there must have been some type of conversation as to why he was being asked to leave Sinn Fein. During that conversation, we can only assume that Gerry told Liam that it was because he believed what Liam’s daughter had told him about the sexual abuse allegations.

    Why then did Liam feel the time was right to rejoin Sinn Fein again in Gerry’s west Belfast constituency???

  • TellMeMa

    //Why then did Liam feel the time was right to rejoin Sinn Fein again in Gerry’s west Belfast constituency???

    Perhaps one assumption is that Gerry does not have much power over what his brother can or cannot do.

    Why is it taking so long for the PSNI to get the papers for Liam’s arrest? By the time they are available, Liam may well have disappeared elsewhere.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    in all of this…with gerry saying he got liam to leave sinn fein…gerry should have been getting liam to stop hanging around and working with children. There is a possibility the liam may have sexually assulated other children during this time. gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

  • ranger1640

    TellMe: Are you saying Gerry is not omnipotent, and can be defied???

    Remember what used to happened to those who chose to defy the omnipotent one, they felt the wrath of the omnipotent one, well it seems not in Liam’s case.

  • Scaramoosh

    Why did Liam Adams feel the time was right to come back to Belfast, if the reason he crossed the border in the first place was to put himself beyond the pale.

    How did he manage to work at Clonard for so long – where were the RUC and the social services?; for it is certain that after the initial lalegations, that somebody so close to the big man would have been of great interest to many??

    Was Gerry turned because of Liam Adams?

  • ranger1640

    posted by Kathleen Collins
    in all of this…with gerry saying he got liam to leave sinn fein…gerry should have been getting liam to stop hanging around and working with children. There is a possibility the liam may have sexually assulated other children during this time. gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

    Spot on there Kathleen, that goes the heart of the matter.

  • Paul

    posted by Kathleen Collins
    in all of this…with gerry saying he got liam to leave sinn fein…gerry should have been getting liam to stop hanging around and working with children. There is a possibility the liam may have sexually assulated other children during this time. gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

    good post Kathleen what you said goes right to the of the whole matter.

  • TellMeMa

    Liam’s behaviour does not seem to be of any importance to the RUC either. It apparently knew about the allegations in 1987 but did not try to tell the Gardai in Donegal to do anything. And when Liam returned to NI it didn’t do anything either.

    Has anyone checked whether the RUC did actually know anything way back in 1987? (I suppose it will deny it whether it knew or not)

  • TellMeMa

    This from an article in the Irish Times in December 09:

    //Áine’s mother said the RUC seemed “more interested in recruiting her as an informer than dealing with Áine’s abusing father”.

    Maybe this should be added to your timeline, Pete.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1222/1224261109436.html

  • alf

    There is a possibility the liam may have sexually assulated other children during this time. gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

    Paul

    You can only dream/wish paul eh ?

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    has the psni asked anyone to come forward if they were sexually abused by liam adams. After all he did work with children and there is that possibilitiy.

  • alf

    if only kathy, you and paul should get your coats on, straight over to A/town and start enquiring, crack this one wide open for yourselves, bring Pete with sure, he could do with the time away from the puter

  • tacapall

    #

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    has the psni asked anyone to come forward if they were sexually abused by liam adams. After all he did work with children and there is that possibilitiy.
    Posted by Kathy C on Jan 16, 2010 @ 07:36 PM

    If there were, with all the publicity been given to these allegations, that they wouldn’t have already came forward. Do you think West Belfast is like America where if you challange the president, strange men will call at your door to intimidate you into shutting up.

  • alf

    she would love that to be the case, though im sure she just worried about the kids, is that it kathy ? its all about the kids with you ?

  • Mr Crowley

    she would love that to be the case, though im sure she just worried about the kids, is that it kathy ? its all about the kids with you ?
    Posted by alf on Jan 16, 2010 @ 07:51 PM

    Never did a topic, and the reaction of shinner drones like yourself to it, validate the following statement half as much as Liamgate has:

    Q. What’s the difference between an Adamsite and a computer?

    A. You can punch information into a computer.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Ranger, the other inconsistency in the statement you quote is that if Gerry didn’t tell people “why”, it implies that he told them something. Therefore Gerry is saying that he told people to get liam dumped out so his statement that he did it himself is a complete contradiction

  • wild turkey

    There is a possibility the liam may have sexually assulated other children during this time. gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

    Paul

    You can only dream/wish paul eh ?

    Posted by alf on Jan 16, 2010 @ 07:29 PM

    You can only dream/wish paul eh ?… over the years i have read many, and occassionally remarked on, a range of white trash comments on Slugger.

    but, and it really gives no pleasure in saying this.

    ‘You can only dream/wish paul eh ?’ is beyond doubt the most twisted, depraved and obscene exercises in inhumane political handjobbery i have yet to read here.

    and yes alf, at the end of the day, it is about the kids…. when it comes to the heady and dangerous collision of childish innocence and adult political/ideological imperative, i could lend you a dvd my kids have; The Boy in Striped Pajamas. but on the evidence to hand, you wouldn’t get it.

    if in the 2010 Slugger awards, Mick Fealty has a category for the ‘Marinana Trench of comments’ be assured your comment will be nominated… and for once, you will probabaly end up a winner.

  • ranger1640

    Lionel not sure if you are getting the jest of the post.

    I did not say Gerry had a conversation with anyone other than Liam.

    However, what I am asking is, in the conversation Gerry had with Liam, as he is now saying he asked Liam to leave Sinn Fein. Did Gerry tell Liam he wanted Liam to leave Sinn Fein because of the sex abuse allegations?

    And why did Liam feel it safe to return to Northern Ireland when he knew these allegations were still live, why did Liam take a job working with children in Louth and west Belfast, and take up a post with a west Belfast Sinn Fein constituency, again when the allegations were still live. Why did Gerry not speak to the Guarda and the Irish social services when he knew Liam was in the south and was working with youth groups and for Sinn Fein???

    If there are inconsistencies they are with Gerry and Sinn Fein. Both Gerry and Sinn Fein have done precious little for the victim, of other vulnerable children in Louth and west Belfast.

  • Well done Mr Baker this is a succinct account of the time line and shows the outstanding questions everyone needs answered.

    It is about children we should never forget that.

  • joeCanuck

    Ranger,
    That should have been “… gist of the post.”

    Regards,
    joe the pedant

  • Ingram

    Ding Ding

    Ingram

  • Perhaps we have all been wrong and the tight control we thought some people had over the organisation, was nothing more or less than the control most organisations have over membership, which is basically not a lot.

    I am trying to understand how it could have happened.

  • ranger1640

    Joe, I stand corrected thanks.

  • John O’Connell

    Clearly it is the case that Gerry Adams never ostracised his brother from the family and that he never believed Aine Tyrell. He is only saying he did so because he knows, from professional advice he’s been talking about getting over this issue, that he was supposed to believe the child.

    That’s another fault of his for the record, he’s hardened against his own niece and doesn’t care about her claims that she was abused.

  • Pete Baker

    pippakin

    Or Gerry’s claimed intervention amounted to telling Liam that his [political] work in Louth was done…

    ‘Back to Belfast, our kid.’

  • Pete Baker

    Did he say that though? I find it hard to believe he didnt know Liam was working in Belfast, but he may not have. If he knew, it suggests he had reason for thinking the whole thing had gone away and clearly he had no such reason. So what on earth was going on there. As a sister I know that a much loved brother can get away with a lot, but that much?

    Mr Crowley

    I have got myself into enough trouble for one night, suffice to say there was, in my opinion, quite possibly, too much allegiance to some ‘alleged’ religious ways for comfort.

  • jack

    Stand by!I hear legal firm Madden and Finucane have been burning the midnight oil in an effort to stifle a story that will rock SF.I believe that they have only had limited success in preventing the Tribune from naming SF personnel involved.

  • heamaisbharney

    jack,
    I see on politics.ie that there are more than one story appearing in the Tribune tomorrow’s Tribune about alleged abuse of people by Sinn fein and Ira members and another cover up by Sinn Fein. The post also says that solicitors have been brought in to try and stop the stories but to little avail. There is also a hint that the fabled ‘timeline’ will change again about Liam Adams.
    It doesn’t look to be getting any better for Gerry or Sinn Fein. I wonde how long the membership will put up with this charade from their leadership.

  • Gav_Belfast

    Not living there myself, but taking this increasingly disturbing saga as a benchmark, west Belfast seems like an awfully suffocating place.

    I suppose the electorate who feel that way, too, and want to change it (a bit anyway) can make their voices heard in 3 or 4 months’ time.

    Or is suffocation endemic and hypnotic?

  • jack

    #Yes indeed, how long will the already discredited Adams last? This cover up tactic appears to be a common trait in SF,Connor Murphy springs to mind in relation to the Paul Quinn murder.

  • Mr Crowley

    Stand by!I hear legal firm Madden and Finucane have been burning the midnight oil in an effort to stifle a story that will rock SF.I believe that they have only had limited success in preventing the Tribune from naming SF personnel involved.
    Posted by jack on Jan 16, 2010 @ 11:08 PM

    I wonder if it involves a mole or moles, not related by blood to Dear Leader, who may have been turned as a result of paedophillic proclivities.

    How many times must the can of worms be kicked before it spills?

  • We are indeed living in interesting times. I hope this report will shed some light on the child abuse allegations.

  • jack

    GAV BELFAST.Endemic yes and most likely incestuous too.SF (we ourselves alone) I think the all encompassing ‘we’ has become very narrow indeed.Of course the proclivity amongst SF supporters will be to defend them,especially those who have become members in recent years,republicans or not.Sooner or later they will catch up with the republicans who did support them.

  • jack

    MR CROWLEY.The answer my friend is in tomorrows Tribune.The answer is in tomorrows news.

  • Mr Crowley

    MR CROWLEY.The answer my friend is in tomorrows Tribune.The answer is in tomorrows news.
    Posted by jack on Jan 17, 2010 @ 12:49 AM

    I’ve already seen the front page http://election.ie/2010/01/the-sunday-leads-january-16th-2010/ but the ring extends well beyond Belfast. That being said, one can only hope that all will be exposed regardless of the efforts of their handlers. The dishonoured and betrayed deserve no less.

  • Mick Fealty

    MC,

    So far as I know, it has nothing to do with moles. Indeed that is the very least of Sinn Fein’s problems just now.

    The party has provided (in the form of a 2000 word response from Adams to the Trib’s 25 questions) more detail on Liam Adams, that was apparently not to hand when Mary Lou was giving press interviews yesterday.

    It seems he was in the party in Donegal and Dublin, and more importantly, this guy who had been drummed out of the party whilst in Dundalk ends up as a treasurer of a Belfast Cumman when he returns. < << So who in Sevastapol Street (who had to have known the name of the local ‘bookkeeper’) was keeping Gerry in the dark, whilst Gerry was keeping Arthur in the dark?

    This, I am afraid, has to be the point when plausible deniability breaks down. And that painted in corner is getting smaller and smaller by the minute…

    The stories that were the subject of the legal challenges yesterday, I understand, relate to how the party responded and how they handled victims in two other cases. And what those victims were permitted or rather not permitted to do.

    Noirin Hegarty’s editorial should be worth reading, not least since – I am told – it gives an insight into the struggle the paper has had to get these stories into the light of day fully intact.

  • Mr Crowley

    MC,
    So far as I know, it has nothing to do with moles. Indeed that is the very least of Sinn Fein’s problems just now.
    Posted by Mick Fealty on Jan 17, 2010 @ 01:15 AM

    That may well be true as far as the reporting is concerned but the comprimises of sex criminals sheltered and promoted by the PRM at the highest level has everything to do with moles, at the highest level. The British are neither stupid nor inneffective where counter-intelligence is concerned.
    The issue of sex crime coverup and the issue of compromise / betrayal within the PRM are inextricably linked.

  • Mick Fealty

    I’m not gainsaying that possibility. Although by its very nature must be held as conjecture (however much the party’s opponents dislike it).

    The story’s importance to me is that fact after fact that was served up as some kind of definitive account are proving partial and self serving: all of which slowly eats away at the party’s standing.

    I urge people to read the detail of the story before making further guesses. But, honestly, once people who previously kept quiet, start talking, I cannot say for sure where this ends up.

    After forty years of running a private army amidst a civilian population, my guess is it is not going to be pleasant for Sinn Fein in general, never mind Gerry Adams.

  • If the headlines are anything to go by S/F will be rocking on their heels from this.

    It may well be that the Brits infiltrated, they almost have no excuse not to have done so. It would have been so easy.

    W Belfast appears to have been some kind of mini empire. The poor inhabitants were damned if they did and damned if they didnt.

    Who said absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    And, after all this there is still the subject of child abuse.

  • heamaisbharney

    “After forty years of running a private army amidst a civilian population, my guess is it is not going to be pleasant for Sinn Fein in general, never mind Gerry Adams”
    Very much so, Mick, very much so and I think a sort of tipping point may have been reached with more people willing to speak out.

  • paul kielty

    Back on slugger after a long time.
    Not much changed! Mick fealty getting excited at the opportunity to attempt to ‘bash’ sinn fein. Nothing changes. A lifetime mission I suppose!
    Sad!!!
    Do you have any notion as to what this lurid, disgusting, leering chuckle shop is doing to the chances of a child, who was allegedly RAPED by her own father, is doing for her chances of some form of justice? For recognition of what was allegedly visited upon her?
    Nope you don’t care! Even if it ensures that the alleged attacker has absolutely no chance of a fair trial, and is thus set free!
    At least have the decency to give the alleged victim a chance in a court of law! These utterances do nothing more than inhibit her chances in court. Afterwards then commence your witch-hunt, but at least give the alleged victim a chance!!
    Be honest, both yourself and Suzanne Breen care nothing for this poor girl.
    Its all about attacking Adams, the definition of both your ‘careers’.
    Shameful

  • Mick Fealty

    Paul,

    Welcome back!!

    But really, you need to read the Tribune before you give away hostages to fortune like that. Have you not been reading our coverage of the Robinson affair??

    Also, you should back read on the Tyrell case. When that story was breaking I pointed out over and over that it depended on confidentiality for justice.

    That opportunity was lost when after 22 years of trying to get justice through internal channels she went to UTV to at least get the story out.

    I think you will find when you read those articles that this is not just about one ‘historic case’.

    I’m happy to let others decide whether this is all about ‘attacking Adams’ or not.

  • Paul

    gerry adams seems more concerned about the party then about vulnerable children.

    Paul

    You can only dream/wish paul eh ?
    Posted by alf on Jan 16, 2010 @ 07:29 PM

    I think sonny your comments were ill advised given whats about to further come out.

  • It appears to be about a great deal more than attacking Gerry Adams.

    Aine Tyrell waived her right to anonymity and from that moment the flood gates were bound to open.

    Liam Adams has always had a strong case for saying he would not get a fair trial. His brother, his father, the notoriety of the family, all gave him all the ammunition he needed.

    Im sure most people think the child abuse allegations are the most important, had it not been for a concerted effort to conceal and evade, that at least might have been in the open by now.

  • paul kielty

    Thank you.
    I’m a regular reader of the tribune for many years; although i’ll proudly admit that I have not spent a penny on it in almost all that time. My neighbour usually drops it in on a sunday night after he’s done! Its always nice to have your intelligence insulted on a sunday evening and still manage to find humour in it!!
    Mick, would you please use any influence available to your good self and get answers as to why it took 22 YEARS for this poor girl to even start on the road to justice? The outcome of which I unfortunately doubt, due mainly to Ms Suzanne Breen selfish crusade, and to a lesser extent, Mr Shane Harrison, public employee no-less..”..catholic bishops have resigned for less..” Excuse me!! As an employee of the BBC, he obviously has not read the ryan report! This is all to be expected in what passes for unchallenged, unelected political ‘comment’.
    Could you please start digging and find out how and why this girls complaint was ignored by the RUC? Could criminal action be taken against those officers who’s negligence could have righted this alleged injustice some 22 YEARS AGO!!!!
    Unfortunately mick, for yourselves, you will find that the nationalist/republican people have already decided that indeed IT IS ALL ABOUT ATTACKING ADAMS! If you spent any time in republican areas you would know this.
    What will come of this deplorable media debacle?
    Two things; Firstly, the fight for justice of a young woman thwarted, due to the fact that he cannot possibly recieve a fair trial now( well done suzanne and mick, shows were your real agenda is!)
    Secondly, a huge endorsement of Gerry Adams at the british GE in may!
    Well done!!

  • Mick Fealty

    Paul,

    That was yesterday’s defence. But let’s talk tomorrow Night.

  • Alias

    “The story’s importance to me is that fact after fact that was served up as some kind of definitive account are proving partial and self serving: all of which slowly eats away at the party’s standing.” – Mick Fealty

    Gerry Adams assumed that the media would not scrutinise his version of events with anything other than the token diligence needed to sustain the public’s faith in it. And for the most part, they did not. He let his guard down, and spewed out bullshit that was easily falsifiable, and a few persistent folks in the media duly falsified it.

    He also made a grave error of judgement in his haste to position himself on the side of the victim by declaring that he believed the veracity of her accusations. But in engaging in that politically correct PR, he severely impaired (perhaps fatally) the accused chance of getting a fair trial and the victim’s chance for justice. In addition, he left himself open to the charge that he facilitated the political career of someone that he believed to be a child molester, and failed to alert agencies that worked with children that they were employing someone who was not fit to work with children. In that regard, it doesn’t matter if the accused is actually guilty or not since he believed him to be guilty.

    In any normal democracy, that would be a resigning matter but Mr Adams is a protected species, and the British state always protects its security assets.

    “Be honest, both yourself and Suzanne Breen care nothing for this poor girl.” – paul kielty

    That is the ‘logic’ of the insane. Oddly enough, a lot of Shinners seem to be insane since a lot of them are but proffering this babble in varying states of distress.

    Any attempt to scrutinise the comments of the MLA and MP for west Belfast is proffered as evidence of a lack of concern for Ms Tyrell, as if such concern is best demonstrated by either fulsome agreement with the public statements of said MLA and MP or by ignoring such public statements. Surely, following this logic, said MLA and MP is responsible for creating these lamentable demonstrations by making statements that invite public scrutiny?

    Now, assuming that you are not insane, then it would appear the reason that you are so distressed is because such scrutiny has revealed that there are more holes in Gerry Adams’ story than there are in a pair of Irish Robinson’s fishnet tights. He has come out with more new fictional stories in the last two weeks than Poolbeg Press managed in the whole of 2009.

  • joeCanuck

    Mick,
    Commenting is now being blocked on 3 threads.
    I don’t know the Law over there, but would it be possible for a gag order to be placed on SOT and you would not be allowed to even tell us about the gag.
    Such nonsense has been allowed a few times in Canada.

  • ranger1640

    Gav_Belfast

    Not living there myself, but taking this increasingly disturbing saga as a benchmark, west Belfast seems like an awfully suffocating place.

    I suppose the electorate who feel that way, too, and want to change it (a bit anyway) can make their voices heard in 3 or 4 months’ time.

    Or is suffocation endemic and hypnotic?

    There exists in west Belfast a blind dogmatic compliance to Sinn Fein, with few descenting voices, and if a descenting voice does start to raise the volume they are not permitted to get too loud.

    Some time ago a contributor to a west Belfast publication named Squinter, asked was it time for Gerry to move on? The article was removed and Squinter was forced to make an apology. So All descenting views are swiftly extinguished.

    After 40 odd years of being conditioned to think and act in specific ways by Sinn Fein, west Belfast is like a well sedated patient.
    This is why there has been no demand from west Belfast,for more clarity form Sinn Fein. This form the area where Liam Adams was a youth worker.

    The inference being that the Sinn Fein iron fist in the velvet glove is being worn in that old fashioned Sinn Fein way.

  • tuatha

    How does GAdams’ position (straddling a barbed wire fence – uncomfortable for all but geldings)differ from that of the Bishops – knowing that child abuse was occurring but DOING SFA?
    And, like the bishops, surely GAdams was in the prime position of total power (but no responsibility), rather like the uncountable murders & atrocities in which he was complicit, despite the boilerplate “entirely separate & unrelated organisation” BS.

  • Ranger 1640

    It seems to me some of the residents of W Belfast may have been petrified, rather than sedated, when a journalist is forced to apologise for something and retract, unless it was factually wrong, there are serious questions to answer on that alone.

    It is hard to think there was no security infiltration, but if we remember those days, we know it was very much IRA law that ruled on those streets.

    Robert McCartney was murdered in front of a dozen witnesses. The area was bleached clean and the witnesses disappeared, and this in a bar I had enjoyed drinking in!

    It was bad for business, bad for democracy and very, very bad for the victims.

  • TellMeMa

    “the prime position of total power”

    “I believe that Gerry Adams has hand picked most, if not all, of the reps…”

    I get the feeling that a lot of Sluggerites think that Gerry Adams is all-knowing, all-powerful – omnipotent.

  • Tellmema

    Omnipotent? No, but he may have thought so. It also appears that some of his followers may have been blinded by the light. Or perhaps, have taken advantage of the dark.

  • TellMeMa

    Pippakin:
    The second quote was from one of your posts from another thread.

  • tellmema

    You are referring to “I believe that GA has hand picked most, if not all, of the reps”

    And, I do. I also believe that some of the people of W Belfast may have been petrified, rather than sedated.

    I see no inconsistency here. In fact I cannot think of any other explanation.

    Sorry its taken a while for me to reply, dealing with yet another mouse problem here. Damn lazy cats!

    I have no axe to grind where GA is concerned. I am not sure what I would have done if any member of my family was accused of child abuse. I know I could not have let them continue to work with children, but would I ostracise them. I doubt I would.

    The fresh accusations today lead ever closer to the mini empire I mentioned in another thread.

  • jack

    Pippakin, yes spot on .The ‘we’ in SF as I have said has become very narrow

  • Jack

    Agreed. And would the last one to leave the W Belfast offices close the door quietly.

    It looks as though Martin McGuinness is the only hope for S/F recovery. I hope he has no similar, or indeed any, skeletons in his closet.

  • TellMeMa

    //I hope he has no similar, or indeed any, skeletons in his closet.

    Pippakin: I’m afraid you are out of luck. A couple of years ago McGuinness’s second cousin twice removed was charged with assault. This was headlined in Slugger.

    Of course it was Martin’s fault.

  • Tellmema

    Er,well, I dont like to brag, but I do have relatives who have been in trouble with the police (no names, no pack drill). It is not by itself something that should ruin a career.

    Looking at the Brits, they have a politician called Jack Straw, quite senior I believe. He has a son, who in his dissolute youth bragged of the drugs he could get hold of, and a brother who was charged with a sexual assault. It evidently did Jack Straw no harm.

    I blame no one for their relatives, only how we handle them.

  • jack

    Much Bigger cover up in South Armagh RE the murder of Paul Quinn both Adams and Murphy need to look at this again.

  • TellMeMa

    You missed my point Pippakin. It should never have appeared in Slugger which is a politics blog.

    Unfortunately, for some Slugger contributors allegations about distant relatives (or acquaintances or friends) should reflect upon political leaders (particularly those in SF)

  • alf

    this sites admin is a joke, a second rate excuse for real discussion imo, close down the comments on three dup threads, (thus blaming it on lack of resources which itself is second rate) to push your preferred agenda up the table (and it is your preferred agenda, you only have to look at your lopsided frequency of commenting),

  • alf

    Also if it is as you say (a resources problem) maybe you should spend less time with youself and breens crusade and more time keeping this mess of a site in check !

  • jack

    TellMeMa.Unfortunately it could depend on who your Ma was whether or not, you could tell your Ma or not.

  • Tellmema

    Oh but it is about politics. Politics is a dirty business and everything relating to a politician is fair game, thats the truth.

    And a very good thing too. We are looking right now at what happens when something is ‘covered up’. Of course it eventually comes out and the stench of hypocrisy and rot is far worse than an open admission of this or that thing happened would have been.

  • Paddy

    Gerry could have got Liam expelled from Sinn Fein on a trumped up charge of the type used against potential O’Bradaigh supporters prior to the Northenr takeover. That would have left a paper trail.

    If Gerry wanted to copper fasten Sinn Fein’s door against Liam, he should have made a paper trail. IRA middle rankers would have been happy to get the relevant Sinn Fein sections/cumainn etc to do Gerry’s bidding.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi alf,

    There have been several pages of responses since you commented on what I said…asking if any other victims of liam adams has come forward.

    “she (kathy) would love that to be the case, though im sure she just worried about the kids, is that it kathy ? its all about the kids with you?

    Posted by alf on Jan 16, 2010 @ 07:51 PM

    actually…it is about the children. Much has been made about to go or not to go to the RUC (police) at the time and now even the psni. However, the republican community had a way of handling child rapist at this time…and it was not to say you’re estsranged and then the rapist works in the president of sinn fein’s backyard and the president says he didn’t know his brother was there working with children. Republican girls who dated british soldiers…had their hair chopped off and they were tarred and feathers…(as I understand it…that was martin mcguinness doing). Yet the brother of the sinn fein president rapes his daughter…and gerry adams tells his brother to leave the party. If I believed my brother had rapped his daughter…I wouldn’t be telling him to leave the party….I would go over and try to have it that he would be singing with the hens…rather than hangin with the guys…..

  • Pete Baker

    I’ve updated the timeline to note uncertainty about the date of Liam Adams’ second wedding.

  • Paddy

    1993 1994-96 – [Updated] Around this time Gerry Adams is photographed with Joe Cahill and others at Liam Adams’ second wedding in Dundalk.

    Joe Cahill in on this too? And Gerry never mentioned Liam’s alleged form to his old mate Joe, whose families were close friends with one another ever since Gerry Sr and Joe were young men chasing “skirt” together.

    Dundalk was Ireland’s biggest town (not city), so lots of wild kids there to be abused. Let’s also remember that Sinn Fein concentrate their electoral efforts where the poor, the vulnerable and the marginalised are. Lots more abuse skeletons in the Provo cupboard methinks.

  • sluggisht

    Dundalk was Ireland’s biggest town (not city), so lots of wild kids there to be abused. Let’s also remember that Sinn Fein concentrate their electoral efforts where the poor, the vulnerable and the marginalised are. Lots more abuse skeletons in the Provo cupboard methinks.
    _________________________________________________

    Paddy, I was thinking something similar about the Meehan case, whose father was in jail and mother was dead, a lot of children whose parent/s were in jail were made more vulnerable by that absence; shifted to relatives or others for temporary care, suddenly single (and also vulnerable) parents preyed upon for access to their children, combined with the claustrophobic world of republicanism would mean it’s not just a skeleton in the closet but a more likely a mass grave.

  • tacapall

    #

    this sites admin is a joke, a second rate excuse for real discussion imo, close down the comments on three dup threads, (thus blaming it on lack of resources which itself is second rate) to push your preferred agenda up the table (and it is your preferred agenda, you only have to look at your lopsided frequency of commenting),
    Posted by alf on Jan 17, 2010 @ 01:26 PM

    Have to agree with you here ALF any comments connecting Unionism and the present Unionist leadership to loyalist paramilitaries is usually closed or pushed down the table.