#Brexit: A Revolution Drifting Towards Failure

It is a matter of historical fact that most attempted revolutions fail. Sometimes the ancient regime reasserts itself in a counter-revolution. In other cases, the revolution clears away a creaking old order only to be itself swept away by a third force. The two most significant revolutions of the 20th Century were of the latter type: the double revolutions in Russia in 1917 and Iran in 1978-9.

It is worth giving this preamble as Brexit now looks like a revolution doomed to failure: that is not to say it will not happen, perhaps even on schedule in March 2019, but if it does, it seems fated destroy its architects in the process.

It was always an unlikely candidate for success. Revolutions are not, as a rule, led by coalitions of the elderly and the least able. Moreover, as in 1917 Petrograd or 1978 Tehran, the revolutionaries barely seem to comprehend the forces that propelled them to success. As in both those cases, a heady cocktail of frustration, inequality, and a desire to dismantle traditional power structures sits strangely juxtaposed with intense nationalist sentiment. Like those fulcrums of history, this revolution was powered by contradictory demands. The millions who delivered the vote to Leave mostly have a very different vision of Brexit than their political leadership, and neither vision is remotely deliverable.

Whatever the plebeian element of Brexiteer opinion wishes, a country like Britain, whose prosperity has been based – for nearly two centuries – on international openness can only slam shut the drawbridge to the rest of the world with unacceptable damage. Still, such an outcome would be achievable at a cost.

The world the patrician Brexiteers fantasise about, the Empire 2.0 of British-led global deregulation, is simply not deliverable. Even beyond their over-estimate of British power, the world has changed in the past decade, and the global political growth sectors, from Pennsylvania to the Philippines, are security and nationalism, not free trade and libertarianism. This is, of course, a major reason why the Brexiteers won the referendum in the first place.

The raft of position papers published in recent weeks by HMG is weak. On the three ‘key issues’ that must be resolved first (the UK having yielded to EU demands on sequencing), the UK has not even published a paper on a final financial settlement or residual rights of citizens, while that on Northern Ireland is riddled with wishful thinking.

The press sentiment on both sides of the Channel has turned negative. The Spectator’s editorial this week calls on the UK government to make plans for a no-deal crash Brexit. A senior Sky News correspondent has opined bluntly that Brexit talks cannot succeed. In Germany, the press has moved beyond incredulity at British incompetence into outright ridicule (see the Süddeutsche in English or Germany’s equivalent of the BBC World Service in German).

It strikes me that the next six weeks are so are quite risky for the UK as a country. The perception of ridiculousness internationally is so bad that markets and international business may lose confidence that this is a credibly run country. This year’s Tory Party Conference is a moment of acute danger. With a leadership election in the next two years more than possible, top Tories will be making speeches, and commitments, with their eye primarily on London press headlines, rather than board meetings and foreign ministries internationally.

Helped by Mark Carney’s adrenaline shot of credit last summer, the dire pre-Referendum economic warnings of Remainers started to look like crying wolf. In recent months, however, against a worldwide upward trend, UK growth has slowed to the lowest of any EU or OECD economy, and Sterling has started sliding against the Euro again. Analysts have again become bearish on the UK. There are a number of major structural problems with the UK economy: the most worrying of these being a decades-old and very serious balance of payments problem, high and rising levels of personal debt, poor productivity, and overvalued homes. If the pound continues to slip, for example, that is quite a toxic cocktail.

In terms of pure politics, any serious economic stutter will shatter the credibility of Tory Brexiteers. They may continue to be in power for a while, and may even deliver Brexit on schedule in March 2019. But like the Kerensky government’s pursuit of the war in the summer of 1917, it will simply make their eventual collapse all the more implosive.

So if this strange revolution of the least revolutionary is botched, who fills the vacuum? It’s far too early to tell.

My instinct is that there is limited short-term potential for the populist right in a post-Brexit UK. In winning the Brexit referendum, it achieved what had been its key goal for a quarter of a century: if Brexit is a failure, so is the right. The populist right may well come back in 5, 10, or 15 years’ time, but it will not step into a post-Brexit credibility vacuum.

If Brexit collapses and the UK does remain in the EU, I’d imagine a new electoral coalition of the Tory right and some of UKIP’s footsoldiers will become a significant force. For Brexit to collapse, however, it will have to go badly wrong in a way that significantly shifts public opinion in the next 18 months. Not only that, but a bigger UKIP would also be a broader UKIP, which to succeed would have to accommodate culturally liberal Brexiteers and probably at the same time promise meaningful economic change to working-class voters. A party of that uneasy coalition would not only have some tempting contradictory rough edges to attack in a General Election, but would have to govern for some time while making a second attempt at Brexit. It’s a tall order.

The old cross-party establishment of liberals looks utterly bewildered. Having set the agenda in the UK for most of the period since Disraeli was Prime Minister, it seems incapable of carrying out guerrilla war from the fringes. The next two years may teach it to – the Labour Remainers seem to have won a significant internal battle recently. But that would have been impossible without the strong Remain tilt of most of Corbyn’s allies, if not the Labour leader himself. As of now, of its own strength, the old establishment seems unable to imagine how to attempt a counter-revolution, let alone deliver one.

That seems to leave first dibs to setting the UK’s future direction in the hands of the radical left – and I say that as someone who is by no means a worshipper of the Cult of St Jeremy. It currently has the momentum (pun intended) and has played a blinder on Brexit politics and more generally over the past two years. It is also now utterly dominant within the Labour Party. Even if a centre-left figure like Sadiq Khan or Andy Burnham emerged as Corbyn’s successor, they will be will be tacking rather harder to port than they would have imagined a year ago.

The left also has demographics and the structure of the British economy on its side: Labour didn’t do well because of a surge of liberal students, an inaccurate myth the right has consoled itself with since the election, but won handsomely among all age groups under 45, including people with mortgages and kids at school. Corbyn brought young working-class voters out in numbers not seen for a generation.

More than that, the vast bulk of Middle England’s younger generation is caught in difficult thickets of insecure employment, even in ‘good’ jobs, and exorbitant house prices or galloping rents that make it impossible to save for a deposit. Both the liberal establishment and the right worked together to create an economy that cut a generation adrift. With the under 45s mostly defiantly hostile to Brexit and vulnerable to any downturn it might provoke – or be blamed on provoking – the big question might be whether the next phase in Britain’s political history is as a North European Social Democracy within the EU or with a sort of Socialism in one country not seen in modern times.

The left too, however, has its contradictions to manage. Corbyn has sensibly steered away from addressing identity politics issues that his most devoted supporters obsess about. Yet he cannot ultimately avoid them as a Prime Minister in waiting. Underneath the crisis in Western liberalism is its starry-eyed optimism about globalism and multi-culturalism that seems a long way from the reality of fascism and fundamentalist Islam resurgent alike and people being locked out of home ownership by middle-class Chinese buying properties online from the other end of the world for investment. The left, like the liberals, is ideologically locked into a universalist progressive humanism that seems increasingly at variance with the real world.

The old order seems doomed, but there is no obvious midwife of a new order. We are sailing in uncharted waters. Who in Petrograd could have imagined, as a baby democracy emerged in the thaw of 1917, that by the time the winter snows came again that the arcane, irrelevant, Bolsheviks would be in charge and would stay in charge for more than seven decades?

  • John Devane

    Vindication as in trying to escape blame with good conduct? Interesting take on those that support Leave.

    Good manners should never be confused with compliance and full agreement. You’ve seriously missed the point

    I argue that it those that chose to Remain are guilty of wishing away the burden of looking after their own nation and people.

    You internationalism therefore believes in the demise of the nation state. It’s a misguided misinterpretation. Internationalism means cooperation between nation states; not their demise.

    The defence of the EU open borders policy is exactly why Brexit won.

    No one is looking for vindication from Kevin Breslin. At least you’re more aware your pro EU views have diametrically opposed ones, even if you disagree with them for now

    NI forgiveness? It doesn’t speak with one voice. Whilst it’s obvious the border has been an issue since Partition, blaming the UK electorate for voting to leave the EU doesn’t make it a valid criticism. Yes the leave vote has consequences. It’s how they are to be dealt with that matters because there’s no undoing Brexit. There’s no second Referendum so best to move on

    Btw ‘ beg to differ’ is just a polite way of saying one disagrees with someone. Manners maketh the man

  • Kevin Breslin

    Eventually it will become clear to Brexiteers that this instinct of blaming others for their own problems doesn’t stop with Brexit.

    Even if Brexiteers say that this “British independence from Brussels” means that the United Kingdom can rely on itself and adopt a “buck stops with us” attitude. …

    No one is buying in. Absolutely No one is buying in.

    Yet another empty platitude to lie to oneself. ~~~ Someone else has to jump to responsibility, magical trading partners from Australia, our friends in America, hard working migrants who we choose to come in here, “our brave men and women overseas” … blah, blah, blah …. anyone but the politicians romanticizing that the Union flag will wipe away all tears.

    A Brexiteer with nothing to complain about has probably abandoned Brexit.

    The European Union is not to blame for Britain’s apathy and negligence.

    Those on the Leave side of the debate are hardly stewards of some new British creation, but demagogues looking for scapegoats.

    There’s plenty of undoing Brexit, because there’s been plenty of undoing with Brexit. The people are more important than any idea or any political choice.

  • John Devane

    The blame game is not confined to one side. Besides we are after all leaving the EEC / EU after more than four decades so it would be fair to say the electorate were more than aware of what they chose to leave

    The assertion that no one is buying into UK Independence is a demonstrably false one. 17.4 million, the voting majority, says otherwise

    A union flag no more than an EU one will wipe away trade deal issues. The current negotiations are based on the mandate to leave. Both parties know it. Playing the blame game looking for scapegoats can equally be applied to the EU negotiators. Does the EU really want a mutually advantageous trade deal with the UK or punish it for leaving? The jury is out on that one. We won’t know until the end

    Undoing Brexit. How?

  • Kevin Breslin

    Undoing Brexit from realizing those who promised the better alternative and their supporters just made things worse and were unwilling to even make their own aspirations work.

    Yes European Union has had people who have restrained from their better angels, but with Brexit all I can see are people who’ve let their own personal demons get the better of themselves.

    Such Self-absorption will ensure the UK devolves into a worst state than it was before joining the EU.

    So yes John, when reality strikes the British public will consider other options than the one nation Brexit movement you are terribly fond of, (but no one actually works for).

    What was done by the will of the people can be undone by the will of the people. It’s very simple. Already there are many who want that reversal in large numbers in the UK.

    To me and the Origional Post writer It is a revolution drifting towards failure … so I guess the will of the people right now is just Failure.

  • Kevin Breslin
  • John Devane

    The choice to leave the EU does present its own issues and consequences both politically and economically. Never denied it. The truth is the same applies to a decision to Remain, if they had won. Naturally you disagree yet you may at least consider an unreformed EU hell-bent on political federal union was always likely to see the UK depart at some point

    Your pessimistic outlook for the UK post Brexit is no doubt shared by the LibDems yet not it would seem by the IMF. The Brexit vote was the result of almost a decade of below average incomes since the financial crisis, which bred hostility towards elites, globalisation, EU and unchecked immigration

    The negotiations ref the Irish border have not yet concluded so it’s premature to say they’re a shambles

    The skill gaps and economic woes of the UK need to be addressed. The EU unfortunately is not the panacea you claim otherwise surely they’d be close to resolution now

  • Kevin Breslin

    Financial crisises won’t end over Brexit
    Hostility towards elites won’t end over Brexit
    Globalisation won’t end over Brexit
    “Unchecked immigration” won’t end over Brexit
    The EU won’t end over Brexit

    Maybe instead of thinking Brexit is a panacea for any of the problems the UK has, they put their faith in people and do some of the heavy lifting themselves. Where I come from, it’s clear the EU has done heavy lifting already.

    I’m sorry “better to blame” acceptable minority targets and people you will never see in person.

    I don’t believe the UK is going to reform itself with Brexit to become a better nation, people are too addicted to the blame culture and the jingo juice.

    All that hard work blaming migrants has been in vain in my opinion.

    The skills gaps were self-inflicted.

    The need for migrants to fill those skills (and wills) gaps were self-inflicted

    The inability of border officers to check for criminals was self-inflicted as you can deport EU criminals.

    The financial crisis contagion within the UK was self-inflicted.
    Globalization was self-inflicted, and greater inflicted on the UK by the British Empire. (After the Romans left UK had the choice to be isolated)

    And I’m sorry but with that Brexit referendum result, the chaos on the Irish border was not only self-inflicted but willingly consented to.

    When you leave a common market and customs union, these things happen, not that deals any kind of blow to migration, elites or globalization at the end of the day.

    Diddo the damage that Brexit risks doing to current UK businesses and families … it’s not some laser guided policy bringing rainbows to those who believe in Britain.

    No, I think those who support Brexit …
    Like Globalization when it suits them
    Like Elites when it suits them
    Like Migration when it suits them
    Even Like Financial crisises and Unchecked Migration because it gives them something to complain about.

    What they don’t like is the shame of the UK not being that “big nation” it once was, and take no responsibility for building a better nation themselves.

    To me it seems Brexit is Petty Resentment masked as a Revolution.

    The UK isn’t exceptional any more, and as far as I am concerned and many other people are concerned there’s nothing exceptional about those in politics who campaigned for Brexit and championed it.

  • John Devane

    Your response is so laced with your anti British chip on your shoulder attitude it’s laughable….. you simply cannot respond rationally without descending into pantomime villain mode where you of course are the everlasting victim

    Financial crises won’t end remaining in the EU. Infact they are guaranteed for the PIIGS member states without full fiscal union for the Eurozone. Good luck with that one

    Your Remoaner case for remaining an EU member have been thoroughly rejected. I see little point in regurgitating the same pre Referendum arguments

    The shame of the UK not being a big nation? Big enough to notice its absence when the EU budget has to be paid for

    And absolutely nothing exceptional about the pro EU ‘ snouts in the trough ‘ politicians…..a far more accurate statement

  • Kevin Breslin

    To me it seems Brexit is Petty Resentment masked as a Revolution.
    Having seen the birth and gestation of a real revolution of the Northern Ireland peace process, Brexit is just a delusional belief in hands off optimism.

    Being the son of a woman who set up a business in an area deprived of inward investment before the UK and Ireland joined the EEC, before free movement and tariff removals, the EU did achieve a lot that the British government and indeed the British people were unwilling to do alone.

    Growing across Europe helped said company grow across the world.

    Am I to believe instead a UK government who believes deportations lead to pay rises and having divergent regulations, customs and tariffs is going to make life easier for UK entrepreneurs.

    I really do not think so when such a party is run by old money establishment wealth and Fleet Street demagogues. Real businesses are better off out of Britain and its attempt at Northern Ireland version 2, where the few haves divide and conquer the have nots with “them and us” tribalism.

    All Brexit as a movement has done is initiate a closing of minds for leavers and a false solice that somehow the state or the people would care more for each other because of a common hatred of the EU among leavers.

    I’ve seen no evidence that it works.

    The EU had fantastically achieved the Opening trade, reducing red tape, ending discrimination, level playing feild … Naturally there were winners and losers and some losers like a certain commodity broker who turned to politics couldn’t take the fact he was probably just bad at his day job. All for free markets until said markets cost him his job.

    The EU budget gap will be filled long before the UK pays the interest on the loan this government took out to pay for a Brexit budget. It’s not something the EU is worried over, less money just means less favours, messing up the Irish border means less favours, abusing EU nationals means less favours.

    It’s not leverage to any of those 27 proud European nations, it’s desperation from a dying Brexit Britain lamenting the dimming of its light in this post-British indeed post-European world.

    It’s such a shame none of those 27 nations seem to have the same unearned entitlement complex as those who sold the Vote Leave lies

    Your reflection of the EU just comes across as what I think those Empire 2.0 lovers in the UK wishes to acomplish but with no democratic input whatsoever from foreigners.

  • John Devane

    Yes the NI peace process was and is a welcome revelation. The contacts built up between the UK/Ireland govts, in no small part due to EEC / EU business, helped build a trust that enabled the peace process. Brexit may risk these relationships but that is not an argument against it. The UK government has no choice than obey the mandate to leave. EU and UK relations were never at ease and with polar opposite objectives always likely to be torn asunder; at least in the rejection of political federal union

  • Kevin Breslin

    Sorry but the UK was at ease when it joined the EEC, and 48% voted Remain. If the UK and EU/EEC are polar opposites then by the same logic so is the UK and Ireland. So are England and Scotland.

    It’s not languague or history or culture or identity holding the UK together, it’s not one flag or one common set of beliefs.

    The only thing making the UK work is its workers, the only thing bringing Brits together is mere proximity on an island, in the same way Ireland has.

    The Union flag is nothing but borrowed crosses from European wars, the English language just distorted German, the pound sign and imperial measurements from France, with old pound sign borrowed from a French L for livre. You don’t like outsiders but you love to travel, that’s just as shallow and conceited as people across the continent have been, yet you need to make compromises. Even your own Act of Union

    Indeed the European Union as far as I’m concerned is the only real political idea from Britain that has any impact on the continent bar the European Court of Justice. It has been manufactured by Brits for Brits and now that the UK is leaving it will only get what others are willing to give it. The crumbs from the table.

    The Brits have been connected politically, economically, socially, scientifically, geographically and idealistically to Europe and the concept of European unity for millennia.

    Brexit is no shield against Europe, to me it just seems like a distorted mirror. Let’s you lie to yourself but shows no false image to those from outside of Britain looking in.

  • John Devane

    Was at ease? Was it? How? And a minority voted to Remain so your point is?

    Your comparisons are a logical fallacy.

    So workers hold the UK nation state together. Does this not hold true for other nation states too or have you just singled out the UK?

    Deconstructing the history and origins of the UK state as you have attempted is fascinating if you have a comic strip view of history

    More of your false assumptions about disliking foreigners is just you arguing with yourself again. Too sad

    The UK will continue to have close ties with Europe without being subjected to the EU federal union dream. A most satisfactory outcome

  • Kevin Breslin

    Give it up with this federal union dream, nonsence. Many Brits agree, others oppose. That’s the same with 27 other nations and the EU which works for those 27 nations works for that.

    Already the negotiations with Brexit are failing, it seems Boris Johnson has already given up on them and is doing everything he can to get sacked. Farage’s response to “taking his country back” is to emigrate. Aaron Banks seems annoyed that people seem to believe black people have souls and the U.K. government is struggling to offer the world anything but a headache.

    And what is it all for? One of say fifty or so generic English speaking nations with the lowest levels of self-sufficiency in the world, highest levels of personal debt and reliant on attracting top quality migrants just to get by having a hissy fit because it’s no longer special any more. The U.K. is similar to the Premier League, you get the odd Hary Kane but foreigners do all the hard work.

    The Brexiteers seem to be using a “federal union” which the EU isn’t pushing as an excuse for why the UK is neglected. All the Brexiteer politicans including Skinner seem to be Tory elites, former Tory elites or useless backbenchers.

    Frankly none will break a nail to reform Britain, and though I look at this from outside Britain it would seem none of the 17 million GB leavers or so would break a nail to deliver a more economically viable Britain within its coastlines.

    No nation on the planet wants British exceptionalism and its endless list of gripes and grumbles in exchange for goods and services.

    Good luck actually making Brexit work, it looks designed to fail.

  • John Devane

    Your views were rejected in the referendem. The LibDems tried to cash in on Brexit disaffection. They failed too.

    Brexit is going ahead like it or not. Your refusal to countenance the real federal ambitions of the EU is symptomatic of the whole Remain cause. Living in denial

  • Kevin Breslin

    I couldn’t care less if my views are reflective of the minority who voted Leave but a much smaller minority who voted Remain. That’s just individuality.
    The Lib Dems have cashed in on Brexit dissatisfaction they gained votes and seats. It was UKIP who lost hundreds of council seats.

    And why exactly is there Brexit dissatisfaction among Brexiteers especially. I believe it’s because it doesn’t work as advertised, perhaps there isn’t enough people who can immigrate into the UK to make it work as advertised.

  • John Devane

    The minority that voted Leave? You really do live in that big river in Africa. So very sad. Total nonsense total denial. You lost. What part of a democratic vote do you fail to understand? Truly pathetic

    UKIP won 4 milion votes. Scots NATS 1.5 million. Work it out

    Immigration has never seen such high numbers. You are beyond pathetic. You are an EU loyalist. I doubt you care one iota about the nation state

  • John Devane

    Federal dream nonsense? Really? Have you ignored junkers speech? Obviously

  • Kevin Breslin

    Do some mathematics.

    Population of the United Kingdom = 65,788,574
    Majority of the United Kingdom > 32894287
    Minority of the United Kingdom < 32894287

    17,410,742 < 32894287

    Minority of the United Kingdom voted Leave … not like they are going to unite together and actually make Brexit work.

    No one can, No 65,788,574 can … it was falsely advertised.

    P.S There's only 15,000 EU nationals in Reading, out of 320,000 or so, of which 2000 are Irish, and around 2000 British locals leave the area every year.

    Basically you can take your makey upy immigration fears to another site.

    The Daily Express sob story doesn't impress me at this stage.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Who cares about Juncker … it’s you who wants to see him as a dictator which he isn’t.

    “I am very encouraged to see so many people engage in the debate about the future of the European Union, which the Commission launched on 1 March 2017 with our White Paper. We have seen many different views expressed already and a strong positive momentum driving us forward. I will outline my vision in September but in reality Europe’s future will be of your design. It is you writing the history books of tomorrow. So continue to engage and make your voices heard!”

    From the man himself.

  • John Devane

    You mean your LibDem maths . . Like I said you’re in total denial.

    Go to another site? You really can’t countenance reasoned argument. Very very sad

  • John Devane

    ‘from the man himself’ sums your precious self regard perfectly. Any criticism of your beloved EU is met with your usual false flags where you argue with yourself, contortionist maths to make out what exactly…… Remain won?…..you really are blinkered

  • Kevin Breslin

    I have every right to tell Brexiteers that two plus two is four not five.

    I’m afraid your argument was never “reasoned”.

    Try Guido, they will countenance any sob story you want to hear. May I suggest starting with “Immigrants ate my hamster”?

  • Kevin Breslin

    You aren’t really objectively criticising the EU, you are repeating a sob story over and over again.
    The fact I quoted the actual Jean Claude Juncker rather than the demon in your head seems to have struck a nerve.
    It wasn’t the EU killing British politicans or British nationalist mobs starting racist and sectarian violence. Brits who lean towards Brexit need to learn self control and inner peace.

  • John Devane

    With your maths referendums are never lost for you……counting the non votes…..tut tut…….

  • John Devane

    Juncker. The man you couldn’t care less for but now quote you mean? Make your mind up.

    Juncker is a federalist. He’d be very much at home with the LibDems

  • Kevin Breslin

    I don’t care about Juncker, never met the man in my life.

    Nor have I ever met Thresea May, Leo Varadkar, Arlene Foster or Nigel Farage in my life in person.

    It is clear you are getting oversentive about someone who has next to no impact on either of our lives.

    Your sob story about European federalism is another makey upy problem just like migration. Something that doesn’t exist but you insist in creating a fuss over.

    You need to hold John Devane responsible for the problems of John Devane, you are the despot of your own bad feelings.

  • John Devane

    It’s not a requirement for you to meet Junker in person in order to selectively quote him. Perhaps you missed his federal union speech…..one EU president, Euro army, EU controlled single economic policy

  • Kevin Breslin

    You know I might meet him in person, but Juncker like it or not is a democrat. He’s never threatened to don khakis and grab a riffle to impose a federal Europe, even if Europeans voted for it and the politicians were stalling it.

    Juncker has said it’s for the people to decide Europe’s future, and for being a member of the European People’s Party I respect that he’s true that sentiment.

    I respect those who don’t see other people than their own nationality as sub-human. Misantropy, entitlement, greed, vindictiveness and incompetence are only going to do to Brexit Britain what these same sentiments did to Northern Ireland … lead to violence.

    Aggression and Anger are fine, but Brexit seems to be driven entirely by pure hatred.

  • John Devane

    The EPP manifesto advocates EU political union. Brexit is a legitimate democratic vote against it. No rifles required. The UK will leave this federal EU just in time

    Juncker has stated his belief in a federal EU future…..one that you share……so much for Irish Independence

    View others as sub human…..and who might they be? Those that oppose your EU fantasy no doubt

    Brexit driven by pure hatred?….more like you are Kevin. One only has to view your posts to realise something is seriously amiss

  • Kevin Breslin

    Are you going to don khakis, grab a riffle and shoot Jean Claude Juncker or other EEP politican who have stood on a combined platform of nation state democracy and more importantly citizen’s democracy?

    I get it that Brexit means different things to different people, to some it may mean much of the status quo remains after binning 41 years of international agreements. To others being free from the EU means bizarrely that the UK can be the EU’s rule maker even.

    I’m just off an arguement with someone on Twitter who told me that leaving the EU means decentralisation of power. That regions like the North of England, Wales, Cornwall, Midlands can all have a bigger say in governing themselves away from a London-centric England.

    There is a name for that, it’s called federalism.

    It’s the Leave liars who wish Westminster to speak for all of the U.K., but frankly all that has done is lead to bitter nationalism and unionism across GB and NI.

    Brexit will be for the few not the many as that is how British democracy has operated for centuries, people see in the EU the problems that they are afraid to face up to in GB.

  • John Devane

    Your obsession with fantasy paramilitary opposition to EU membership is an attempt at what exactly?

    That the 17.4 million voting majority just didn’t buy into Junkers federal dream and the EU drive to crush the independence of the nation state is their perogative not yours. Hence the Referendum on this very issue. The choice made is Leave

    Your Twitter debate doesn’t alter the fact the UK is a unitary state not a federal one. So your point is?

    Westminster speaking for the UK as per the terms of the EU referendum; In or Out remember? You castigate the Referendum decision to leave yet you’d eulogise it if Remain had won. Hypocrisy

    Leaving the EU will not in itself resolve the inequities of the EU or the UK. To claim Brexit as a panacea for UK society is a gross misreading why the majority voted to leave the EU. The EU doesn’t have the answers. It’s part of the problem.

  • Kevin Breslin

    So Jo Cox was killed by a ghost?

    Those right wing fantatics living the “independence” dream (I laugh because I’ve never seen any group more needy than Brexiteers), who attack migrants because they think it frees up jobs and houses, who attack pro-EU people because they think a hive-mind would mean everyone in Britain will start to love one another.

    Seriously, any excuse for violence … Muslims, Migrants, Politicans with opposing points of views … anything to appease their narcissism and delusions.

    You whinge about Federalism, yet it seems the UK may need it.

    So having local rule close to the people i.e. federalism is the most nasty undemocratic thing is the world.

    Perhaps leavers prefer the alternative to federalism offered by those who prefer an 18th Century vision of Britain like Johnson and Rees-Moog … Feudalism.

    Nothing says “independence” than blind obedience to rich British masters of the land they now own.

    I can just imagine how many Irish want to jump aboard that in the name of common geography, politics and culture … I mean support Feudalism and you get an Identity.

    It may seem bizarre to you but Leavers do not have a monopoly on democracy and then claim those who offer alternative visions to their own are anti-democratic. The referendum is not the last vote in the UK, and the last say on either Brexit or Europe. It won’t be until fascists, who do lean to national isolationism, try to end it.

    Trying to bundle everyone in the world into some anti-EU British jingo-train is fascism, respect the fact that other nations, and indeed the majority of your own nation doesn’t think like you lot.

    People weren’t put on this earth to vindicate egos.

    There’s plenty of inequalities in the UK, the vast vast vast majority on the UK’s own head, it doesn’t have the answers, it’s been the biggest part of the problem, and this Brexit creates more problems for the British people than it solves.

    These problems aren’t bumps in the road, or mere birthing pains of a new nation. In my view there are a straight jacket, disabling the UK’s potential to be anything other than a bitter museum to past histories with a little trade on the side.

    This British exceptionalism, and these politicians that think they know everything, forget one key and important detail.

    The Universe does not revolve around them.

  • John Devane

    The horrendous unjustified murder of Jo Cox was committed by a lone mentally ill man. And your point is?

    Yes in your esteemed opinion 17.4 million voted for a UK love in. Interesting but not an analysis most share

    Irish Eurosceptic views are not some absurd underground movement. The Irish Electorate rejected Nice and Lisbon treaties at the first time of asking. There will be further angst post Brexit over more EU political integration and full fiscal union within the Eurozone

  • Kevin Breslin

    My point is that right wing fascism is alive and well in Britain and border controls ain’t going to stop it.

    There does seem to be a 17.4 million voter “love in” with Brexit, that love is just wasted on jingoism and pride … it would be better spent dealing with the real ills of the United Kingdom rather than seeing foreigners as the enemy, or themselves as victims of British elitism.

    Caritas and Compassion is needed rather than than indulging in the loves of Pride, Lust, Greed, Envy, Gluttony, Sloth and Wrath.

    There are a whole list of problems coming down the road for the United Kingdom and it is my real belief that Eurosceptics in the United Kingdom are out of their depth when it comes to fixing these. Indeed Eurosceptics in the desire to avoid “integration” are just disintegrating everything they can in the folly that they can get by on their contempt alone.

    Nigel Farage didn’t, he needed a sugar daddy in Arron Banks, and Banks needed blood diamonds to get his fortune.

    Frankly I understand where Irish Eurosceptics are coming from better than you do, most don’t see integration with the type of politics of Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey as a better alternative to integration with the European Union.

    Indeed, to become anti-migrant demagogues and imperial throwbacks is a bigger selling out of Irish soul than anything that it could ever do inside the European Union.

  • John Devane

    Your point is you don’t have one other than politicise the murder of Jo Cox in order to make sweeping uncorroborated generalisations. IOTW use her death to implicate the vote for Brexit.

    The real ills of the UK will in your opinion be resolved by ever increasing provincial status within a federal EU…… fortunately your opinion was put to the vote. You lost but you can take heart that democracy won

    You understand Irish Euroscepticism
    better than just me or does that include anyone else or any other group per chance? Your self appointed expert status on the subject i assume is acknowledged by the Irish voter for instance or are you just talking out of your hat yet again

    Your last paragraph are just your empty platitudes, which you regurgitate freely without any self reflection whatsoever. 85% voted for parties committed to Brexit in the last General Election. …..all imperialist fascists in your fantasy world

  • Kevin Breslin

    The murder was a political execution, no generalization, no assumptions. I didn’t politicize it Mr Mair did.

    The UK is currently in an EU bubble where there is some degree of clarity about how trade, citizen’s rights, financial obligations and the Irish border (as well as the British sea borders and Gibraltar border) will all work.

    Once that bubble bursts on the Brexit date and you have a detached British Conservative Party elite in government failing at the impossible task of a Brexit that pleases everybody and maintains most of the good links with Europe, then those who said Brexit would allow the British people to get what they want will have a lot of explaining to do.

    85% didn’t vote for parties committed to Brexit nor 15% the EU.

    We are seeing what ignoring experts and having a god like complex really achieves in the world.

    It’s only those who support the UK’s networks overseas, (particularly but not exclusive to the EU & Ireland) and inside the nation who are keeping the UK from sinking entirely into the briny deeps.

    I also see the UK becoming a lot like Wiemar Germany, without a friend in the world.

    Say what you want about Euroscepticism, Brexitscepticism and Brittanoscepticism is an even bigger doubt.

  • John Devane

    You’re the one failing to link the murder of Jo Cox with the vote to leave the EU…….

    Scaremongering again? Cameron and co tried that tactic. It didn’t work

    Your pessimistic message regarding UK trade deals is based on what exactly? …. your expert knowledge on the subject perhaps or may be some inside knowledge on the negotiations or, to be brutally honest, your biased anti UK pessimism is based on your chip on the shoulder Europhile federalist dream. I really wonder…..not

  • Kevin Breslin

    Clearly it does, when someone campaigning to remain in the EU is stabbed several times by a terrorist it’s a clear sign that the UK has a fascism problem. The arrests of people National Action and its various fronts shows that the UK has a fascism problem. The sectarian evictions of Catholic families in Northern Ireland shows that the UK has a fascism problem.

    How many Brexiteers would love to be victims of that fascist groups themselves?

    I really doubt Jo Cox would be dead if the referendum built on politicans exhibiting such an emotional hatred of an alternative point of view. Even after Cox’s death, for a politican to even suggest donning khakis or clearing the bodies away as part of their future suggests a culture of thinking problems can be solved with severe bloodletting and then wiping the blood away.

    I’m not scaremongering here, I’m not being overtly pessimistic about the UK’s negotiations. The fact is Brexit has been a self-sabotage exercise par excellence by the Conservative party and its inner egotistical narcissism.

    Take the citizen’s rights of EU nationals currently living in the UK, the failure of the U.K. Government/Parliament to protect the rights of legally admitted EU nationals (something even a man who hates everything like Farage thinks they should do) up to and beyond the UK’s departure from the EU has needlessly stalled trade talks.

    This isn’t simply a case of waiting for the EU to reciprocate, because the UK could have unilaterally acted to implement these measures only on the basis of EU reciprocity. Sadly it has not done so.

    It does nothing to get the UK a better deal, it does nothing to fix the Irish border issues, it does nothing to let the UK off the hook for financial liabilities, it does nothing to control immigration.

    It just means that when the EU refuses to give into the UK’s unreasonable demands, the UK wants the legal right to carry out revenge attacks on foreigners invited in under false premises.

    I get that the UK is frustrated over Brexit, but that’s because the majority of Brexiteers want to have their cake and eat it, they want the EU to give them a deal on citizens, trade, competition without a level playing field where the term mutual is not decided by a biased British referee.

    The U.K. has the worst of faith with all 27 national governments, the Scottish government, the Labour opposition, the Welsh government, and not just Irish nationalism but both the centreground of politics here and even clear concerns from unionists themselves.

    Even the Conservative party is tearing itself apart over Brexit/Special Relationship with Europe in a manner it has not done so since I would say Black Wednesday at the very least.

    The UK government does not even seem to have the pretence of a freind in the world.

  • John Devane

    At best your attempt to link the murder of Jo Cox with a democratic vote to leave the EU is pure hyperbole.

    Your theory the sectarian conflict in NI / North of Ireland is somehow also linked with the democratic vote to reject EU federalism is a gross misinterpretation of the conflict

    The UK EU negotiations are an ongoing brinkmanship which you have no insider knowledge. Yours analysis is pure speculation seen through the prism of a Europhile dreamer; a dreamer willing to throw Irish independence under the EU bus. Wrong bus Kevin. Repent at leisure

    All parties and all people on these islands are torn by the issues presented. You could as easily say if it wasn’t for the EU hell-bent on political federal and fiscal union Brexit would never have been voted for. We all are not disciples of the LibDems like yourself

  • John Devane

    Your ridiculous conspiracy theory regarding the murder of Jo Cox is beneath contempt. Only committed Remoaners like yourself pitifully try to politicise her murder…..this time, according to your unfounded theory, the UK has a problem with fascism. The same UK that fought against the most evil fascist regime in the 20th century. Pathetic

    Scaremongering is all you have.

    Citizen rights are a two way process. Luckily negotiations are not based on your naivety

    The EU wants a federal union superstate. The UK doesn’t want to be part of it. That is a clear statement even you should understand

    Labour opposition? The new communist Labour party is equally divided as the Conservatives over Brexit. Hence the Referendum. The vote is Leave the EU. That mandate must be honoured by any UK government otherwise the UK is a democracy in name only

    The EU cannot countenance democracy. It is anti democratic and anti nation state.

    Nation states do not have permanent ‘friends’ or enemies; they have interests

  • Kevin Breslin

    The murder was political, I didn’t politicise it Mair did. Guy was even convicted on grounds of terrorism, so accorded to your British courts and justice system he killed Jo Cox for political reasons. Oh wait you need him convicted in non-ECJ connected courts

    That death was commited for fascism, and you write as though the U.K. never grew fascists within itself. That UK that claimed to fight fascism had fascists who admired Hitler too, just like Germans fought the Nazis in their own home from. Moseley and the National Front all looking to experiment on Britain so it’s purely white, purely Christian, purely English speaking and purely obedient.

    You glorify some squeaky clean British nation as if Bloody Sunday didn’t happen in it.

    You say the EU can’t countenance democracy, Sorry but the 27 other governments in the EU want to remain in the EU. Even if there wasn’t a European Union, you English fascists would be angry at other nations standing up for themselves.

    Perhaps deep down people like you need foreigners to be the enemy to be the scapegoats for the glorious wars, a threat to justify your existence, someone the nation can

    Just like Derry on Bloody Sunday, why is it so important in the name of your British nationalism, for the innocent, the marginalised, the outsides to be the source of your Rivers of Blood?

    Perhaps you cannot countenance European nations living at peace with one another and no more glorious wars to worship on the television?

    Are you going to don khakis to kill Europeans yourself in Brexit’s name?

    Or are you just going to let Brexit be normal and avoid the sort of bloodlust that Mair and National Action are addicted to?

    We had plenty of that in our neck of the woods already, perhaps The English Troubles is the next phase in British history?

  • Kevin Breslin

    You Keep on Sabotaging Brexit there!

    There are more on the ballot papers of European Union democracy than Junker and Farage.


  • John Devane

    Appalled bystanders? I’d accept that definition for Remainers but not Remoaners

  • John Devane

    Again another tirade of Kevin Breslin ranting with impotent rage against his own straw man arguments. Your obsession with linking the legitimate UK vote to leave the EU with fascism….murder….racism…..the long standing conflict NI….. sectarian hatred…… your anti UK chip on your shoulder ….. Bloody Sunday…. etc……

    They’re just the incoherent rambling nonsense of a Remoaner

  • John Devane

    As a committed Europhile you accept the end of the nation state and hard won Independence. You support a federal EU. That is why you lost.

    Using the murder of Jo Cox is just another Remoaner ruse. No one buys it.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Jo Cox was a politically motivated death. It’s a Leaver ruse to say otherwise. You don’t have to buy into reality if you don’t want to.

    You speak of Brexit as “hard won independence” … why is the UK in massive debt?
    Why is the UK losing billion dollar assets, why is the UK still borrowing heavily albeit at a much reduced rate than after the Brexit referendum result?
    Why is the UK so unproductive?
    Why do fascists think they’ve got the run of the United Kingdom?

    There are over 200 nation states in the world, why do you suddenly think that Britain is independent and unreliant upon any one of them?

    Leave your national chauvinism where it belongs, back in the 1940’s.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Hardly impotent if it rattles you, it’s very clear that as a nation state the UK has a lot of blood on its hands. To act like its freedom was only won by the blood of its own soldiers is ridiculous. The UK has had a track record of using warfare on the unarmed to impose force.

    Even UK government officials have claimed that if there is no deal with the European Union they’ll violate the Good Friday Agreement and bring back armed customs posts.

    That really shows how little creative and imaginative solutions that jackboot British nationalist fanatics have to offer the world. Their solution is by default impose the national supremacy by blood spilling.

    That just pushes more violence.

  • Kevin Breslin

    The only ones who are sabotaging Brexit are those Leavers and their dogmatic belief system that has no material virtue in the real world.

    Loyalists have been trying to Union flag their ghettos into prosperity without success for decades. Why do you think Brexiteers doing their same thing in the name of “independence” is going to stimulate the economy any better?

  • John Devane

    Impotent in so far as you’re arguing with yourself no one else. You bandy around the fascist label to anyone with whom you disagree. Label the legitimate vote for UK Independence as extremist is your impotent bankrupt argument.

    You have only confirmed your own pro EU loyalist beliefs and anti nation state credentials

    Hard won Independence…..I wasn’t just referring to the UK….think about it…….?

  • John Devane

    Jo Cox murder by a mentally ill misfit has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit…..your attempt to link the two is objectionable

    National chauvinism….is that your opinion of the 1916 Rising? Are you happy to see hard won Independence handed over so easily to Berlin and Brussels? Ireland is in the Eurozone. It is on the road to your EU superstate nightmare

  • John Devane

    Your EU loyalist superstate is not the answer. A democratic vote to leave the EU is democracy in action. You just can’t live with the result.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Mair was sent to jail because he was considered to be compus mentus, not some sanitarium under the guises of diminished capacity.

    While attacking Jo Cox, Thomas Mair had said “This is for Britain”,
    “keep Britain independent”, and “Britain first”.

    Crown prosecutors did not use the word “terrorism” during the trial because they believed the jurors should be asked simply whether they believed he committed the crime or not, rather than also be expected to consider his motives. The killers of Lee Rigby were prosecuted in the same way.

    Murder, Politically motivated murder. No Plea of Insanity.

    The far right should not get immunity from prosecution simply because they had bad feelings one day.

    On your second issue, the Irish handed over nothing…

    Article 4

    1. In accordance with Article 5, competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States.

    2. The Union shall respect the equality of Member States before the Treaties as well as their national identities, inherent in their fundamental structures, political and constitutional, inclusive of regional and local self-government. It shall respect their essential State functions, including ensuring the territorial integrity of the State, maintaining law and order and safeguarding national security. In particular, national security remains the sole responsibility of each Member State.

    3. Pursuant to the principle of sincere cooperation, the Union and the Member States shall, in full mutual respect, assist each other in carrying out tasks which flow from the Treaties.

    The Member States shall take any appropriate measure, general or particular, to ensure fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the Treaties or resulting from the acts of the institutions of the Union.

    The Member States shall facilitate the achievement of the Union’s tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union’s objectives.

    Article 5

    Print Email
    1. The limits of Union competences are governed by the principle of conferral. The use of Union competences is governed by the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality.

    2. Under the principle of conferral, the Union shall act only within the limits of the competences conferred upon it by the Member States in the Treaties to attain the objectives set out therein. Competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States.

    3. Under the principle of subsidiarity, in areas which do not fall within its exclusive competence, the Union shall act only if and insofar as the objectives of the proposed action cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States, either at central level or at regional and local level, but can rather, by reason of the scale or effects of the proposed action, be better achieved at Union level.

    The institutions of the Union shall apply the principle of subsidiarity as laid down in the Protocol on the application of the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality. National Parliaments ensure compliance with the principle of subsidiarity in accordance with the procedure set out in that Protocol.

    4. Under the principle of proportionality, the content and form of Union action shall not exceed what is necessary to achieve the objectives of the Treaties. The institutions of the Union shall apply the principle of proportionality as laid down in the Protocol on the application of the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality.

    It’s not just a matter that Brexit disrupts the cross border way of life for Northern Ireland…in places where I live like Derry

    “There’s no technological solution, no tolling system, that’s going to tell you what’s in the milk or what standard the burgers are up to – that can only be achieved through common standards.”

    “Every single aspect of life in Northern Ireland could be affected by the outcome – jobs and the economy, the border, citizens’ rights, cross border workers, travel, trade, agriculture, energy, fisheries, aviation, EU funding, tourism, public services, the list goes on.”

    It’s the Brexiteers who want to take Republic of Ireland’s sovereignty away from her as well. They are upset it doesn’t kowtow to British rule.







    And the contempt for Little Ireland shows.


    Meanwhile, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has likened Dublin’s concerns overt Brexit negotiations to the millennium bug fiasco.

    “The whole thing about the customs union and the technical difficulties is all being turned by great superstition into the equivalent of the millennium bug,” the foreign secretary told the Lowy Institute in Sydney, as cited by The Times.

    ^ Completely false, and grossly misinformed.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Sorry but the real loyalists are the British chauvenists who want the Irish to worship Queen and Kingdom and shed blood for the Union Flag like the good old days…

    Articles 4 & 5 of the Lisbon Treaty give Ireland far better independence than the Act of Union ever did.

    The Irish weren’t even allowed Home Rule, they weren’t allowed universal suffrage …

    Even now it’s clear the British do not see the Republic of Ireland as a separate independent state.

    Mellanie Phillips’s attitude “Kingship (not even Kinship) is a way of binding a people together under independent self-government” is incompatible with the ideas of an Irish Republic I’m afraid.

    Why do you need Ireland to be so attached to a nation ruled by a incestuous blood line?

    Is genetic diversity like cultural also a pet pet peeve of the Brexiteers…


    … better to keep it in the family, eh? 😉

  • John Devane

    You’re so clutching at straws……you are by your own admission an EU federal state loyalist

    Your attempt to link the vote to leave the EU with the Anglo Irish struggle / conflict a century past is just another Remoaner ruse precipitated by you yourself alone

  • John Devane

    Her murder had nothing whatsoever to do with the vote to leave the EU. …….you have abysmally failed to make the link stick

  • Kevin Breslin

    The murder was driven by right wing fundamentalism, the only reason why it wasn’t a terrorist charge is because the police caught the person in the act not counter-terrorist police.

    It came with a life sentence that is due any terrorist charge. Many Troubles combatant were convicted of murder rather than terrorism under the same laws.

    This quite simply shows that England, (just like Loyalist areas of Ireland) is a nesting place for ultra right-wing radicalisation and fanaticism.


    The UK has a problem like many other European states with homegrown neo-Nazism.

  • John Devane

    Again her murder had nothing whatsoever to do with the vote to leave the EU

  • Kevin Breslin

    Brexit is the new Anglo-Irish struggle … the Brexiteers busted open the cosy border hegemony in Ireland without due care as to what replaces it.

    Britain First, Northern Ireland Second, Republic of Ireland Third is not going to work here.

    All sides are going to have to live with a sub-optimal mechanism in order to respect each other’s distinctive differences in values.

    The fact that the Ireland hasn’t voted for some sort of Éirígí, Saoradh, Identity Ireland, Libertas Ireland, Cóir, National Party, Republican Sinn Féin, DUP, UKIP, TUV coalition of the crazy in large numbers to support the right wing isolationism that exists in Britain, means it’s highly presumptuous that Brexiteers try to impose upon our European relations in order to engineer it just to suit Britain’s needs.

  • Kevin Breslin

    It was political driven by the far right.

    The far right British nationalism has done enough damage to the Republic of Ireland during the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, never mind just to Northern Ireland.

    We don’t need lectures in freedom from those flag waving jingoists who think bombing us into oblivion is the way to ensure our compliance.

    The disregard shown to both parts of Ireland by the United Kingdom, show that Ireland’s real friends aren’t the English far right Brexit Crusaders or their hebee geebee easily spooked fellow travellers who just want their country back.

    Which country do they want back?

    The Republic of Ireland is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    The United State of America is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Afghanistan is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Antigua and Barbuda is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Australia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    The Bahamas is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Bangladesh is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Barbados is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Belize is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Botswana is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Brunei is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Cameroon is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Canada is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Cyprus is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Dominica is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Egypt is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Fiji is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Gambia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Ghana is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Grenada is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Guyana is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Hong Kong is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    India is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Israel is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Iraq is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Jamaica is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Jordan is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Kenya is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Kiribati is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Kuwait is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Lesotho is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Malawi is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Malaysia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    The Maldives are not England’s country, it’s not getting them back.
    Malta is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Mauritius is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Myanmar is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Mozambique is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Namibia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Nauru is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    New Zealand is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Nigeria is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Pakistan is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Palestine is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Papua New Guinea is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Qatar is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Rwanda is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Saint Kitts and Nevis is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Saint Lucia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Samoa is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Seychelles is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Sierra Leone is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Singapore is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Solomon Islands is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    South Africa is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Sri Lanka is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Sudan is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    South Sudan is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Swaziland is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Tanzania is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Tonga is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Trinidad and Tobago is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Tuvalu is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Uganda is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    United Arab Emirates is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Vanuatu is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Yemen is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Zambia is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.
    Zimbabwe is not England’s country, it’s not getting it back.

    The English would be better sorting out the problems inside England and give up on the megalomania, and trying to control and manipulate other nations.

    They’ll reap what they sew with that nonsense.

  • John Devane

    Hahaha you are so rattled. You remind me of that highly excitable Norwegian sports commentator gushing about Maggie Thatcher Winston Churchill etc your boys took one hell of a beating….. dragged in everything he could recall when Norway won

    Needless to say it was far more amusing than your faux nationalist drivel. Let’s recap here. You don’t support an independent country. You are an EU federal state loyalist first and foremost

  • John Devane

    You again fail abysmally to portray the 17.4 million majority vote to leave the EU as an alliance of the far right

    Your persistence with labelling those with whom you disagree as extremist is amusing. It’s akin to someone so blinkered they reject the democratic process itself

    The UK has a democratic mandate to leave the EU. Your new Anglo Irish struggle is going to involve how to deal with this reality as opposed to reneging on the vote to leave the EU. You’re still grieving

  • Kevin Breslin

    You know what concerns Norweigans even more… Right wing fanatics like Anders Brevik.

    I don’t see why you seem so opposed to the Republic of Ireland denying English right wing criminals from entry to Ireland.

    This doesn’t mean ending freedom of movement for the British, just a ban on those deemed a security threat.

    I support Irish independence, that means the soverign people of Ireland deciding what treaties they sign and don’t sign.

    I get it, you want Ireland free of the European Union so it can be controlled by England, and we all wave our flags and get suspicious of every network of nations together.

    But I’m sorry, but English fascism isn’t welcome here.

  • Kevin Breslin

    What is so annoying with calling extremists extremists?

    Do you think Ireland should be soft on British people causing trouble in Ireland?

    Maybe turn a blind eye to future Dublin-Monaghan bombers out of some wishy washy kit and kin UKIP solidarity.

    Sorry but there’s nothing democratic about letting English fascists break the law just so they can have a power trip.

    I’m sorry but I think it only prudent that the Irish nation asserts the law.

    Brexit causes problems for all parts of the U.K. And Ireland and when the dust settles even the most ardent Brexiteers will begin to question if it’s worth it.

  • John Devane

    Again you fail to make any case for linking the legitimate democratic vote to leave the EU with fascism.

    Whataboutery I think you call it

  • John Devane

    Again you fail miserably to brand Brexit as a fascist movement

    You do not by your own admission support Irish Independence. You are first and foremost an EU loyalist. You will happily sell out the last vestiges of Independence to the EU collective. Some Nationalist!

  • John Devane

    English fascism? To oppose the EU superstate is the exact opposite but you can carry on arguing with yourself

  • John Devane

    Brexit is a legitimate democratic vote to leave the EU. The worst days work the ROI ever committed in recent history was joining the Euro. Wrong currency and no more than a trap

  • John Devane

    Again yours is no more than an attempt to hijack the murder of Jo Cox to make spurious political points regarding a democratic vote to leave the EU

  • John Devane

    Still talking to yourself arguing against your own nonsense

  • John Devane

    Are you making a point? You seriously need to work on brevity.

  • John Devane

    The only loyalists are the committed Europhiles like yourself unable to process a member state having the audacity to vote to leave its superstate dream

  • John Devane

    Interesting spin on a democratic vote to leave the EU. Next

  • John Devane

    National chauvinism versus your Europhile surrender.

    Yes 200 + nations to trade. One does not require to be a province of the EU in order to trade.

    Leave your EU dream where it belongs, back in the 1950’s

  • John Devane

    Killed by a ghost? You attempt to equate the democratic vote to Leave the EU with her murder has failed. Move on

  • John Devane

    REmoaners like yourself just cannot reconcile themselves with leaving their flawed EU superstate

  • Kevin Breslin

    You only come back to this forum when the UK leaving side is losing.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Sorry but Ireland will not be a martyr to Brexit, nor will those who don’t agree with this right wing nonsense that those who are Europhile have given up on freedom.
    This isn’t Europhilia, this is the common consensus of people in Ireland and in Britain.

    We are not going to suffer for your sake, we are not going to do your hard work, we are not going to take responsibility for the Brexiteer’s mistakes, we are not going to help them grow up.

    This is your nation’s problem, not mine. Brexit isn’t a conservative force, it is a destructive force and it takes place within the heart of the United Kingdom.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Democracy doesn’t trump causality.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Read what you write before writing this …
    Maybe you cannot process why half the United Kingdom people, pretty much most of Ireland and the European Union who are taken

    The Brexit vote is inconsequential, so are the Brexiteer attitudes … what is of consequence is the actions that Brexiteers do in the name of Brexit, not for their own freedom, but to destroy their own networks and stability.

    My bet is that once this self-indulgent staying in the EU, planning a way out phase is over, even ardent Brexiteers like yourself will struggle to see the point of decisions that make you very sick of yourselves.

    The key thing is, the rest of the world won’t bend to the United Kingdom’s will. They’ve got no leverage now only demands.

    It’s time to see the supply side of Brexit, and who’s actually willing to do its dirty work emerge.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I don’t need to do anything to keep you happy, John.
    How’s that for brevity?

  • Kevin Breslin

    You only come back here when the Leave side is frustrated by Ireland or Brussels to vent at me. The fact of the matter is frustration is a part of life, being the supplier of political solutions, some of which are sub-optimal are a part of life. The UK hasn’t given anyone in Ireland a reason to work on supporting its Brexit plans, because the assumption was that Ireland would roll over and make it easy for them, perhaps even do all their hard work.

    Sorry but the Leave liars brought this on themselves, you cannot vote away causality and consequences. If you make choices which harm other people unintentionally, it’s not the role of those people to forgive you and move on. When push comes to shove the Brexiteers need to face facts that they are not going to change a world which didn’t vote for Brexit, the only ones they can end up changing is themselves.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Brexit is still the new Anglo-Irish struggle, and come to Ireland and see how many Irish people actually complain about the Euro over here.

    Let’s be clear, the Republic of Ireland made a legitimate democratic vote by referendum to join the Euro, something you are keen to call “The worst days work the ROI ever committed in recent history”

    I think we’re establishing you have a double standard here when it comes to democracy.

    The UK has made its choice, the problem is that unlike Ireland and the Euro it’s refusing to live with the unpleasant consequences. Ireland is more at home with the Euro than it was a few years ago, you don’t even get ardent Irish Eurosceptics complaining about it these days.

    Meanwhile you’ve got Diane Dodds complaining British cities can’t win a European Culture Award because of Brexit. Pure Cakeism.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Nothing to do with opposing the EU, it’s all to do with opposing 41 years of international co-operation which the European Union has helped to facilitate.

    All so you can argue with yourself over some non-existent European superstate.

  • John Devane

    Losing what exactly Kevin? Their Independence? The Leave vote won the Referendum. That means Leave.

  • John Devane

    Offends you more like. Hence your incessant moaning. Best to deal with the reality. The EU superstate is not going to include the UK.

    The worst days work regarding Ireland IMHO was joining the Euro single currency straitjacket. Now it’s more difficult to avoid the all encompassing EU federal state. Do you seriously want that outcome?

  • Kevin Breslin

    It means you are terrified of what they are doing, and you are terrified that things I said years ago about the Irish border are coming to fruition.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Really? A straitjacket … the Euro wasn’t the one who had to destroy roads for customs posts, or had trade wars and

    That was Britain and Irish politics before the EU was the honest broker between us.


    Now Perfidious Albion and their usual Hibernophobia stereotypes, mean Brexiteers are putting “politics before prosperity” in not coming up with practical solutions which can work for both sides.


    EU = open borders in Ireland
    Brexit = closed borders in Ireland and between Ireland and Britain.

    Sorry mate, it’s too late now … simply doing nothing and saying “we’ll be fine” is not a revolution, you weren’t fine before the you were in the EU, you wont be fine when you leave the EU … ignoring the problems and letting them fester solves nothing.

    Ireland’s real border issue is far more serious than the English right wing presses fictional mass migration problem.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Your temper

    After all ,how is Brexit supposed to work without the UK crying foul about every nation in the world not obeying its imperial instructions?

    Ireland has provided just a preview of multiple stalemates the Leave liars will have around the world.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I do get offended by British nationalists killing people out of the need to dominate. Must be the Bloody Sunday legacy I grew up in.

  • John Devane

    Again conflating the vote to leave the EU with the conflict in NI…. grasping at straws yet again

  • John Devane

    Temper? Try to calm down. It’s just an exchange of opinions

    I suspect the UK and Ireland will have a separate post Brexit customs deal for the free movement of goods. The CTA already caters for free movement of people between UK/Ireland

  • John Devane

    Apology not required. Leaving the EU will not create a hard border if the EU permits a separate customs deal between UK Ireland

  • John Devane

    Terrified? More concerned that Ireland is headed down the wrong road. Euro member states are very much on the fast track toward ever closer political and economic union. I’m pleased the UK will escape the superstate. Not so sure about the medium long term future for Ireland when EU political pushed ahead

  • John Devane

    Non existent? Ok if the EU backed off this political union nonsense I suspect Remain would’ve won the referendum. Yet you dismiss it. Why?

  • John Devane

    Haha I was over in Ireland in October and earlier in the year. The Euro gets a good slagging.

    I hold the view Ireland made a mistake joining an ill thought through currency union

  • Kevin Breslin

    Absolutely non-existent problem. Sure it will all be grand, sure there’s no uncontrolled immigration when Farage and Dacre are sleeping or calmed down!

    The Irish border issue is actually a real problem that blighted the island of Ireland for decades before the EEC, the xenophobic hysteria of Farage and Dacre pales into insignificance!

    Sure people like that will always find something to complain about, they were raised to be pessimists!

  • Kevin Breslin

    It’s very clear the Brexiteers don’t want responsibility for anything, because anyone who actually does take responsibility gets the blame by people who underestimate the work needed to ensure jobs are created, buisnesses can expand and nation states can work with one another.

    To those with the Dunning-Kruger Effect, wave a few Union Flags about and somehow that’s going to drive the world to bend to your desire.

  • Kevin Breslin

    The Brexiteers don’t want a customs deal with anyone … they want 4.5 million Irish people in the Republic of Ireland to OBEY H

    At least the European Union gives the Irish a say in their customs protocols.

    The British First Brexiteers, no nation besides Britain can have any say in anything, even Ireland over its own internal customs affairs.

    The tunnel vision from insular Brits is ridiculous.

    Because 17 million vote to leave a trade block, the mere fear of being insulted by those 17 million people is supposed to make pretty much every nation in the world conform to make life easier for the British as a whole.

    Exactly how flexible do you expect the rest of the world to be to a United Kingdom that insists on being a lot more rigid, a lot more insular and a lot more sedentary?

    The United Kingdom will be the one which is forced to be flexible, the Irish have made a lot of effort to accommodate the British and have been getting nothing in return for months and months now.

    It pretty much is symbolic of how much damage petty English nationalists have done to British-Irish relationships over pretty much nothing more than paranoid fantasies.

  • Kevin Breslin

    How is Brexit supposed to work without the UK government crying foul about Ireland not obeying its imperial instructions?

  • Kevin Breslin

    Shooting and Stabbing people is not conflation, it’s something that has been driven by English nationalist fanatics and their radical extremism.