A Passport to Nationalist Insurrection?

I recently discovered Jamie Bryson, and as with the discovery of any hidden gem, I’ll confess I’m rapt. It’s not yet clear to me whether Jamie believes everything he says or whether he’s simply realised that hyperbole is a sure fire path to notoriety.

But after his latest offering, I’d have to say the balance of opinion has to come down to the latter view.

In my dalliance with Jamie’s pontification on all matters unionist, nationalist and fantasist, it is on the matter of passports that I fear our loyalist superhero has, Fonz-like, jumped the shark.

Nationalist Insurrection Around Every Bonfire-Lit Corner

In the right for citizens of Northern Ireland to hold two passports Jamie sees a slippery slope to joint rule of the North by the Republic and Great Britain.

But it’s far from clear that a right to more than one passport, whether one resides in a disputed territory or not, can by itself be seen as a cog in any mechanism leading inexorably toward a change in sovereignty for said territory.

For sure, passports are by definition documents of identity. Yet they’re also documents of practicality. In almost all cases, it’s difficult to cross international borders without them, and the right passports can make that passage all the easier.

According to Jamie, “The majority of people pursuing Irish passports do so in order to assert their rights as Irish citizens living in what they believe is an illegitimate state.” Where’s the evidence?

Hitchen’s razor is alive and well. Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

‘Flegs’ be preserved, the end is nigh!

It’s futile to speculate on the motivations that drive people’s decisions to get one passport over another. I do however recognise that in a disputed territory, we should expect less homogeneity around matters of identity.

The 2010 census, the first in which respondents were asked about national identity, was particularly revealing in this regard. In Northern Ireland a full fifth (21%) declared themselves as having a “Northern Irish” only identity, 40% declared British only, and 25% declared Irish only.

In Northern Ireland a full fifth (21%) declared themselves as having a “Northern Irish” only identity, 40% declared British only, and 25% declared Irish only.

Far from being a tool to weaken British sovereignty, as Jamie fears, passport choice is little more than a reflection of self for a province in which identity and belonging is ever-evolving.

Rome won’t fall, and joint rule over Jamie’s beloved six counties won’t materialise from the pages of an 8.5cm x 12.5cm booklet bearing the words An tAontas Eorpach on its front.

For the record, I hold British and Irish passports for the convenience, using the former for almost all travel, with the latter standing ready for trips to the EU after March 29th, 2019. I’m an amateur though; my daughter has three passports and counting.

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  • Toye native

    Skibo, the surge of people getting Irish passports is not an identity thing, it’s a flag of convenience for their personal need, 5years time the British passport could be convenient for them.
    I’ve noticed that a large section of unionists are showing there British identity more and more,
    You only have to look at the 12th where you had the biggest crowds for many many years.
    Between 600-700 thousand were out watching the parades.

  • More than 8 per cent of Northern Ireland’s GDP is dependent upon EU funded programmes.[1]

    Britain appears to be heading for a ‘clean’ Brexit. If so, Britain’s GDP would shrink significantly and it seems most unlikely that HMG would cut spending on education, NHS, or pensions to meet the 8% NI shortfall. So might years of recession in NI increase support for reunification?

    [1] http://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/bulletin-article/2017/brexit-and-threat-northern-ireland

  • Tochais Siorai

    Someone who doesn’t consider themselves Irish or partly Irish shouldn’t have an Irish passport unless there are exceptional circumstances. I’m fine with liberal passport rules but some people are starting to take the p**s.

    I’m beginning to think anyone who wants an Irish passport should have to sign a declaration of allegiance.

  • ElamLayor

    I’d be wary engaging that that legal eagle in the future Granni – according to Wiki he’s the 3rd in 80 yrs to have done so after the Earl of Longford and the Earl of Iveagh

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Haughey,_Baron_Ballyedmond

  • ElamLayor

    I could,probably but I would have had to lose the will to live first.

  • Granni Trixie

    You have provided a perfect opportunity for me to have one over on my nearest and dearest, thanks.

  • Granni Trixie

    Now that I read your link I see that as “my legal team” said he did not do the double AT THE SAME TIME. I also see that he donated £50K to the Conservatives…hmmm.

  • ElamLayor

    can’t see where it says he gave up on the Senate where he was from1994? Maybe you can enlighten me.As regards the £50k-what a cheapskate!

  • ElamLayor

    Uniquely at the time, he( The Rt. Hon. (Arthur Francis) Benjamin Guinness, 3rd Earl of Iveagh (20 May 1937 – 1992), styled Viscount Elveden between 1945 and 1967 was a member of two upper houses simultaneously. He was in the British House of Lords in 1967–92, and was appointed an Irish Senator by Liam Cosgrave in 1973–77.

  • 05OCT68

    I’m not fine with the rules, happy that anyone here can chose either or both Nationalities but since Brexit holding of both passports simultaneously should be stopped. There taking the p**s alright. I think you can now have Londonderry as county of birth on an Irish passport a former DUP alderman on Derry council born in Donegal campaigned for it & is campaigning for citizens born in say Donegal for instance be able to choose British citizenship. See the wee Donegal man isn’t entitled to a British Passport, smacks of self interest. Still me favorite example of Unionist self interest was during the foot & mouth crisis when the cry was I’m British but me cows are Irish! Ye couldn’t make it up.

  • ElamLayor

    Edward Arthur Henry Pakenham, 6th Earl of Longford b. 29 December 1902, d. 4 February 1961

    http://www.thepeerage.com/p7093.htm

    On 13 November 1946 he(Ed 6th) was nominated by the Taoiseach, Éamon de Valera as a member of 5th Seanad Éireann until 1948

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Pakenham,_6th_Earl_of_Longford

  • ElamLayor
  • Am Ghobsmacht

    The irony is that I actually quite like Bryson and think that we would get on personally.

    I just think he spends too much time with like minded unionists and can’t comprehend life for a unionist west of the Bann where orange culture suffers because of the selfish actions of the Belfast lot.

    He’s smarter than what people give him credit for which is why it’s so frustrating to see him accept british nationalism over northern irishness.

    Ho hum.

  • NotNowJohnny

    I suppose you think if an hotel has a sign outside saying ‘No Gays ‘, that’s perfectly ok, they can go to another hotel?

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    The Irish ‘Londonderry’ passport is one of my giant slaying arguments to be deployed whenever a blinkered old school unionist starts ranting about the south.

    I see it as open-minded and indeed proper as legally speaking that is the name of the place for better or worse.

    Of course some day it shall be renamed Amghobsmachtderry but till then you’ll just have to wing it….

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Another day on Slugger, another alliance of the enemies of Ulster and the loony libtards bashing anyone for stating reality. The only outcome in appeasing the insurgents will be prolonged insurgency. Those who want our wee country eradicated are indeed never going to do anything but bash those who will bluntly tell them no.

  • GavBelfast

    Folks({ all of you above), thanks for the extra info – I did acknowledge that I knew there had been an addendum, which did not form part of the BA/GFA and its referendum, just something that was added because the Republic’a authorities didn’t want the “anyone born on the island of Ireland” being taken-advantage of in a way that was not intended by the BA/GFA.

    Cheers for the extra info.

  • GavBelfast

    Apparently, I am one of these deried (or minimised) “liberal Unionists” on the basis that I would NOT want to live in a Northern Ireland that treats everyone equal, subject to the law.

    I didn’t vote for Brexit because, while I thought/think the EU needs/needed reform, we are better-off in than out.

    Naturally, I also knew it would not help matters here, and would be used by those for whom instability, or at least mischief-making, is in the DNA.

    I fully-intend to get a Republic of Ireland passport (and I do wish that the Republic of Ireland used that term (or Irish republic) to distinguish itself from the island of Ireland (it would help people from a Unionist perspective embrace “Irishness” more easily, as well as being disambiguous until as until Irish unity is achieved) because, while I accept that EU is leaving the EU, I don’t want to cease being an EU citizen – any more than I would have stopped being Irish on 7 December 1922 and born in Belfast, or not being British if I’d happened to be born in Dublin from 6 December 1922.

    It hasn’t been mentioned here, but, another thing that I have absolutely no objection to, which seems to have gone quiet because it’s been overtaken by these strange notion (from predicable quarters) of Irish citizens/passport holders in NI voting for Republic of Ireland MEPs (how ON EARTH would that work): Irish citizens wherever they live should be entitled to vote for the office of President. That is common practice in many other countries – France being the closest example. That’s fine by me, absolutely fine – we’re not all like Mr Bryson.

  • 05OCT68

    What is your opinion of Ulster Unionists obtaining Irish passports to mitigate any negative aspects (for the UK) of Brexit?

  • 05OCT68

    What? The “liberal media” give a hours every year of uncritical coverage of the 12th. When I was a young man Saturday morning TV was devoted to the 12th forget about Swap Shop that morning. The 11th night “Purge” is fair game as the OO have nothing to do with boneys (that’s what we’re told). The “Purge” is the topic and critique of group identity that you write about not the 12th. Sandy Row, two stabbings, two separate reports of two young women getting a battering, one report of a serious sexual assault. But lets not talk about that. The “liberal media” in GB was accused of down playing abuse of young girls by Muslim men, fearing accusations of racism. Should the “liberal media” here be afraid of critiquing the “Purge”?

  • Shane Greer

    I’m no enemy of Ulster. On the issue of NI remaining in the UK or becoming part of the Republic, I’m totally indifferent.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    You’re not listening.

    As I stated earlier unionists of every hue are forever gloating about the polls that indicate just how many people of a nominally ‘nationalist’ background seemingly don’t want a united Ireland.

    This state of affairs is down to things like dual citizenship.

    People like Bryson oppose the very things that would actually harm nationalism but are just too stubborn to see what is clearly in front of them.

    And given that he predicted some sort of renewed Provo campaign to coincide with the Easter rising centenary I’d see it as wise not to be running to the bookies to place bets on his ‘predictions’.

  • MalikHills

    Is that so? That’s a nice concession.

    I have often countered the argument that “Derry” should be the official British name of the city by pointing out that such a move would deprive Unionist people of part of their identity in a way that Nationalists are not deprived.

    You can, to the best of my knowledge, use “Derry” without let or hindrance (we’re on a passport discussion here) on all official British documents, by changing the official British name of the city you would be blocking that option for Unionists.

    So for Irish passports to accept “Londonderry” as the English-language name of the county of birth is a positive move and one not to be sneered at.

    Incidentally I was visiting the GPO museum in Dublin the other week and was looking at the pigeon hole rack for letters in the replica sorting office, there were holes for all the Irish counties (and Belfast) except one, the hole was there but no sign underneath showing what county it related to. I don’t know whether it was never put there or some irritated visitor pulled it off because of course in 1916 the Dublin GPO would have used the name “Londonderry”.

  • mickfealty

    The delusion around this is breathtaking and in some individual cases actually damaging.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Shane, Any one who deviates from a certain way of unionist thinking is ‘an enemy of Ulster’…

  • Granni Trixie

    But none were elected. I am also told that the Frenchman as a court case when Seamus Mallon was an MP over this issue which he lost.

  • ElamLayor

    So you accept that Longford and Iveagh did indeed “do the double AT THE SAME TIME” but now you’re arguing that because they were appointed to the Seanad,they weren’t politicians?

  • Granni Trixie

    I didn’t make it clear what I meant because I wasn’t clear what I meant.
    Soooo…you are right …but I am right …if I meant One cannot be elected to both …but you are right about people when were “appointed”. Phew…

  • MainlandUlsterman

    The big unknown is whether younger people growing up now are more malleable in their loyalties than their parents and grandparents. If they are, then who knows. My guess is, not malleable enough to make much of a difference.

  • ElamLayor

    I trust your exasperation is with yourself.As regards “the Frenchman as a court case when Seamus Mallon was an MP”,could you expand?

  • Granni Trixie

    Omg. This is turning into a predictive text car crash. Now I really don’t know what I mean. I BLAME YOU.

    What would (my hero) Peter Kaye make of our postings?

  • MainlandUlsterman

    I’m finally reading Nick Cohen’s “What’s Left?” and he talks of the disastrous effect the Bolshevik success in Russia had on the ideological left in the West – it led that a small cadre of hardcore true believers could do it on their own and they shouldn’t listen to moderate voices. A similar pernicious message is drawn from the success of violent Republicanism 1916-21.

    Yes things can change quickly sometimes, but rarely. It’s tempting to imagine when languishing in the polls that change comes fast when it comes; but it usually doesn’t. Most causes that lack sufficient popularity continue to lack sufficient popularity.

    I agree on parity of esteem. How that translates into flags though is less straightforward, because flags have a dual role: a personal role as symbol of one’s national identity and a public role as a practical symbol of sovereignty / official use.

  • ElamLayor

    Peter Kaye?

  • Granni Trixie

    Funniest man on the planet and aka “Geraldine from NI”. See YOuTube.

  • ElamLayor

    I know who Peter KAY is.Deflection aside,perhaps you could enlighten me on the “Frenchman”? And btw last time I looked there are no elected members of the HOL

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    You are deluded. There is nothing about being a patriot that harms anyone else, nor is there anything to be ashamed of – you should be one too and leave whatever cult you have been brainwashed with. Promoting Irish Nationalism does not harm Irish Nationalism you eejit.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    There are few to no negative aspects to Brexit.

  • Granni Trixie

    Sorry not to be clearer (again) but Frenchman was a nonsensical intervention by the predictive text thingy which comes into play as you type and which I shoukd have corrected before posting.

    Must leave this now as I’m off to Alexandra Palace.

  • Tochais Siorai

    So you’d like a passport saying ‘Republic of Ireland’ where you’re not from and where you don’t live………..but don’t like the idea of a passport saying ‘Ireland’ which is where you’re from and where you live?

    I’m going to lie down for a while.

  • ElamLayor

    You’re a month too early at the Ally Pally for the “Beast” It might have cleared your head 😉

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Don’t worry, I always had you in the low-testosterone libtard category.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Indeed, looking at your posts you do not seem someone worth listening to.

    They clearly know what side their bread is buttered on, but polls also show a long-term aspiration still being desired. Promoting Irish Nationalism will never damage Irish Nationalism in the long run, and normalising a foreign citizenship is never in the interests of long-term security.

    I can see you are cheered on by rabid Irish Nationalists on this site – somehow you seem to think you are a lovable guy, and not just a useful idiot doing their work for them.

  • Ben De Hellenbacque

    Do you really mean malleable? Or do you mean flexible or even open?
    For most people who believe that a UI is inevitable simultaneously see a UI as theoretical only and something that’s not likely in the next few years. After all there’s less than meat on the bones of a possible UI: there aren’t even any bones.
    In addition, desire for unification where it exists in the Republic is more nebulous than theoretical – perhaps more a desire for increased acreage than incorporating a troublesome population and there’s the dilemma.

  • 05OCT68

    If a British passport was printed in Irish as a concession to Nationalists I still wouldn’t hold one. I’d have expected principled Unionists not to hold an Irish passport even with the concession on Londonderry. If you read my earlier comment its a hypocrisy of some within Unionism & Brexiter Loyalists applying for Irish passports. As for Derry being the “official British” name of the city well Doire Colmcille is what some are pushing for, but it seems that in the great British democracy its the Queen that gets to decide. And in1916 the Dublin GPO along with Dublin Castle was at the centre of the British rule in Ireland so I’m not surprised that Londonderry was used even on a historically correct recreation.

  • mickfealty

    I would not be so confident about Brexit. With exception of SF (who, as a party, did not even campaign in the referendum) every explicitly anti Brexit UK based party lost ground in the June election.

    Labour will certainly seek to set limits on the removal of social protections but they’ve already conceded the key ground on the issue itself.

  • Brendan Heading

    Neither unionism nor nationalism have a plan to extend support for their constitutional perspective beyond voters who are born into their own respective tradition. On both sides, the priority is to keep the voters coming out.

  • Brendan Heading

    If Alliance managed to snag a seat from a Sinn Féin MP you could bet a green-tinged version of what happened in 2012 would be delivered against the successful candidate. Joe Hendron knows what it feels like.

  • Brendan Heading

    Remember that this lad was able to just walk into the Haass talks and seek assurances from the unionist parties regarding flags.

    After Jamie leaked the fact (and then pretended to deny it) that Daithi McKay was passing information to him when he appeared at the finance committee, I doubt anyone will ever pass on anything to him again.

  • Brendan Heading

    But look at the liberals attacking Asher’s bakery over not baking a cake when the reality is if that was a non christian bakery for example nothing would have been said and in the end they could have went to another bakery.

    You’re right. If it was a non-Christian bakery (exactly wtf is a “Christian bakery” anyway?) they would have baked the cake and there would have been no story.

  • Brendan Heading

    nd normalising a foreign citizenship is never in the interests of long-term security.

    It must be a terrible shame that this has been the case in UK law since 1948.

  • Brendan Heading

    Also, remember your duty as a citizen to respect and uphold the laws of Ireland and its Constitution.

    eh ?

  • Brendan Heading

    George.

    certain strands of nationalism can coherently argue that this should give the Irish government a greater say to represent these larger numbers.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “greater say”. Governments are generally entitled to make representations about their citizens residing in other jurisdictions but this doesn’t extend to involving themselves in how those jurisdictions are governed. The Irish government has no mandate in Northern Ireland and levies no taxes here, so their claim to have a “say” is pretty weak irrespective of how many citizens reside here.

  • 05OCT68

    I’m glad to here that, why then are so many of your fellow Ulster men opting to hold Irish passports?

  • 05OCT68

    You’ve got Fox News on full blast again, turn the volume down.

  • Gaz

    like nationalists in the 6 counties taking a British Passport?
    I will use whichever passport is
    A-Cheaper
    B-allows me the most hastle free travel
    C-nationality does not come in to-no one in Government in London or Dublin does not care or has much interest in us in the 6 counties so why pretend to be loyal to either-its one sided loyalty-not returned

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    “Indeed, looking at your posts you do not seem someone worth listening to.”

    Great! That means that you think my posts are incorrect, all you have to do then is highlight and explain how exactly I am wrong.

    “They clearly know what side their bread is buttered on, but polls also show a long-term aspiration still being desired.”

    Point. Missed.
    Pre-ceasefire the idea of any one from the Catholic community (other than John Gorman) supporting the status quo would have been shot down and mocked (mainly by unionists like you) yet now we have all manner quotes and figures showing a great deviation from this once ‘written in stone’ law.

    So yes, obviously there is STILL an appetite for a UI but it is no longer the 100% supposition and IF this is truly the case then it shows that people born into a Catholic background are indeed receptive to some gestures.

    How you don’t think this worthwhile exploring is truly baffling.

    “Promoting Irish Nationalism will never damage Irish Nationalism in the long run” True, but as having a British passport (with one saying LONDONderry on it) is not promoting nationalism then that’s a duff point.

    ” and normalising a foreign citizenship is never in the interests of long-term security.”

    If that were so then the USA wouldn’t allow dual citizenship.

    “I can see you are cheered on by rabid Irish Nationalists on this site ”

    Define for me please a ‘rabid nationalist’, an ‘ordinary nationalist’ and a ‘mellow nationalist’ (I doubt if you can, in your mind there probably is no difference).

    “somehow you seem to think you are a lovable guy, and not just a useful idiot doing their work for them.”

    I’ve had at least three nationalists this past week state how they’re not opposed to Orange parades, how many have you got to say that?
    According to unionists like you they ALL are opposed to Orange parades and ‘hate our culture’.

    I can show you where you are wrong, I now ask you to show me where I’m wrong.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    “You are deluded. There is nothing about being a patriot that harms anyone else, nor is there anything to be ashamed of .”

    I never criticised people for being patriots, but I will criticise them for being over the top nationalists which invariably is what a lot of hardline unionists are, much to the potential detriment of the union.

    “you should be one too and leave whatever cult you have been brainwashed with. ”

    Given that I’m an ‘Ulster nationalist’ that’s an odd thing to say.

    (And if there is a ‘cult’ then I’m its leader. And congregation…)

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    So, you can’t accept his point so you just resort to man-playing.

    A sure sign of being stumped…

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Obviously because they’re libtard traitors…

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Only in Fealtyland. Some people have been so brainwashed that they are better off ignored. Speaking if which, I’m not sure why I am even bothering replying here…

  • MainlandUlsterman

    You can use any of those terms. People shape their environments and are shaped by their environments at the same time. We’re all a lot less the choosers of our own views than we like to think we are and young people are no different.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    I can see little that is “over the top” or unreasonable in the circumstances from many Unionists you denounce as “hardline”. It is people like you who constantly attack unionism and who give the impression to others that the reasonable is unreasonable by not explaining the circumstance.

    You clearly are part of the modern “progressive” cult where it is seen to be virtuous to never stand up for you own.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    “I can see little that is “over the top” or unreasonable in the circumstances from many Unionists you denounce as “hardline”. ”

    Of course you can’t, that’s fully what I expect.

    “It is people like you who constantly attack unionism and who give the impression to others that the reasonable is unreasonable by not explaining the circumstance.”

    Examples please.

    “You clearly are part of the modern “progressive” cult where it is seen to be virtuous to never stand up for you own.”

    That’s just something that you made up. This blog has over 3000 comments from me, if I find any that show me sticking up for ‘my own’ then you’ll be proven incorrect.

    Stop making things up and just address the points put to you, if you can’t do that then what’s the point in posting here.

    If I’m wrong you’ll be able to explain why and cite examples, but you have yet to do so.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Correct.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    I see, so, outwith Fealtyland when you put a point to someone and they ignore it and insult you do you then think “they sure showed me” or do you think “ha! They couldn’t even engage the point I was making and instead resorted to insults”?

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    I still can’t see any “point” being made in what I replied to nor in the drivel you are making.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    In Shane’s case he was simply explaining that he doesn’t have any strong feelings on the matter of the union.

    Rather than accept this you chose to insult him.

  • Georgie Best

    This is a version of the usual “Unionists are more important people than nationalists”. The fact that the name of the city has not been officially changed is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of NI. Unionists occupy one part of the country and claim that they should be allowed do their own thing, but if people want to do their own thing in their own city then all sorts of hypocrisy is used to justify preventing this. If people want to use the term Londonderry then they should be allow do so, but it should not appear on official documents, road signs or the like, as it does not reflect the majority preference in this respect.

  • 05OCT68

    I seems that you’ve come to the conclusion that European citizenship is at least as important as British or Irish. John Hume has to be given credit for promoting the benefits of EU membership here (and a pity he was not well enough to campaign in the referendum) to Nationalists. His point being that it does not matter that some are British & others Irish we are all European citizens. Both countries being in Europe & all its citizens European made the GFA agreement a much easier to implement. Brexit was a game changer within Nationalism although it was heartening that NI voted remain the fact that the largest Unionist party campaigned & many Unionists voted to leave is seen as a betrayal of the GFA. Now what really irked me was the fact that one of the DUP’s most high profile members Ian Óg told Unionists to get an Irish passport if they could. Hypocrisy on an other level. To be honest if a British citizen voted remain & now applies for an Irish passport I don’t have a problem with that, at least there is no hypocrisy they value European citizenship. I advocated stopping holding both British & Irish passports simultaneously to stymie Brexiteers that wanted free movement for themselves but not others.

  • MalikHills

    If you are an Irish nationalist then the official name of the city is already Derry, or Doire in the first national language of the state, so why would you concern yourself about what the British called the city?

    What business is it of yours what Queen Elizabeth calls your city so long as she allows you to freely use the name that you choose?

    You are entitled to use your chosen version of the name on all official documents, so why do you insist that your version of the name, and only your version, be used and that people of a different viewpoint be deprived by the government to which they give allegiance of the right to use their chosen nomenclature?

    As long as the state to which you owe allegiance calls your city by the correct name what business is it of yours what other people and other governments call it?

  • MalikHills

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make to me specifically, I haven’t made any allusion to Ian Paisley and as I pointed out I have no idea what version of the county’s name is used in the GPO replica as it is the only county whose name doesn’t appear.

  • Granni Trixie

    In the referendum campaign emphasis appeared to be on economic arguments with insufficient attention given to cultural, an especially beneficial input as Ni is so insular in outlook. A publication of a LP annual conference in Brighton 1962 suggests that the latter seemed to be used by delegates as the main argument in favour of joining the common market to counter those against. In passing, I was browsing to see if Ni was on the agenda at all and ofcourse it was not due to prevailing conventions.

    Though I voted to remain I think I underestimated the emotional element of belonging to the EU.

  • 05OCT68

    I think you alluded that Londonderry might have been used in the GOP in 1916, I merely pointed out that the GPO was the GCHQ of its day & unsurprising that Londonderry may have been used. If it is a replica of the sorting office circa 1916 maybe the nameplate was removed by the rebels & the replica reflects that. As for Ian Paisley my point being we now have an upswing of Unionists wanting Irish passports, Unionists that pre Brexit wouldn’t have considered holding one, now Unionists from Derry have won the right to have Londonderry as county of birth but remember they could have chosen not to have an Irish passport, Nationalists in NI have no choice but to use British documentation bar passports so it is right that Derry is recognized.

  • hollandia

    Clearly, you’ve never been to Amsterdam.

  • Skibo

    Brendan care to suggest a Sinn Fein seat where Alliance would come anywhere near challenging the Sinn Fein incumbent?
    At the moment Unionism looks on the Alliance as a Lundy and lime green party.

  • Brendan Heading

    Nuala McAllister was 500 votes behind Carál Ní Chuilín in North Belfast last March.

  • Skibo

    Brendan you mentioned Alliance taking an MP seat off SF and yet you raise an MLA example. SF and Alliance are very close to the policies of Alliance, as are SDLP. All three could form a socialist alliance if we could ever get past constitutional politics.
    I believe the Greens and PBP would sit to the left of such an alliance.

  • Shane Greer

    Says a person hiding behind a pseudonym…

    Nevertheless, I hope things in your life improve.