European Council guidelines argue “flexible and imaginative solutions will be required”

The European Council have published their guidelines for the Brexit negotiations that will now take place.

Readers of the site will be happy to know that Northern Ireland does get a mention

Then there was also this

 

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  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    When asked in polls most people say they are happy with the status quo.

    With Brexit and the collapse of the Assembly that status quo is gone and it’s not coming back.

    When it becomes increasingly evident that Theresa May and her lackeys haven’t a clue as to what they are doing and that Brexit is going to be chaotic. The slogan ‘Ireland: United in Europe’ is going to look increasingly attractive to those who are ambivalent or unaligned on the constitutional question. Nationalism needs to hammer home the message that a united Ireland is the only way for the North to get back into the EU.

    A century or so ago, some words were written that are written that are apt for the Brexit era.

    “All changed, changed utterly:
    A terrible beauty is born.”

  • DrMark

    When the EU totally self destructs (and it will), the UK will have positioned itself favourably in a life outside of this dysfunctional setup, just as in an unhealthy marriage, neither parties can be truely happy thus it has been with the EU,
    Junckers et al are really good on their threats and intimidation but this is only a sign of their collective fear that they are now facing the end of their dream of a politically united and integrated Europe.
    Enough of the bullying rhetoric already and a free uk outside of these bullies can only be a good and healthy thing,

  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    I’ll bet you a shiny penny that in 20 years There will still be a European Union but there won’t be a United Kingdom constituted as we know it today.

  • Jeff

    Hi Conchur,

    Have to disagree. There is a narrative that you and others are espousing that the government are in chaos over brexit, I have to disagree, they are taking their time and preparing for what will be hard negotiations. However it is in everyone’s interest to come to an accord on brexit and a favourable outcome to all. A disadvantaged UK will severely damage the EU and most particularly the Republics economy. I’d be careful what you wish for in that respect

  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    I’m basing my predictions on articles like this which suggest that the British Brexit negotiating team is totally and utterly clueless

    http://www.politico.eu/article/britains-brexit-denial/

  • ulidian

    Quite possible, but much of that will have nothing to do with Brexit, particularly in Scotland.

  • Jeff

    I think you will find that after the posturing from both sides common ground will be found.

  • DrMark

    When you look at current eurosceptics, the French, Dutch, Greeks and Central Europeans have strong anti eu movements already gaining ground, if Marine Lapen wins in France (and it is possible), the whole house of cards could tumble more rapidly than you might imagine, either way, the EU is a doomed failed project that will sooner or later self implode to reflect the public’s dissatisfaction with the whole institutions that have repeatedly failed to work

  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    Of course the EU will one day fall apart. It’s a historical inevitablity that eventually that all European political projects hit the buffers at one point or another. Whether it’s the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire or the Rule of Hapsburgs generally things change but usually after a few hundred years of having a pretty good run of things.

    What Eurosceptics in the UK forget is how much a forever project the EU is for most European political parties. Unlike the people on these islands nearly every single person on the European continent has a family/personal memory or national story related to what happened the last few times Europe fell out with one another. The entirety of mainstream European political thought is based on keeping the show together because the memories of what happened without European Unity are far too fresh. A few fascist head the balls aren’t going to change that. If the EU approaches the problems that humanity collectively faces properly then it should be ok. Hopefully one day humanity will learn to work together properly and look after the planet that we happened to emerge upon.

    BTW. Going by recent polling Le Pen has a snowmans chance in hell of getting into the Elysée. And French polling is pretty reliable.

  • Katyusha

    I have to disagree, they are taking their time and preparing for what will be hard negotiations.

    Really? To me it looks like they are preparing for an election, which looks like a crazy distraction when the countdown on Brexit is already running.

  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    Maybe but I’ve little hope. Theresa May has proved herself to be a bit of a no hoper.

  • Jeff

    well Conchur, a little hope is better than none. She is clearly not brilliant at comebacks and off the cuff wit as is clear at PM questions, however she is showing herself to be of sterner stuff in other areas, i.e. Her dealings with Scotland’s first minister and I believe she will be excellent in the upcoming negotiations on brexit.

  • Fear Éireannach

    The EU is willing to show the flexibility required to save stability in NI. Sadly all the indications are that the British, who are responsible for NI, are not willing to do anything that does not suit the Conservative Party and the Daily Mail and if peace in NI has to be sacrificed then what of it.

  • Jeff

    It’s perfect timing to potentially increase her majority and personal mandate (She was accused of not having one). Allied to this both France and Germany have their own elections taking place and nothing much can/will happen until the dust had settled on the outcome of those

  • ted hagan

    I wouldn’t bet on either.

  • North Down dup

    If I was a beting man I will say in 20 years Republic Of Ireland will be out of Europe, there won’t be a European union as we know it today

  • DrMark

    As the Russians embraced communism (not), and when the wall came down there wasn’t a red to be seen anymore as it will be for the EU and its fair weather supporters

  • ulidian

    Why should the Northern Irish tail wag the English dog? If people in NI don’t like what emerges, then they can vote themselves out of the UK. I doubt the majority in England will be too perturbed – it’ll save them billions.

  • ulidian

    In my experience Eurosceptics are perfectly aware of the devotion of many continentals to the “project”. It’s not something many millions of us here share, hence our joy at getting shot of it.

  • NotNowJohnny

    Surely the UK won’t be disadvantaged as a result of Brexit. Sure the whole point of Brexit in the first place was to stop the UK being disadvantaged. Am I missing something here?

  • Philip Murphy

    This does not sound like an ounce of common ground was found so far. I think things are going to rapidly turn sour.

  • Philip Murphy

    Posturing is reserved for the electorate. This was a private dinner that apparently led to Juncker calling Merkel first thing the following morning to tell her that May is away with the fairies.

  • NotNowJohnny

    Are you saying here that there won’t be an EU and Ireland won’t be in it?

  • NotNowJohnny

    Perhaps the more interesting question is why should the English dog wag the Northern Ireland tail?

  • NotNowJohnny

    If the EU is such a dysfunctional set up why do you think no previous UK Tory government sought to withdraw from the EU? Not even the one that oversaw the referendum.

  • Conchúr Ó Conghaile

    Theresa May could have her party win every single seat in the House of Commons and it wouldn’t effect the EUs approach to the Brexit negotiations in the slightest.

  • North Down dup

    Sorry I will make it more clearer, I think in 20 year’s time the Republic will not be in the eu, there will be an eu in 20 years but nothing like it is 2day, France will be the next big country to vote to leave the eu probably in the next 10 years

  • Jeff

    I don’t think we need to take seriously what Juncker says, he was probably hung over!!

  • Philip Murphy

    Am I on the Daily Express website by mistake?

  • DrMark

    Because the small number in charge of the Tories were part and parcel of the charade and overrode the majority in the country for years and years by denying a plebiscite on membership, call me Dave gambled and lost, God bless him

  • NotNowJohnny

    Was this majority you refer to real or imaginary over the years? And just how long has there been a majority in the country in favour of leaving the European project?

  • Fear Éireannach

    Any society has to have concern for all its citizens. Brexit has most effect in NI and so NI should be the main concern in this issue in any responsible and mature society.

  • Charlie Farlie

    Britain has convinced itself that it has just performed one of the slightest hand-movements of any populace in modern times in their mind ‘leaving Europe to collapse’, without it sinking in that half a billion people in 27 united nations are currently laughing at Britain’s stupidity and will watch with gleeful interest as the pound starts to drop after the final pull out is done.

    Theresa May knows this, she cannot even debate the issues prior to the election as she doesn’t know what they are because she’s waiting to find out what Europe decides to tell her to do. You couldn’t make it up.

    Importantly though for Europe, an example will have to be made of Britain to make it seem unattractive for other member states to withdraw. The Irish situation offers one opportunity of embarrassment for Britain, and can be arranged through the current legislation and incentivised by Europe. I do believe that Europe will make it to Ireland’s benefit that it should come into the EU on a 32 county basis. And Unionism knows it, even though it seems to be in some sort of an ostrich type denial over it.

    I always believed that separate to hardline Loyalists, moderate Unionists, were Unionists solely for economic reasons. It will be very interesting to see whether or not it will now be more economically beneficial to be in a United Ireland under Europe as I have a feeling it will be made worth our while. Suddenly, if that happens, demographics change forever. Interesting times!

  • Fear Éireannach

    Will unionist loyalty to the half crown transfer to the €0.14?

  • Charlie Farlie

    Whether we like it or not, the EU is the body who was financially propping up a peace dividend in this place. Westminster gave a paltry sum compared to what is needed to grow the North into any type of workable entity, not to mention the huge losses as a result of a two tiered system on an Island this size.

    Once Unionism starts to see how much their beloved parliament really cares once Europe is gone, then yes, I think they will be smart enough to place pragmatism over historical foolery.

  • NotNowJohnny

    Indeed. Best to focus on what she says when she’s not speaking of the cuff. Here’s what she said prior to the referendum.

    “I think the economic arguments are clear. I think being part of a 500-million trading bloc is significant for us. I think, as I was saying to you a little earlier, that one of the issues is that a lot of people will invest here in the UK because it is the UK in Europe. If we were not in Europe, I think there would be firms and companies who would be looking to say, do they need to develop a mainland Europe presence rather than a UK presence? So I think there are definite benefits for us in economic terms.” (Wiki)

  • NotNowJohnny

    Any ideas on which country will be next to join the EU?

  • Jeff

    Clearly she was arguing for remain as I did, however we lost the vote and now need to negotiate the best possible case for the UK. In my opinion she will do this well.

  • Jeff

    The approx £10 billion that Northern Ireland gains from being part of the uk per annum is paltry!

  • ted hagan

    ‘the EU is the body who was financially propping up a peace dividend in this place’.
    Let’s see your figures for this statement, and I mean by that EU money specifically for the peace process.

  • Salmondnet

    If the tail doesn’t like it is free to detach itself. Somewhat unusually, not wagging is an option.

  • Philip Murphy

    The UK lol

  • North Down dup

    There are five recognised candidates for future membership for the EU.
    Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania and Serbia

  • Reader

    Charlie Farlie: …not to mention the huge losses as a result of a two tiered system on an Island this size.
    Efficiency savings = job losses.
    ..so what are you offering to the pragmatists?

  • Nevin

    “Readers of the site will be happy to know that Northern Ireland does get a mention”

    It doesn’t; it’s just implicit. The UK can expect to get the same or similar rough treatment meted out by Germany and the Eurocrats to Ireland and the other PIIGS. The very notion of Germany and the Eurocrats being ‘flexible and imaginative’ is laughable; the Eurocrats will have less public funds to distribute so weakening their patronage.

  • Jeff

    Efficiency savings = job losses.

    Absolutely, Sinn Fein talk about efficiency savings from dual systems being disbanded but don’t give us concrete answers on what will replace the thousands and thousands of job losses this will create.

  • NotNowJohnny

    I believe that the impediment to detachment are the descendants of those brought over by the English dog who, somewhat mistakenly, think that Northern Ireland is part of the English dog and wish to continue to be wagged by it.

  • NotNowJohnny

    Clearly she was arguing here for membership of the single market. The question is why she thought this was the best case then but she doesn’t think it is now.

  • Gopher

    “pragmatism over historical foolery”

    With Europe you know what you get a quasi socialist system for Germany to dump its manufactured surplus on and tarrifs to prop up the agricultural sector. Not much is going to radically change there. With Brexit you dont know what your going to get but I would imagine it will go in completely the opposite direction for the simple reason the internal market at 65 million souls is too small. In all times in the past, virtually since Constatine was the first Eastern European refugee to these shores in the third century Britain has found the solution to Brexit. From Henry the VII in the first modern brexit practically putting Flanders out of buisness to defeating Napoleons continental system, Britain has found the answer to Brexit and came out stronger. Why and How? Because in striving and being out of ones comfort zone to push oneself is a happy state for man and bring out those fine qualities we each have. I do not think today our little mongrel race at the edge of Europe are any different from those of earlier ages that coped with harder Brexits every generation. It might take a few years and it might be quite an adventure but now its here lets get on with it.

    “Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
    Push off, and sitting well in order smite
    The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
    To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
    Of all the western stars, until I die.”

  • Fear Éireannach

    Especially as she might do this without a majority of voters.

  • Fear Éireannach

    I think people expect the proportion of private sector jobs to rise to that of the ROI, once malign rule from London has ended.

  • Abucs

    Turkey, although I hear there are sections in Syria who are eyeing the place out.

  • Abucs

    I don’t think Lapen will win but if she does it would be close to game over. I think the EU is much weaker without the UK, and especially weaker if it looks to be antagonistic towards the UK after Brexit and this might also trigger breakdown.

  • Abucs

    Unless Germany are going to declare war on the UK then people’s personal / family memory of leaving the EU will be one of peaceful transition with greater local government democracy like the break-up of Czechoslovakia. That may well sound enticing to many people.

  • Reader

    NotNowJohnny: I believe that the impediment to detachment are the descendants of those brought over by the English dog who, somewhat mistakenly, think that Northern Ireland is part of the English dog and wish to continue to be wagged by it.
    Ah, right. Voters are the impediment.

  • Philip Murphy

    By Eurocrats do you mean the elected heads of government in the council who have agreed a common framework for the forthcoming negotiations?

    Do you have the same problem with hiring 10k burocrats for Whitehall to handle Brexit or are unelected burocrats only bad when they’re foreign?

    Is the UK a little baby or a grown up country? The Brexiteers said the EU would be eating out of British ministers’ hands during any negotiations so what’s all this about rough treatment?

  • Nevin

    Philip, I’m think of the EU bureaucracy. The elected heads of government have acted like sheep; they nodded through the framework within a few minutes.

  • Philip Murphy

    The EU27 side is simply far better prepared, having begun the behind the scenes stuff immediately after the vote in June. The national governments have been working towards a common framework for weeks now. There simply wasn’t much to discuss as things have already been thrashed out with Tusk jetsetting all around the EU for the past few weeks. He appears to have done a good job.

  • NotNowJohnny

    You didn’t already know that?

  • Nevin

    And not one dissenting voice?

  • Nevin

    “so what’s all this about rough treatment?”

    Philip, yesterday you posted, “As will most RoI voters. They won’t vote for a pig in a poke like our British cousins and Brexit.”

    Well, the PIIGS certainly got poked and Ireland voters got to keep voting until they came up with the right EU answer.

  • Michael Dowds

    I graduated from Queens in 2011.

    Due to the economic chaos caused by the financial crisis in 2008/2009, I’ve spent 7 of the last 8 years living outside of Northern Ireland as this is the only way to ensure secure employment.

    The ‘adventure’ you speak of will have very REAL consequences for those at the most vulnerable end of the economic spectrum.

    Your ideological, and some might say fanciful, narrative about the grit of those in these north westerly isles is of little comfort.

    The real world is a real thing. Brexit is really going to happen and it will have real consequences. Some, perhaps most of those consequences will be bad for Northern Ireland.

    Wishful (‘delusional’) thinking changes none of that.

  • Gopher

    Northern Ireland nor infact the Republic has a devine right to an endless pool of jobs for graduates economic crisis or not, so I’m surprised at your shock of having to move away to find employment.

    The “adventure” may also provide opportunity for those prepared to take it, depending on the state the UK can create post Brexit.

    I’m not sure it is ideological to suggest man strives in adversity and the challenge has a tendacy to bring out his best traits unless of course he is a mugwump.

    You dont know what the consequences are of Brexit, predesdination I have never believed in nor do I start an enterprise defeated before I commence it.

    There is no fanciful narrative of these Isles just people who got off their backsides and got things done taking hard knocks along the way but getting up and going again. I think you are the delusional one, because rest assured people like that still exist.

    “Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield”

  • Reader

    Fear Éireannach: I think people expect the proportion of private sector jobs to rise to that of the ROI, once malign rule from London has ended.
    Because with another 6 counties Ireland will be able to attract extra FDI that is currently unavailable?

  • Reader

    NotNowJohnny: You didn’t already know that?
    It’s reassuring to know I haven’t been wasting my time voting.

  • Michael Dowds

    I didn’t mention the Republic (presumably of Ireland), nor did I express shock. I don’t think any rational person would assume a Devine right to an endless supply of graduate jobs. That wouldn’t make sense. Who thinks that? I’m not sure where your first paragraph is coming from.

    The adventure may indeed provide opportunities for people. The financial crisis certainly did. (The reference is a little old but have a look https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/26/recession-rich-britains-wealthiest-double-net-worth-since-crisis). That being said, I’m guessing you mean opportunities of the more quotidian sort. Those kinds of opportunities that the common man with a whit of wit can work to his (or her) advantage. Well, that’s an obvious point, non? Change means winners and losers. So what?

    I’m going to skip over the use of mugwump. ?

    People getting up off their backsides after hard knocks is a narrative. The sentence is loaded. Its a version of ‘getting on yer bike’.

    The point that you’ve avoided is that, poetic flurries aside, Brexit is likely to have a very negative impact on Northern Ireland in the short to medium term. This will negatively affect real people in real ways in the short to medium term. Long term advantages (if there are any) are cold comfort to those of us starting on salaries that haven’t increased for 15 years (despite cost of living increases).

    Telling people that it is morally good to just ‘put up’ with the wrong headed, ideological and frankly moronic decisions of others is ludicrous.

    Poetic rhetoric doesn’t pay the mortgage or put food on the table. I live in a place called the real world, I hope as many other people as possible can come live here too.

    #canteataflag

  • NotNowJohnny

    If you voted in the recent assembly election you may well have been wasting your time.

  • Gopher

    Money puts food on the table and saving it gets you a mortgage. If you are prepared to work you wont have difficulty doing either, that is the real world and there is absolutely no need to eat a flag. Perhaps you should read some Tennyson, it might motivate you to get something with better career prospects. Maybe you should also abandon the socialism if its not working out for you.

    No doubt there will be challenges ahead, but for me an agnostic on the EU there is no point looking over your shoulder its gone. Every backward glance is a waste of energy

    “I am a part of all that I have met;
    Yet all experience is an arch wherethro’
    Gleams that untravell’d world whose margin fades
    For ever and forever when I move.
    How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
    To rust unburnish’d, not to shine in use!”

  • Timothyhound

    InvestNI are having a terrible time at the moment. There’s hardly any interest in Northern Ireland at the moment. Partly because of uncertainty partly because the mid term doesn’t look great.

  • Charlie Farlie

    You didn’t read the whole sentence, either that or you chose to ignore my point.

  • Charlie Farlie

    Please don’t give me homework Ted, I’m snowed under a rock here 😉 Except to say that I worked closely for years with all the Peace monies coming into this place, I know what it did and who it benefited, and it benefited a lot more working class people than any Westminster Governmental scheme thats for sure. And thats not even touching the agricultural subsidies, of which I know less about but enough to know it will be missed.

  • Charlie Farlie

    Don’t agree! This utopian paradisal people you speak of are a world away to me. Lets see!

  • ted hagan

    You’re ducking the question. I reckon it’s around 1.5bn sterling over the past 20 years.

  • Philip Murphy

    Reading this I would say the UK government and especially May are indeed in chaos over Brexit!! If even half true this article is a damning indictment of your party and it’s leadership… https://m.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/04/30/the-uk-government-is-completely-deluded-about-brexit/?s=ForeignAffairs

  • Reader

    NotNowJohnny: If you voted in the recent assembly election you may well have been wasting your time.
    People here on Slugger have been digesting the Assembly votes for two months. I’m just glad to have done my part in taking their minds off Brexit.

  • Michael Dowds

    Apologies, it appears that I’ve wasted your time and mine, I hadn’t realised that you were tollling.

    Best of luck.

  • Fear Éireannach

    The proportion of world FDI coming to the ROI is small, it can grow by another third, especially as the ROI will be pretty much at full capacity in a couple more years.

  • Reader

    Fear Éireannach: The proportion of world FDI coming to the ROI is small, it can grow by another third, especially as the ROI will be pretty much at full capacity in a couple more years.
    Aren’t there a few hundred thousand Irish people still living in GB, who might prefer to soak up that extra capacity rather than continue to live in a post Brexit English hellhole?

  • Fear Éireannach

    No doubt several thousand of these will move to Ireland, perhaps to the newly liberated 6 counties. But people have houses, families and so on and will stick it out in Britain in the hope of sanity returning there.