Theresa May is unmoved by Celtic frustrations over her Brexit stance

After Trump and Turkey week for Theresa May but with the aftershocks still shaking the bones,  Brexit week with the Celts must seem like an anti- climax. Despite all the warms words there is no sign that Mrs May is taking the pro-EU positions of two and half of the three devolved administrations even slightly seriously. The briefings before today’s Cardiff meeting could hardly be more underwhelming.

We will not agree on everything, but that doesn’t mean we will shy away from the necessary conversations and I hope we will have further constructive discussions today.

“We have also had the Supreme Court judgment which made clear beyond doubt that relations with the EU are a matter for the UK government and UK Parliament. We should not forget that that means MPs representing every community in the UK will be fully involved in the passage of Article 50 through Parliament.”

It looks as if she’s content to let Nicola stew in her own dilemma as the polls repeatedly show the failure of  Brexit to boost support for a second indyref.   She seems unmoved as Nicola turns up the volume.

 

Our own new all-woman leadership ( if we can call it that,  shorn of titles and most of their ministerial positions) are getting their first joint outing and will expose their differences over Brexit and its implications.  A split Northern Ireland non-Executive hardly presents much of an immediate challenge.

Sinn Fein have made their position melodramatically clear. But Arlene Foster apart from  adopting her by now familiar  dismissive attitude, has not spelt out how she thinks Brexit will benefit Northern Ireland. Indeed on the contrary the most detailed analysis she signed up to was her joint letter with Martin McGuinness highlighting the problems.  Trust Theresa and cleave hard to the Tories is the thrust.

Whatever the divisions over Brexit, they have not prevented the new northern Sinn Fein leader Michelle O’Neill suggesting that Sinn Fein ”can do business” with the DUP after the election. This is an unexpectedly positive sign, or setting the DUP up to fail. Let’s hope the former.

Later in the week Theresa May heads for Dublin where nervous pessimism reigns  and similar ignorance of how the British intend to confront the problems for Ireland of a UK outside the single market. Can Theresa get away with offering no specifics beyond the present “ clarity”?  On form, you bet she can.

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  • Enda

    I’d pronounce it (mud jun mhoy) but then I’m hardly fluent myself.

  • grumpy oul man

    No not a fact. Read the GFA agreement you are entitled to be British and thats your right i am entitled to be Irish and that is my right and i chose to excerise it.

  • grumpy oul man

    Scotland will have a choice remain part of the UK or join Europe ,
    The last referendum was close Brexit will mske more people vote for interdependence at the next referendum.
    The arrogant attitude of the English can only help.

  • grumpy oul man

    Nice old fashioned unionist insult there, but you see i pay taxes and get no benefits, and i am quite willing to do a deal with the British government, if it returns every penny i have paid in tax and national insurance (with the appropriate interest) then i wont trouble them for the pension i have paid for.
    We are not the people who Harold Wilson called scroungers and we are not the people who cry that we cant live without English handouts so keep your queens money insults to yourself!

  • file

    Fluent enough to correct someone who is though? You say tomatoes … words can be pronounced differently; there are regional variations in Irish as well as in English.

  • North Down

    That insult wasn’t to you, it was between me and enda,

  • North Down

    I through myself it was way way in the past to , then I looked it up and says if born in the UK you can be called a British subject

  • North Down

    I didn’t call you a Britain, but your born a UK citizen , like it are not

  • grumpy oul man

    so you admit it was a insult, and it sounded like a general insult typical of the old unionist nonsense when they would not let Catholics have jobs then accused them of being dole scroungers.
    If you throw out a stereotypical insult of the ” take the queens money type” then don’t be surprised if people get offended,

  • North Down

    Yes and be as Irish as you want and don’t let people tell you otherwise, but still your born a UK citizen , which mean your a British citizen by birth, but because of the GFA you can be an Irish citizen and you have the best of both worlds

  • grumpy oul man

    No i was not born a UK citizen, we here have always had a choice to pick our citizenship both my parents had Irish passports, i chose to be Irish when i applied for my passport which i applied for in 1972 long before the GFA.
    Let this sink in, I am Not nor have i ever been a British citizen,
    I live in a part of Ireland occupied by the British but the does not and never has made me British is that plain enough for you.

  • North Down

    No, you were born a UK citizen , this is what I call denial , you were British before you applied before you got your Irish paspot then, you may not like it but you are both

  • North Down

    No most people would have worked it out it was for him, I know you are a very bitter person with a lot of hate to anything British deep down you know am right

  • grumpy oul man

    No i was born a Irish citizen, if you cannot accept that fact then it is your problem not mine.
    The Irish government and the British government before i was even thought off agreed that in this place we could be either or both and we would decide our own citizenship with neither government claiming us (try to understand this), i chose Irish.
    Now i will repeat one last time I was never a British citizen try to understand that it is a fact, i regard you calling me a British citizen insulting.

  • Skibo

    ND Westminster was part of all negotiations as the EU increased. Do not fall into the trap of saying it is not democratic. As far as I am aware the UK would have had a veto on all legislation until recently.
    As for economists, we heard plenty from those espousing the views of a Brexit debacle. I don’t remember any confirming any different but if you can supply a few quotes it would be useful.
    Economists work with mathematical equations and forecasts. They are just that forecasts just as the weather is a forecast. They have a difficulty with finding the perfect equation as this is something not tried before. Could that suggest in itself that it is not prudent.

  • Skibo

    The Scottish question is not as simple as all that. There are pro and anti EU activists on both sides. The main issue will be if the UK proceeds with Brexit without taking on-board the views of Scotland. To do so will result in Scotland leaving the UK after Brexit due to the issue of the democracy of Scotland being ignored.
    Expect plans for a Scottish pound in the event of SNP being ignored.

  • grumpy oul man

    Am no i am not a bitter person, but you seem to think that anybody who takes exception to your stereotypes is bitter,
    Your insult to Edna, tell me you just threw it out there at him, why did you do that, how do you know he after the money because it sounded like a familiar old unionist mantra about nationalists and why would you just come up with it unless that’s what you believe nationalists do.
    And i don’t think most people would have worked it was just for him because it has been used to insult every nationalist in the past.

  • johnny lately

    Where did you get the notion that the currency called Sterling belongs to the Queen ND or ever did ?

  • johnny lately

    Yes I suppose thats a DUP interpretation of the British nationality act 1981 but just like people born in Scotland are Scottish people born in Ireland are Irish you are no more a British citizen than someone born in Hong Kong claiming British citizenship, your citizenship depends on membership of a club whereas my Irish citizenship is a birthright that cannot be changed. I’m sure you’ll understand the difference when Brexit happens and you must prove your citizenship to enter another part of the United Kingdom you claim you are an integral part of.

  • Jollyraj

    Nope. Have you?

  • Jollyraj

    Fermanagh, under the bow tie. That’s as specific as it gets on the net.

  • North Down

    Am born a UK citizen, and so are you by birth , so you have two citizenships, it’s not hard to understand, there is hundreds of links out there telling u being born in the UK makes you a UK citizen

  • North Down

    You’ve lost me, he was being funny at me I was being funny back, it didn’t literally mean the way you are taking it up

  • North Down

    No mate, banter between me and Edna, you have taken it up wrong

  • Annie Breensson

    Two citizenships, perhaps – but only one identity.

    For example, are people born in the Israeli occupied West Bank area of Palestine Israeli or Palestinian? Arab or Jew?

  • North Down

    YES agree, spot on

  • johnny lately

    This will maybe clear things up for you ND

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/how-to-move-to-ireland-and-get-an-irish-passport-a7358191.html

    “How to move to Ireland and get an Irish passport

    Check you’re not already an Irish citizen.-

    If you were born on the island of Ireland (that includes Northern
    Ireland) before 31 December 2004, you are already an Irish citizen, and you’re eligible for a passport.”

  • North Down

    Two citizenshipsides 1 adenity, people should never take your Irish identity away

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Maybe she’ll be moved when she goes down in history as one of the pair of tory politicians who gave the coup de grace to the UK. She and Cameron seem to be a perfectly matched pair of incompetents – here’s to their good health. (Well, May’s anyway – who cares about Cameron now?)

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    No point in growing a spine when you have no moral flesh to put on it’s bones. (As evidenced by her recent needy grovelling to Trump and Erdogan – as if they’ll save the Brexited economy. Still, I suppose she has no choice but to grasp at straws).

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Perfect word for Theresa! It will be on her Armorial Device when she goes to the House of Lords. “I cleaved the UK of GB & NI”

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    That’s because she isn’t that interested and doesn’t care.

  • Reader

    johnny lately: Is Gregory Campbell now a republican ?
    Is Danny Morrison not a republican?

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Why would we vote for any kind of border with England? We will be part of the EU, and as part of the EU, we will decide as a group, including Ireland, what we want the borders to be like. If the rUK want’s to decide differently, that’s up to them.

  • Reader

    Skibo: But they could work within the black economy or do those jobs locals do not want to do.
    Why bother competing in the race to the bottom with illegals from all over the world; with Ireland just next door, fat and juicy and offering all the privileges of EU citizenship?

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Aye. That’s the case. The continuing mockery of Scottish representation in Westminster, where Scottish MP’s putting forward motions in the Scottish interest are ALWAYS outvoted and contradicted by the overwhelming mass of English MP’s is now unsustainable

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Aye. The English voter does not see the NI Unionists as being ‘English’ They are just seen as being an annoying overseas anomaly which represents a drain on the economy – basically – just a problem they could easily do without.

  • Reader

    BonaparteOCoonassa: Why would we vote for any kind of border with England?
    Of course you won’t have a vote on the nature of the border. But once you see how it’s likely to be, you might have a vote on whether to create one.

  • Reader

    grumpy oul man: Scotland will have a choice remain part of the UK or join Europe
    I said as much, and I outlined the two possible scenarios. Will you work your way through those two cases, or stick to comforting rhetoric?

  • Katyusha

    Almost the entire northern electorate are Irish.
    If you’re born in Ireland (the island) and have at least one parent who lives in Ireland (the island), you’re Irish by birth.

    That some people choose not to exercise the privileges that their citizenship grants them is neither here nor there.

  • johnny lately

    No he’s a republican but the quote JR is referring to was claimed to be made by Danny Morrison by Gregory Campbell of the DUP JR has yet been unable to produce any other credible evidence other than Gregory’s accusation.

  • Skibo

    You were pointing out that foreign Nationals couldn’t find work in NI. I have pointed out where they could.
    Some would have you believe that is what Brexit will lead to, a race to the bottom and employees at the bottom taking the brunt of the pain.
    With Ireland next door fat and juicy will result in more and more NI citizens working the other side of the border

  • Reader

    Skibo, I am sure there are already illegal immigrants working for below the minimum wage in the UK. I don’t celebrate that; and I’m wondering why EU citizens would choose to join them. Do you really think that’s likely to be the best option for any EU citizen after Brexit?
    And, supposing it is, is the UK really going to be a worse place with Poles jostling with Somalis for illegal jobs?

  • Reader

    BonaparteOCoonasa: …Scottish MP’s putting forward motions in the Scottish interest…
    See, there’s your problem. Westminster is where decisions are made based on the interests of the UK as a whole as decided by 650 UK MPs. Scotland has its own Parliament and devolved powers – including unused tax raising powers – that allow the SNP to shape Scotland according to their will.
    It’s the English that suffer a democratic deficit.

  • North Down

    Neither here nor there,it is when we had to vote on brixit, that’s what this was all about read the very first post

  • North Down

    What the he’ll are you talking about, read the very first post it was got to with brixit, then you jumped in , I know you’re an Irish citizen when did I say you were not, all I was saying your also a UK citizen by birth

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    A moments (unprejudiced) attention would show that Scotlands parliament does not have the appropriate tools to ‘shape Scotland according to their will.’

    To go from that to ‘the English . . . suffer a democratic deficit’ is pure “Newspeak” – George Orwell would appreciate your homage.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    If that’s a reference to leaving the UK, you are right – we will be.

    But why are you so keen to keep us? Most English commentators seem fixated on the erroneous ‘fact’ that we are subsidised by the rest of the UK. If so would you not be better off without our supposed ‘drain on your limited resources’?

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Not an internet troll – just a Unionist one.

  • johnny lately

    “all I was saying your also a UK citizen by birth”

    A typical unionist/loyalist view ND but Im sure every British government understands and realises that after almost a thousand years of Irish opposition to rule from across the pond its became obvious to them that the native Irish are not British nor will they ever be born British, just like people born in India, Pakistan or Hong Kong, their bloodlines predate British jurisdiction, they, ( Irish people) never voted for the union nor did they vote for partition, both were imposed and still opposed today.

  • eamoncorbett

    Different VAT and excise duties apply on each side of the border , post Brexit free movement of goods will be prohibited if what May says is correct , the current system where EU countries reimburse each other with VAT payments will no longer apply , these payments in future will have to be collected at frontiers either side of the divide or electronically if possible when goods are shipped . That’s where the smuggler comes in .

  • North Down

    Are you native Irish, are do you have unionist blood in you, am guessing you have a prodestant surname, I come across loads of catholics with prodestant surnames, what made them catholic was the priest told the wife to be , I will only marry you if you bring up the children catholic, now are they native Irish because there is thousands of them

  • AntrimGael

    Any six nations fan will tell you the Welsh are the most annoying pains in the arse going. Massive chip on their shoulder about the English……. but don’t do anything about it.

  • John Collins

    Well there seeems to be plenty immigrants pitching their tents south of the border. Maybe we should do Trump on it and build a wall

  • Enda

    You called me a pr1ck because you felt I didn’t play nicely, then you refused to spell my name correctly (believe me, it’s not hurtful, i live in Britain, so I get it all the time, but it is petty, and witless), although it is refreshing to see you did spell it correctly this time, albeit missing the capital E. You have no problem using a capital Q when it suits 🙂

  • Enda

    A Britain? No man is an island.

    I don’t disagree that I was born in a part of Ireland that grants me the right to claim British citizenry, but to me that’s just the right to be British by association with a union, and unions are very fickle things. No good sir, my nationality comes from the Irish nation, which is made up of the people of Ireland, which also includes you! This is the nationhood I subscribe to first and foremost, as I am geographically, culturally, and since there is no a better word for it, spiritually attached to Ireland. All the bureaucratic nonsense imposed by our neighboring isle doesn’t change that for me.

    Also, not to sound pedantic, but it’s ‘you’re born’, and ‘or not’. Maybe I’ll forgive you for misspelling my name 🙂

  • Enda

    Why on earth would I appear in a Loyalist apologist’s video?

  • Enda

    So, plenty of the surnames of DUP members have Gaelic roots, ‘here’s some land back if you swear fealty to the crown, and profess the reformed faith!’ Some people are easily bought, not so easy to sell back though. Some Presbyterian settlers also came over with Gaelic names, which would also have been Irish in their origin.

    Harold McCusker, and I share the same surname, which has it’s origins in Gaelic clans out of Fermanagh, and he was the biggest orangeman and unionist you could get – still he was Irish by birth and ancestry (on his paternal side at least).

    So I fail to see the point in your comment.

    The fact of the matter is this: The people of Ireland, have for the most part been a people who desired autonomy and the right to take their place amongst the sovereign nations of the world. There has been some resistance to this over the generations perpetuated by the British state, and aided by the loyal subjects to that state’s interference in Ireland. I’ve never been able to fathom why this loyalty to another country is so strong, and how another person, of a completely different descent and religion for that matter, can be so revered. Wouldn’t you like to put all that silly unionist nonsense behind you, realize that a partitioned isle is a broken isle, forget your imaginary duties to an island that neither wants, needs nor cares about you, and make this island a better, stronger together nation?

    Protestant is spelt with a ‘t’ by the way, coming from ‘to protest’.

  • Jollyraj

    No idea. You asked me the same question, though neither of us are Loyalists or terrorist sympathizers. I have contempt for the criminal thugs that Loyalist terrorists are, just as you have contempt for the criminal thugs that the IRA were.

    Hence I thought it an odd question.

  • Enda

    I simply based my jesting comment on the rhetoric and similar views that wee Wully, and yourself seem to share.

  • Jollyraj

    Interesting.

    All that that really reveals, Enda, is that you are somewhat of a bigot inasmuch as you see all Protestants as basically the same and are blind to the vast differences between myself and Frazer.