Nesbitt: “That decision is to withdraw from the Northern Ireland Executive, to form an Opposition and offer people an alternative, as is the way in any proper democracy.”

A confident Mike Nesbitt walked down the staircase of the Great Hall in Stormont with his parliamentary colleagues to make a significant announcement about the future of the UUP’s involvement in the Executive.

Nesbitt began by speaking of the risks and political pain that his party had taken in the past to secure devolution in Northern Ireland saying;

In 1998, the Ulster Unionist Party stretched itself very close to breaking point to secure the return of Devolution, because it was the right thing to do.

A founding principle of that Agreement was the opportunity to build mutual TRUST between Unionism, Nationalism and Republicanism.

The Unionist leader said that the “Single Transferable Speech of Denial” trotted out by Sinn Fein is “threadbare” and has “put a hole in the fabric of the Agreement.” The party is still committed to the agreement but believes that the revelations of the past two weeks mean that the party has no option but to leave the Executive.

The Officer Board of the party will meet on Saturday to confirm the decision and the parliamentary party has already backed the decision.

Nesbitt says that he believes this can be fixed but he wants an end to paramilitarism (interestingly he didn’t just focus on the IRA)

the IRA need to go away and stop terrorising their own communities

So do the UDA, and UVF and Red Hand Commando – and the rest.

And I wouldn’t argue if they took down their paramilitary flags on the way out.

Our Vision remains that of a Northern Ireland that is totally peaceful and where everyone prospers – republicans, nationalists and unionists equally.

On a historical point this will be the first devolved administration without UUP representation in it in our history and it places the ball in the DUP’s court. In 2001 when the last executive was in trouble, Trimble famously told Gerry Adams “we’ve jumped, you follow,” now Nesbitt has sent that very same message to Peter Robinson.


 

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  • Steve Larson

    There is a significant element in Unionism that believes that the SDLP have no business in the Executive as well, never mind SF.

    The SDLP are as compliant a party as one could ever find in politics but they are still themmuns.

  • eireanne

    trade unionists criticised the stunt by the UUP.
    Unite Belfast Shorts branch secretary Joe Bowers added: “The UUP is acting in a childish way and probably trying to put electoral pressure on the DUP to seek political advantage.”

    He recalled that the UUP formed the Ulster Volunteer Force, which is still active.http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-9de8-Northern-Ireland-UUP-ministers-vow-to-quit-in-IRA-scare?#.Vd5NcfntlBc

  • Pasty2012

    David Ervine said, The DUP Begged the UVF at a meeting in a house on the Shankill Road NOT to Call a Ceasefire – If the DUP didn’t want them to call a Ceasefire what exactly was it the DUP wanted the Terrorist Group to continue doing ? Go On hazard a guess what they used to do to innocent Catholics ?

  • Robin Keogh

    DUP

  • Pasty2012

    This is nothing more than the “Conservative Party of NI” aka the UUP trying to bring about a situation where the Assembly falls and their big sister Party can then bring Austerity by the bucket full to the North. This will really help the Unionist people on the Shankill Road.

  • aquifer

    “We are stauncher than the DUP bla bla” OK the DUP are due some payback for their compulsive control freakery, but is blaming SF really a way to deliver it? When is out DUPing the DUP ever going to work?

    The IRA having lived by the gun needs to protect its own from all sorts of payback from its own side, and all Unionists are far too close to loyalist paramilitaries who continue to murder and threaten, so the principle thing is bogus. Former minister McDowell, who was always ‘sound on Sinn Fein IRA’, calls it: The Irish and British governments deliberately allowed the Provisional IRA to continue as an “unarmed and withering husk” rather than risk a dissident group filling the void left by its disbandment, former minister for justice Michael McDowell has said.(Irish Times). So far so sensible, except Unionism.

  • Gingray

    That is how democracy works barnshee.

    You do realise from your initial post onwards you have been off topic, on a thread about the uup?

    Surely there’s a sf thread you can troll with this nonsense?

  • Gingray

    You sure it’s not the SDLP next?

  • Gingray

    Yet you spend hours online talking about sinn fein, spotting erroneous numbers on a thread about the ulster unionist party.

    Magic

  • Gingray

    Way way off topic again.

  • Gingray

    You are leaping about – one minute it’s politicians you don’t like, but when pushed on that it’s sinn fein supporters.

    And this

    ‘We don’t need political parties. We don’t need elections.’

    Um ok. I live in the real world and for a democracy to work both are needed.

  • Reader

    Austerity is on its way. The question is, do you want it managed competently?

  • Reader

    Re-running d’Hondt with 10 places and no UUP is not the same as continuing d’Hondt down to 11 places.
    However, I’m surprised its the DUP too.

  • Reader

    If he is old enough to recall the 1st UVF, he is old enough to recall that it was disbanded nearly 100 years ago.

  • Zeno

    “Um ok. I live in the real world and for a democracy to work both are needed.”

    I think it was Aristotle who said, in a true democracy the leaders are elected by lot. We don’t need politicians. They divide society.

  • “…did what the IRA told them to do, negotiate”

    I don’t think even the most fervent, swivel-eyed, spittle-flecked republican is likely to support this little fantasy of yours.

    And just to remind you, NI is still in the UK. It seems the IRA didn’t do very well at this negotiation they apparently forced on London.

  • Gingray

    Reader
    Take your point, but it turns out Robin is correct.

    The order of seats would be as follows (figures in brackets are the d’hondt calculations):

    DUP (38)
    SF (29)
    DUP (19)
    DUP (16)
    SF (14.5)
    SDLP (14)
    DUP (12.7)
    SF (9.7)
    DUP (9.5)
    All (8)
    ———
    Next seats would go to

    DUP (7.6)
    SF (7.3)
    SDLP (7)

  • Gingray

    Aristotle also thought that people came in two types – slaves and non slaves. It turns out he was wrong about a good many things.

  • Zeno

    OK if you don’t believe Aristotle or the Ancient Greeks who invented democracy. Tell me why we need them.

  • NotNowJohnny

    If you don’t have politicians then who will take the decisions of government?

  • Zeno

    “50 +1 is the deal under the GFA.
    Nationalist only need one vote in favour for a UI to be created. Slowly slowly……etc”

    Are you attempting to justify the goading now?
    Context is everything. Have a look at when those phrases are used in threads. How many times have we heard that Catholics will soon be a majority and then United Ireland will be achieved ( rammed down the throats of those who don’t want it) cos that’s democracy?
    Are you claiming that when republicans say 50+1 they are merely pointing out the arrangements under the GFA?

  • Zeno

    The people make the decisions in a real democracy. Remember it is supposed to be Government of the people by the people NOT government by a power hungry mob who have organised themselves and got elected exploiting the fears of the working classes.
    Politicians don’t have any special decision making skills or in some cases even any education. John O Dowd doesn’t have a single GCSE and is Minister for Education. Edwin Poots a Farmer and was Minister for Health. I could go on.

  • Gingray

    Now Zeno, stop being childish.

    Aristotle was a philospher of his time – when the mandate was limited to free men of a certain wealth. Even then tho parties existed (even if they didnt use the term parties, a modern creation).

    But it is stupid to say that just because I disagree with Aristotle I dont believe him – his views are right for his time. But the world has moved on.

  • Zeno

    In Ancient Greece any citizen could be chosen to lead. It was done by lot or sortition. Once chosen they made the decisions. The advantage of that system is No elections, No political parties. No politicians lying to get power and lying to stay in power and dividing the people for personal gain. There is no reason to divide society.
    If we need politicians to make decisions then appoint people with proven ability, and don’t just take those that won the popularity contest.

  • Gingray

    Zeno, that is an incredibly niave view of the Athenian political system – only around 1 in 10 people living there could actually stand for election, and they still required coalitions of like minded people to get things achieved. Fore runners to our modern day political parties, made up of career politicians.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/greekdemocracy_01.shtml

    This might be of some use – in particular note the three reasons given as to why greek style democracy is no longer applicable in a modern society.

    “it is crucial that we keep in mind the differences between our and the Greeks’ systems of democracy – three key differences in particular: of scale, of participation and of eligibility.”

  • Granni Trixie

    It also says something about the nature of the UUP and its leadership that Nesbitt went to the media before consulting and getting the approval of its Council due to meet this Saturday. What if they don’t sanction this decision? Or against their wiser judgement agree to save face? Are the decision making structures in the UUP fit for purpose in a modern world?

  • Herein lies the explosive problem, and it is not just local and national …….. Western Democracy Is An Endangered Species On Its Way To Extinction

    And this explain it all extremely well, too, and although maybe thought quite amusing, it is surely never to be realised funny …….. Democracy, but not as you are told it is

  • Zeno

    I’m not proposing that we go back and adopt the Greek system. The natural evolution of that system would have extended eligibility to all, not filtered it down to a political elite.
    How did we get to the point where people with no qualifications other than the ability to win a popularity contest with the financial support of a party become the leaders of the country?

  • convicted

  • Zeno

    “You are leaping about – one minute it’s politicians you don’t like, but when pushed on that it’s sinn fein supporters.”

    I don’t see any logic in that. It’s not an either or. I can dislike both and DUP and TUV supporters.

  • I know you are, but what am I?

  • Croiteir

    Has Bobby McConnell resigned?

  • Mike the First

    Wasn’t the Faulkner-Fitt Executive an executive without the UUP, after its first 3 days or so in office?

  • eireanne

    most readers would presume he was talking about the second version. Is Reader suffering from another bout of denial, which warps perception of the written word ?

  • Tochais Siorai

    Unionists don’t do long term strategy, do they? Sure, Nesbitt’s move is a smart one in the short term – he’s put the DUP on the back foot and has given his own party a USP if the DUP don’t follow suit. And it must be a nice feeling for UUP people that the DUP are floundering around when the shoe was on the other foot so often in the early years post GFA.
    .
    But of course if there is a collapse of Stormont then what? Return to Direct Rule with more joint authority and more exasperation in London. There is no emotional attachment there any more towards NI, even amongst Tories. They just don’t care about the place. It’s not worth the bother and they will continue to seek ways to loosen the ties (which cost them £200m a week – what do they get for that only hassle?). Stuff like collapsing the executive only speeds up the process. Are there any Unionists who realise this?

  • Tochais Siorai

    The ‘Republic of Ireland’ didn’t vote to remove itself from the UK. Ireland as a whole did.

  • Gingray

    Way off track Zeno – basically you are saying you like the Athenian system, which was essentially a popularity contest between male citizens with no qualifications.

    But bemoaning the fact that we have a system where people with no qualifications win a popularity contest.

    Not sure what your point is, and how it is relevant to this thread.

  • Gingray

    Ah so if you dont like the outcome rerun it?

    Only the TUV and your friends the BNP it turns out, oppose the various agreements we have in Northern Ireland – the parties are voted in by the electorate who have already endorsed it through a referendum.

  • Gingray

    Yup Zeno, you can, and you can claim to dislike all politicians and all political parties.

    But I place more faith in your actions than your words, and you only complain about the nationalist parties, and mock catholic voters for being stupid and needing to come to their senses.

    Even in this thread, about the UUP, you have failed to even address the issue, just jumped in and spouted poor mathematics and attacked SF. Pathetic

  • Zeno

    “Even in this thread, about the UUP, you have failed to even address the issue, just jumped in and spouted poor mathematics and attacked SF. Pathetic”

    Am I not allowed to correct a ridiculous claim that SF have the support of 25% of the population?
    The DUP and their supporters are morons. The Caliban wing led by Mervyn Story are completely deluded. Anyone who votes for them is no better than their counterpart SF. The cry of Never Never Never quickly changed to Well OK then when nice jobs suits and money was waved at them.
    How’s that?

  • Gingray

    Its a start – but the thread is about the UUP – why not talk about that? 25% of the voting age population that votes, does so for Sinn Fein.

    I know you like to think you know what the non voters think, but its just not the case.

  • Granni Trixie

    Could be his ministry is perceived as doing so badly that the Dup will want to take it over and be seen to do better (like cutting the public grass,improving road congestion etc etc).

  • Zeno

    “I know you like to think you know what the non voters think, but its just not the case.”

    I know they don’t think enough of SF or the DUP to actually go out and vote for them. That is how support is measured.

  • Zeno

    “Way off track Zeno – basically you are saying you like the Athenian system, which was essentially a popularity contest between male citizens with no qualifications.”

    I think you missed the most important point. Citizens were selected at random.

  • Gingray

    Please stop Zeno and have a wee read on the subject

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

    Some things had random selection, most did not, and when lots where used the candidates had been carefully vetted by the different groupings.

    Not seeing much difference here

  • Gingray

    Um, no, it is not. Support is measured based on the people who turn out to vote. Non voters can vote for a lot of reasons, you choose to pick the one you like most.

  • Croiteir

    Is the OUP still in existence? However the UU did run Bobby McConnell in elections

  • eireanne

    any chance of a link kalista? please

  • Croiteir

    Again I will ask about Bobby McConnell

  • eireanne

    direct rule as was is not an option given the GFA/Belfast agreement and involvement of Dublin and the USA. The only option if Stormont proves to be unworkable is joint authority 24/7 for 365 days a year between Dublin and London for as long as needed https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/interim-joint-sovereignty-the-only-option/

  • Reader

    Eh? He said the UUP formed the UVF. That means he is talking about the first UVF, not the second UVF.

  • Reader

    Negotiate with who? The IRA? Sinn Fein?
    Maybe if the Government had negotiated with the IRA instead of with Sinn Fein there would be a United Ireland now? But Sinn Fein dropped the ball. Their voters don’t seem to mind, though.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Long term strategies are for Lundies…

  • Zeno

    It is the same type of random selection used to select a Jury. We don’t want criminals or bankrupts in positions of power and neither did they. Slaves and Foreigners were logically excluded.

  • Mister_Joe

    13 men and one token woman. What do you expect?

  • Granni Trixie

    I did notice but one half hidden women in the publicity Pic but didn’t want (.again) to be the one to harp on about same old,same old. So thanks for that,Joe,appreciated.

  • barnshee

    Carefully avoid my points

  • Roger

    Barnshee – Do you believe Glasgow have the right to leave the UK, in view of its vote earlier this year?

  • Roger

    That’s why I just asked Barnshee if he thinks Glasgow has the right to now leave the UK in view of its vote…

  • Roger

    Catholic doesn’t mean anti UK and certainly doesn’t mean pro IRL

  • Roger

    Agreed. Was this outcome worth 3,500 lives?

  • Roger

    Agreed; it’s good news for all concerned. I hope the SDLP joins the UUP in opposition.

  • Roger

    That’s not that much….See what happened at the last election in Ireland…

  • Roger

    Agreed. But not necessarily a bad thing. Opposition is an important job, especially in NI.

  • Reader

    “Ireland as a whole” did nothing except participate in a Westminster election.

  • barnshee

    “Barnshee – Do you believe Glasgow have the right to leave the UK, in view of its vote earlier this year?”

    Certainly ( indeed the sooner the better some might say)

  • barnshee

    “The cry of Never Never Never quickly changed to Well OK then when nice jobs suits and money was waved at them. ”

    Excellent summary- but at least it may come back to bite them in arse if they stay “in” with SF

  • barnshee

    ” to continue as an “unarmed and withering husk” rather than risk a dissident group filling the void left by its disbandment”

    The old husk failed to wither -decomission was a con

    “Former minister McDowell” has become a laughing stock -if he was not one already

  • paul david

    It did when the island was partitioned and still holds true today maybe not as as much as religon is becoming more and more irrelevant.
    Shows how easy it is to carve a counrty up along sectarian lines. Only nutters would do something like that.

  • paul david

    Has British rule in Ireland been worth one life?

  • paul david

    Did you support the GFA and power sharing? The DUP called it a road map to to a United Ireland.

  • paul david

    The SDLP are going nowhere. Power sharing gurantees Sinn Fein will be in governement until the last day of its existence.

    If they are silly enough to follow Nesbitt Sinn Fein will take any minister posts theyve vacated and then take their voters at the following election.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Indeed it did and in the absence of a never offered referendum the 1918 election results were overwhelming, exaggerated somewhat by the FPP system but even so, if a referendum was offered (tell us when was Ireland ever asked whether we wanted to be a part of the UK?), it is highly unlikely that Ireland would have voted to stay in the UK.
    .

  • Croiteir

    No they won’t, the last thing the English want is to lose territory and the prestige, the definitely want to hold on to the place.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Get real. That’s long gone. They’d get out in the morning if they could.

  • Croiteir

    And you base that on what exactly?