Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein and their different approaches to ‘local difficulty’…

“The Cobh cumann had been stood down in February…” says Cork NOrth Central TD Jonathan O’Brien, therefore voiding their ability to resign en masse. The BBC couldn’t get a word with Kieran McCarthy, since he seems to have been too busy talking to everyone else.

As one wit put it on Twitter this morning…

Apparently not. [Rebel Alliance for the Rebel County? – Ed] As Miriam Lord acerbically notes:

Two councillors are at the centre of a major row – one of them, a political veteran, has been expelled and another has been suspended for a year.

This followed a decision taken by party HQ at the start of the year to “stand down” the local organisation. Not a squeak out of anyone about this rather drastic move.

Why did it happen? It’s a secret. [Emphasis added]

The contrast with Fianna Fail in Dublin Bay North the contrast could not be starker. The man tipped to take the party nomination, the former Boss’s son Cllr Sean Haughey.

He and Micheal Martin are thought to be close, both personally and politically. But after two of the four candidates for selection stood down, he was beaten by just two votes by a younger female candidate and fellow Dublin Councillor Deirdre Heney.

There is talk of getting Haughey on the ticket as a second candidate. But even in the new five seater constituency that’s a big ask for Fianna Fail even if you allow that current polling rates under estimate the party’s strength with voters.

This remember is the constituency Averil Power was hoping to win the nomination for. Ironically, it may have been getting caught on the wrong side of Power’s pro equal marriage stance that helped shuffle the party deck against Haughey.

So two parties, two ‘revolts’ and two very different outcomes. Okay, Sandra McLellan is a standing TD which complicates the matter hugely for Sinn Fein.

The new One Member One Vote system seems to be having some of the regenerative effect party reformers hoped for. It remains to be seen if that’s a beast the Fianna Fail leader can successfully ride. The influx will no doubt bring in new opponents and future rivals to power.

Martin has none of Gerry Adams certainty that Rebels are instantly dispatched to the [Something, Something, Something] Dark Side

But then as I have said before, making your position contestable is one Machiavelli’s soonest forgotten (and most powerful) advices to The Prince.

, ,

  • Chris Jones

    I blame it on Global Warming. There’s now a shortage of bogs to bury the (political) dead so they roam the earth telling dreadful stories about the Parties and leadership

  • james

    These days the shinners tend to unleash the internet banshee trolls to ‘bury’ the critics

  • Am Speaking at SF Summer School, Saturday, 27th, Ballyvourney, Co.Cork. Should be interesting…!

  • onionist

    Best keep quiet about the UUP HQ selecting their preferred candidate over the votes of the local party members.

  • steve white

    “The Cobh cumann had been stood down in February…” vageuley remember hearing something about that weeks ago, i might be wrong

  • james

    Then you have a golden opportunity to break the cycle whereby children are brought up to believe that the other side are always wrong, whichever side you are on is always right, and that we even have to be on two different sides in the first place. I trust you will not let the children down.

  • james

    Stood down? Strange quasi-militaristic way to put it.

  • Hmm… probably best if I provide a link to my previous post on the East Cork rebellion.

    Mick

    Martin has none of Gerry Adams certainty that Rebels are instantly dispatched to the [Something, Something, Something] Dark Side…

    Erm… Someone doesn’t know their Star Wars…[scroll down]

    Just saying…

    The Rebel Alliance stood bravely against the evil of the Galactic Empire, never backing down despite overwhelming odds. Formed from resistance movements that arose during the Clone Wars, the Rebellion worked in secret for decades to overthrow the Emperor and restore democracy to the galaxy. Eventually, armed with the firepower of ships like the X-wing and A-wing, and the leadership of figures including Princess Leia and Admiral Ackbar, the Rebel Alliance triumphed over the Empire at the Battle of Endor.

  • I shall do my level best sir.

  • Sir Rantsalot

    I expect leaving the the chuckies would remove you’re standing in the criminal classes and nothing else. Certainly decent people in the Republic don’t have anything to do with SF. Yes I have lived in the ROI and I do know the level of people that get into SF.

  • Robin Keogh

    Another difference between the FF and SF organisations lies in the personal ambitions of the individuals. FF have a monstrous level of self interested individalus who run to their buddies in the media at the first sign of trouble. Moreover there has been a long tradition within FF of scratching the backs of the Dublin media elite in return for favourable press coverage. Both of these issue are more likely to explain the difference you seek to understand. SF dont stoop to the level of FF when it comes to using the press to manipulate public opinion. As for the issue Itself, there appears to be accusations of bullying and mobilised negative bias involved so i reckon the issue is far from resolved. I hope they sort it out one way or another.

  • james

    Are you telling me that SF aren’t the decent, salt of the earth lusty lads and part time poets that Robin’s been leading us all to believe??

  • chrisjones2

    It was Fermanagh and the wrong set of ballot papers were counted.and were only found stuffed down the back of the sofa at a very late stage

    And look at South Antrim where they have selected a candidate tha the Conservatives rejected after allegedly homophobic comments

    UUP – the party of Progressive Unionism ……. or is that the PUP?

  • chrisjones2

    “Another difference between the FF and SF organisations lies in the personal ambitions of the individuals. FF have a monstrous level of self interested individalus ”

    Are you naiive or just winding us up? SF is a cult run on the basis of family clans

    “SF dont stoop to the level of FF when it comes to using the press to manipulate public opinion.”

    Now that is just openly taking the piss. You will tell us next that Gerry was never in the IRA

    ” there appears to be accusations of bullying and mobilised negative bias”

    That’s a new slant on it. Is the party now “doing a Cahill” on this issue too

  • chrisjones2

    In de Nurth Seamus and the boys can always lend a hand when needed to help with local reducation

  • chrisjones2

    No. Some of them are females and focused on the real issues like looking nice and getting their hair done

  • WindowLean

    I am reminded of the “Decent People Vote Ulster Unionist” strapline

  • Jag

    At this stage, given the information deficit, one of the most noteworthy aspects of this drama is the 12-month suspension of Councillor Melissa Mullane. 12 months? That’s just nasty.

    Peadar Toibin was suspended for six months for his rebellion on abortion reform.

    A 6-month suspension would have enabled Councillor Mullane to participate in the next general election which has to be held before April 2016, but a 12-month suspension eliminates her, and gainsays the SF management position that this drama was not about candidate selection for the next general election.

    Also noteworthy that Deputy Sandra McLellan’s press output has trebled in the last fortnight. This drama appears to have given her a toe up the behind, she’s not the worst SF performer, not the best either, and she could benefit from a giddy-up.

  • Robin Keogh

    It must be very comforting for you to be able to disparage tens of thousands of people you never even met in order to suit a very narrow prejudicial mindset?

  • Robin Keogh

    Well James if you ever have a few hours free, come down to South Wicklow and I will introduce you to my fellow Shinners, then make up your own mind.

  • Croiteir

    Decent people vote Ulster Unionist

  • Croiteir

    Sorry – beat me to the draw

  • james

    Perhaps. I hope they’re a different breed from the obnoxious, and frequently crude, sorts you tend to attract up in Fermanagh.

  • Robin Keogh

    James, such generalisations dont show you in great light tbh

  • Chris Jones

    Sadly these days they are just as bad as Sinn Fein

  • Chris Jones

    …well they do vote for a party that supported the murder of thousands of Irish Citizens…. its a bit hard to get past that.

  • james

    Well both Gildernew and Philip Flanagan are capable of the most ignorant bouts of ignorant sectarianism. I will point you to Flanagan’s obscene lewd comments over the royal baby for one thing. And many of the decent folk of FST were appalled by Gildernew’s obsequious gurning over Geraldo’s ‘break the bastards’ hate-mongering. Specific enough?

  • babyface finlayson

    Robin

    “FF have a monstrous level of self interested individalus”.

    Such disparaging generalizations do not show you in a good light I’m afraid.

  • Robin Keogh

    Yes james, informed specifics have more credibility than ignorant generalisations

  • Robin Keogh

    Ah but i didnt generalise i simply pointed out the high levels. I didnt accuse them all. Maybe don some reading glasses the next time.

  • james

    Well, now you have two specific examples of why I (and indeed many) find our local SF’ers distasteful. Are their equivalents quite different where you are then?

  • steve white

    she appointed to new youth affairs pokesperson position at the beginnig of the year

  • steve white

    is it true?

  • babyface finlayson

    Robin
    Generalization:
    ‘forming or expressing a general concept or proposition on the basis of inference from particular instances.’

    So unless you have some statistical evidence for the high level of self interested individuals (monstrously high) within FF, I would say you must be inferring from particular instances and are therefore generalizing. Aha!

  • chrisjones2

    man playing again?

    Looking desperate. The ‘my party right or wrong’ line shows through.

    By the way I see two more bodies were dug up today – any hint of remorse on your part

  • Robin Keogh

    None of the above I am just repeating the statements made by former FF members such as Averil Power etc.

  • Robin Keogh

    Does that mean that the Unionists politicians who share power with SF are equally morally bankrupt? and by extension does it mean that people who vote for politicians who willingly share power with the SF sort are equally morally bankrupt?

  • Robin Keogh

    How was I man playing? I am aware that two more bodies were discovered and I hope it goes some distance to bringing a sense of closure to the families, all I can do is pray for them. I couldn’t and wouldn’t ever try to justify the actions of those responsible, all i can do is pray for them too … it’s another sickening element of the conflict that I will never be able to get my head around.

  • Robin Keogh

    Very

  • John Collins

    Have you ever listened to some of Paisley’s outbursts over the years including the remarks he made about Brian Cowen, Indeed Sammy Wilson is no shining light either as shown when he hadn’t the dignity to withdraw his ‘thug’ remark about Jim Allister

  • james

    Ah but what about….. I take it you have no defence then.

  • Sir Rantsalot

    Not at all. Everyone knows the sort of people who get involved in SF. It’s the same in ROI as in NI.

  • james

    Well that’s good then. One assumes from what you’re saying that the conduct of reps like the two I mentioned embarasses the party? How come the aren’t reined in?

  • james

    Shinners, famously, don’t lie. So I guess so?

  • Chris Jones

    You are seeking to evade by posting a totally different question

  • Chris Jones

    Thats a fair enough answer foir me. Thank you

  • james

    Ah those generalizations..