No #Twaddell from Parades Commission

The Parades Commission has given its response to the ‘Twaddell Initiative‘ put forward by Unionists and the Orders.

Not only does it say No, but it publicly deconstructs how it was first made aware of proposal by the media and dismissed the grounds for a late application, the failure to abide by its ruling for the 12th July parade and continued breaches of its determinations. It was abundantly plain that that would be the case (although there is still Nigel Dodds covert plea that the march gets forced up the road by the Secretary of State and Chief Constable).

The full ruling is here.

I’ll update with responses as they come out.

A few updates here:

The County Grand Orange Lodge of Belfast has expressed dismay:

“It is shameful that the Parades Commission – who created the situation at Woodvale – choose to consistently deny civil and religious liberty for all in north Belfast, and blatantly ignore a commitment by the Institution to full and open dialogue with Ardoyne residents following the completion of this long-held and traditional parade… However despite this setback, the Orange family and our Unionist partners involved in the Civil Rights Camp remain determined to peacefully and resolutely maintain the ongoing presence at Twaddell Avenue.”

Nigel Dodds:

“The Twaddell Initiative is a real attempt to move things forward… CARA and Sinn Fein are rejecting the most substantive offer of dialogue ever made in this situation… The Parades Commission refuse to reflect on the failure of their 2013 decision and insist that they got it right and others got it wrong.”

Jim Allister is also looking in on the action:

It seems to me that the Parades Commission has become so perverse and vindictive that it doesn’t matter what the Loyal Orders propose, they will turn it down, because, sadly, they are now in the business of stoking confrontation, not finding solutions. They are part of the cultural war on unionism.

 

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  • Morpheus

    I called it whataboutery because that is exactly what it is. I showed that there is a grossly unrepresentative number of MLAs who are in the Loyal Orders and rather than address the issue you started with ‘yeah, but what about the IRA blah blah blah.”

    It’s a classic example of whataboutery.

  • Blue Hammer

    It’s about no orange feet near “Ardoyne”. Getting your own back for the fabled 50 years of unionist misrule.

    And in the interests of your “shared future” bollocks, sure why not commemorate mass murdering child killer Thomas Begley on the 20th anniversary of his vile atrocity, and why not do so within a mile of the site of his act of infamy? That act which was definitely more anti-Protestant than it was pro-UI.

    You know nothing of the OO and nothing of its raison d’être.

  • Blue Hammer

    There’s a disproportionate number of Etonians in Westminster. So what? It’s not illegal. Or do you want to ban Eton now too?

  • Morpheus

    Here’s another example of whataboutery (but at least this one shows the hypocrisy of what you are saying)

    The UVF’s annual Brian Robinson Parade:
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/belfast-parade-honours-loyalist-killer-brian-robinson-29564107.html

    Coleraine? The exact mirror image of the Castlederg parade which again showed the nauseating hypocrisy. I could go on…

    As for the ‘fabled years of unionist misrule’ comment, quite frankly is bizarre and not worthy of a response.

    “You know nothing of the OO and nothing of its raison d’être.”

    Again, a childish remark. I could be IN the OO for all you know about me.

  • Blue Hammer

    Interesting that your whataboutery is good, yet mine is bad. Read much Orwell do you?

    I have been quite clear in my unambiguous condemnation of the Robinson marches. He chose to kill an innocent man and got his just reward courtesy of our brave armed forces. He should be held in contempt, not memorialised as any kind of hero.

    Coleraine likewise. Unambiguously condemned.

    If it’s not simply about a single drumbeat at 9:00am on a Saturday morning, what, pray tell, is it about if not keeping Orange feet off a main road?

    I seriously doubt you have any links to the OO, as your disparaging remarks show no grasp of the Loyal Orders or what they stand for.

  • Morpheus

    I called my whataboutery first – think pool when you call the pocket before hitting the shot.

    You condemn the Robinson marches, goof for you. You condemn the Coleraine marches, good for you. I condemn Castlederg and whatever shire you talked about before. Good for me. You feel any better?

    I could be Reverend Gibson himself for all you know about my knowledge of the OO. Hell, I could’ve ridden the goat myself.

    Ardoyne is not about keeping Orange feet off the streets – its about respect for fellow human beings and their human right to live in peace away from the sectarian bollix brought to their doorstep by an out-of-date and out-of-touch OO.

    Instead of Reverend Special Branch leading the Haass talks it should be the guy who talked to local residents in Derry and pulled off the biggest 12th celebration in NI in a city which has a 75% Catholic majority. Wouldn’t you agree?

  • David Crookes

    “Readers of Slugger who are new to the subject should watch the link

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FJ-u68p9p0

    with which one contributor to this thread has kindly supplied us, then paste

    The Orange Order – Christian Restoration

    into Google (try to read it all), and finally track down the council members (look carefully at their photographs) of the

    Evangelical Protestant Society.”

    This helpful suggestion for research is brought to you by an evangelical and a Protestant who is completely fed up with heathenism.

    Any reader who finds that he has been worked into a murderous rage by the foregoing suggestion should ask himself if he has a slight problem.

    Does anyone remember a children’s TV series called “Children of the Stones”? Good idea to watch one episode every night on YouTube when you’re taking your Ovaltine. It helped me to realize what we’re up against. My jolly atheist friends see the problem in terms of silliness, insecurity, and misapprehension. I reckon it’s a lot darker than that.

    Make sure your wife’s sitting right beside you on the settee when you’re watching “Children of the Stones”. Don’t even think of watching it if you’re alone in the house. I’ve warned youse.

  • paulG

    David,

    “I wonder how loyal to the Queen some of NI’s unionists really are. Mr Allister thought fit to criticize one of the things that the Queen did in the course of her Irish tour, and when the Palace as near as get-out sent a message to the flags rioters telling them to wise up, it was ignored.”

    I confess I missed that message from the Palace. But it is a major criticism of the Queen and other Royals over the last 45 years, that they have been so silent, when the Unionists committed treason against Parliament but claimed to be loyal to the crown, when Loyalists murdered for the crown and when the Orangemen defied the state, they again invoked the Queen and their loyalty to her.

    But she said nothing. Imagine what might have happened had she said ‘not in my name will you break Sunningdale, or murder, or march illegally’.

    How would the Unionist politicians and loyalist gunmen have sold their sectarianism when there was nobody left to be loyal to, but their bigotry?

  • David Crookes

    The question is, Paul, when and how often to speak, because the British sovereign reigns rather than rules, and relies to a large extent on the advice of ministers. I’ve no checkable chapter and verse for saying that messages WERE sent from from the Palace to certain big players on the unionist side during the period of the Troubles, so I really shouldn’t say it. But leave all that.

    Suppose that the Queen explicitly condemned the Twaddell twaddle tonight, and asked the organizers to stop. Do you think they’d pay any attention to her? No! They’d move the whole thing up another gear. Loyalists against the Queen. The Queen is a Lundy. (That old Sex Pistols song in which the Queen is called an idiot might even make a comeback in loyalist areas.)

    Before long we might hear some sash-draped Rev Dr explaining, with an alligator’s let-me-help-you smile, that NI’s Protestants are loyal to the principle of the British monarchy, rather than to the person who happens to be monarch at any particular time.

    Loyalism is loyal only to itself. The dwarfs are for the dwarfs. They don’t want peace. They want a continual state of hostility. It gives them a bit of excitement, and it helps them to believe that their lives are worth while.

    Don’t start me. If there was a real war tomorrow they’d run off like Walter and the Softies, with cries of ‘Mumsie!’. Men like my father and grandfather, who volunteered to serve for the duration of the World Wars, had no time for able-bodied men of military age who showed their loyalty merely by marching with toy swords.

  • My thanks to David Crookes for inviting all here to watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FJ-u68p9p0
    it should be remembered that this was a few weeks after the attack on the bookmakers.
    It speaks volumes and shows exactly why these OO marches are detested, in nationalist areas.

  • David Crookes

    Thanks, markeets. Any professing Christians who are offended by that 5.07 pm post should ask themselves the question of II Corinthians 6. 15: what concord hath Christ with Belial?

    If you can excuse the conduct of those marchers, you can excuse Hitler.

  • David Crookes

    The syncretistic polytheists of Northern Ireland are clearly identified in II Kings 17. 33.

    “They feared the Lord, and served their own gods…..”

    Pity more of them don’t read the Bible.

  • ThomasPaine

    “fabled 50 years of unionist misrule”

    Ah right. So it was all made up then? There was no discrimination against Catholics in housing and jobs? No gerrymandering ever took place?

    Catch yourself on and stop allowing your blatant bias preventing you reading a book or two.

    I see hypocrisy mentioned a lot on here……

    The twaddell problem is very simple to explain and the solution is even easier.

    For years loyalists could do what they wanted. They could walk were they wanted, shout what they wanted, throw what they wanted, insult and intimate who they wanted. But this behaviour has been deemed inappropriate by the Parades Commission and stopped marching in areas were it is most likely to occur. Shock horror.

    Now wee Billy can’t do what his Da did, or what his granda did, or what his great granda did etc etc. Now that we have moved towards implementing a full meritocracy instead of keeping the Protestant Ascendancy (although this is just a fable according to Blue Hammer) intact, wee Billy and his mates are raging. No triumphalism past houses occupied by CNR’s. No rubbing it in like the glory years of the past. Not content that the constitutional question has been settled and Northern Ireland will remain in the UK, wee Billy wants a full return to “Ulster” from the 20’s to the 70’s that his Granda has told him great stories about.

    The Orange Order and loyalists are all for a shared space when it comes to marching down whatever road they want to, but suggest the Union flag only flying 18 days a year over BCH, like a number of other halls, and out come the UVF. Hypocrisy.

    The solution?

    If the OO can control the hangers on, like wee Billy and his mates who I’ve described above (although obviously not all those who march are like this, but one is enough), and get them to behave like respectable adult human beings, and do this on a number of occasions, then allow them to march were they want.

    Clearly though this is nigh on an impossibility given what they the marches are about combined with the amount of alcohol which is consumed at such events. (Oh, the culture)

  • David Crookes

    Sources close to the Imperial Grand Wizard are hinting that the OO is about to request that 12 July be made an alcohol-free day, with all pubs closed.

    Joke. The unionist parties can’t control the OO, and the OO can’t control its own members.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    PaulG and David Crookes

    I can’t mind what the Queen said back in ’98 but himself showed his ‘loyalty’ by labeling Her Majesty as a ‘parrot’.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/northern_ireland/latest_news/100761.stm

  • David Crookes

    “Look at them,” said the proud mother at the passing-out parade. “Two thousand soldiers marching, and every one of them out of step except our wee Jimmy.”

    That’s loyalism. When the head of state ceases to do exclusively what WE want, she moves from being a bird of paradise to being a parrot.

    One of the stock characters in Tibetan drama is a big fat ugly selfish gimme-my-way baby called the Wa-Wa. Thought I’d share that with youse.

    (I saw a couple of characters in the Beijing Opera one night who could have been Grand Panjandrums back home, but that’s another tale.)

    By the way, AG, you deserve a Pulitzer Prize for singlehandedly restoring the honorific pronoun ‘himself’ to its place in literate Irish writing.

    If you’re perusing these words in real time, dear readers, you are seriously sad. Time for bed.

  • David Crookes

    Blow me down, here they are! Copy and paste. Huarong is Mandarin for Garvaghy.

    Beijing Opera ‘The Huarong Path’ 《華容道》part4

  • What benefit does the Parades Commission have in being confrontational and attacking unionism, culturally or otherwise?

    If Jim could answer that I’d love to hear it.

    They’re impartial and seek to be arbiters between two communities in disagreement. If someone is breaching the law they’ll be penalised.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Daddy,

    What benefit does the Parades Commission have in being confrontational and attacking unionism, culturally or otherwise?

    Unionism requires a bogeyman in order to continue avoiding introspection, and the Parades Commission is it.

    Blue Hammer :

    You know nothing of the OO and nothing of its raison d’être.

    Here’s what I know about the parade on Ardoyne :

    http://youtu.be/0SMeIuGXmfE?t=8m58s

    That’s a crowd of slack-jawed sectarian wankers dressed in tracksuits and tacky football tops yelling abuse at a protest which otherwise appears to be silent. These people make up the majority of those actually participating in the parade.

    Go ahead, explain the OO’s raison d’etre in the context of the footage in that clip.