Even Protestants don’t support parades and protests: #LucidTalk

More figures from LucidTalk in the Belfast Telegraph, this time on Parades.

Respondents were asked which statements they agreed most closely with (results given as percentages):

LTalk parades

If you exclude don’t knows, you get the following results (results given as percentages):

LTalk parades excluding dont knows

And, if pie-charts are your thing, here’s charts for the first three groups excluding don’t knows:

LTalk All

… and Protestants (excluding don’t knows)…

 

LTalk Protestants

… and Catholics (excluding don’t knows)…

LTalk Catholics

As to the poll itself, the stats provided state that:

Our LucidTalk poll of 1,222 people across Northern Ireland suggests that, while none of them will be easy, parading may be the area where consensus is closest. Those polled were questioned in the period running from August 26 until September 9.

I’m, at best, agnostic about polling responses in the north since past experience suggests a wariness in divulging political opinions to strangers. That said, I don’t see much of a margin of error for those at the Twaddell ‘Peace Camp’, the Orders and their supporters to find comfort in. The survey is reporting that 52% of Protestants said either the Parades Commission should be obeyed or that parades should only take place where there is local agreement (that figure rises to 90.5% for Catholics, or 75% for All, excluding don’t knows). While it is only an opinion poll (with all the local health warnings that requires) and the poll itself didn’t ask if people agreed that parades should be banned outright, it would seem that bang goes any claimed mandate for parading.

In some respects, it also suggests that one pretext for the Haass talks is based on a misplaced belief that there is popular support for parading (even among Protestants). Which there isn’t.

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  • John O’Neill. This will also punture those DUP mlas claims that there support in unionist community for flag riots and exposes their real motives as fear of loss of support for the DUP due to their cynical exploitation of the flags vote in council. Frazer and Bryson without a leg to stand on.

  • between the bridges

    It could have been worthy of discussion but JoN could help but add the spin…’misplaced belief that there is popular support for parading (even among Protestants). Which there isn’t.’ would 500k at the 12th qualify as popular? 100k at scrava? 20k at the 1st friday in june? etc, the reality is all the survey shows is that most people are fed up with contentious parades (shock)…

  • Son of Strongbow

    The figures further expose to ridicule the many nationalist commentators who wildly extrapolated from the very small numbers involved in flag protests to encompass the whole unionist community as protest supporters.

    How amusing it is now to again look back on the feeding frenzy that erupted last winter after the BCC vote when the hyperbole flew thick and fast.

    The bottom line is that the majority of unionists don’t support law breaking and the sectarian slurs, on this site and elsewhere, that they did, and further suggested that these loyalist ‘micro groups’ were advancing a mainstream unionist violent agenda, are displayed for exactly what they were.

  • Long past the point where there is any point to be extrapolated with any certainty from a Telegraph poll.

  • Mick Fealty

    TD,

    Not the done thing to quote yourself approvingly, but as I have noted elsewhere (http://goo.gl/ACgLA5):

    Obsession with the past and a narrow set of fundamentalist values – which do not reflect the increasingly diversifying values of the broad swathe of society under conditions of peace – is a problem which affects the elites of both the DUP and Sinn Fein.

    Poll on the broad popularity of the ‘peace and reconciliation’ centre at the Maze/Long Kesh site (or officially, ahem, MLK for short: http://goo.gl/5mZfV5) anyone?

  • JR

    BTB,

    ‘would 500k at the 12th qualify as popular? 100k at scrava? 20k at the 1st friday in june?

    Oh come on. There you are again with your exaggerated figures. 100 k at Scarva, let me guess, OO’s own figures? For someone who comes across as intelligent how do you swallow those figures. Google images of Slane concert, that is 80K people, checked, verified and ticketed. Compare that to images of Scarva on the 13th. you kill any credibility you have with that nonsense.

    I was at a christening over the weekend, we had 5000 in attendance. Luckey we had enough teabags.

  • ayeYerMa

    Sonofstrongbow: “The figures further expose to ridicule the many nationalist commentators who wildly extrapolated from the very small numbers involved in flag protests to encompass the whole unionist community as protest supporters.”

    That isn’t true. This doesn’t mention protest. The Ipsos MORI poll specific to the situation created by SF/SDLP/Alliance at Belfast City Hall showed 51% overall support for protest.

    On parades it merely asks “should you obey the law” (which, of course, most are going to answer yes) not whether the Parades Commission is fit for purpose or makes sensible decisions.

  • Mick Fealty

    JR,

    Those figures often originate with the police. Small town music festivals in England can generate 30k without too much bother. I don’t think it is as implausible as it might look.

  • Morpheus

    AYM: In the same poll 77% said the protests should stop.

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    I am very impressed with the great turn out you can have for marching.

    With such large numbers attending why are the policing costs not covered by the event organizers? A question not asked by the Belfast Telegraph.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Mick

    “I don’t think it is as implausible as it might look.”

    Damning with faint possibility?

  • Morpheus

    There is no doubt that there are huge numbers who come out for the 12th but no one I know goes out for the OO – they go for the music and the spectacle which the bands bring to the party. The same bands that are disavowed when it hits the fan

  • Clanky

    Apart from the fact that, given the massive socio-economic differences within both unionist and nationalist communities and massive differences in attitudes geographically, the sample size is rather small I think the idea that most unionists don’t support either OO marching through predominantly nationalist areas or the OO (and others) ignoring the rule of law is probably fairly accurate.

    The problem is that they do not speak out. I am guessing that this is for fear of being branded unpatriotic, but truthfully I don’t know, hopefully the likes of NI21 might get the silent majority involved in politics again.

  • MF[7.36] Will Robinson now go down in history as the MLK Snatcher? He’s now very much in the crosshairs of those in the DUP licking their lips at the prospect of his going, in some cases, very cross hairs. He’s a greatly figure after the fit of head staggers in the Florida sun.

  • ‘greatly reduced political figure’

  • JR

    Mick,
    get away with your “often originate” nonsense. 30,000 is a big crowd, Many of these Orange events do attract big crowds but they need to get over their delusions of grandeur. Every year we are given attendance figures by the OO, crowds comparable to numbers last seen when the pope visited to the phoenix park but with no basis in reality.

    Look at an image of slane, 80,000 people, a sea of people stretching over acres. Now look at images taken at Scarva, a big crowd but not 20% more than at slane.

    I’v gone through the Belfst 12th figures before on this site. The crowd would have needed to be 5 deep both sides of the road stretching 25 km to get 250K. Silmply not the case. Even the OO’s own figures add 250K in Belfast to 40K in three other locations to come up with 500K.

    Do you realize that 500K is every single Protestant in the north between the age of 5 and 65, every last one! no one sick, no- one doesn’t like the bands, no one on holidays. Do you realize how silly you sound?

    Come on Mick I thought you were more intelligent than that.

    http://www.ninis2.nisra.gov.uk/public/Theme.aspx

  • Comrade Stalin

    I have to say, and I really hesitate to defend these guys but .. this poll is slightly, just slightly skewed against the loyal orders/marching organizations in its approach.

    Most people are going to answer that parades should be lawful, that the legally constituted authorities should regulate them, and that there should be consultation with local residents.

    If a poll had asked the question “do you support the right to hold parades in public generally provided that they are lawful and peaceful” I’m sure we’d have had a similar overwhelming response in favour. Who would be against what is lawful and peaceful ?

    I guess this is where unionism is at the moment. Having established for itself a position which is based on an ambiguous perspective on the rule of law, they are now open to having their credentials on the rule of law challenged which is what this poll is doing. Well done to Peter Robinson and the Unionist Forum for delivering yet another fine victory.

    McSlaggart,

    We already covered the policing costs thing before. This is not the USA. We don’t charge people for policing services in either the UK or Ireland.

    You need to be very careful about attaching a price tag to everything, especially things which are held by some to be “cultural”. Do we want people starting to eyeball the costs of the Irish language translations which are done up in Stormont ? Do we want Pride, the North West, the Marathon and so on to be charged a fee for their policing costs ?

  • Mc Slaggart

    Comrade Stalin

    ” We don’t charge people for policing services in either the UK or Ireland.”

    Yes people are charged for policing. Why would they not?

    Football clubs pay ( £8m is recouped from clubs(in England))1 and their bill I think has got a lot larger.

    In Scotland “The results of the telephone survey2 showed that over three quarters of people thought that organisers of political protests, Orange walks and Republican parades should be required to pay police costs and local authority costs. ”

    1
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-target-a-slice-of-footballs-millions-as-budget-cuts-loom-2094521.html
    2
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/01/20583/50713

  • Mc Slaggart

    Comrade Stalin

    “You need to be very careful about attaching a price tag to everything, especially things which are held by some to be “cultural”. ”

    Everything has a cost.

  • Mick Fealty

    I reported on one such folk festival for Irish Post a few years before Slugger. It was one or maybe two deep in parts and empty in others for their parade.

    Figure I got from the local cops was 30k. Has to have been ball park, as you say there’s no ticketing. Just saying like.

  • tomthumbuk

    It’s reflective of the attitude of the Parades Commission when they banned the Ardoyne parade this year.
    It wasn’t done because of any problems with the behaviour of the parade last year, but was done out of an exasperation to try to placate or prevent Nationalist rioters.
    People voting in a poll, similarly are doing so because they are fed up with an annual summer mayhem fest.
    The question asked will get the answer that reflects that.
    If you ask should protests be lawful and peaceful we know

  • tomthumbuk

    It’s reflective of the attitude of the Parades Commission when they banned the Ardoyne parade this year.
    It wasn’t done because of any problems with the behaviour of the parade last year, but was done out of an exasperation to try to placate or prevent Nationalist rioters.
    People voting in a poll, similarly are doing so because they are fed up with an annual summer mayhem fest.
    The question asked will get the answer that reflects that.
    If you ask “should protests be lawful and peaceful” we know what the answer will be.
    We are looking for a solution to an agenda that is being set by people bent upon destabilising society.

  • John Ó Néill

    I did a trawl of reports on the Twelfth and Scarva, the only figures quoted for actual attendance by the media are ‘tens of thousands’ for both. They quote Orders as saying up to 250,000 expected in Belfast and 100,000 at Scarva but no-one retrospectively confirms those numbers as having attended (indeed they only say tens of thousands implying much lower figures). Scarva’s parade route is a mile long, so that part simply can’t accommodate 100,000, nor do the traffic reports on the day suggest it is anything like that for the whole event.

    Like the LucidTalk poll suggests, maybe there is a bit of a culture of overestimation when it comes to evaluating the popuarity of parading.

  • DoppiaVu

    John O

    Just what is your problem with the don’t-knows? Given that they make up a quarter of the sample, they deserve some analysis. If we assume that they are made up of:

    – people who genuinely don’t know what the solution is;
    – people who genuinely don’t care what the solution is; and
    – people who don’t actually know what you’re talking about (i.e. you’ve got a couple of foreign tourists in your sample).

    Then I would have thought that for all three of these groups, it is implicit that they don’t hold a strong view on the issue. So that’s a quarter of those polled that don’t have a strong view on the issue.

    What relevance has this? Only that those that hold overtly strong views on either side of the argument are demonstrated to be even more on the margin – whereas your analysis downplays that fact (ok well maybe its just an assertion).

  • Pete Rock

    I did a trawl of reports on the Twelfth and Scarva, the only figures quoted for actual attendance by the media are ‘tens of thousands’ for both. They quote Orders as saying up to 250,000 expected in Belfast and 100,000 at Scarva but no-one retrospectively confirms those numbers as having attended (indeed they only say tens of thousands implying much lower figures). Scarva’s parade route is a mile long, so that part simply can’t accommodate 100,000, nor do the traffic reports on the day suggest it is anything like that for the whole event.

    Like the LucidTalk poll suggests, maybe there is a bit of a culture of overestimation when it comes to evaluating the popuarity of parading.

    John

    When approximating popularity for parading are you using the rationale of only those in actual physical attendance are in support? If so that would be flawed.

    Also the Twelfth Parade in Belfast would be extremely hard to estimate in numbers in attendance. Some only watch the parade in the morning, some only come down to watch the parade on the way home.

    People who may be in support of “parading” may not be in attendance at all for various reasons, many people would have parties in their own homes, like this year I myself had a barbecue with some friends or many just head round to local pubs were there is usually some festivities planned.

  • John Ó Néill

    I think you need to read the earlier comments that that is responding to, Pete. Its to do with claims of numbers in attendance and an apparent lack of verifiable figures (from either side).

  • between the bridges

    My figures come from the tourism ministers statement
    ” Every year some 500,000 people either attend or watch the Twelfth parades while the recent Sham Fight at Scarva attracting around 100,000 people making it the single largest one-day tourism event in Northern Ireland.” available on the http://www.northernireland.gov.uk interweb… but of course i bow to the superior knowledge of those regular parade attenders on here…

  • between the bridges

    JoN any update on your definition of ‘popular’…

  • Mc Slaggart

    Pete Rock

    Are you sure Scarva is a mile long?

    My attempt at doing the maths:

    If everyone only took 2 feet of space you could fit approximately 2,640 people in a single line a mile long. say 3000 people

    say 10 rows deep that would make 30 000 people at Scarva.

    I would be interested how you would get to 100 000?

  • between the bridges

    Tut tut McS..discover Ireland has no problem with 100k for Scarva..http://www.discoverireland.com/gb/ireland-things-to-see-and-do/whats-on/listings/?fid=NITB_26676

  • Mick Fealty

    Moving away from the point of the thread guys…

  • between the bridges

    Upon further research it looks like i owe everyone an apology my figures are way out…

    ”Every 13th of July as many as 250,000 people congregate on the tiny village to commemorate King William’s stay there and his victory.” http://www.my-secret-northern-ireland.com/sham-fight.html

  • between the bridges

    Mick the thread states ”a misplaced belief that there is popular support for parading (even among Protestants). Which there isn’t.” if JoN clarifies what constitutes ‘popular’ we can compare figures…

  • JR

    Mick, BTB is right, the point is orange event’s don’t enjoy as much support as they claim. That is exactly the point of the thread.

  • John Ó Néill

    Between the bridges – are you suggesting that someone writing the figures on the internet simply makes them true? As I have already pointed out, the actual reporting on the actual numbers attending the events differs significantly from claims made online and in literature which has the information supplied by the organisers. When the two are tested by that weird concept of using facts (such as thrown out by Mc Saggart up above), it is hard to see how, logistically, you could fit 100,000, never mind 250,000 in to view the procession or the sham fight. Nor does contemporary traffic reporting, or photographs of crowds at the event seem to support the types of numbers the organisers make claim to.

    In that regard, Mick is being unfair to you here, as this is entirely about perception and reality with regard to where the centre of gravity is in local politics. Judged on the figures above, and while there is still a hard core of support there for parades, it seems it is not a majority concern anymore even within the *Protestant* side of the community (going by the LucidTalk figures). But there seems to be a perception of sorts amongst the likes of the DUP, UUP, TUV, UKIP etc that there is still votes in it. In that regard, though, the political business case for expending so much hard-to-retrieve political capital on parading is simply not borne out by the figures.

    Somewhere Basil McCrea is happily puffing away on a Cuban cigar.

  • shipbuilder

    Comrade Stalin,

    You said –

    “We already covered the policing costs thing before. This is not the USA. We don’t charge people for policing services in either the UK or Ireland.”

    Not in my experience. See my post here –

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/03/our-wee-culture-any-chance-we-could-stop-losing-money-from-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1406062

  • shipbuilder

    In addition to my last post – all ‘cultural’ events pay for some form of security.
    Most pay for private security while receiving public funding, some also pay for Police time.
    Others pay for neither, clearly assuming that the rest of us will pick up the bill.

  • between the bridges

    JoN it makes them as true as someone writing on the internet ”based on a misplaced belief that there is popular support for parading (even among Protestants). Which there isn’t.”, for the third time how do you quantify ‘popular’…

  • between the bridges

    JR the point of the thread was to take a survey and add some spin, i merely question the spin (unanswered), the reality is parades like many other events have varying degrees of attendees. I take part in parades with 10-12 bands and 200-300 spectators and those with 90-100+ bands and 20-80k spectators to claim that parades are not ‘popular’ is simply nonsensical.

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    Most band parades on youtube show bands playing to empty streets?

  • Comrade Stalin

    McSlaggart, charging for policing division league football elsewhere in the UK (where clubs are run for a profit) is not the same as raising the prospect of charging for non-profit events here.

    We’re not in Scotland and I don’t think the answer to solving our unique political/cultural issue is going to be found by selectively quoting from the experience elsewhere.

  • John Ó Néill

    Between the bridges – you are the one quoting magical figures for attendance at parades – are you now scaling those back to 20-80k?

    Popular clearly refers to it as not representing a majority opinion (as per the #LucidTalk poll, which, as I was at pains to point out is only an opinion poll – an election would actually test political strategies here, not an opinion poll). In case you haven’t noticed, Camp Twaddell, the Flags protests etc didn’t exactly bring out mass support.

  • between the bridges

    JoN, if you read the comment you will see i am referring to parades i attend, i don’t attend ALL of the parades on the 12th (547 and 18 main) and i don’t attend scrava (although i will be parading it next year and i will bring my abacus). Now i have replied to your various queries can you please return the favor by defining what you deem to be ‘popular’, as per your last line in the OP…

  • Mc Slaggart

    Comrade Stalin

    “as raising the prospect of charging for non-profit events here.”

    The police do chare the football clubs even when they hold events for Carity?

  • Mc Slaggart

    chare = charge

    BTW

    The also charged for the Soap Box Derby in Belfast.

  • Comrade Stalin

    McSlaggart,

    The police do chare the football clubs even when they hold events for Carity?

    Is this a question or a statement ? It reads like a statement but there’s a question mark on the end.

    Yes, I’m sure the police do charge when these major clubs hold an event for charity. The events are still ticketed, so there are still overheads associated with managing them etc.

    I’d like to see some sort of substantiation for the idea that the police charge for such events in Belfast. I’ve never heard of it.

    Even then it’s not as simple as that. A well organized grouping and turn a peaceful parade with little or no policing overhead into a major riot situation by creating new flashpoints and orchestrating trouble at a parade where there hasn’t been trouble before. The loyalists did this in Belfast city centre at the beginning of August. How can you respond to something like that by attaching a price tag to what could hypothetically be a perfectly innocent and otherwise reasonable group of marchers ?

    Either way, this whole line of enquiry is a dead in the water. This is just a poorly-disguised way of banning parades. You should have the honesty to say so.

  • shipbuilder

    Organisations wishing to hold a public event are subject to certain requirements and restrictions – licenses applied for, health and safety management plans produced, security provided if needed and the event scaled or located appropriately, amongst others.
    Cultural events happening up and down the country all year round do this, so why are some seemingly exempt?
    I’ve yet to hear a decent reason why.

  • shipbuilder

    Comrade Stalin –

    “I’d like to see some sort of substantiation for the idea that the police charge for such events in Belfast. I’ve never heard of it.”

    http://www.psni.police.uk/public_events_that_psni_has_requested_financial_help_from_e~1.pdf

  • Mc Slaggart

    Comrade Stalin

    “banning parades”

    I also think the GAA should pay for the policing of their events (I think they already do). That is a not for profit organisation. (that should keep your Alliance mentality happy)

    What I am applying is simple economic “elasticity of demand”. What we have is an historical anomaly which urgently needs addressing.

    “between the bridges” has given us the “facts” 1

    If each band has on average 20 members then their is approximately only one spectator per band member. Society is paying the cost of bands doing their practice on our main streets.

    1
    10-12 bands and 200-300 spectators

  • between the bridges

    McS the average membership for a band is 49 as per the dept of cultures report, re your calculations how does the ‘first friday’ (90-100 bands 20-25k spectators) parade compute…

  • FDM

    Comrade Stalin 18 September 2013 at 10:40 pm

    This is just a poorly-disguised way of banning parades. You should have the honesty to say so.
    ————————

    Which is why some of us do not try to hide it.

    I think we need to go much further. The OO should be proscribed and membership of such should carry a mandatory jail term.

    I really think proscription should be on the Haass agenda as an Alexandrian solution to the problem. I sure an American like Haass will not take kindly to todays news that Belfast City Centre was down £50million in takings, never mind policing/cleaning costs, due to the fleg-dreggers and collarette-totting peaceful rioters.

    They clearly support terrorist organisations with their banners and musings. They are fundamentally sectarian. They refuse to accept the law as it stands and repeatedly break it. They bring violence and destruction to the streets.

    Proscribe them and be done with it.

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “49 as per the dept of cultures report”

    That would make a 10 band parade with 500 people taking part. Most Youtube videos demonstrate that these parades have hardly anyone come to watch.

    Now if you do have an event with 25k spectators why should the policing costs come out of the policing budget?

  • between the bridges

    McS 10×49 = 490, i get slated for providing links and yet you claim you tube as a source, can you tell me some more about your detailed research? how do you define ‘most’? perhaps you have viewed more than 50% of all band related videos on you tube? does your detailed research this cover just this year or a number of years of viewing? have you correlated the videos and cross referenced them to parades?… obviously my actual knowledge pales when compared to your detailed research but a quick look at you tube finds one ‘site’ with over 3k videos i presume you have watched ‘most’ of these…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “tell me some more about your detailed research”

    Firstly their is two types of research quantitive and qualatitave.

    In any discussion on how many videos need to get an effective sample 50% is way to high. The Belfast tele is using arround a 1000 for the population of NI.

    Ratio: 1.8 million to 1000

    Now what ratio do you think would actually be a reasonable sample?

  • between the bridges

    McS your the one claiming ‘Most Youtube videos demonstrate that these parades have hardly anyone come to watch’, now to me (and i am sure many others) ‘most’ means at least 50%+ i.e more rather than less. You are now saying your definition of ‘most’ is actually 0.05%…moithinks more detailed research is required…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “detailed research” does not require you to examine you to examine every single video. The nature of research is you only examine a sample and from that you come to a conclusion.

    ie

    1.800,000 peoples view on the matter are arrived by only asking 1000 people. ie 1800 :1

    So going by Belfast telly sample I would only need to watch around 10 videos to have a representative sample.

    18000 :10

  • Mc Slaggart

    Apprentice Boys Of Derry 2012

    See the big crowd?

    More importantly see the shoppers waiting to get across at the lights. I have been that shopper on more than one occasion.

  • Mc Slaggart

    How about the 12th in Belfast?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e2Nq_yTh3Y

    Did you notice the orange man collecting money??

    The density of the supporters is say half to one third the amount of people on the road.

  • Mc Slaggart

    The most interesting parade for a long time:

    100th Anniversary of the Ulster Covenant

  • Wow, did you see all those young men marching! There is a future but it’s not Orange.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Ballykeel Band Parade in Ballymena

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_x6Tr9d_XY

    Any chance between the bridges you could post up some videos of Band parades with big crowds?

  • Mc Slaggart

    Mister_Joe

    I think that all that Band parading is a good thing its just not a spectator sport. People learn both music and how to work together.

    The law of diminishing returns occurs during a band parade after you have seen the 3 flute band the 4th is not very exciting.

    All parades should be held in places like Rossnowlagh donegal were there is other things one can do after been bored by the parade.

  • McS,

    I meant the people with the collarettes. I agree it is a good thing for young folks to join bands.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Mister_Joe

    “I meant the people with the collarettes.”

    I honestly do not understand the Orange order any more. ( I probably never did) They appear to have lost moral conviction and decency which I recall from years gone past. I recall “Big Ian” giving it full rant in a packed Big hall at the back of Omagh Main Orange hall. When I drive past the building now its got terrible decayed. The words of the poet Neil Young come into my head when I look at it.

    “It’s better to burn out than to fade away”

  • DC

    The words of the poet Neil Young come into my head when I look at it.

    “It’s better to burn out than to fade away”

    There was me thinking it was from the film Highlander:

  • between the bridges

    McS so you watched 10 videos, well done you! So if i post 10 videos with huge crowds you will accept that as evidence…
    following on from your theme of not you understanding and never will..
    a) Lord bannside isn’t and never has been a OO member
    b) The clip you labelled as ‘100th Anniversary of the Ulster Covenant’ is actually the Balmoral review in april 2012 the covenant parade was the 28th of sept and it took 5hrs to pass.

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “Lord bannside isn’t and never has been a OO member”

    Never said he was?

    “I recall “Big Ian” giving it full rant in a packed Big hall at the back of Omagh Main Orange hall. ”

    I did not say he was a member. In fact I never was a member and they even let me in.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Thanks for the correction on the:

    100th Anniversary of the Ulster Covenant Balmoral

    not being the 100th Anniversary of the Ulster Covenant

    Is this one, the hugh crowds are missing as well.

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    The fact that you extort the fact that it took 5hrs to pass is a shock to me. For me it only highlights how badly the event was organised. (any film approching 2 hours is said to be far to long.)

  • between the bridges

    McS your learning, at least you got the right parade this time! as it was a six mile route and your clip shows spectators on both sides of the road route… and pray do tell what your short attention span has to do with anything…

  • Mc Slaggart

    6 miles:

    2,640 people if they are 2 feet apart in a 1 mile long single file line say 4000.

    say 4 rows the full 6 miles

    =28 thousand round to 30 thousand.

    That would mean one spectator per person on parade.

    My maths may be wrong how many do you work it out to be between the bridges ?

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    If you said 2500 x 4 rows that could make 10 000 a mile that would be a big 60 000.

    + 30 000 on parade

    that is a big 90 000 for the one in 100 years event.

  • between the bridges

    McS to borrow a laconic reply…IF…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “IF…”

    I know the police would never allow you to have a density of 2 feet apart in a 1 mile.

    The very best you could get would be about 4 feet apart which would mean any calculation would give a lot less spectators.

  • between the bridges

    McS…”I know the police would never allow you to have a density of 2 feet apart in a 1 mile.” so what you are saying is you know the police go along asking everyone to stand 4 feet apart…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    The police use crowd control barricades. As a bands person you may not have seen them as they are not needed.

  • between the bridges

    McS I did have a snigger at that! and you are correct (shock but it had to happen sometime) i have never seen the police deploy these ‘crowd control barricades’ that according to you are designed to keep spectators four feet apart. what do they look like? do they have individual standing areas partitioned off at 1.2m intervals…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    “have individual standing areas partitioned off at 1.2m intervals…”

    I can see your problem you are not used to seeing big crowds. Think of someone important and popular cumming to a town such as Santa its then the PSNI will use them.

    What you do with them is create “no access” zones and limit the depth of any crowd.

  • between the bridges

    McS perhaps you misunderstood (sic) i have seen ‘crowd control barricades’ at many parades and events however i have yet to see this device of yours that ensures spectators stand 1.2m apart… perhaps a patent is called for? an appearance on the den?

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    I am sure you have not. As I am aware of your understanding of averages after you posted :

    “between the bridges (profile) 19 September 2013 at 1:21 pm McS 10×49 = 490”

  • between the bridges

    McS, it took you five days to come up with that? if your not going to put a bit of effort in i’m not playing…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    I had no need to point it out until you continue showing a lack of understanding on the issue of the use of averages.

  • between the bridges

    McS sorry, i get you now! so this patent crowd control device keeps spectators an average of 1.2m apart…

  • Mc Slaggart

    between the bridges

    When I wrote

    “The very best you could get would be about 4 feet apart”

    Did you see the word “about”? It means in this context ” around – approximately” .

  • between the bridges

    McS, so when what you wrote was written as ”I know the police would never allow you to have a density of 2 feet apart in a 1 mile.” was this an about, approximate or average mile…