If this is how you treat us now, what might we expect in an all Ireland entity?

Today thousands of members of the Orange Order will descend upon Rosnowlagh, County Donegal to participate in the annual twelfth celebrations that historically take place on the Saturday preceding the twelfth of July. The most remarkable thing about this event is how unremarkable it is.

Cross the border a few miles to Newtownbutler, and all of a sudden a small number of elderly men who have lived in the community all their lives become dangerous triumphalists, who must be prevented from engaging in the hugely offensive act of following an accordion or silver band down the road playing hymns or some innocuous tune.

Granted while not all parades are as inoffensive as Newtownbutler, the vast majority are carried out respectfully with people engaging in their culture which others may dislike, but could at least try to respect.

I myself will be in Crumlin which we attend as the host district once every fourteen years.  Hardly repeated rubbing the other sides nose in it. For the life of me I cannot see the logic in allowing 4,000 people to parade to the field and then have 3,500 walking back on the footpaths. It will cause the police a huge headache.

The opposition to such parades is so counterproductive to the outreach work being carried out by Sinn Fein. Declan Kearney’s recent pronunciations are rendered to dust by what people in the Unionist tradition would see as the bigotry they would be exposed to in an united Ireland.

If that is how we are treated now what might we expect hopelessly outnumbered in an all Ireland is the question in many people’s lips. The idiotic comparisons to Klu Klux Klan and the like only further demonstrate the bigotry and ignorance of republicans to what the Orange Order is really about.

It is all rather unfortunate that Northern republicans cannot control themselves as real progress has been made South of the border, the Boyne Interpretive Centre, recognition of the role of the 16th Irish Division in World War 1, pardons for World War 2 Irishmen who chose to fight the Nazis rather than stand idly by.

The bottom line is that the more Orange feet are prevented from using the Queens Highway, the less likelihood there is for any outreach efforts by Sinn Fein being viewed in a positive light, in spite of the handshake. This is literally where the rubber hits the road.

  • andnowwhat

    Just to address the OP:

    Like the Boy Scouts, the AOH, Gay Parades, The Ginger Lesbians Alliance, in a united Ireland the OO will have to apply to the authorities to march and have a judgement based on all factors.

    Guess what? The same applies in GB as it did in Wooton Basset

  • Looks like ed’s thread is part of a DUP initiative leading up to the twelth. He’s popped up again tonight at hillsborough after being at Drumcree yesterday. Other DUP politicians are making similar noses and appearances.

    So ed’s thread wasn’t outreach it was just utilising Slugger to further his own ends, will have gone down well among the faithful but of little consequence otherwise.

  • andnowwhat

    Everytime I referesh, SOS’s allegation that republicans are ramping things up is at the top. What crap!!! It is unionists and loyalists who are doing that exact thing. They kicked things off nicely with a hatchet/hammer attack on a legitimate protest regarding the queen’s visit then there’s things like Mc Causland’s unsubstantiated attack on a loyalist and Dodd’s poorly veiled threat this evening. We also had the flying of loyalist flags outside a Catholic chapel in Carrick. Nearly forgot that one.

  • andnowwhat

    Articels

    So, what’s happening? Why are the DUP ramping things up? There’s something afoot.

  • “Not that it will help to disabuse you of your sectarian notions, but I’ll try again.”

    CS, calm down dear and put the straw-dogs back on the leash. I’ve produced the evidence of the Athboy strategy and the Dick Spring involvement whereas you merely trot out a few overheated ‘notions’. I seem to have touched a raw nerve 😉

  • “they’re being held hostage”

    Funny you should say that, Clancy25, but IIRC one of the ‘concerned residents’ had previously been caught in the act of holding someone hostage.

    The Dick Spring intervention was quite illuminating; not only did it shed some light on the secret world of London-Dublin communications but it exposed his notion of balance. The intervention only got the one airing on the BBC and it didn’t make it into the BBC and CAIN archives. In the follow-up news briefing we were ‘reliably’ informed that the Chief Constable had made the re-routing decision – by none other than Sir Patrick Mayhew!

    Having been on opposite sides in the Garvaghy/Drumcree debacle it’s now interesting to see the paramilitaries jigging at the interfaces – well, when there’s a bit of money about.

  • “You can’t extend your silly Rathlin ferry scandal bullshit into adult politics.”

    CS, you be right about scandal but my usual term has been saga. It continues to bubble along:

    Before leaving this issue Barney updated the Board on the latest position regarding a possible Risk concerning the Ballycastle to Rathlin Ferry Service which is being managed at Group level … DRD Departmental Board, Feb 2012

    As for the BS, I’ll leave that to the underinformed ‘adults’ ..

  • lamhdearg2

    i seem to remember a young protestant boy was killed by irish nats during rioting after a hunger striker died, so the hunger strikers killed that child, evil bigoted bastards, them hunger strikers where, all of them.

    I shall return with more analogys at a later time,

  • tyrone_taggart

    “The Dick Spring intervention was quite illuminating; not only did it shed some light on the secret world of London-Dublin communications”

    It is called a telephone!

  • williewombat

    poor old tapacall into the myths of whataboutery to justify your hatred of anything Orange. I tolerate but despise your GAA segreation used often in a sectarian and bigoted way the hugh imbalance in funding for the different communities, the millions wasted in trying to destroy the countries economy by your paramilitary mates for decades to say nothing of the lost lives, the misery and destruction to many innocent people. In no mood to take any lectures from you or your ilk the constant whining by nationalists the attempts to equate the Unionist politicians with the blood thirsty physcopaths of the paramilitaries and Sinn Fien maybe it helps you sleep and makes you fell good however with Northern Ireland well established almost 100 years now its time you accepted your dream is just that a dream and started to explore ways in which we can tolerate each other whatever your personal bigotery.

  • tacapall

    williewombat

    “maybe you’ll be able to remember the death toll and violence caused by members of the Orange Order and its supporters troughout the years in their demands to walk wherever they please”

    I’ll start you off, here you go.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407940_344622235561613_100000415196495_1229177_2036388438_n.jpg

  • “It is called a telephone!”

    Nice one, t_t 🙂

    Sometimes governments (and others) find it advantageous to tap telephone conversations; in this case they would have needed to tape a Minister’s mouth 😉 It was just by chance I heard the Spring interview and a call to the DFA in Dublin was promptly rewarded with a transcript.

    A great device, the telephone. It was during the course of a telephone conversation that a young lady unintentionally disclosed the names of two folks at a secret meeting in or near Derry on November 5, 1993, “Oh you mean Martin and Mitchel”. A third person was none other than the then boss of MI6, the Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd.

  • tyrone_taggart

    “Sir Patrick Mayhew”

    …”made the re-routing decision”

    apart from who cares what I find interesting that you think that it was a one person decision.

  • “what I find interesting that you think that it was a one person decision.”

    Just when you were doing so well, t_t 🙁

    Can you demonstrate that those two pieces of the jig-saw fit together and that that one person was Sir Patrick?

  • john

    Orange men treated in the Republic with respect, orange men treated in Northern Ireland like scum therefore United Ireland is bad eh what????? With such logic I can now understand the whole blood donor shambles lol

  • williewombat

    Tacapall

    Find anything about the sectarian murders in Tullyvallen, Kingsmills or if we are going back in time have you anything on Cork oh no sorry they were all committed by heroes and I m sure there was some great justification for them from the Nationalist victims society. To be honest your bigotery is so ingrained and evident your past the point of rational discussion closed mind brainwashed to be a victim hope you get better soon.

  • tacapall

    Willie whats up, do you expect everyone to forget about the trail of death and destruction that has followed the Orange Order throughout the years. Explain to us Nationalists again why the Orange Order wont talk to Sinn Fein ?

  • babyface finlayson

    lamhdearg2 ,
    “i seem to remember a young protestant boy was killed by irish nats during rioting after a hunger striker died, so the hunger strikers killed that child, evil bigoted bastards, them hunger strikers where, all of them.”
    Clearly Orangemen did not march directly from Drumcree to the Quinn family home to burn it down.
    Would you accept that the standoff ratcheted up tension at the time and as such was a contributing factor to the attack, just as in your analogy?
    If you allow your organisation to be involved in such brinkmanship, then you cannot wash your hands of the consequences.
    Something which was, I think, recognised by many Orangemen at the time, leading to a falling off in the support for the protest.

  • williewombat

    tacapall

    Whine on Tapapall 335 members of the Institution killed by your murdering friends their families left in turmoil hundreds of attacks on Orange Halls an ochestrated campaign against the Institution by Gerry i was never in the IRA and his mates. Everybody move on except for us whining and droning on always the victims eh. Believe all we say just because we engaged in years of mayhem and murder without remorse doesn`t mean you can`t trust us now you know we wouldn`t tell lies or anything. We had to find new ways you know too many informers in our ranks and America got very cross at anyone using terrorism to advance their aims oh why won`t those big bad Orangemen just forget all that and come and ask our permission to exist. Your havin a laugh

  • tacapall

    Willie have you any evidence 335 people were killed by people who are friends of mine ? Do you even know me ? I suggest you base your argument on fact rather than assumption and please in the interests of expanding the credibility of what you say read up on the events of the past 40 years, Im sure you’ll find there were others who carried out murder and mayhem, they were from the loyalist community and aided and abetted by your beloved RUC some of whom were members of the Orange Order but Im sure you’ll just stick your head in the sand like most Unionists and pretend that never happened.

  • TheGoblinPrince

    Why would anyone want to burn effigies of the Pope? Seems a bit childish.

  • williewombat

    tacapall

    your funny because you don`t me either did I mention the RUC anywhere did I say I was a Unionist or did I say there weren`t others engaged in violent and unlawful activities do you just make it up as you go along whine whine whine your boring me to death as for not knowing you all your posts across the threads make me feel I`v known you for years bigoted and brainwashed in victimhood never looking forward always looking back pathetic

  • Drumlins Rock

    taca, 60, 30, 10.

  • williewombat

    TheGoblinPrince

    Better to burn effigies than real people we have had plenty of that you poor sensitive wee didums perhaps it was inspired by the victims of child abuse in the Catholic church or just because he has inspired so much that others consider to be wrong in the world or perhaps hes the leader of the church who had hundreds of thousands of members who supported and voted for terrorists whilst they were still murdering and terrorising their neighbours nothings ever simple is it sorry if this doesn`t fit in with your victim state of mind

  • TheGoblinPrince

    I’m not Catholic or Irish. I’m British. I don’t think there is anything British about bigotry towards another religion. The Catholc Church formulated Western European culture for centuries. Without we’d live in a much poorer world. There would be no protestant church for a start.

  • TheGoblinPrince

    I also seem to remeber when the last Pope visited the Republic in the 70’s or 80’s he publicly called in the IRA to stop. Hardly encouragement is it? I imagine most Nationalists wear shoes, do you burn effigies of shoemakers? Or go to the shops. Do you burn effigies of shopkeepers? Or drive cars. Do you burn effigies of racing drivers? It’s just childish really and designed to insult people.

  • tacapall

    Willie you’re bordering on the hysterical, making wild accusations not only about the leader of the Catholic faith but about other commenters. When are you going to produce this evidence that friends of mine murdered 335 people ?

  • “I’m British. I don’t think there is anything British about bigotry towards another religion.”

    About half the folks in NI and quite a few in GB would call themselves British; the mainstream Christian churches can be less than complimentary about one another.

    Guy Fawkes night seems to be the main time for burning effigies of the Pope in various parts of the UK and it still goes on even if Vatican political interventions have greatly declined.

  • tacapall

    Nevin do you think if it was effigies of Allah on the top of those bonfires on the 12th July and some of the speeches made at Orange Order parades were directed at the Islamic faith it would be tolerated by the government.

  • TheGoblinPrince

    To be fair about the Novemeber 5th thing people burn effigies of Guy Fawkes rather than the Pope. Although I think there are a couple of small villages who do, but it’s not wide-spread by any means. Besides, Catholics are just as likely to take part as anyone else, my local Catholic school has a display every year. Christian British people, I don’t know anyone who goes to church. Someone might say they’re Catholic or CoE or whatever but they don’t practice. I’ve never heard one religion slag of another apart from the far right idiots slag off Islam.

  • williewombat

    tacapall

    Not hysterical perhaps a little provocative but its the downfall of the internet debate more about defending and attacking than developing agreement your right of course evidence that friends of yours were involved in murder is hard come by just shows how guilt by association can be wrong just in the same way as you labelled me with all sorts of things I`ll withdraw my comment that they were your friends that committed the murders however I have heard the views you articulate expressed by those who constantly attack and demonise a whole community to try and justify such actions and I accept also it works both ways question is do you

  • tacapall, governments in these islands tolerate a lot of things so there is no definitive answer available.

  • tacapall

    Willie I do not support Sinn Fein nor do I support using violence to achieve anything and I dont constantly demonise nor attack the protestant community. I have no problem with Unionism expressing its cultures and traditions be that British or Irish but I do have a problem when its rammed down my throat, when Im expected to pay for it in my pocket and the unnecessary sectarian trappings that follow this tradition every year. like below

    The banner of Old Boyne Island Heroes Orange lodge bears the names of John Bingham and Shankill Butcher Robert Bates, who were both members. Another Shankill Butcher, Eddie McIlwaine, was pictured taking part in an Orange march in 2003 with a bannerette of dead UVF volunteer Brian Robinson (who himself was an Orangeman). While in the Maze Prison, Bates’s funeral was attended by a large number of Orange lodge representatives.

  • tacapall

    Nevin I’ll accept that as it is “Dodging the question”

  • tacapall, as an observer of governments it’s the only answer I can come up with.

  • williewombat

    tacapall

    Whats rammed down your throat mean ? What do you mean by the word sectarian ? Do you subscribe to collections or something?
    I understand the Institution has dealt with most of the issues above cannot be 100% sure but would need some up to date evidence glorifying terrorism will never be right from whatever quarter whether The Orange Order or The GAA however after the decades of murder and mayhem it was never going to be totally erradicated overnight. As beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to is demonisation.
    Not supporting Sinn Fein is hardly the same as evenhandedness have you ever posted opposing GAA or other Nationalist Glorification of terrorists have you a list of GAA clubs who do? Did you actively oppose those who were setting their neighbours up for murder? Have you given any support to the families of the disappeared? Perhaps you have I don`t know I merely attempt to illustrate that there are fears, insecurities, open wounds and blind hatred on all sides in Northern Ireland how could it be other with the pain of the past. It will be a long haul to address them especially without tolerance even of those things we don`t either agree with or like.

  • lamhdearg2

    babyface,
    “Would you accept that the standoff ratcheted up tension at the time and as such was a contributing factor to the attack, just as in your analogy?”
    I would accept the stand off ratcheted up tension, I would also say the a stand off requires two sides, I dont accept there is any proof that the killers where acting in any way as a reaction to the stand off, they where uvf, and at that time the uvf was against what the O.O. was doing at drumcree, (remember billy wright).

  • harpo

    “Who do you think will hold a referendum if a U.I. is ever achieved?”

    I didn’t mention a referendum.

    There is more than 1 way to bring about political change.

    All I’m saying is that unionists could very well remain unionists. And if they were successful they could either get the whole island of Ireland back into the UK, or part of it.

    Anything is possible.

  • Comrade Stalin

    lamhdearg:

    “i seem to remember a young protestant boy was killed by irish nats during rioting after a hunger striker died, so the hunger strikers killed that child, evil bigoted bastards, them hunger strikers where, all of them.”

    It would not have been my choice to draw a comparison between the Orange Order and the provos.

  • Albansmoustache

    I’m of the belief that a man who thinks the the world is 6000 years old should not be listened to, ever.

  • Greenflag

    @ Albansmoustache ,

    ‘I’m of the belief that a man who thinks the the world is 6000 years old should not be listened to, ever.’

    Seems a bit harsh .What if the poor half wit is confined in a wheelchair dribbling , drooling and demented and needs the medical orderly to push the chair over the Causeway into the sea -Surely that would merit not just a listening to but full compliance of the ‘creationists’ wishes?