Clinton Centre breaches EU funding criteria?

As a result of Pete’s blog on the Clinton Centre, it seems Slugger may have accidentally discovered an EU project that has previously breached its funding criteria:

We have taken advice in relation to the funding conditions and as a result are not in a position to host activity by any political party

[added emphasis]

The centre has hosted at least two events for the SDLP.

So were they wrong in their rejection of the SF event or admitting they’ve previously broken the rules?

, , , ,

  • SDLP supporter

    It’s ‘Clinton’, not ‘Clifton’, I believe. Don’t remember a President Bill Clifton.

    Maybe they just weren’t aware of the ruling up to now, but it seems pretty definitive.

  • Mark McGregor

    SDLP Supporter,

    Thanks. Fixed.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Excellent work, Mark.

    Sinn Fein should seek an apology from the Centre.

  • alan56

    I wonder if a live TV broadcast with local politicians broke the rule?

  • Alf

    “Excellent work, Mark.

    Sinn Fein should seek an apology from the Centre.”

    For what? For not being able to stage an event glorifying a terrorist on the site of one of his organisation’s most disgusting atrocities?

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    …and some people had previously suggested on Slugger that the boul Pete was anti-SF.

  • Mark McGregor

    ‘Alf’,

    If that was even a little true, it’d be a fair argument -pity it didn’t hit that level of truth.

    This isn’t the site of the bomb.

    An EU funded site only open to ‘some’ political groups – the
    SDLP.

    Who runs this place?

  • granni trixie

    Aside from the funding rules, would it not have been extremely insensitive to hold commemorations for a hunger strlker in the Centre in view of peoples memories of the Omagh bomb?

    Incidentally, I was standing beside a former hunger striker at the peace rally today at Belfast City Hall. I was wondering what was going on in his head. Have to say that that notable SF people there looked uneasy. It may be that Saturday’s reality is pricking consciences. Or not.

  • ranger1640

    Its interesting that Sinn Fein supporters are drawing a parallel with the SDLP, holding a tourism and economic seminar in the Clinton centre. When Sinn Fein wanted to hold a purely political event, on the politically and republican terrorist charged event that was the IRA hunger strike. I suppose the SDLP can be drawn into this, and they do have a bit of form on this issue. As they stood aside for the IRA hunger striker to have a clear run in the election. Politics does throw up some strange bed fellows. And its nice to see in the Sinn Fein Ireland of equals where the Sinn Fein respect mantra is trotted out time and time again. Sinn Fein show no respect for the 11 victims of the IRA, at the site of one of their worst atrocities. As republicans and shinners, its only there victim hood that is to be respected, and to feck with everybody else’s.

  • Drumlins Rock

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1175903/I-trussed-like-turkey-waiting-bullet-head–chilling-film-reveals-life-IRA-double-agent.html

    Article contains a picture of the bomb site.

    http://www.joan-shannon.co.uk/warmemorial.htm

    slightly different angle but clearly shows the centre is on the exact site of the bomb, you know the bomb that Sinn Fein/ IRA planted to kill 11 innocent people, you wonder why people object, SF should be too ashamed to even set foot in the building.

  • Chris Donnelly

    For what? For not being able to stage an event glorifying a terrorist on the site of one of his organisation’s most disgusting atrocities?

    Alf
    Take off the blinkers, Alfie….As Mark states, this was not the site of the bomb, and attempting to stake exclusive ownership of the venue for unionism harks back to a supremacist era unionism is supposed to moving away from.

    Also, Sands was not a terrorist in the eyes of many, not least I’d imagine a considerable number who elected him as MP for the very constituency within which the town of Enniskillen is located.

  • Drumlins Rock

    “The Clinton Centre was built in 2002 and dedicated to Bill Clinton and his contribution to the Peace Process in Northern Ireland. Costing more than £3m it includes education and community facilities and an art gallery, and was opened by President Clinton. The centre is built on the site of one of Northern Ireland’s worst atrocities – the Poppy Day bombing which killed 11 people on Remembrance Sunday, 1987. It is a dramatic modern building and has renewable technology in the form of solar panels integrated into the design and solar water heaters.” from http://www.archiseek.com

  • Cynic2

    “Sands was not a terrorist in the eyes of many”

    Just as having sex with minors is seen as wrong by many people as perfectly acceptable. Even within Sinn Fein as I recall. Wasn’t the advice to ‘forget about it and get on with your life”

    But that doesn’t mean that Sands wasn’t a terrorist and it doesn’t make his crimes right

  • Alf

    “Take off the blinkers, Alfie….As Mark states, this was not the site of the bomb, and attempting to stake exclusive ownership of the venue for unionism harks back to a supremacist era unionism is supposed to moving away from.

    Also, Sands was not a terrorist in the eyes of many, not least I’d imagine a considerable number who elected him as MP for the very constituency within which the town of Enniskillen is located.”

    Christy,

    Tell us all about how the Enniskillen bomb was a tragic mistake as it was aimed at ‘combatants’.

  • ranger1640

    Sinn Fein respect, you got to be kidding.

    The Clinton Centre in Enniskillen — built on the site of the old reading rooms where the infamous poppy day bomb had been planted — with the 830am opening of the programme coming from the cenotaph itself in Belmore Street. I was to stand at the War Memorial accompanied by David Cupples and Selwyn Johnston and we would begin the programme by talking about their memories of Remembrance Day 1987 when twelve people lost their lives.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2007/11/bombscare_in_enniskillen.html

  • aquifer

    Keeping political parties out of public buildings may be a legacy of our own abusive stypes of politics. Politics is normal and should be allowed wherever possible. The rule is bogus as parties get to use public council buildings all the time.

    Sinn Fein are free to hold meetings on the site of the remembrance day murders, and others can criticise them for it without getting shot beaten or threatened.

  • DC

    Alf
    Take off the blinkers, Alfie….As Mark states, this was not the site of the bomb, and attempting to stake exclusive ownership of the venue for unionism harks back to a supremacist era unionism is supposed to moving away from.

    How very progressive of SF, to occupy a venue in order to to hark back to the past, a past people are trying to get away from!

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    DC,

    re. “hark back to the past”

    Just to complete the circle – isn’t that what Rembrance Sunday is all about – honouring those who fought in Britian’s wars.

    Fine for ussuns but not for themmuns perhaps – and many of the campaigns that were fought by the British had much less justification than the Provos had – at least the Provos were fighting for their own country not trying to thrash someones elses and I’m sure even most British people would agree with that.

  • Chris Donnelly

    It is ironic that, as unionist politicians desperately seek to lobby British army regiments involved in killing civilians and other combatants in foreign conflicts to parade through Enniskillen and Belfast, we should be lectured by other unionists about the inappropriateness of remembering those combatants involved in conflicts.

    Beam and mote, people…..

  • DC

    Just to complete the circle – isn’t that what Rembrance Sunday is all about – honouring those who fought in Britian’s wars.

    True but the IRA was an illegal entity and not recognised by the Irish government as a force, it’s been illegal since the foundation of the state in 1921 as the IRA do not recognise the government or the police force or the army as the official state bodies.

    Whereas the British army was and is legal – the power of the sovereign state holds more sway than illegal paramilitaries – while of course such a power is still open to abuse it was and is still that – a legally recognised power.

    I’m afraid to say might was right for a long long time – till Hitler tested that to its end, WWII was all about annilihation and about testing out might is right to its outermost limits, a war which the Free State strangely enough remained neutral on.

    Funny that – because wasn’t might is right the biggest and probably the best charge the Irish had against the Brits, their abuse of might is right in Ireland, but looked the other way when Hitler sparked a world war which killed in total an estimated 60 million (civilians and soldiers combined).

    But still, that’s the way she goes!

  • DC

    and of course the actions of the IRA was indeed a form of ‘might is right’ which kind of cancels out any moral argument SF had on the British army for doing the very same thing!

    But still.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    DC,

    “Whereas the British army was and is legal ” – even taking that arguement at face value – it certainly didnt apply to Iraq did it?

    But I do love the “I’m afraid to say might was right for a long long time – till Hitler tested that to its end, ”

    I do love that one – its ok to do might is right until someone else is mightier.

    FYI Hitler, not suprisinlgy, was a massive fan of and got inspriation from the British Empire. lol

  • “Just as having sex with minors is seen as wrong by many people as perfectly acceptable”

    Perhaps there is more than just an analogy here. Just as sexual abusers build up their fantasy worlds in which they place themselves and their victims, so also does the typical Republican attach themselves to a fantasy world in which terrorists are seen as having fought a righteous war and when they die in action, are glorified as martyrs. Both sets of behaviour are deviant from normal human decent behaviour and both have their root causes in a traumatic past.

    Republican commemorations might look harmless. However, when they are married up with the following features: (a) Sinn Fein being incapable of demonstrating that the IRA achieved anything through armed struggle; and (b) Dissident republicans still remaining active; they are likely to inspire a small but significant section of young republicans towards criminality.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    DC,

    …and specifically on the past thing.

    How come you guys get to hark back to past and we dont?

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    “Republican commemorations might look harmless. However, when they are married up with the following features: (a) Sinn Fein being incapable of demonstrating that the IRA achieved anything through armed struggle;

    Usual old Unionist nonsense, I’m afraid its time for the Romans… apart form getting rid of the Orange state, the RUC, the UDR, getting all their prisoners out, getting gerrymandered into government, and a veto on political devolpments without the say of the Irish people, and a say for the Irish government in Ulster’s affairs.

    I have no truck with the dissers but to be fair to them they have seen the British rollover a few times – Thatch even tried to pass off South Armagh to the South for fecks sake.

  • Skinner

    Absolutely amazing that Sinn Fein supporters on here have the brass neck to try to justify such a callous idea as holding such an event at this site. And to try to claim it’s not actually on the site shows the same blind ignorance of the facts that allows them to justify the IRA campaign as a whole. Chris and Sammy if you are to have any credibility at all have a long hard think about this and come back with some sense – evidently others in Sinn Fein have.

  • “Usual old Unionist nonsense”

    A predicable reaction to my comment. It is not a particularly “unionist” point of view. It is actually a non Sinn Fein point of view.

  • between the bridges

    good to see the old cut and run tic tacts are still employed! the speed of SF’s, tail between legs, departure tells it’s own story

  • Chris Donnelly

    Seymour
    There must be something akin to Godwin’s Law regarding the resort to sexual abuse in political discussions. Upon reflection, I think/ hope you’ll find your train of thought rather silly.

    Both Seymour and Skinner appear to have difficulties seeing things outside of their comfort zone.

    Consider, for a second, how the prospect of loyalist remembrance in the form of British armed forces or Loyal Order/ Band gatherings are observed by nationalists. Should unionists be banned from public buildings on account of previous incidents?

    Were that the case then Stormont would never have been revisited as a venue for governance after unionism’s 50 years of misrule, never mind unionists permitted to return to the Guildhall in Derry following generations of gerrymandering.

  • “There must be something akin to Godwin’s Law regarding the resort to sexual abuse in political discussions”

    I maintain what I said about communal fantasy. Take for example the fact that republicans believe that Mrs. Thatcher murdered the hunger strikers. Of course, a murder victim, unlike the hunger strikers, does not decide whether they live or die. Still, that is what republicans say and believe about the hunger strike.

    A tramatic past makes communal myth-making more likely to take root, just as it did in Germany, when its people ended up believing what Hitler said about the Jews. If the myth-believing is left unchecked, it eventually becomes theology. Myth-making is not unique to Sinn Fein. It has affected loyalists in the past too.

  • Chris Donnelly

    A tramatic past makes communal myth-making more likely to take root, just as it did in Germany, when its people ended up believing what Hitler said about the Jews.

    Seymour
    And there it is! Well done Seymour. I thought you were going to be content with just skirting around Godwin but you’ve actually managed to wheel him out regardless.

    Just as well unionism has never engaged in ‘communal myth-making’ eh…….LOL

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Skinner,

    I do agree that there should be sensitivity displayed when commemorating ‘war deeds’ – including in this case.

    My point is that our ‘heoes’ on this side of the fence tend to have started out their military careers in a ditch rather than in Sandhurst and their are many examples from Ireland’s history and elsewhere that being inside the ‘law’ is not a good indiactor of the merit or morals of military action.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Seymour Major,

    The vast majority of historians and commentators, British and Irish link the political change in Ulster to the political violence during the troubles.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Seymour,

    “It has affected loyalists in the past too.”

    … and what about the Englezes?

    The myth making regading the role of the British army in Ulster and elsewhere has largely gone unchalleneged (until Saville) with any questions met with the embarassing riposte our boys are the best in the world and clealry led to the position where they could shoot up a civil rights demonstration with the full political backing of the Tory government and the judiciary and continue to collude with Loyalists to take out Republicans.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Taken from the other thread,

    “We have taken advice in relation to the funding conditions and as a result are not in a position to host activity by any political party,” he said.

    This statement has now been shown to have been false, or else the spokesperson should clarify that at the time of the SDLP sponsored events the centre management were unsure of how the centre should be run. Either way a further statement is required by the ‘spokesperson’.

  • Skinner

    Chris

    “Consider, for a second, how the prospect of loyalist remembrance in the form of British armed forces or Loyal Order/ Band gatherings are observed by nationalists. Should unionists be banned from public buildings on account of previous incidents?

    Were that the case then Stormont would never have been revisited as a venue for governance after unionism’s 50 years of misrule, never mind unionists permitted to return to the Guildhall in Derry following generations of gerrymandering.”

    I have considered it for more than a second. No matter how much you try to create a whatabout analogy that fits, it just doesn’t. Surely surely SURELY you can admit that holding an event which commemorates an IRA man on the actual site where the IRA killed 12 civilians is insensitive and should not have been proposed?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    grannie trixie wrote;

    “Have to say that that notable SF people there looked uneasy.”

    As someone who was standing with them I find your observation (if that what it really was) pretty far removed from the truth.

  • between the bridges

    Pat as someone who was ‘standing with them’, can i ask you if you where all so confident of the justification of holding this event at this location….why ya’s run like a pack of jesse’s?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    “Pat as someone who was ‘standing with them’, can i ask you if you where all so confident of the justification of holding this event at this location….why ya’s run like a pack of jesse’s?”

    Can someone help me with this?

  • granni trixie

    Mr Brush: though still glad that you are alive to tell the tale you take my breath away for whilst I am not a supporter of the SDLP I am certainly aware that they have never used violence and doubt if they attract anyone you could label “terrorist”.
    For the record, I object to you being free to make such statements ..surely you are breaking some code of conduct?

  • Drumlins Rock

    WARNING THIS IS NOT SAMMY BRUSH IT IS AN IMPOSTER

  • between the bridges

    P-A-T i bow to your superior knowledge on foul smelling hot air…but pray do tell why relocate 25 miles away? would no one else in enniskillen have you?

  • Alf

    If this thread proves anything it is that the crack Sinner Internet Rebuttal Flying Column is on standby to defend anything that they have done in real life. regardless of how utterly disgusting and indefensible it might happen to be.

    Comparing Remembrance Day with terrorist commemorations is particularly fascinating. For anyone who wants an insight into what drives the minds of people who support murderers.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Alf,

    Presumably you do pay some attention to current affairs?

    If yes, then perhaps you are aware that those who carried out the mass murder and torture in Kenys and whose actions are being concealed by the current Tory government are included in the Remembrance day commemorations?

    Those British heroes make the Provos look like boy scouts.

  • between the bridges

    re topic MMcG any luck in finding where the site was?

  • son of sam

    Skinner seems surprised that Sinn Fein supporters have brass necks.On what planet has he been living? There is daily evidence of this.If one reads Jim Gibneys column in todays Irish News you will see an example.When his associates were murdering policemen years ago it was apparently justifiable while now he professes outrage.Do leopards change their spots?

  • Alf

    “Presumably you do pay some attention to current affairs?

    If yes, then perhaps you are aware that those who carried out the mass murder and torture in Kenys and whose actions are being concealed by the current Tory government are included in the Remembrance day commemorations?

    Those British heroes make the Provos look like boy scouts.”

    Sammy,

    I do indeed keep up with current events, and you are correct to point out that in worldwide terms the Provos were a Mickey Mouse outfit. However that doesn’t make your desperate attempts at whataboutery any less laughable.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Alf,

    “Comparing Remembrance Day with terrorist commemorations is particularly fascinating. ”

    It is indeed fascinating.

    Do you accept that those Briitsh soldiers who murderd and tortured (as reported by British Officals) in Kenya are covered by the the Remembrance Day commemorations?

  • Alf

    “Do you accept that those Briitsh soldiers who murderd and tortured (as reported by British Officals) in Kenya are covered by the the Remembrance Day commemorations?”

    Sammy,

    I accept that you are desperately attempting to divert attention away from the subject of the threat. Which is about the disgusting efforts by Sinn fein to hold a commemoration for an IRA terrorist on the exact site of an IRA atrocity which was so disgusting that even Soviet Russia condemned it.

  • Mike the First

    Chris Donnelly

    “Should unionists be banned from public buildings on account of previous incidents?”

    Posing this question as a response to the point that a commemoration for an IRA terrorist shouldn’t take place on the site of a notorious IRA atrocity reveals rather a lot about your mindset – both illogical and deeply prejudiced.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Alf,

    “Comparing Remembrance Day with terrorist commemorations is particularly fascinating. ”

    I’m discussing something you told me only a few minutes ago was ‘fascinating’ – you seem to be tripping over your shoelaces now.

    So, lets discuss this ‘fascinating’ subject – no ducking and diving.

    Do you accept that those Briitsh soldiers who murderd and tortured (as reported by British Officals) in Kenya are covered by the the Remembrance Day commemorations?”

  • Alf

    “Do you accept that those Briitsh soldiers who murderd and tortured (as reported by British Officals) in Kenya are covered by the the Remembrance Day commemorations?””

    Sammy,

    I’m sorry, but I can’t see how events in Kenya sixty years ago are in any way relevant to the fact that the Sinners attempted to celebrate an IRA terrorist, on the exact site of an IRA atrocity, which was so disgusting that it attracted criticism from the Politburo.

    Unless of course you are deliberately attempting to divert attention from such a stomach churning action by the Sinners.

  • Mick Fealty

    Mark, Chris and Sammy,

    You have each of you on asserted this centre was not but on the bomb site. You’ve been given clear evidence it was.

    An acknowledgement would be nice. Otherwise this thread starts to read as a black is White activist line. I expect that from the occasionally blackguardly Sammy, but not you two.

    Good work on the initial story though Mark! I wonder who else has beenbreaching their funding rules?

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Mick,

    You said.

    “You have each of you on asserted this centre was not but on the bomb site. You’ve been given clear evidence it was”

    Not sure how you can extract that meaning from my comments below?

    ” I do agree that there should be sensitivity displayed when commemorating ‘war deeds’ – including in this case.”

    Alf,

    My comments above show I am not deflecting anything but rather think that SF should taken into account local feeling.

    My issue with the subject of Remebrance Day is that in this thread Unionists are quite happy to celebrate those involved in nefarious acts such as those in Kenya – whilst trying to claim the high moral ground over Republican commemerations. It is reasonable in my opinion to point that out to you.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    “P-A-T i bow to your superior knowledge on foul smelling hot air…but pray do tell why relocate 25 miles away? would no one else in enniskillen have you?”

    Got you now, a direct question. I have absolutely no idea why they located 25 miles away, size of venue possibly.

    As for no one in Enniskillen to ‘have you’, well all I can say is that question was answered most emphatically on the 6th May 2010. Poor old Arlene Foster still gets into a bit of a tizzy when reminded of her (premature) BBC celebrations.

  • Mick Fealty

    Pat,

    I case you wondering I removed that comment for man playing.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Fair enough Mick, It was just gibberish to me and didn’t seem too much like man playing.

    On the wider point it seems that the Clinton Centre will end up suffering here. I have no doubt at all that it was well aware of the party political criteria but as long as it remained below the radar the managment committee probably just turned a blind eye in order to take advantage of much needed revenue (whatever the source).
    As reported in the Impartial Reporter there does seem to have been an organised Unionist protest with people being encouraged to phone the centre to express ‘outrage’.

    It has become apparent that all political parties have used the centre for various set piece media stunts. The Unionist campaign has ensured that all parties will not have use of the centre from here on in.

    I would suggest that there will be a virtual civil aware of scrutiny on even the most innocuous of events.

  • granni trixie

    Pat: why label protest at the use of Centre for IRA commemorations as “unionist”. Surely across the board there are many who object,finding it insensitive to say the least?.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    granni trixie,

    The Impartial Reporter states,

    “It’s understood he received numerous telephone calls from the Unionist community instructing him to cancel the event.

    And in fact, a fierce campaign was launched earlier in the week.

    The Impartial Reporter has obtained a message that was circulated, appealing to people to phone the centre management with their “disgust”.

    The message, circulating as a text, an e-mail and through Facebook read: “This should be stopped, please help us get this stopped”.

    It further reports;

    “Politicians Arlene Foster and Tom Elliott, plus Assembly Candidate Alex Elliott who stopped the event taking place.”

    It is the Reporter that is emphasising the Unionist element to the campaign and naming the Unionist politicans who orchestrated it.

  • Skinner

    People just don’t seem to get it. The problem is not with the fact that the Clinton Centre was to be used for a political event in breach of EU funding (even though that was the technical reasoning relied upon), the problem was the deep insensitivity of commemorating an IRA man on the very site where the IRA killed 12 civilians.

    It seems some posters would like to portray this as some sort of Unionist-manufactured outrage but it is clear to anyone with the blinkers off that this was an ridiculously empathy-bare plan by Sinn Fein and they have rightly changed it. Stephen Gault (son of one of the victims) and a number of others expressed their understandable anger and unionist politicians helped to resolve the problem. That is what politicans are for.

  • Mark McGregor

    Mea culpa – for the inaccurate comment on the site.

    I was given a bum steer and haven’t been around to admit it.

    Apologies to those who followed my bad information.

    Apologies to everyone for getting it wrong.

    Apologies that the actual topic has largely been ignored as a result.

  • Mark McGregor

    However, the blog post remains totally accurate despite the comment – the centre was caught giving an inaccurate position on the holding of party political events.

  • Pete Baker

    Mark

    From the Impartial Reporter

    Reacting, a [Clinton Centre] spokesperson told this newspaper: “A number of political parties including Sinn Fein have in the past used the Clinton Centre for a variety of events without any comments being received by the Centre. The Centre had been contacted following a news article and advised to check the conditions of funding that had been received by the Centre. We have taken advice in relation to the funding conditions and as a result are not in a position to host activity by any political party. We have communicated this to Sinn Fein and as a result they have rearranged the venue for their public talk this week,” he said.

  • Alf

    “Alf,

    My comments above show I am not deflecting anything but rather think that SF should taken into account local feeling.

    My issue with the subject of Remebrance Day is that in this thread Unionists are quite happy to celebrate those involved in nefarious acts such as those in Kenya – whilst trying to claim the high moral ground over Republican commemerations. It is reasonable in my opinion to point that out to you.”

    Sammy,

    Remembrance day is about remembering those who gave their lives in Two World wars and subsequent conflicts. Are you suggesting that Unionists turn up at it to celebrate those who abused their positions of power?

    The big difference is that the IRA’s entire existence was about murdering people. Atrocities were the norm for the Provos. they are an anomaly amongst those remembered on November 11th.

    You can twist around in your mind all you like, but for the vast majority of civilised people in the world Remembrance day is a day of honour. Days spent remembering terrorist suicide victims are days of shame which no decent person would want to be associated with.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Alf,

    “The big difference is that the IRA’s entire existence was about murdering people. Atrocities were the norm for the Provos. they are an anomaly amongst those remembered on November 11th.”

    Is it OK like the Queen is doing to remember the IRA from the first half of 20th century – have you got a problem with that?

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete,

    Are you suggesting a claim of ignorance of the rules is a defence?

    Reads to me like an absolute admission they have broken their funding criteria on numerous occassions.

    The only possible further aspect to this story will now be, do funders take action since their failure to comply with conditions has been so publicly admitted.

  • Mick Fealty

    II don’t think so Mark. I think he’s suggesting the assumption that several people on this thread made – ie, one rule for SF another for everyone else – was, well, ill-founded.

    I also owe Sammy an apology for falsely corralling him into the same space as yourself and Chris on the centre, ie asserting it was not built on the bombsite.