Dominic – computer says ‘kneel’

The SDLP’s main Irish language activist Doiminic O Brolcháin, Dominic Bradley on the SDLP and his own website, has clarified not a lot when it comes to filling in a census form in Irish:

Initially he complained there was no Irish version of the form:

In absence of an Irish version of the census form, I have asked Census 2011 if it’s legal to fill the English form in Irish. To date, I have had no response.

But now Bradley claims he has had a victory in ensuring it is not illegal to fill in English language forms as Gaelige:

The SDLP Irish language spokesperson said: “There has been some debate around whether or not it is illegal to fill in census forms in Irish.

“I have clarified this issue with the office of the finance minister and it has been indicated that although an Irish language version of the form is not available this time, it is not illegal to complete the forms in Irish and no action will be taken against anyone who completes the form in Irish.

However, the guidance notes included with Census forms remain specific:

Talking your language

You need to complete your answers in English, but you can get a copy of the questions in your own language’

With the forms clearly designed to be read by computer, I assume Dominic has looked into how many translators have been employed to deal with answers not in English?

Not illegal? But binned? Is that a result?

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  • Drumlins Rock

    Can Dominic produce ONE person who is able to fill the form in in Irish but not in English?

    However I could probably produce dozens in Dungannon alone who cannot understand the form at all, stunts like this do the language no good whatsoever and drag it down to a political football once again.

    why not spend the money these irish language versions would cost on translating more literature into Irish, or encourage writers, or producing plays or short films, let the language live not strangle it in the jargon of a census form.

  • JH

    Glad this was cleared up, I’ll be filling it in as gaeilge so.

  • I saw that earlier and Im certainly taking it as “an solas glas” (the green light) to go ahead and complete it in the First National Language……and I think he would have to be pretty certain that no action will be taken.
    After all if the Census people dont issue a clarification before Sunday, then a lot of people will be completing it
    “as gaelige”
    If people like myself and MMG act on it…..and it turns out to be wrong…..then that would rebound on SDLP badly over next few weeks.
    Even people who always intended to do it off their own bat would (esp SF voters) would claim that it “was Dominic Bradley wot told me”

    So as far as Im concerned he must have got it right. After all the SDLP published it as fact.
    So fair play ortsa Dominic.

    so useful phrases
    “Págánach” (Pagan)
    “Caitliceach” (Catholic)
    “saoranach na hÉireann” (Irish citizen”
    “gan reiligiún” (no religion)
    “saoranach na hÉireann” (Irish citizen”
    “ridere Jedi” (I presume Jedi Knight).

    Census night…..a game for all the family.

    “tá mé ag caint breag faoi gach rud”

  • I saw that earlier and Im certainly taking it as “an solas glas” (the green light) to go ahead and complete it in the First National Language……and I think he would have to be pretty certain that no action will be taken.
    After all if the Census people dont issue a clarification before Sunday, then a lot of people will be completing it
    “as gaelige”
    If people like myself and MMG act on it…..and it turns out to be wrong…..then that would rebound on SDLP badly over next few weeks.
    Even people who always intended to do it off their own bat would (esp SF voters) would claim that it “was Dominic Bradley wot told me”

    So as far as Im concerned he must have got it right. After all the SDLP published it as fact.
    So fair play ortsa Dominic.

    so useful phrases
    “Págánach” (Pagan)
    “Caitliceach” (Catholic)
    “saoranach na hÉireann” (Irish citizen”
    “gan reiligiún” (no religion)

    “ridere Jedi” (I presume Jedi Knight).

    Census night…..a game for all the family.

    “tá mé ag caint breag faoi gach rud”

  • Ooops seems I said it twice. Please delete one Mods.
    Drumlins Rock……youre missing the point. Im doing it to annoy people.

  • The Word

    So Sinn Fein are in government, are they?

  • To be serious people do it for different reasons.
    because they believe it to be a right (proudly I do)
    because they believe we have parity of esteem and need to be assertive to avoid slipping back (proudly I do)
    And to annoy people (shamefully I do but it only annoys people wh are too easily annoyed).

    And like I said, if Dominic Bradley has got this right and seemingly he has…a lot of people will be grateful.

  • Drumlins Rock

    thats your problem FJH, your just too nice to annoy people even when you try!

  • Mr Crumlin

    Maith thu, Doiminic. Tá sé seo lá maith don teanga.

  • fordprefect

    I filled my census form in, in Klingon and said I was a Jedi Knight, where it asked what kind of gaff I lived in, I said I lived in a flat that was orbiting Jupiter. I also said that 3,000 people lived with me, but, only I could see them.

  • Mr Crumlin

    fordprefect – really? Id love that to be true but ….

  • Mark McGregor

    Ford,

    I think you actual make the real point, admittedly by mistake.

    You, Dominic and the Queen’s dog can fill the form in however you like – it won’t fecking register unless you do it English.

    So You can fill in your address, job and description of that job and not have it included.

    The rest is tick box stuff.

  • Barry the Blender

    Fitzjameshorse1745. I’ll have a crack at filling it in in Irish. Is there a gaeilge word for ‘protestant’? You seem to have bizarrely left it off your list…

  • socaire

    Use ‘dissident’, Barry. It’s pretty close.

  • Barry the Blender

    Not sure that would reflect my circumstances well at all. Wolfe Tone seemed to think protestant, catholic and dissenter were three separate entities.

  • BOB

    Bhí leigheas ó gach iomard sa bhraon uisce a d’ólfaí amach as bos láimhe Fhinn Mhic Cumaill.-

    ‘Casadh shaman(sagart an tseanchreidimh)uair orm an tslí.
    Glaotar ‘mudang’ ar an shaman anseo i gCóiré’.

    …bíonn an Mudang gléasta in éide fir…Tá an ceol á sheimint agus tá an Mudang ag rince timpeall an chlóis.Bíonn sí ag glaoch ar an spirid teacht amach as an nduine breoite agus páirt a ghlacadh sa bhéile breá atá ullamh dó i lár an chlóis……tá sí ag léimeadh níos tapúla….
    a súile casta ar a chéile agus ciach ar a guth ó bheith ag réabadh ar dhoras dhoras dúnta na spiride…….thiteann an mudang i laige tar éis a cuid rince….sí sínte ar an dtalamh..
    ….éiríonn sí agus leanan sí ar an nglaoch….

    …….go dtí am éigin i rith na hoíche ,nuair atá an mudang ábalta a rá lé gach éinne go bhfuil an spirid tagtha amach as an nduine breoite….

    Tá an duine a bhí breoite chun éiri suas aon neomat…..

  • Kadfoomsa

    I have have a lot of time of Dominic.

    But Dominic Ó Brolcháin agus Dominic Bradley need to say the same things.

    Ill fill mine out i nGaeilge, mo theanga dúchais.

    They can do with it and with me what they like.

    Is Gael mé. sin sin.

  • Barry there is indeed and for “British subject” even (agus maith thú /good for you for giving it a go).
    I cant imagine the word would annoy many of the people I intend to annoy. The object of the exercise is (in part) to annoy. I will be filling it in as a breagadóír (liar) as an eolas (information) is not tábhactach (important). Its all craic (fun).
    Every ten years we get to annoy each other.
    We get to do the annoying our annoying bit on Sunday.
    Next year the other lot get to annoy our lot by pointing out that theres not nearly as many of us as we had hoped and they had feared.
    Harmless stuff.
    Online translation services will be over-used.

  • Turgon

    fordprefect,
    “I filled my census form in, in Klingon and said I was a Jedi Knight,”

    Klingons do not seem obvious candidates to be Jedis. So maybe what you did was an intergalactic act of ecumenism,

  • juggernaut

    The Irish language being used as a political football again.

    Is it any wonder its popularity is down the toilet.

  • JH

    Is it a political football anytime anyone uses it? Or just when you don’t like it to be used?

    Maybe we should all know it but never ever use it?

  • lamhdearg

    All irish nats fill in their form in gaelic. all those forms go in the bin, census reads as the vast majority of people in Ulster are British and proddy. dom is a bright boy.

  • iluvni

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my Ulster-Scots census booklet. Great crack. Everyone should have a copy.

  • Reader

    Barry the Blender: Wolfe Tone seemed to think protestant, catholic and dissenter were three separate entities.
    Back in the day, Presbyterians were dissenters, not Prods.

  • Barry the Blender

    Presbyterians were dissenters

    I’m not a presbyterian so putting dissenter as my religion would never do.

    But you’re right fitzjameshorse, I basically want to learn a little irish so I can win up the other side but taking it off you (when it comes to us unionists old habits die hard).

  • orly

    More people will probably try to fill it out in french than irish.

    Good luck wasting your time boys.

  • Dewi

    Why on earth isn’t there an Irish language form? Astonishing really.

  • Veritas Vos Liberabit

    The Gaelic language is part of our shared inheritance…those who care to speak or otherwise use the language are entitled to ‘parity of esteem’.
    There is an adage in English ‘Use it or lose it!’…..which has a cognate in the Gaelic ‘Beatha Teanga í a Labhairt’ (‘A language lives through speaking it.’)

    Most official forms (supplied through British Government agencies etc ) are available in English and Welsh. Gaelic speakers have long filled in official forms in Gaelic without any trouble to date that I am aware of. The Census form does not direct one to fill it in in any partiular language and although the Census Office may say that this was intended by the legislation which was enacted ‘on the hill’, it would be difficult for the British authorities to enforce such a requirement given that it could be argued that the form should have been made available in Gaelic in the first place!

    So much for the promise of the British Government that it will “affirm that whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;(http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES (v))

  • Old Mortality

    Dewi
    Well as you can easily discern from this thread, completing the form in Irish is a mere affectation, not a necessity whereas in Wales there are a substantial number of people for whom Welsh is the primary, if not sole, means of communication.
    As for myself, I’d quite like to have a French/Italian/German/Spanish version just to show off my linguistic abilities. Sadly, they only sent me an English one.

  • Cynic2

    The reason there isn’t an Irish Language from is that virtually noone in the North speaks it well enough to fill in the form in Irish.

    I suggest that in about 3 months you send in an FOI request for the number of forms completed in Irish. That should be interesting

    I will wager its far less than 1%

  • Cynic2

    “Not illegal? But binned? ”

    Mark

    What evidence have you for that – aside from your own jaundiced outlook?

    Whoops – jaundice is a pale orange colour – my mistake. Is there an Irish version of ‘jaundiced’? Bilious?

  • ORWELLSPEN

    Everyone who claims they know Irish can speak English. If English was good enough for Jesus then it should be good enough for you

  • JH

    *facepalm*

  • Zachariah Tiffins Foot

    I suspect there will be a few taking crayon in hand to complete the census form in that most popular variant of the Irish language Provo-Irish.

    I happened to be in the company of an Irish speaker from Mayo when a shinner was being interviewed on radio. She told me that, setting regional differences to one side, the guy was speaking gibberish. So good luck with the forms.

    Oh by the way I would also like to see a supplementary question on those forms: have you recently bought a parrot that is less active than you feel it should be?

  • Onde posso arranjar um formulário do censo em Portugues?

  • Munsterview

    Barry : “Is there a gaeilge word for ‘protestant’?…..”

    ‘ Eiriceach’ ?

  • Mick Fealty

    That’s not a common choice amongst Irish speakers… Besides it is closer in meaning to heretic or dissenter than protestant, which is usually rendered as a virtual loan word, Protastunach…

  • JH

    … and perhaps a bit vague? One would surely prefer Eaglais na hÉireann, Preispitéireach or even… Saor Preispitéireach? 🙂

  • OscarTheGrouch

    another *facepalm*

  • lamhdearg

    “The Census form does not direct one to fill it in in any particular language “, the information sheet accompanying it however does say “in English” . The information sheet also states that an “do chabhair i nGaeilge” Irish translation is available. whats the problem.

  • The really odd thing is the question of fluency in English, Gaelic or indeed any language.
    A quick test of my three year old grandson revealed that he does indeed speak both very well.
    “Thomas the Tank Engine”
    and “Pat an fear poist”
    but while the object of the exercise is to have a good laugh at the Census….there is maybe a serious point that the question of fluency in respect of any language should only have been addressed in terms of over fives.
    How exactly d the parents of a new born answer that? And would not the obvious “not at all” answer distort figures.

    My own form is now sent away so I cant open it and check how the issue was actually addressed. Alas the census only applies to two in this house.

  • I can’t speak for the NI census form, but down south the language question is only for those over three years of age.

    How you can accurately ascribe a religion to a three-year-old is another matter entirely…