[UPDATE ]The Northern Ireland supporter deleted the video once they realised it wasn’t solely like minded bigots watching their trip to Dublin – what a surprise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qwP6Ih5Eds
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El Hadji Djouf – What an example, anyone who knows anything about football knows what a scum bag this guy is. The opposition fans have a million and one reasons to hate this guy and his race isnt one of them.
For those who need reminding of Mr Diouf’s ”football” career
In France Diouf’s professional career has at times been overshadowed by controversy. During his time at Sochaux, he was involved in a succession of minor transgressions. This resulted in the move to Rennes, where he was convicted for driving without a licence, and was involved in a car crash. Taking into account his age and evident remorse, the French courts sentenced Diouf to community service.
In England During the start of his early Premier League career, Diouf was involved in several incidents where he spat at fans and opposition players. On 13 March 2003, whilst playing for Liverpool, he was involved in a incident when he spat at Celtic fans during a televised UEFA Cup quarter-final. His club fined him two weeks’ wages, UEFA gave him a two-match ban, and Diouf was charged with assault. Although Diouf initially pled not guilty, he later changed his plea to guilty, and was fined £5,000. Whilst he was on loan at Bolton, Diouf was charged by the police for spitting at an 11-year-old Middlesbrough fan during a 1–1 draw in November 2004. Then, on 27 November 2004, Diouf spat in the face of Portsmouth player Arjan de Zeeuw. He was fined two weeks’ wages by Bolton and was banned for three games by the FA after pleading guilty to a charge of improper conduct. Bolton manager Sam Allardyce later revealed that he considered sending Diouf to see a sports psychologist.
On 20 September 2009, Diouf was questioned by police after allegations that he had made a racial slur to a ball-boy during a match at Everton, telling him to “fuck off, white boy”. Diouf defended his actions by saying Everton fans were racially abusing and throwing bananas at him, but police found no evidence of this.
In April 2010, Diouf was arrested and charged with motoring offences in Manchester.
On 8 January 2011, following Blackburn’s 1-0 win over Queens Park Rangers in the FA Cup third round, QPR manager Neil Warnock accused Diouf of taunting Jamie Mackie whilst the latter lay on the pitch injured with a broken leg and referred to Diouf as “lower than a sewer rat”
Monk De etc
“Heavens – people might think that for decades the majority of their support had a history of booing Catholic players”
You, also, are simply showing up your own prejudice, idiocy, and fantasist nature with comments such as this.
To be honest I would have been surprised had the Northern Ireland fans gone to Dublin and behaved. I wasn’t there but it is clear to me from the clips on You tube that there are more than a few dozen indulging in sectarian chanting and anti-social behavior.
I am not surprised either at the scarcity of northern Ireland fans condemning the chanting. Or at the amount of apologists and deniers here on slugger.
under the headline ”shameful antics”
‘while it is understandable that people want to celebrate, to do so in and antisocial manner is unacceptable and leaves people feeling angry. i have had a number of residents contact my office who were greatly concerned about the behaviour of some fans with many sating that they did not feel able to venture into town. this simply shouldn’t be the case. these so called fans are only undermining the teams success”
local mla regarding lisnaskea gaa last week end but sure at least they are not bigot’s but jolly craic!!
mark re the mask sorry but you must be confusing me with zorro?, proddy bigot’s of my era more inclinded to tartan scarfs
I am not surprised either at the scarcity of northern Ireland fans condemning the chanting. Or at the amount of apologists and deniers here on slugger
I would guess that there is such a “scarcity” as most realise it is a complete waste of time to *engage* with the kind of people on here who are actually happy when there are such outbursts of unacceptable behaviour do happen.
Why chew the cud with people who are less interested in suggesting solutions than simply wallowing in a tit-for-tat sectarian-fest?
So Mr Bridges , you’re one of these middle aged hooligans going through a midlife crisis then . You know there are some very good support groups out there that offer help to lost souls like yourself . Let me see , there’s Dipso’s Anonymous and the PTZBIYL group – that’s put the zest back in your life . Right up your alleyway Mr Bridges ……..
‘with the kind of people on here who are actually happy when there are such outbursts of unacceptable behaviour do happen.’
Speaking for myself, such outbursts can make a refreshing change from the seemingly endless declarations from NI fans, ably supported by a fawning, parochial media, that they’re the best in the world.
‘suggesting solutions ‘
How about removing some of the exclusively Unionist/Loyalist symbols/emblems from Windsor Park (and we’re always being reminded just how representative of the entire communitythe team itself is) and then maybe, just maybe these cretins won’t feel they have free rein to run around shouting about ‘fenian blood’.
The word bigot or sectarian is like a game of snap here.
One person says, “well it was a disgrace”
Another says, thats your prejudice, your sectarianism. Can we not express an opinion whithout someone shouting bigot.
Well no. Its fact and conclusion. Fact: certain elements of the fans made a show of themselves. Conclusion: Based on the nature and reason behind their actions (they wouldn’t do it anywhere but Dublin) – they are bigotted.
Fact: Windsor Park, the anthem, death treats, paramilitary flags, songs sung etc
Conclusion: That there is a majority of NI fans who are bigotted either expressly through their actions or are compliant towards others displaying their sectarianism. Others who they are identified with through their mutual support of the team.
There is nothing bigotted in coming to that conclusion, its entirely logical to do so.
“…such outbursts can make a refreshing change ”
Hopefully that was an attempt at irony: for me personally watching a group of boozed up sectarian scum is not really my idea of a refreshing change from anything… even perceived media hyperbole.
How about removing some of the exclusively Unionist/Loyalist symbols/emblems from Windsor Park (and we’re always being reminded just how representative of the entire communitythe team itself is) and then maybe, just maybe these cretins won’t feel they have free rein to run around shouting about ‘fenian blood’
Yeah, sure; personally (along with many others) I’d rather have a specific NI anthem, there are less Union flags travelling (with exception for Dublin excursions it appears) away with NI and well…what else? But you’re not seriously saying that it’s GSTQ or the Union flag inspiring these cretins to indulge their 1690 flashbacks?
Unlike other away games, I could have got a ticket almost simply by rolling up at the IFA for this one, they’d have sold me another 50 as long as I promised to make everyone behave themselves and be back in bed by midnight.
These games were always going to attract the assorted scum and hangers-on who no longer feel comfortable now to express their warped “culture” at NI matches. That being the case, the IFA should have forgotten about trying to pull in a as much commission as possible from ticket sales and done a proper policing job as they did for Chorzow a couple of years ago. Wouldn’t have changed any of the culprits core sectarianism but then that’s not the job of a football association or club.
O’Neill: “These games were always going to attract the assorted scum and hangers-on who no longer feel comfortable now to express their warped “culture” at NI matches.”
This is almost an apology for the IFA. There is no need to ‘attract’ these sort of people, they rarely miss a game. These are the same people who attend every game at Windsor Park. It wasn’t a case of the local Sandy Row headcases club going, ‘oh, we haven’t been to a Norn Iron game lately, but this ones in Dublin, so away we go’.
Just look at the display of colour and song displayed at every single home game. In fact its worse there. Situated in the Village, which makes Portadown look neutral, the only difference is while at home, the ordinary fan doesn’t have any excuse for trouble, its just a gathering of one big happy unionist party. In Dublin, theres a load of Paddys knocking about, and they all want to acert their Britishness. Same fans, no different.
But, I suppose thats me being prejudice, as opposed to the louts that are the majority of NI fan.
And yes, I have had the misfortune of being at Windsor for a game.
All of this pales into insignificance when we read the glorious result:
Arsenal 2 – 0 Barcelona
Now that’s football!
2-1 and the 1 is an away goal
i don’t post much on slugger as debating the rights and wrongs of northern ireland and irelands politics and history is usually as satisfying as banging your head against a brick wall, i have been highly amused by the nonsense in the majority of
post , most are coming from posters who have a preconceived idea that all norn iron fans are PUL and bigoted.(yawn)
i make no excuses some are and some always will be, but lets face facts five thousand went to dublin, no arrests no garda reports, and yet the big story according to this topic is that a small number sang nasty songs, and we know how dangerous singing can be if its very very loud it could hurt your ears! as for those so quick to label me everything from a window smashing hooligan to masked uvf gunman, laughable doesn’t cover it!! i suggest you look up the meaning of bigot and then look in a mirror.
just to prove my point you where all so upset about nasty dangerous songs and yet (read back and see) 3 times i slipped in a comment about fans bus windows being smashed, did any of you good citizen’s enquire as to where this happened or was anyone hurt? nope and why not ? because if your honest you don’t care , your view we are all proddy scum bigots that deserved it and more. i rest my case .WNBWNI
‘But you’re not seriously saying that it’s GSTQ or the Union flag inspiring these cretins to indulge their 1690 flashbacks?’
It’s all part of the overall picture – the trappings of NI matches are exclusively Unionist/Loyalist so dunderheads like this could be excused for thinking that there’s no-one around who could be directly offended by their behaviour. The bottom line is that so long as the IFA exclusively caters for one side of the community, in terms of the atmosphere and trappings on match night, then all shades of that community are going to be represented on match night and this sort of thing will continue to happen. They may well be a small minority but they’re typically the ones who make the most noise. Alternatively, they ( and Unionist politicians) should openly admit the NI football team isn’t for everybody and leave the rest of us to get on with our allegiances.
Niall,
It may have escaped your attention, but Arsenal have not yet had the opportunity to score an away goal against Barcelona in this competition.
What stands irrefutable is that they have beaten Barcelona in the first leg and not many teams beat Barcelona, certainly not (if you wish me to introduce a real sectarian football jibe) those Falangist fuckers, Real Madrid.
Below a selection from some of Between the Bridges infrequent posts:
Referring to NI born players playing for Rep. of Ireland: “should ”taxpayers” also fund future players for Albania?
Interpretation of criminal damage and sectarianism: “not one of you’s can see now much of an non event this is”
Excusing even those actually involved in trouble: “one you tube clip to get the already offended more offended”
Describing the soldiers song as “bigots singing songs about killing people”
A true gent you are BTB. You are apologising for a group of bigots. Instead, why not say, I support Northern Ireland, I do not agree with what went on in Dublin. I would like to dissociate myself from their actions. I would like to apologise on behalf of NI fans for their actions.
You won’t though, will you, because YOU don’t care, as far as you’re concerned it was irrelevant. Well to quote you “in this day an age” that sort of behaviour is NOT acceptable.
Fair enough Rory Carr, but you did miss the 1.
nail seeing as you posted ” the nationalist gaa is not political’
i understand that the concept of what i have said is beyond your scope i hope that the fact i am typing this very slowly will help.
That is taken out of context to give the impression of bias. There are 3/4 posts were I, you and others discussed the GAA, which everyone is free to read and come to the conclusion that you are indeed, an apologist for bigotry.
To clarify the point re: GAA.
The GAA are not political. It is a family orientated organisation. My point being that because it is almost exclusively nationalist, GAA fans do not feel the need to sing rebel songs at games or fly tricolours.Therefore, non political, merely sport. And of course, if GAA was participated in by Unionists, this may be different. But that is the same of Rugby or Hockey in parallel.
Northern Ireland fans, however, DO feel the need to express and to stress their Britishness, through song, imagry and by attacking those who they view as traditionally opposed to Britian. Even inanimate objects, such as pub windows in Dublin.
Dec,
If what you’re saying is correct, then every home match at Windsor would see the Uber-Prods acting up and if that were the case why do we not hear about it after every game? The News Letter might turn a blind eye, but the rest of the media?
They don’t act up because:
1. It’s harder to get tickets and security is tighter at Windsor.
2. They are outnumbered by those who are offended or who couldn’t give a flying about the kind of shite they were coming out with on the video posted.
The bottom line is no matter what good work FFA does, no matter how the atmosphere has changed home and away at NI matches, no matter how the the majority of us want to support the team and no matter the presence or otherwise of “Unionist” symbols… there will always be an element that have the potential to disgrace us. Attempting to educate them is a waste of time (and downright dangerous on occasions) in which case the next best option is keeping them away as far as possible.
Apologies, Niall, I only now see what you meant, I misposted the result which was, of course 2-1, not 2-0. Clearly all that excitement is not good for me.
nail read your words ‘That is taken out of context to give the impression of bias’ now go back and read your previous post
I remember reading an article before the world cup match at Windsor park in 93 where Billy ( or was it john ) Bingham boasted about throwing stones at the catholics when he was growing up .
And then to see him conducting and inciting the crowd when the North were leading …….disgraceful . The IFA are kidding themselves if they think they have sorted out their very real sectarian problem . The only solutuion is to play every home game behind closed doors .
mark good one sorry no bite here’s the translation man admits to throwing stones as a child shock horror! manager encourages support for his team shock horror! oh and as for the old billy bigot chestnut (which is a terrible slur on a true gent) in a packed and very loud windsor park how did he incite the crowd? was he on the pa? no, had he a huge sign saying sing the sash? no. had he such a loud voice he could be heard over 20k voices? no, the guy waved his arms! what a bigot eh? sorry mark but that arm waving is not some proddy masonic signal! lol!
having been at that game its strange that my memories are so far removed from the urban myth ‘there all the same it must be true marie jones says so even through she wasn’t there either’ two rows in front of of me chatting away all game with very discernable southern accents sat two rep supporters, the braying hate filled loyalist mob that you wish to believe inhabits windsor park managed not to assault or insult these two football fans….more recently the ginger one went to windsor wearing a gaa top and was some what disappointed that the only thing he could report was that not many people spoke to him! ah diddums! fact not fiction my friends its the way forward……
BTB I have no interests in football and whatever people sing or chant is unimportant as words only hurt if you let them, but to describe Windsor Park as welcoming to nationalists, a place where you could bring your kids to watch any NI games is unbelievable, not many football clubs from here make the headlines in British newspapers but Windsor Park seems to attract even the independant.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/question-mark-over-players-future-after-sectarian-abuse-694181.html
“On one occasion in the 1990s a loyalist threw a hand-grenade into part of a ground occupied by supporters of a Catholic club, but it did not explode”.
That you don’t remember Billy John Bingham’s disgraceful antics doesn’t surprise me as you can’t seem to remember last week. My kid’s goldfish has a better memory than you .
mark old chap don’t let it get to you you will some day make a true key board warrior it just helps to actually know something about your chosen subject!
tapcall i do see the point you are trying to make and references to 20 and 10 years ago will enforce your argument with the like minded so well done on that one.
And what’s your specialised subject ? Nazis football 1933 – 39.
Less of the old chap routine , it won’t mask the toerag in you .
And the ginger comment , between the bridges doesn’t seem to have much between the ears .
BTB I live close to Windsor, like I said I’ve no interest in football and I cannot deny there are people trying to change the atmosphere, but sectarianism seems ingrained into the mindset of a sizeable number of NI supporters and not the dozens but hundreds. NI is a British team so people should expect them to carry Union Jacks or chant pro loyalist songs its part and parcel of supporting that team. When it gets a bit more than that though, where people are assulted or intimidated, or seriously injured as has happened at Windsor Park on occasions then theres a problem, maybe the answer is for NI matches to be relocated somewhere else.
tapcall you dragged up articles ten and twenty years old to illustrate your point now you refer to assaults, what assaults where? who/ by? deal in facts and i will willing engage in a proper discussion instead of the informed piss take that others couldn’t deal with.
BTB It wasn’t too long ago that a well know loyalist was returned to prison after being released under the GFA for using a knife at Windsor park to settle some differences with other supporters, Im sure you remember the battles in the stands, granted that was not a NI match but it was at Windsor and it does show the level of security at that ground. While we’re on the subject of Windsor Park do you not think NI games should be relocated, if only to create a level playing field for all clubs in the Irish league, the relationship between Linfield and the IFA regarding upkeep of the ground and whatever other financial arrangements they have with Linfield gives them an unfair advantage over other clubs.
tapcall, now play fair and i will too your (rather neatly may i say) side stepping the subject you yourself raised!
Fair enough BTB I was referring to times past in relation to NI games, times have changed so has attitudes, you cannot control all supporters thats impossible but its up to the stewards to make sure the type of behaviour that gives the NI team supporters a reputation as being sectarian and bigotted.
Sorry that was meant to be up to the stewards to make sure the type of behaviour that gives the NI team supporters a reputation as being sectarian and bigotted is stopped.
tacpall. there have been huge changes just as the have been huge changes in northern Ireland in general, the scenes in that you tube clip have done more to hurt norn iron fans reputation than 15/20 years of improvement ever did to enhance it. the question i would ask is why? could it be so many people just want it to be true? that its uncomfortable to accept that northern Ireland fans have changed have reached out? and let me be very clear here its the fans who have made the effort the fans not ifa they jumped on the band wagon long after the fans. now there is always room for improvement but anyone that thinks by going to windsor park your taking your life in your hands sorry your deluding yourself, anyone that thinks by going to windsor park your going to hear loyalist songs sorry your 20 years to late. what those pished up knob heads done in the aviva was shameful end off, but they really are a small minority and thats the shame of it all so few get so many tarred with the same brush and just as shameful is the so very many who just wet themselves with glee at the chance to get a bit of ‘nordieorangebigot’ bashing
Niall
The penny’s dropped and I’ve realised you’ve got a bit of a screw loose, as your bizarre attempt at logical thinking showed…
“Fact: Windsor Park, the anthem, death treats, paramilitary flags, songs sung etc”
Where to start:
– “Windsor Park” isn’t a “fact”, it’s a venue
– “the anthem” – what’s your point, bearing in mind you’re not simply saying you want it changed (like oneill, I’d like a NI specific anthem), but trying to make some point about sectarianism
– “death treats” – assuming you mean “death threats”, I’m wondering how one person making a phone call about Neil Lennon turns into a “majority”
– “paramilitary flags” – which you don’t see at NI matches
– “songs sung” – you’re going to have to be a bit more specific here, given your talk of a “majority” and reality of the songs that are actually sung in the stands at matches.
“Conclusion: That there is a majority of NI fans who are bigotted either expressly through their actions or are compliant towards others displaying their sectarianism.”
Only in your apparently rather addled brain would that conclusion make any sense, since you haven’t managed to come up with a shred of evidence to back up your wildly prejudiced hypothesis.
Dec
“Speaking for myself, such outbursts can make a refreshing change ”
Ah yes, the decent majority of NI fans going along to support their team, in their green and white, singing football songs, they make you rather uncomfortable, do they, Dec? You’re far more comfortable looking at a small scumbag minority, so that you can relax back into your comfortable worldview happy that themmuns are all horrible bigots after all, eh? *rolls eyes*
“How about removing some of the exclusively Unionist/Loyalist symbols/emblems from Windsor Park ”
“It’s all part of the overall picture – the trappings of NI matches are exclusively Unionist/Loyalist ”
So, can you actually not see the kit of Irish emerald green, and the badge of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks, do you prefer to blot them out of your mind because they don’t fit your comfortable worldview (see above), or do the teams colours and the badge conveniently not count as “symbols/emblems” in your odd definition?
When you have a bunch of middle aged drunken louts trespassing on your property while pissing all over your garden gnomes and the family pet in the middle of the afternoon as the kids arrive home from school , it doesn’t really matter what symbols are on the team kit , does it Mike ?
“up to our knees in FENIAN blood” where the fenian brotherhood a purely catholic organization, if so surely they where sectarian, and it’s quid pro quo, if not, then this song the “billy boys” is not a sectarian song. as for u.t.v / b.b.c. news, is there any other country that can have one channel running a Headline news story that is not even a story on the other channel, both b.b.c and u.t.v do this, i find it strange, i was in dublin for the game,Garda where great, local’s where great, scots where great, crack was great, roll on may 27, ps i dont sign the billy boys and i dont think anyone else should either, the wars over. Goodnight.
As I said before Northern sports fans watching darts in the Citywest hotel , following the hurricane down in Goffs , various GAA football teams in croke park , the dogs in shelbourne park , the horses at leopardstown and fairyhouse and the rugby fans who grace lansdowne each time they come down to follow Ulster or Ireland or the lads on the lash for weekend. All these fans and never any trouble except when NI football team arrive in town. There’s no denying it .
“never any trouble” really?,thats quite a claim, i was there and i seen no trouble other than the drunkeness i have seen at many a rock/pop concert.
The great Dennis Law in a television interview my football mad family refused to miss.
Liverpool were the opposition. Dennis Law was in full flow with the goal in front of him when the entire Kop yelled “Dennis Laws a fairy” Law said he looked up was completely put off and missed an open goal.
I’m not sure at this distance but I think Busby was the Manager of Man United and Shankly was, as I’m sure you all know, the manager of Liverpool.
Don’t tell me that football supporters will not stoop to any level to ‘support’ their team. As for pissing it up the oppositions wall: you don’t say.
Pippakin ,
What are you talking about ” pissing it up the oppositions wall ? Have you read the thread ? I imagine not…
Hello pip, long time
stoop to any level, maybe, i like to think of myself as a friend of the scottish, yet i found myself singing (along with lots of others) William Wallace paedophile na na na na na na, on a loop when scotland went 3-0 up, allow i did have a red face, shame on me.
So pippakin you would have no problem if a group of drunken fans came into your garden and pissed on all your precious cats .
Mark
What am I talking about? Half wit, I am trying to change the subject! and as that would indicate to anyone who wasn’t a brain dead shinner means I have indeed read the damn thread.
Lamhdearg
Always a pleasure. William Wallace? and you got home in one piece….Admit it you were humming.
pip
the scots where away up the other end of the ground.off to bed catch you later.
Pippakin – dont tell me that football suppoters would not stoop to any level to support their team . As for pissing it up the oppositions wall , you dont say.
That was you giving you’re your silly 2 bit to a topic you no nothing about .
A halfwit is someone who changes their opinion like they change their catfood ……….
Mark
“When you have a bunch of middle aged drunken louts trespassing on your property while pissing all over your garden gnomes and the family pet in the middle of the afternoon as the kids arrive home from school , it doesn’t really matter what symbols are on the team kit , does it Mike ?”
I wouldn’t have thought so, no.
cat standing by while bigots pissed over the kids gnome? why did this not make the herald?
Mark
I am so sorry! If you hadn’t raised the subject previously I would not have known that you have a wife, which leads me to wonder how you can possibly know about any personal relationship I might have. You appear to have been following me quite assiduously and drawing the wrong conclusions I might add.
I think if I understand the rules correctly the card thing is something to do with the time between offences. I don;t believe any one person is any better than another and nor am I impressed by pseudo outraged dignity. As for lady I prefer woman, but not to worry nothing you call me will make any impression.
I thought you might like that one btb . Mabye check the Sunday World at the weekend for an exclusive .
sorry old chap no can do 3rd sunday in the month is cross burning with the klan..
Well since we are on the subject and if you don’t mind me asking , Is there a Mister pippakin ?
What weekend is the human sacrifice on ?
Mark
Better but too late. Your previous comment was unacceptable, by any standard.
Is there a Mister Pippakin is what i asked .
The human sacrifice was a joke with between the bridges .
I dont think asking you if you are marrried is unacceptable in the context of the last few posts , do you ?
comedy gold the biggest wimp out since kermit refused to mud wrestle fozzy for mrs piggy!
BTB sorry about the non response re the other topic, was on the town tonight, well swallied, headache tomorrow.
The Ulster 11 will always have a few low class sectarian hangers on but you can’t judge the whole fanbase on that. The majority of NI fans didn’t cause trouble and shouldn’t be all tarnished by dozens of low class thugs. Singing “Rule Britannia” in Dublin though when they aren’t even from Britain and were playing a Scottish team (who are from Britain but would never sing such sh1t) is just weird to see in 2011.
Northern Unionists are the only people out of NI, Scotland and Wales to mimic the English football fans with their Rule Britannia/German bomber songs and it’s just sad in 2011 to see Ulstermen acting like they’re English. Even the anthem and the St Georges flag with the Ulster banner are overtly English symbols.
Seeing the Scots boo GSTQ yet again says it all. Scots are British after all, but they don’t like N.Irish Unionists’ England mimicking either.
connaught,
British isles, check the atlas.
as for the german bomber song, they did bomb belfast aswell not just england, now who else did that, why yes the irish state sponsored i.r.a., yet when a small % of people who went to dublin sing songs about their dislike for their would be killers, they are the scum of the earth, as i posted before these songs have no place today, but u.t.v. and all the poor hurt types, are hypeing this up and do none of us (who want it to stop)any favours.
Lamhdearg,
The Germans bombed Scotland and Wales too but their supporters don’t mimick the English by singing that sVit.
NI fans were welcomed in Dublin but if they sing songs everyone knows are a way of putting two fingers up to the hosts it’s a sad reflection on their integrity. If you’re shown respect you should respond in kind.
R.O.C its worse than that lots of supporters of the ulstermen 11 actually follow teams in the dreaded english premier league!
liverpool, man utd, cheski etc…. do many supporters of connaughtmen 11 do the same?
tapcall, head like a busted sofa?lol
To Mike the First, who thinks I have a screw loose for concluding that the majority of NI fans are bigoted. I summarised a previous comment about Windsor, the anthem, death threats, paramilitary flags, songs sung etc. But to save you, MTF, the effort of going back a few pages, here’s the gist:
Windsor Park; located in the Village, One of the most stanchly Loyalist areas of the City. This is the same area, that was so bigoted, it had its own extra special paramilitary force in the 70’s; the Village Assassination Squad. Controlled, rather uniquely in Belfast, jointly by the UDA and UVF. And they’re not just sectarian but racist too, as evidenced by the 2004 attacks on African, Asian and Chinese residents. They even have a policy on murals, alternating gable walls between the two, so, on your walk down Tates Avenue, you get the pleasure of seeing a mural for the UVF, South Belfast, 2nd Battalion, B Command and one for the UDA. Every second house has a union jack, paramilitary or Orange Order flag flying. And this is welcoming to Nationalists? No, clearly not. Are UDA/UVF, and Orange Order insignia sectarian? Of course they are. Yet, Windsor is a welcoming family friendly environment all the same? Think not MTF.
Now, when the IFA approved the Maze site for a potential relocation, what was the ORDINARY fans response? 85% opposed the move away from Windsor (match day poll by Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters’ Clubs). So, 85% wanted to stay at an exclusively Loyalist location. And I’m sure you might say, no, some wanted to move to Ormeau Park; which would be located across the Ormeau Bridge in another stanchly Unionist area? Is it not, therefore, logical to suggest, one reason behind this may be their sectarianism? Yet they receive the 2006 UEFA European Football Supporters Award? What for?
Death threats: Not just Lennon while playing, they’re still at it, seems any local player who dares play for Celtic deserves to receive death threats. And how many of the 40 Rangers fans in Coleraine who kicked to death Kevin McDaid in 2009 are also Northern Ireland fans? Lets be honest, they all support good old neutral Northern Ireland. So are they the extreme of this small minority of trouble makers? Or are they the sum total of this alleged minority? 40 men who are willing to murder someone because they are Catholic, yet in defense of fans behavior we hear that it was only 20 or so troublemakers in Dublin. Rubbish. If 40 are willing to kill, there are more than 20 who are willing to cause criminal damage and chant sectarian abuse.
Songs/Chants: How about singing “We’ve got a Provo in our team” every time Neil Lennon touched the ball. Out of 12,000 people, how many have to sing it for it to be clearly audible on TV. What was Sammy McIlroy’s response; “It’s part and parcel of the game.” It is when it’s Northern Ireland. And this less than 5 years before that UEFA award joke.
Flags and anthem: hardly endearing to nationalists. And no, its not a minority that drape themselves in union jacks. Windsor is awash with UDA/UVF and Orange Order flags. Does anyone say, ‘excuse me that’s not on’, of course not. There is a reason why the Belfast Giants are neutral, its because recognized symbols and insignia of either Unionism or Nationalism are banned from the Odyssey. Why have they yet to be banned from Windsor?
Is it not entirely reasonable to come to the conclusion that many NI fans are bigots, and that the rest just don’t care that sectarianism is allowed to flourish at NI games?
ROC while any right minded individual would of course share your righteous indignation at these ‘not from Britain fans’
aping the English fans, of course there would be a certain amount or irony if you yourself ‘not from Britain fan’ happened to support a English team? and i am sure the fact that the tool you use to express this indignation is the English language in no way undermines your statement
nail, is see where you coming from and i do see the point your struggling to make so lets for the sake of informed debate agree with your intelligent and well thought out argument. so what would be the flip side of your stunning logic? hmmmmmm lets see if a ‘so called’ minority can be justifiably deemed to project the overall majority of their community therefore….
a) you and all other members of CNR community must be all active members in the ‘i cannot belive that its not really the real ira ira’
b) you and all other members of CNR must all actively support the ‘i cannot belive that its not really the real ira ira’
c)you and all other members of CNR do not do enough to actively show the ‘i cannot belive that its not really the real ira ira’ that you do not support their murder campaign.
not as i do not subscribe to your school of logic i will dismiss ‘a’ and ‘b’ as bigoted nonsense i wonder how far of the mark is ‘c’
answers on a postcard please
BTB, as always, pathetic. Rather than address the issues raised you revert to mud slinging. We have Sinn Fein and SDLP members of the Policing Board and both parties encouraging co-operation with the PSNI on all efforts to suppress a small group of hate filled country bumpkins who didn’t get them memo on peace. So does support for these parties not demonstrate a concerted will of the Nationalist community to neither harbour, tolerate or condone a few backward morons who want to play at being soldiers? Does that have any bearing whatsoever on Northern Ireland fans being engaged in sectarianism? No, so why bring it up.
So back to the point of this discussion. You still have not taken the opportunity to express regret at what happened in Dublin or to distance yourself from the actions of those who caused trouble. Nor have you or any other of your fellow apologists decided to address the related concerns raised on this topic of broader sectarianism surrounding the teams support or how unwelcoming it is for anyone other than Unionists/Loyalists.
Its not at all surprising though. This ‘apologising’ began before the game.
Gary McAllister, spokesman for the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs said before the match, “if there is any trouble… it may not necessarily come from Northern Ireland fans”. A pre-emptive missive apologising for the fans unacceptable behaviour.
nail, moi mud slinging? and your ‘debating’ i suppose! lol, as for not distancing myself, dear chap i at least read your post’s so do try and return the favor! so lets deal in some of your debating ‘facts’ do your best and see if you can find a photo of and i quote yourself’ orange,uda, uvf flags’ at a northern ireland game in the last 30 years and i will forward 20 pound sterling to any charity of your choosing.. to clarify an orange flag is what it say on the tin orange colour with a purple star, an uda flag is pale blue with a crest and an uvf is somewhat harder to describe because there are so many different ones from 1912 to present but the letters uvf should give them away, do lets us know how you get on oh and hows the protest letter to the ‘ i cant belive its not the real ira ira’ coming do you need any pointers?
Between the Bridges,
Club football and international football are two different animals. Big European clubs have supporters all around the world. Nationality doesn’t come into it when supporting a club. Old Trafford, Anfield, Camp Nou are full of people of all nationalities. I like Barcelona but it doesn’t mean I mimic Spanish fans.
International teams are only supported by the people from those countries (or Province as the BBC call NI). Northern Ireland fans aren’t English. So copying the songs of the fans of the England team is plain sad considering British teams like Scotland and Wales have never done it. Surely seeing SCOTLAND fans twice boo GSTQ shows NI fans they need to ease up on the England mimicking and find their own Ulster songs and anthem.
‘do your best and see if you can find a photo of and i quote yourself’ orange,uda, uvf flags’ at a northern ireland game in the last 30 years and i will forward 20 pound sterling to any charity of your choosing.. to clarify an orange flag is what it say on the tin orange colour with a purple star’
ni fans had an orange order flag on display at last week’s game in Dublin
http://www.presseye.com/photolibrary/image_display.asp?cid=8807&im=221080
Over to you between the bridges ……your shot .
find me a uvf flag at winsor in the last 10 years and i will eat my wifes cooking. Mark you seem to be a irish nationalist(correct me if i am wrong) a question to you. why would an irish nationlist support northern ireland football team what ever changes where made to the ground ect, when they do not support the right of northern ireland to excist.
ah mark got your hangers back after that lady handed them to you? any flag at windsor as per my and nail’s bet? obviously i can not speak for the dublin OO but if they wished to display thier flag in the aviva that’s up to them….
Mr B .
Some of my comments in relation to that lady and my hangers are awaiting moderation so its best to just park that offside .
Nice save re the Aviva/Windsor park but you have to ask yourself if the flag was displayed in Dublin chances are it was displayed at Windsor but your money is safe for the moment .
If you do get stung and have to pay up may I suggest the Dublin branch of the samaritans as a charity as I believe they have been inundated with calls fron distressed gadren gmones .
Lamhdearg ,
That question is a little loaded . I do remember celebrating when Gerry Armstrong scored against Spain in 82 and I remember admiring Pat Jennings for his display against Brazil in 86 . But things seemed to change after the world cup matches . Politics and sport ??
ROC so what English team do you support? as for not mimicking Spanish fans….ole ole ole…..
mark i thank you i thought it was rather a nice side step myself!! but to be honest (you really should try it sometime) i was surprised to say the least in all my years man and boy i have never seen any orange, uda or uvf flags at Windsor or away games, till now! ( havent checked for it being photoshoped yet) i stand by all i have posted, to tar all with the actions of a few is pathetic and shows you and others to be as bigoted as those in the clip. or is it ok for me to assume that you and all your irk are in the ira? have to go now drumming club calls and a nice big lambeg fresh off the press needs beatin! oh its name by the way and i kid you not is ‘cock of the north’.
big pat my all time fav n.i. player, i shook hands with gerry last week in dublin, and said thank you to him, but wait both of them are catholic, where’s them bullets and stamps
In my experience a lot of non-unionists aren’t wild about supporting NI as a matter of principle but could up with it, even take some form of interest in it and go see it, but for two things.
(i) where the stadium is; and
(ii) the sort of people they seem happy to allow into it.
It seems to me that the NI football suits can have it one of two ways – either embrace it as exclusively ‘our thing’ only and have done with it, or take determined action to dump the bigots. This pretending that they’re inclusive but are content to tolerate sash-chanting sauce-heads; or the tut-tutting eye-rolling “there’s no problem so no need to do anything so ‘get over it, taigs'” won’t really do. Up to the existing supporters though ultimately – if these are layabout vagabond supporters you’re genuinely ashamed of then isolate and jettison them and claim your turf. If the IFA is worried about even fewer people coming to pay to watch their team if they take a principled stance on this then they could at least be straight about it. Enough already with the tokenism on anti-sectarianism though.
nunoftheabove
“where the stadium is”
you can reach windsor without going through the village, via the lisburn road, a mixed area, try it you might like it.
lamhdearg
Horrible stadium, outside and in. I may well be old fashioned when it comes to my own safety. Having to body-swerve one obvious route for getting there to have to take another on the grounds of one’s personal security – that’s never a good sign in a football stadium, leastways when it’s your ‘home’ ground.
BTB,
At the Orange Order tercentenary commemorations held at Windsor Park there may or may not have been a few Orange Order Flags. No picture but is one really needed.
Should I nominate that charity for you?
Niall
Your latest post shows that I was a bit off the mark when I said you have a screw loose – actually its seems you’re missing the equivalent of an entire hardware shop.
Just look at your bizarre attempts to back up your ludicrous and offensive claim that the majority of NI fans are bigots.
– The majority of NI fans are bigots because…most NI fans were against playing in a 42k seater stadium at the Maze. Myself, I thought the size wasn’t suitable and was skeptical on the out of city location. What a horrible bigot I must be.
– The majority of NI fans are bigots because…one scumbag called in a death threat against Neil Lennon. And because you’ve decided without any form of logical reasoning that the killers of Kevin McDaid were NI fans. Anyone could play at that sick game – wonder what football clubs and international teams dissident republican terrorists and their rioting acolytes might support? Wonder what other sporting organisations they might be sympathetic to? What do you reckon?
– The majority of NI fans are bigots because…150-200 scumbags in a crowd of thousands abused Neil Lennon in a game, a decade ago. Then he received nothing but cheers in the very next home game.
– The majority of NI fans are bigots because…”flags and anthem”?? You trot out some nonsense in that paragraph in particular.: “Windsor is awash with UDA/UVF and Orange Order flags” is a sick fantasy from your clearly disturbed mind. There are no “UDA/UVF flags” whatsoever. I remember one idiot turning up for a game a couple of years ago with an Orange flag but I’m not sure how that made a majority of the other 14,000 or so people bigots. As for . “And no, its not a minority that drape themselves in union jacks” – well actually, it is, in reality rather than in your warped fantasy world. And while I’d prefer people didn’t bring Union Flags to games, it doesn’t actually make them a bigot.
Have you ever complained about people bringing Republic of Ireland flags to Ireland rugby games? Ever called them bigots?
I see from your avatar that you’re a supporter of Armagh GAA – care to say a word about your opinion of flags and anthems used in Gaelic games? Perhaps even a wee comment on what you’ve said and done regarding said emblems used by authorities at Armagh county games? Would hate for you to come across as a hypocrite…
Back to the real world. Many of us, myself included, did take a stand against sectarianism over a period of years, which contributed towards the positive changes that have taken place over the last 10 years. I won’t see them and the decent vast majority of NI fans branded as bigots by some sick fantasist spewing out his prejudiced bile on an internet forum, no matter how deranged he comes across.
Congratulations all concerned, 184 comments and counting.
So, c’mon, put your heart into it and let’s see if you can get Mark McGregor the 500 this thread richly deserves.
Meanwhile, back in the real world:
http://tinyurl.com/6yzohtp
“The Irish FA will hand out a life ban to a Northern Ireland fan who sang sectarian songs at last week’s Nations Cup game against Scotland in Dublin.
The IFA has the name of the person involved and they will be punished if their identity is confirmed.
It follows complaints about sectarian behaviour during the game at the Aviva Stadium, which Scotland won 3-0.
The IFA has appealed for information on the identity of all those who sang sectarian songs at the match.
The Irish Football Association has been working with the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs and other relevant bodies to investigate the complaints.
The governing body will place a life-time ban on the named person, if they are identified, from receiving tickets to all Northern Ireland home and away games”
But sure who cares abou that… having seen the interest generated here with sectarian tossers in Dublin expressing their *culture* on youtube and wishing to progress further up the Slugger blogging hierarchy, I’ll be repeating the treat on Sunday.
After the Old Firm game, I’ll put up something incendiary , something along the lines of:
“Themmuns are bigots, so they are, look at this”
A video featuring some intelllectually-challenged clowns singing about FTPing or FTQing will then loaded up.
You will be given one of two options to reply:
“Ah well, yes, of course, speaking as a supporter of a team which has no problems whatsover with people of the (well, you know) *other sort*, I can only condemn the actions of the fenian/hun bigotted scum on show here.”
or…
“No we’re not sectarian bigots, whatabout the time the fenian/hun scum…”
Think my post might be hitting that 500 comment mark round about Monday noon.
And I too will then have become a star blogger on N.Ireland’s “leading political blog”. Cool.
O Neill ,
This is the real world and I’m glad this debate took place ( now I can send my kid back to school ) because up until 24 hours ago , I thought most NI football fans were sectarian wan?ers but after reading posts from Mike the First and Lamhdearg and to a lesser degree between the bridges , I now understand that it is just a minority and I say that with a straight face . What is the record for the number of posts anyway .
The IFA however are a different kettle of fish !
mark if you can get rid of the top men in the i.f.a., you can be my guest of honour in the kop at windsor, in think most true n.i. fans would love you for it.
Mark,
The video being posted has probably done us a favour in the long-term- the IFA has had (or been kicked into having) a wake-up call and will be a lot more careful about the ROI ticketing arrangements than it might otherwise have been.
Re the record number of posts, dunno, does it matter?
Lamhdearg,
When you say get rid , you don’t mean Luca Brasi sleeps with fishes get rid ? Could they not be framed ? anyway Lamhdearg I hop you get your wishes .
oneill
tickets for the carling nations cup can be bought online @ticketmaster, the i.f.a. have little say who will be in dublin.
Oneill ,
” does it matter ” – not to me , not at all , you don’t have a sarcasm gene then . It seened to me that it matters to you that Mark Mcgregor might reach 500 posts .
One more thing , I post here because I find there’s a wide mix of eclectic views whose intellect is of a high standard . It has nothing to do with being cool . The last time I was considered cool was at my debs in the 80’s .
ONeill ,
I may have been a little harsh with my last post and if so I’m sorry OK .
Some real pish in this thread.
Watch any Ireland rugby game. Tricolours galore and the Soldiers song belted out. Still see plenty of Ulster players standing stoically for the anthem looking a bit out of place. Dunno if anyone else is the same but my Dad and I always have a chuckle watching it on the TV when you see them walking down the line of players with the camera. Not hard to “spot the prod”.
I still support Ireland though as it represents “us” as well as “them”. If there was an “Ireland” footy team it would likely be the same story.
If I was in the team I’d be the same. It’s not my anthem but I’d have to just “grin” and bear it.
But lets not get all sympathetic for Lennon. He’s a raging little bigot himself. The most virulent kind around. No victim status for him please.
orly
Chapter and verse on Lennon’s raging little bigotry please. If you have nothing, withdraw the remark.
Orly,
The Irish anthem is only played in Dublin, not anywhere else. And there’s more Catholic players in the NI football team who have to grin and bear GSTQ HOME and AWAY than there are Protestants in the Ireland rugby team yet clearly you’re so bothered by what they think because you failed to mention it.
PersonallyI think there should be a neutral anthem for any all-Ireland sports teams. I don’t agree with The Irish anthem in Dublin for the rugby and would like to see it changed. Pity NI fans couldn’t show the same respect to Catholic players in their team and get a new anthem to respect all.
Personally, I’d be very much in changing the NI anthem. Perhaps keep the NI flag and change the anthem? At least as a first step.
With regards rugby, I would agree with Connacht and suggest that the Irish anthem should be scrapped. It would certainly make the set-up more inclusive for us prods.
Lamhdearg
“tickets for the carling nations cup can be bought online @ticketmaster, the i.f.a. have little say who will be in dublin”
Yes, they were/are (including, unbelievably for the ROI v NI game). But the vast majority travelling will have got theirs from the IFA. Also, while you can get ripped off buying a ticket from Ticketmaster for almost any game in London you cannot get one for, say, a Millwall v West Ham game without first jumping through hoops backwards.
The IFA (or FAI) should have used a bit of commonsense and be a bit more discriminating with ticket distribution.
“I may have been a little harsh with my last post and if so I’m sorry OK ”
Mark, not at all, nothing to apologise for, I’m big and ugly enough to take it. But you’re right, I struggle with sarcasm…
Comment number 200!!! Congratulations Mark;)