Well done lads. You deserve a medal.

screen grab from Ann Cooper twitter account

Former TUV* candidate for Iris Robinson’s (hastily vacated) Castlereagh Borough Council seat, Ann Cooper, yesterday posted on her Twitter account her support for the sacked HM Customs and Revenue workers who used their position to ensure that ethnic minorities claiming benefits were underpaid.

I was reluctant to give this ignorant bigotry and racism any sort of publicity but i think considering that the sacked workers were based in Dorchester house here in Belfast it only seems fair to do so.

*Gathering only 600 votes in her attempt for a seat on Castlereagh Borough Council she is no longer a member of the TUV.

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  • percy

    what is shocking for the rest of us in Britain is normal apparently for sections of the unioinist community.

    so I ask, in what sense does Ann Cooper think she’s British.
    Ann?

  • edgeoftheunion

    Percy

    Where did you get that avatar? It looks like a Martyn Turner.

    I am a bit surprised that the TUV have not told Ms Cooper to cease and desist using her current domain name.

    http://www.anncoopertuv.co.uk/index.html

  • What from photos to politics – try listening to her interview on Radio Ulster.

  • Percy

    Good point, however as the current UK government is to reduce ‘all’ welfare payment’s, I would pose the same question to those who voted for the Tory and Li-Dems at the last election. I fear attacking those least able to defend themselves, has sadly has become a far to common British characteristic.

  • Sectarianism and racism are a bug bear of mine so why shouldn’t i blog about this John?
    I heard her interview and i still think she’s a racist.
    Can you tell me what exactly those fellas did to deserve a medal John?

  • Michael

    Ann Cooper is Ann Cooper, her reaction is not suprising given what she writes on her blog, and how Mr Vance described her to his posters on ATW when announcing her candidancy.

    I hope the police investigation results in the names of these guys being made public. Guys in subsidised employment deciding that children are not entitled to something as basic as child benefit just because of their skin colour is just fucking sick.
    Pardon my language.

  • percy

    tell me about it Mick
    I can find £50 billion off the top of my head
    £9 – NI subvention
    £6 – Trident
    £35 – cost of criminalising drugs

    no need to hit the least well off…

  • Michael

    I listened to it. She made some of the ‘taxi drivers’ who ring into Nolan sound coherant. Her support for guys breaking the law was justified by ‘themmuns coming over here and taking our jobs and houses’.

    There will always be a market for this sorta hate-mongering, we can just hope and work towards making the market as small as possible.

  • percy

    edege,

    I got it from BBC Heart n Minds
    Thanks for the Turner tip

  • pippakin

    I agree rascism is a disgrace and should be stopped wherever it is found, but not all people who are worried about immigration, especially illegal immigration, are rascist.

    The debate needs to be open and careful, not stifled by shouts of rascism.

    I have some sympathy for Ms Cooper, not for her views, but for her right to voice her views.

  • jtwo

    JJ, I’m intrigued…did you notice any thing of merit or even coherence in that interview?

  • Why didn’t you post a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11024077 let everyone listen

    What they did was wrong period – but i believe paying for someones kids living in another country is wrong when OAPs are going to have their heating payments cut – why can’t we have a discussion around those issues !!

    Oh thats right if you mention immigrants your a bigot right away !!

  • jon the raver

    I agree with the sentiments about problems with immigration – there needs to be a growen up debate around the issue.

    There are too many scared to voice a legitimate arguement and far too many to lable the debate as racist.

    Ms Cooper’s comment will only help to further bury this much needed issue – what a plank she is

    Also Wendy Austin must be brought to book her – she managed to get the woman on talk back and give her a very easy ride!

    The woman (Cooper) sympathised with people who were sacked for their racist views – ‘sorry you got caught’
    Poor Wendy was well out of her depth – you could tell she just wanted to pass over to Hugo – very poor
    Don’t think Dunseith would have given the woman such an easy ride and now she has done that she can hide until it blows over

    sorry for the rant

  • Neil

    Absolutely, she’s entitled to voice her opinons, if not particularly eloquently. She should cease the pretence and go on a BNP ticket next time. Bearing in mind she sashayed onto this site and copied and pasted an Enoch Powell speech as a representation of her views, it’s clear what her main bugbear is.

  • Neil

    Don’t reckon she’s the hiding type. I’d bet pennys to pounds she’ll be browsing this site at some point today.

  • Michael

    “h thats right if you mention immigrants your a bigot right away !!”

    Nahh, some folks are bigots before they mention immigrants. It’s not hard to spot them.

  • Fearglic

    There is an innate atmosphere of racism and “themthere-ism” within the Civil Service. Also a great smugness among Irish nationalists within the Civil Service who love paying immigrants money from what they consider a foreign country. I think all racism should be addressed at every level from the silly joke to the blatant treatment of benefit customers. And that all racists should be kicked out if the Civil Service.

  • Yes i did – lets have a discussion or debate around these issues.

    If people are of the thought that immigrants are getting to the top of the queue for housing/ hospitals/ schools lets discuss it let the government produce facts to see if these rumours are true.

    Lets debate whether or have a referendum on the EU !!

    Oh thats right if we were to do that we’d all be bigots !!

  • jon the raver

    It is important to remember that 99.9 per cent of all immigrants actually boost our economy !!!
    Many of them work in some of the most underpaid jobs that ‘native’ scroungers refuse to do !

    It is the 0.1 per sent of immigrants are no good and scrounge from the state – unfortunatley they get the most publicity.
    What needs to happen is those claiming benefits who were born here – need to be fully investigated and actually given jobs.

    Did you know that unemployed mothers get FREE places in nursery schools and are bumped up waiting lists over full time employed people.

    A friend of mine works every hour god sends to pay for a £600 a month nursery when he and the wife are at work !
    All the while unemployed mothers get it for nothing – so thay can watch TV all day and do nothing – this is the inequality that needs tackled to – immigrants are the easy argument !

  • Alan Maskey

    So were the French right to deport a whole pack of Roma gypsies or are they, as the Romanians contend, racists? Is anyone here prepared to house and feed them? We won’t discuss washing.
    I feel sorry for the poor English when the drunken Irish descended on places like Cricklewood, Camden and Kilburn, all of which are becoming hard line Muslim. It makes me wonder how all these people who cannot speak English manage to get council housing etc. I don’t see China, Japan or other success stories letting their countries be flooded with immigrants or refugees.
    Flying through Helsinki airport is such a change from Dublin or Belfast. All blondes. I asked one of them how copme they had not immigrants doing it. Language: you must speak Finnish.

    Now I hear Nigerian scammers are getting jobs sorting the Royal Mail.

    Pesonally, I think imigration can be good if it means you can get your car washed for 50 p or your turnips thinned for a fiver.
    It also helps to undermine the trade union movement and communities so it obviously has its supporters. Rackrenters, any thought?

    Any thoughts of your own that is, not just the usaul cliches.

  • joeCanuck

    Did you know that unemployed mothers get FREE places in nursery schools and are bumped up waiting lists over full time employed people.

    Straight bigotry against unemployed mothers (would those mothers just happen to be n*****s in your nightmares, btw). Wouldn’t cross your mind that the reason is to free them up to actively seek employment. Get a life and stop looking for motes in your neighbours eyes.

  • joeCanuck

    Any thoughts of your own ..

    Yes, you’re giving a knee-jerk bigoted response without considering the whole issue. I don’t support would be economic “refugees” jumping the queue eithet but am not willing to despise them for trying to get a better life. F**k the idea of nation states.

  • dmcoop

    Ann posted on Slugger a few months ago, then left very quickly after some intense debate.

    Percy your first comment is insulting and shows the same intolerance that Ann does. I bet some nationalists are racist. Therefore would you agree that racism is normal for some sections of the nationalist community?

  • joeCanuck

    Those people who are angry at the immigrants or unemployed mothers are directing their anger inappropriately. These people are simply using the rules as promulgated by national or Local Governments. Get angry at your representatives and vote them out next election if you have the numbers. Oh, stupid me, I momentarily forgot that, in N.I. you cannot vote for the candidate that you like; you have to vote for your co-religionist idiot.

  • Alias

    As Milton Friedman pointed out, uncontrolled immigration is incompatible with the welfare state, but it’s amusing to hear ill-informed lefties proffer thier support for a concept that would mean the end of the welfare state.

  • Alias

    “If people are of the thought that immigrants are getting to the top of the queue for housing/ hospitals/ schools lets discuss it let the government produce facts to see if these rumours are true.”

    While it would indeed be helpful to know what the costs of immigration are compared to the benefits of it (not much, I surmise, when immigrants have taken 80% of all new jobs created in the UK in the last 13 years), it is also illegal under EU law to breakdown statistics into national groups. That way the EU prevents the citizens of its member states knowing how much of their taxes goes in welfare to those foreign nationals who were granted the right to live in their state under EU law and what percentage goes in education, health care, etc, or how crime is committed by them.

  • Alias

    Typo: “…or how much crime is committed by them.”

    One other point, you no longer have the sovereignty to decide immigration policy so even if you decided that immigration under EU law was not in your national interest you could not as a nation alter the policy of the EU. Aa that immigration policy is now post-democratic, all democratic debate such as you propose is redundant.

  • It is not just about nationality and benefits, when an illegal immigrant gets in to a country, he is obviously not known to the authorities, he is under the radar, and he could be any kind of fanatical nutter! Do we not have enough of our own home grown nutters?

    In addition, and as much as some may dislike it, no one who has not contributed should be ‘entitled’ to the same benefits as those who have contributed for years. It is the perception that immigrants jump the queue that causes a lot of the problems.

    The level of immigration in recent years has taken many people by surprise. It really is a subject that needs open debate and rules that everyone can see.

  • joeCanuck

    One other point, you no longer have the sovereignty to decide immigration policy

    Absolutely not true. Most of the member countries before the recent large expansion have placed limits on the numbers of immigrants they will accept from the 15(?) new member states. There is wiggle room in the policy.

  • Alias

    Absolutely ignorant, and proves my point about ill-informed lefties. Some were granted transitional control over what should have been their national policy but the UK adopted an open door policy in order to create an under-class of labour voters. All transitional control expires in 2012, and after that date no member state has any right whatsoever to control immigration policy within the EU. So when Turkey joins, for example, you can look forward to extra 80 million folks who will have the unrestricted right to live and work in the UK and folks in the UK will not have any control whatsover over that policy.

  • John East Belfast

    Percy

    You really lower the quality of Slugger when you post like that.

    For starters she came bottom of that poll and is no longer in a unionist part.

    Secondly I am sure she would find lots of people in GB who would agree with her anyway

  • YelloSmurf

    Belfastjj, it’s not racist to talk about immigration, but these people didn’t open up a debate about immigration. Nor did they open up a debate about the benefits system, they simply acted in a way which is blatantly racist and illegal. The way in which they behaved is reprehensible, and should be condemned without equivocation.

  • spige

    It’s high time for a debate, a mass debate.

  • joeCanuck

    How can you say “absolutely ignorant” and then agree with me by saying “Some were granted transitional control..”
    Talking outside of both sides of your mouth it seems.
    And proves what point?

  • Alias

    Because it is post-democratic. Can folks in the UK alter the EU’s immigration policy? No. You tried to create a false alternative impression that they could. They can’t.

  • Alias

    The Statistics Commission found in a study that 1.4 million of the 1.7 million jobs created since 1997 had been filled by immigrants. That is over 80% of all jobs created in the UK since 1997. Another study by Manchester University’s Centre for Research on Socio-Cultural Change found that the UK government created over half of those jobs.

    Now let’s look at that. With UK unemployment at 2.5 million and immigrants taking 80% of new jobs created, that means that the UK has to create 12.5 million new jobs just to get that 2.5 million off the dole. Since the UK created 1.7 million jobs over 10 years (in a now defunct boom economy), it would take it another 73 years of a booming economy to create those jobs. Indeed, the state created half of those jobs and as the state is now shedding jobs, not creating them, it is self-evident that the immigration policy is not in the UK’s national interest. At any rate, it is certainly not in the interest of UK citizens who are looking for work.

  • joeCanuck

    Mass debate? That happened a few days ago on the”..Catholic…” thread. You need to pay attention 🙂

  • joeCanuck

    We’re doomed, I tell you, doomed.
    Countries like Canada with large immigration are economic basket cases. Oh, wait a minute, Canada suffered least during the latest recession. Someone is fiddling the figures,I guess. Bet you it’s some immigrant number cruncher.

  • Alan Maskey

    Alias: I am very disappointed with you. Mass immigration suited some British people: McAlpine, Wimpey, Joe Laing, landlords, lobby groups. It did not suit others: skilled trademen, Britsh navvies etc.

    But how rmeiss of you to forget the Micks. They just took their policy from London. Either too lazy or too thick to have their own policy. Thank God for Home Rule and brotheled Guinness.

    And of course, it gets worse. The immigrant Poles and the rest are hard workers just as the 1950s’ Asians were. But their kids will be scum bags. Such is life.

  • Johnny Boy

    Put the squeeze on the welfare state and the immigrant scroungers will get dealt with at the same time as the home grown variety.

    As for themuns comin’ over hear and stealing our jobs; if the minimum wage laws are being applied and a local person cannot compete for a job against an immigrant who has barely any English, I’d have to say tough.

    I love all the stats being rolled out, 78% of people know that they are bulls**t.

  • castrosghost

    Leave out the racism issue(although thats exactly what occured) in regards to those sacked and look at the facts. They are simply guilty of gross misconduct and seeing as it was perpetrated deliberately, those involved should be sacked.

  • Neville Bagnall

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Friedman argued that a return to open borders was incompatible with the welfare state – that you can have free immigration to jobs but no welfare (i.e. a laissez faire labour market) or a welfare state with immigration controls. Its amusing to hear ill-informed welfare haters proffer their support for a concept that would mean the end of immigration control.

  • Sean Og

    The racist sacked civil servants should be named. Why have they not been?

  • edgeoftheunion

    http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/httpatangledwebsquarespace/driving-tuv-forward.html

    “Ann has lived in Castlereagh for 40 years and knows it inside out. She is no stooge. No TUV candidate is a stooge.”

  • Damian O’Loan

    1. The policy of open labour markets certainly places a downward pressure on salaries and wages. But nobody questions why a person in India should be paid less for the same skills and effort than a (white) person in Ireland or Britain? Why?

    Why is the pressure not to have international upwards harmonisation of wages and salaries?

    2. Most of the jobs created in Britain were taken by immigrant workers. But reducing from this the figure of British workers in employment overseas and the number of immigrants who are now British citizens – which demands fluent English – the figure decreases rapidly.

    3. The profits gained from the pressure on labour costs caused by immigration are not redistributed fairly, so it is true that the poorest pay far more than the elite. But why is the anger directed against low-paid workers who have left homes and families but not those who profit at everyone’s expense? Perhaps xenophobia and racism is a factor here?

    4. Labour costs have to be competitive in an globalised economy. Did these racists and does Ann Cooper have any idea of what that should be and how it should be maintained?

    5. Why are single mothers to blame for the fact that the minimum amount to live on with some sense of dignity (perhaps not the case in the South) given in social security is also the amount paid for a large percentage of jobs in a top 10 economy? Why is nobody looking at corporate tax revenue?

    6. Was the global recession a conspiracy of black people and gypsies? Why are they suddenly of interest when financial regulation is a done and dusted subject and tax havens are running as successfully as ever?

    7. Do all the posters here realise that raising the subject of immigration, even finding it to be of mixed advantage, doesn’t justify a single assumption about an individual based on their ethnicity?

    8. Look at the growth in the outsourcing services sector. Do a Google News search for Michael Page. I look forward to seeing how the British and Irish are treated when they have to go to India to beg for work so they and their families can eat and stay warm. I believe one of the two in particular had a problem being associated with dogs and blacks. Was it one or both that offended?

  • greenflag

    They have union protection methinks at least until such time as their neighbours find out . It’s a small place NI .

  • Neville Bagnall

    Yep, its one of the 4 freedoms – capital, goods, services and labour. Keystone of the common market. Oh and by the way, the four freedoms apply to the EEA, not just the EU.

  • Neville Bagnall

    The purpose of the Freedom of Labour in the common market rules is to help prevent a distortion of the labour market in the common market area. The alternative is the NAFTA model where low wage jobs migrate to low wage economies and illegal immigration rises as workers attempt to move to countries with a higher standard of living and greater opportunities. The EU model aims to create a homogeneous market as opposed to a sectoral market. Since labour is free to move, capital should not be able to drive the cost of labour down in one nation. Nations retain the right of return for unproductive immigrants. That is why France was able to expel the Romanian nationals. You cannot remain for more than 3 months without a means of supporting yourself.

  • Neville Bagnall

    Alias, you are suggesting that the UK Government is actively discriminating in favour of (legal) immigrants. I think that is patently absurd. Is it not much more likely that immigrants are simply more prepared to work for lower paid jobs? Thats called freedom of labour. The point is, they are working. Not “scrounging”. I’ve no issue with anyone that comes to the UK or Ireland and works.

  • Michael

    Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!

  • Neville Bagnall

    Sorry for the misplaced reply.
    And to add… if they are entitled to welfare payments or housing because they are working for the minimum wage then they should get them.

    Equality before the law and administration. That is not what the victims of the HMRC staff got.

    One thing I haven’t seen yet is any indication that it was “illegal” immigrants or asylum seekers that were discriminated against. The BBC News piece merely says “ethnic minorities”. They could be UK born citizens on that basis. Would Ann Cooper think that was ok? Would you Alias?

  • drumlins rock

    “free them up to actively seek employment”

    ROTFPML 🙂

  • drumlins rock

    canda is a rather big place though joe!

  • alley cat

    The woman is allowed an opinion for gawd sake

  • Michael

    And the rest of us are allowed to be of the opinion that handing out medals for racially motivated crime is wrong.
    for gawdsss sake

  • Big Maggie

    So am I, alley cat.

    My opinion is that Ann Cooper is an odious little racist and a bigot.

    She fitted so well with the rest of the TUV I’m surprised they’ve parted company.

  • It seems to me that in every discussion about racism the racism of other nationalities is often ignored. You do not have to look far to find it. Rwanda is infamous for its little ethnic cleansing spree. Indians still practice a cast system, parts of Africa have major tribal problems.Immigration must be openly debated and that means from all sides.

    If Ms Cooper has done nothing else, she has shown us how impossible it is to squeeze an opinion into 140 characters!! I disagree with what she said, but she is entitled to say it, just as I am entitled to say I hope the culprits concerned are summarily dismissed. If for no other reason than no employee of the revenue or any other government department has the right to play God with peoples incomes.

  • Damian O’Loan

    “Indians still practice a cast system”

    The inter-Hindu caste system is vile but no, it is not racism. This is a pretty pathetic piece of whataboutery.

    Everyone has a right to an opinion. If your opinion is based on prejudice and ignorance, as in the case of Ann Cooper, it’s perhaps best to find out the facts before sharing it.

    If your ambition is to represent people’s interests, that doesn’t mean adopting whatever prejudiced and ignorant opinions you hear, which is populism, but establishing the facts and putting your case for a more progressive system for all of your potential electorate.

    Nobody’s closing down the debate on immigration; it gets more front pages than almost any other subject in some newspapers. But some of us prefer an informed opinion to a racist rant.

  • Ghost Bear

    ..talking of the TUV, what’s Mr Vance up to these days anyway? Is he planning to stand in future elections on the TUV ticket?

  • Damian O’Loan

    Get over yourself. Racism is not just about black v white. It is not whataboutery to point out that this country and the UK are not the only ones with problems about racism. France is in the process of evicting Roma travelers am I allowed to mention that or is that whataboutery too?

    The Cast system is a form of racism and whats worse its based on religious doctrine, which says if someone is born to one family or group they are less than someone born to another family or group.

    I have no ambition to represent any other opinion than my own which is more than can be said for you. Im tired of the politically correct nonsense which has stifled debate about racism for years. If it gets more front page coverage now it is because people have finally forced it there. And no Im not a racist and my last comment was not a rant. I quoted Ms Coopers tweet because that is shown above and for no other reason. I also said I hope the culprits involved in denying people their benefits are sacked. You ignored that bit, how typical.

    You are the ambitious one and as such you should be listening to all the concerns of people and not just the ones you consider politically acceptable.

  • JJ malloy

    I am moving to Finland (if I learn the language) or to Canada. These islands, and America, are all going to hell.

  • greenflag

    It was the mention of Vance that reminded me it’s Friday and time for a week end chuckle or should that be chuckie ?

    Two little twin boys are sent home from school in East Belfast with a note saying ,

    Dear Mrs Smith , your boys say their names are Bush and Cheney . Is this true or are they making fun of me ?’

    Mrs Smith writes back :

    Dear teacher,

    The name is Ms Smith and if you had two little bastards what would you call them ?

  • Damian O’Loan

    It is a good idea to learn how to spell Caste before making a point based on it.

    It’s also a good idea to ask yourself how racism being an international phenomenon could make it any more acceptable.

    Is it the debate about immigration supposedly being stifled, or racism? You find ‘politically correct people’ are suuppressing the right to be racist? You’re absolutely not a racist, but you think we should move away from an argument about immigration to a debate on racism?

    Fine, that’d probably be more honest. Why should we abandon the belief that racism is dangerous and ignorant?

    Try to stick to playing the ball, again.

  • madraj55

    If this Ann Cooper was in the DUP you would have the likes of londongreg coming onto the airwaves to’put it in context’ in his usual whataboutery drivel.

  • Damian O’Loan

    Did I make a spelling mistake? Doh…

    I was not the one to drag personal ambition into this you did, read your comment again.

    In the comment you took objection to I simply pointed out that racism is not confined to these islands or to just the white people in these islands. Immigration is about racism or has that escaped your notice.

    Racism being international does not make it more acceptable, but it does show the issue is world wide and that is what I was trying to point out. It is important to remember that people all over the world have the same fears and prejudice.

  • Damian O’Loan

    “I was not the one to drag personal ambition into this you did, read your comment again.”

    Yes, I have. It said, “if your ambition is to represent people’s interests…” The thread is about a woman who stood for election.

    “Immigration is about racism or has that escaped your notice.”

    Yes, actually. I thought a debate on immigration would be about immigration, and a debate on racism would be about racism. And that some racist people would try to disguise their racism as views on immigration.

    But it helps to know your argument is: you’re absolutely not racist, but racism needs to be debated, not immigration. As I said, very honest.

    “Racism being international does not make it more acceptable, but it does show the issue is world wide and that is what I was trying to point out. It is important to remember that people all over the world have the same fears and prejudice.”

    Why is it important to point out that racism is a worldwide phenomenon? Because that’s not blindingly, depressingly obvious? Because Ann Cooper is in the company of other ignorant and prejudiced people so that makes it ok? Or for some other reason? I’m glad you realise it doesn’t add anything to the debate on the merits of racism though.

    I don’t correct spelling mistakes habitually. I’m suggesting your “cast”, along with the use of “Indians” and not “Hindus” may be indicative of something worth a second thought.

  • Damian O’Loan

    Ms Cooper is entitled to her views, thats called free speech. I dont have to agree with her to think it must be allowed. Her views are probably the main reason she only got 600 votes and that speaks for itself and as far as I am concerned that is all that need be said.

    Immigration is about racism. If the only people going to different countries were the same colour, language etc as the people already there there would not be a problem.

    Immigration/racism, call it what you will, does need to be out in the open, calling someone a racist because they welcome the debate is an old and discredited method of stifling that debate.

  • Damian O’Loan

    “Ms Cooper is entitled to her views, thats called free speech. I dont have to agree with her to think it must be allowed.”

    Yes, I began with by saying, “everyone has a right to an opinion. If your opinion is based on prejudice and ignorance, as in the case of Ann Cooper, it’s perhaps best to find out the facts before sharing it.”

    “Immigration is about racism.”

    Immigration is about people coming to live and work in a country. It causes problems regardless of race:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/frustrated-oz-locals-lash-out-at-backpackers-from-the-wild-county-bondi-2007236.html

    Racism looks like the images of lynching you can find at a click. Go and look and tell me we need to have a debate.

    If you do think we should debate it, tell me why we should abandon the belief that it is dangerous and ignorant. If you have no reason to recommend it, don’t claim it’s political correctness stifling the debate. It’s simply that some people realise that racism is dangerous and ignorant, but are also quite willing to defend that view.

    Nobody is stifling anything. Some of us appreciate an informed view. Unlike Ann Cooper’s.

  • Damian O’Loan

    “Racism looks like the images of lynching you can find at a click. Go and look and tell me we need to have a debate.

    If you do think we should debate it, tell me why we should abandon the belief that it is dangerous and ignorant. If you have no reason to recommend it, don’t claim it’s political correctness stifling the debate. It’s simply that some people realise that racism is dangerous and ignorant, but are also quite willing to defend that view.”

    I almost did not reply. This is going no where I thought, why persist I thought, and then I re read your comment and realised what it meant and what it, expressed so often by others, has always meant.

    You are saying that only those superior beings in the appropriate political parties or media should voice an opinion because they are the only ones who can be trusted with either the debate or the truth.

    IMO it is that view, guarded for years by politicians and the like that is the cause of extremism even more than the nationality or number of immigrants to a country.

    Ann Cooper was wrong, that goes without saying, but the debate is right and everyone is entitled to a voice in that debate.

  • Damian O’Loan

    The debate is not closed, it is here every day, it is blindingly, depressingly obvious.

    If you have anything to add on the merits of racism, go ahead. If you want to debate immigration, try my eight points above to start.

    Stop accusing me of shutting down debate. Did I suggest this thread was a waste of time? I suggested it’s better to add an informed view than a racist rant.

  • greenflag

    JJ

    In order to expedite your departure here’s a quick intro to Finnish numbers .:)

    Cardinal numbers and key inflected forms
    Digit Nominative Genitive Partitive Illative
    0 nolla nollan nollaa nollaan
    1 yksi yhden yhtä yhteen
    2 kaksi kahden kahta kahteen
    3 kolme kolmen kolmea kolmeen
    4 neljä neljän neljää neljään
    5 viisi viiden viittä viiteen
    6 kuusi kuuden kuutta kuuteen
    7 seitsemän seitsemän seitsemää* seitsemään
    8 kahdeksan** kahdeksan kahdeksaa kahdeksaan
    9 yhdeksän*** yhdeksän yhdeksää yhdeksään
    10 kymmenen kymmenen kymmentä kymmeneen

    ‘* sometimes seitsentä (alternative form)
    ‘** sometimes abbreviated as kasi (in the spoken language only)
    ‘*** sometimes abbreviated as ysi (in the spoken language only)
    To get the teens, ‘toista’ is added to the base number: yksitoista, kaksitoista … yhdeksäntoista. (‘Toista’ is the partitive form of ‘toinen’, meaning ‘other’ or ‘second’.
    Twenty is simply ‘kaksikymmentä’ = ‘two tens’ (with kymmenen appearing in the partitive after a number as is normal for nouns). Then the decades are kolmekymmentä, neljäkymmentä … yhdeksänkymmentä.
    100 is ‘sata’, 200 is ‘kaksisataa’ and so on.
    1000 is ‘tuhat’, 2000 is ‘kaksituhatta’ and so on.
    So, 3721 = ‘kolme-tuhatta-seitsemän-sataa-kaksi-kymmentä-yksi’ (actually written as one long word with no dashes in between).
    Long numbers (like 32534756) are separated in three-digit sections with space beginning from the end of the number (for example 32 534 756). Writing it with letters follow the spacing, in the example (in numbers over one million, ‘miljoona’ (‘million’) is written separately) ‘kolme-kymmentä-kaksi miljoonaa viisi-sataa-kolme-kymmentä-neljä-tuhatta seitsemän-sataa-viisi-kymmentä-kuusi’. (No dashes, they are only to make the number look clear.)

    Canada may be the less linguistically challenging 😉

  • Neville Bagnall

    Oh come on d.r. Its a big place, but the population lives in clusters. I doubt that the immigrants are heading for Nunavut. You can do better than that.

    Canadian population densities:
    http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/10/70010-004-BBFE93FB.gif

  • Neville Bagnall

    The immigration debate is partly mixed up with racism, partly with nationalism, partly with religion, and partly with economics. The Poles are caucasian, that didn’t protect them. The immigration debate is about perceived threats versus perceived benefits. Its multifaceted on both sides and defies simple categorisation.

    This thread seems to be assuming that the discrimination was against immigrants and was motivated by their immigrant status. That may well be true, but the BBC article only mentions “ethnic minorities”, so the motivation could be simple racism or nationalism.

    Whatever the motivation, it is a simple case of discrimination and misconduct in the performance of a public duty.

    Ann Cooper is entitled to her opinion in favour of discrimination whether motivated by nationalism or racism. I wouldn’t agree with either but I’d recognise them as established (and in the case of racism, deplorable) policy positions. I do not recognise law breaking by public officials as a valid policy position or worthy of praise.

  • DC

    Not a fan of the Anglo-Saxon (add to this -Celtic) economic model?

  • RepublicanStones

    This idiot no more represents unionism than Professor Plum represents world academia.

  • PN

    Interesting how the people who complain most about not being allowed to debate about these things (P C Brigade blah blah blah) never seem to get around to actually trying to debate.

  • Alan Maskey

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/roma-community-raising-children-to-steal-says-irish-judge-14545832.html

    Do these gypsies deserve medals? The judge did not think so., though their Free legal Aid brief did.

  • Mark McGregor

    This debate is peppered with red-herrings. Cooper has not been rounded on for having a position on immigration.

    She has rightly been highlighted as supporting those engaged in illegal discrimination against ethnic minorities.

    She is supporting law-breaking because the victims are part of a minority.

    This isn’t a free speech issue on immigration, it is solely about an individual praising breaking the law to disadvantage people.

  • Yeah but i’m expanding it to include immigration i know others don’t want to talk about the problem !! tough

  • Well it is tough to understand what sort of ‘debate’ you’re trying to have when you link a story from that well known (and not particularly balanced) bastion of tolerance and understanding the Daily Express.
    John if someone wants to start a thread about that all well and good but so far they haven’t.
    This thread is about a failed politician and her expression of opinion in support of a bunch of bigoted racist idiots who were employed by HRMC. You have your own blog if you want a debate over on that, have at it but don’t try to hijack this one.

  • Alan Maskey

    Moochin: How narrow would you like the comments to be focused?Do you want any leeway?

  • LOL Alan of course he doesn’t want to to debate the issues surrounding his post – cause he can’t debate.

    PPSNI spent £233,751 Interpreters fee’s for Foreigners During 2009-10 SHOCKING !!

  • Quantas linguas fala o senhor? Wie viel sprahe sprechen sie? Combien des langues parley-vous? Kumyan lalong koz u? …

    Why are some people proud of of their ignorance in speaking only one language and expecting the rest of the world to suit them?

  • See your ignorance was you read into my post what you wanted to !!!

    Do you think we could have got better value for money directly employing foreign language students to interpret ??

    Always take your time before jumping in and know your facts – theres a wee tip for ya !!