CUs candidates and the French

The French are officially counted one of the victors of the Second World War: unfortunately everyone apart from our Gallic friends knows that victory was delivered to them by others: they were in large measure the beneficiaries of the blood, toil, tears and sweat of others. It would be unfair to characterise the UUP’s position as the same as that of the French in the war but there are certain similarities.

The UUP’s current optimism is in large measure due to the DUP’s woes both regarding the TUV effect, the recent Irisgate scandals and the defeat they suffered at Hillsborough. The rest of the UUP’s enhanced position has been procured for them by the support (largely financial) of their Conservative partners. The UUP even in their position of power are, however, in danger of snatching if not defeat then stalemate from the jaws of victory. Alex Kane yesterday on the Politics show suggested that the CUs could come back with either zero or 4-5 seats and commented on what interesting candidates the CUs were putting forwards.

This may be true but the constituency profiles and the people selected for the seats thus far announced seem less than ideal and far from wholly encouraging for the CUs.East Belfast: Trevor Ringland

This may be a reasonable move in view of the high level of support Naomi Long attracts in the seat. A moderate unionist like Ringland might be expected to pick up a considerable number of Long’s normal voters keen to see someone other than Peter Robinson elected. However, that avoids the fact that with the TUV standing there is a chance that a multi way split in the unionist vote would let Alliance gain their first elected MP. Hence, Long will undoubtedly mount a major campaign and her supporters and workers will be buoyed up by the prospect of having a chance of her being elected. In that context Ringland might not get all the liberal votes he might otherwise reasonably expect.

The TUV will also of course be very keen to do well in the seat. It has some very hard line areas, a significant working class part and even many of the more affluent areas are far from liberal. In addition East Belfast is the home of the TUV’s opponent in chief Peter Robinson so they are likely to mount a major campaign and TUV supporters are unlikely to vote CU in order to knife Robinson as in a four way fight they have the possibility of victory.

All this leaves until the end the biggest issue. The biggest beast in East Belfast, arguably the biggest beast in Northern Ireland’s political landscape is Peter Robinson. He is not likely to give up without a fight and neither are his supporters nor party workers. Robinson has also emerged surprisingly little damaged from Irisgate and now very much has a point to prove. In such a context Robinson is going to be a hard man to beat whether by the CUs or by anyone else.

To be fair it is difficult to know what better candidate the CUs might have run: Empey has failed too many times against Robinson. A harder line candidate might have attracted some TUV leaning supporters though of course they will have their own candidate in what is a hard line constituency but that would have lost any Alliance support. Hence, Ringland is not a bad choice but expecting him to take the seat is probably over optimistic. However, as I always say I do not do predictions.

Strangford: Mike Nesbitt

The CUs may well see this seat as now amongst their most winnable targets and getting Mike Nesbitt as a major coup: they may be correct but again the constituency profile / candidate match is less than perfect. This seat was held by John Taylor prior to Iris Robinson’s victory and is again not an especially liberal area. Although the DUP are undoubtedly more bruised here than in any other seat in Northern Ireland they still have a number of decent local representatives whom they can move up to fight the Westminster seat. Again Nesbitt is not an especially enticing prospect for TUV voters who have their own candidate in Terry Williams and again must fancy their chances of an upset here. Nesbitt’s comments about Patricia MacBride’s brother and his possible initial support for Eames Bradley’s £12,000 are unlikely to endear him to TUV, DUP (or even some UUP) voters. Another major problem is the perception, however unjustified, that Nesbitt is a late convert to unionism and is a serial job leaver who finishes little that he has started but is out for the next interesting experience and tick in his personal list of “been there done that.”

Despite all that Strangford may well offer the CUs one of their best chances of a gain at Westminster but it might have been better to have chosen a more straightforward candidate for Strangford and run Nesbitt in the likes of South Belfast. In addition even if Mike Nesbitt is elected for them it could all yet turn to tears for the CUs in Strangford.

Lagan Valley: Daphne Trimble

This again looks like a remarkably bad decision. Jeffrey Donaldson is extremely well dug in here and short of some disaster which is as yet unforeseen he will remain the one to beat. Donaldson may be a political lightweight, may be prone to making foolish gaffes (such as that retention of the Full Time Reserve was a precondition for P&J devolution) and is clearly a bit too fond of blockbuster movies. However, he remains an overwhelmingly hard working and a popular constituency MP. Against him the TUV have put forward what must be their best candidate after Jim Allister. Keith Harbinson has proved a good campaigner and candidate and has a profile although far from huge, better than most TUV hopefuls.

Against this popular sitting MP and a good TUV candidate the CUs have decided to put Daphne Trimble. Mrs. Trimble is not known for much in the way of her political profile positive or negative but comes encumbered with the baggage of being the wife of the man who practically single handedly destroyed the party he inherited from Jim Molyneaux (once MP for Lagan Valley). Hence, Mrs. Trimble starts in an already difficult seat with additional handicaps albeit not entirely of her own making. The CUs may have calculated that they could not win this seat and so allowed Daphne to have a go but that also has dangers. The Trimble name anywhere on a CU ballot paper conjures up thoughts of abject failure; of endless lines in the sand meekly yet gracelessly surrendered and of an election campaign (2005) with that unforgettable line “Decent People vote Unionist” which if the Labour Party’s 1983 election manifesto was the longest suicide note in British political history, that UUP effort was a short snappy bullet to the brain. To allow the name that dare not speak its name (Trimble) to be uttered in this CU election is foolhardy. It reminds garden centre unionists and any Catholic unionists of what they used to dislike about the UUP (dancing down the Garvaghy Road); hard line unionists of a Lundy worse than the erstwhile governor of Londonderry himself and old fashioned UUP types of a period in their history they would rather forget.

Upper Bann: Harry Hamilton

This seat brings us to one of the worst of the CU’s errors and a demonstration of why if they do well at these elections it will truly be because of the victories won for them by the successes of the TUV and the errors of the DUP. Of all the constituencies with CU candidates announced this is arguably the most winnable. David Simpson’s grip on the seat is far from secure: it has always had a significant level of UUP support; even Trimble did not lose by that much in 2005 and there are still 2 UUP to 2 DUP MLAs.

However, this seat was once the stomping ground of Harold McCusker, a hard liner within the UUP and elected David Trimble in the pre Lundification days when he too was a hard line unionist. In contrast whilst Harry Hamilton is no doubt a likeable and competent person, even within current CU circles he is not regarded as particularly hard line. If Hamilton is to win this seat he needs to attract harder line support, something he is poorly equipped to do. In addition if the TUV do not stand (I have no inside information) he will need to appeal to their supporters to win and annoyed by David Simpson as TUVists may be they are likely to have limited enthusiasm to turn out to vote for the Freddie Mercury impersonator. The CUs can take little comfort from the Waringstown by election as that was in a middle class and (by Upper Bann standards) liberal part of the constituency in which the DUP did not stand and the TUV candidate was possibly less than perfect: hence, extrapolation is utterly meaningless

The folly of the CUs in picking Hamilton is magnified when one considers that one of, if not their most formidable politician: Danny Kennedy, is pointlessly being run in neighbouring Newry and Armagh. It is unclear whether or not Kennedy insisted on this but had anyone with tactical cunning been in charge in CU high command he should have been forced to run in Upper Bann. In the current circumstances whether the TUV run or not Simpson would have been packing his bags already had he been facing Kennedy. Instead although the seat is not yet lost for the CUs they are insisting on making it much more difficult and depriving a politician who might realistically have made it to a Conservative government of a chance of achieving his national potential.

It may be that the CUs will produce some more sensible decisions in the remaining seats which have yet to be announced. It may also be that such is the crisis within the DUP that the CUs can yet take some of the seats I have mentioned especially Strangford. However, the decisions made thus far in each of the winnable seats are extremely dubious and imply that the CUs have learnt little about the electoral landscape since they were unceremoniously destroyed in 2005. That they still have any chance is due to the hole the DUP have excavated for themselves. Like the French in the Second World War if the CUs come out of this as victors they must thank themselves less than almost all the other participants. Currently their tactics call to mind the brilliance of the Maginot Line.

  • interested

    So what was that defeat Turgon you were talking about that your party leader helped draw up when in the DUP?

    • There will be no sinn fein control of policing and justice.
    • There will be no SF Justice Minister.
    • There will be NO Irish Language Act.
    • There will be NO new North-South Bodies
    • The Parades Commission will not be in place next year.
    • Outstanding Issues such as Education will be addressed and the working of Government will be improved.
    • Additional resources for the Police and the Courts 1.1 Billion
    • 400 million for hearing loss claims
    • Part Time Reserve recognition payment 22 million
    • PPW to be retained for former officers
    • Parades There will be no jumping ahead – parades will be completed in the same way as policing. There is a timetable for parades legislation to be completed.
    • Failure of other parties to keep their commitments will have consequences.

  • aquifer

    “they were in large measure the beneficiaries of the blood, toil, tears and sweat of others.”

    That’s the DUP surely?

    Easyjet did more for the Union than Papa Doc.

    The SDLP did more for democracy and stability.

    The DUP may have done more for developers but that is a different thread.

  • Paddy

    Turgon: If you are to continue making (inappropriate) military analogies in your posts, please get your facts right and do not spew out right wing American clap trap.

    The British deserted the French who fought on valiantly against superior numbers (and superior tactics) until the fall of Paris. Whilst the French were notably missing from D Day, the Free French acquitted themselves with honour (though not the Moroccan hordes who gang raped the women of Monte Cassino after the Poles won their most famous victory).

    The Poles were always among Germany’s top four enemies. It was the Soviet Union who broke the back of Germany (as well as Hitler’s psychoses). The Brits, if that is who you are implying, were only 25% of Eisenhower’s second front and were not a decisive force.

    Must dash now but I find the continued attacks on the valour etc of the French by self serving Americans distasteful. The Yanks, of course, built up Britian and France after the war for their own reaosns (whilst stripping them of most of their colonies for Yankee hegemonic reasons).

    France was/is a premier League force. Unionists are an afterbirth in a backwater. Apples to apples etc. Please know your place.

  • interested


    “In addition East Belfast is the home of the TUV’s enemy in chief Peter Robinson”,

    I thought Republicans were the enemy not fellow Unionists is the TUV campaign then one of hatred towards the DUP and UUP who after supported the Belfast Agreement?

  • interested


    I really have to laugh at the TUVs choice for Strangford, he has not been seen in his Council area since he was elected under the DUP, and only left the DUP because he didnt get choosen to stand as an MLA in 2007!

  • Turgon

    You are quite right on the word enemy. I will ammend.

    I am not trying to stop you commenting but if you read the blog it is about the UUP and my contention that their candidates are not especially well chosen. It might be beneficial to address that rather than obsess about your views on the TUV.

  • Bob Wilson

    One of your poorer pieces of analysis Turgon; predicated larger on the assumption that clarion calls to the ‘hardline’ vote are always the best way forward. Admittedly there is good historical evidence for it but things do change however slowly.

    I would be interested in your take on how the success or otherwise of the CUs, DUP and TUV might work out. i.e. if the TUV polling well in GE and then the Assembly would the collapse and what do you think would happen then?
    If DUP poll well will it just be business as usual?
    If CUs poll well is this good for unionism as NI is brought into the UK mainstream?

  • Reader

    Turgon: …and annoyed by David Simpson as TUVists may be they are likely to have limited enthusiasm to turn out to vote for the Freddie Mercury impersonator.
    But if they did! Just think of the winner’s speech at the count. So very different from the hymns and GSTQ from the DUP

  • This fixation of Turgon and other unionists with the Second World War is unhealthy. It’s like the 1966 World Cup victory. Trading on past victories is pure fantasy. The French and the Germans now rule Europe, the British play second fiddle. We in Ireland are on the tambourine – but we have no delusions of grandeur.

  • Turgon,

    Regarding FST, surely the DUPs best idea would be to stand aside and publically request that the UUP do the same in SB, giving them the high moral ground and allowing them to blame the UUP if the SDLP win in SB.

    Regarding the Maginot line, as I mentioned to you in a previous post, is it not very reminiscent of the extensive fortifications (triple locks, Unionist confidence, Orange Parades through Nationlaist Areas, Police Reserve) built up by the DUP to ensure that the devolution of Police and Justice would not take place in a political lifetime, which SF and the 2 governments just skipped around by simulaneously threatening the DUP with an Assembly election and joint soverignity?

  • It will be interesting to see the betting on how many seats the UCUNFs get and although being moderately moderate myself I cant help myself in wanting the whole pompous, misconstrued, edifice to come crashing down on top of Reggie and Davey and then watch them wriggle as they explain that the embarassing shambles is a long term project or that the city of the anti-Christ/Rome was not built in a day.

    Realistically, two seats will be a good result for them, though I’d put my money on one.

  • Stephen Ferguson

    1, Ringland will be getting my vote. He’s exactly the type of moderate Unionist the party should be standing in every seat.

    2, Far from being a serial job leaver, Mike Nesbitt has proven himself to be a man of principle and integrity – especially when you consider he supported a colleague against UTV in a breach of contract case. How many people would go up against their current employers on behalf of a friend because they believed they acted improperly?

    3, Unionist people are starting to see David Trimble differently than perhaps 5 or 6 years ago. Yes, he might not have been able to control some elements of his party and the ‘Decent People’ slogan was a disaster but it was he who had the balls to move away from the traditional ‘No’, ‘Never’, ‘No Surrender’ and tackle Sinn Fein face to face. Do you think ‘Big Ian’ would have entered government with Gerry and Martin had Trimble not taken the risks years earlier? History will show DT as a man prepared to take risks to bring peace to all the people of NI.

    4, Harry Hamilton – a long standing member of the party who is well known in the constituency from his years of canvassing and has a positive public profile across the entire country. Sounds like a good pick to me.

    5, Danny Kennedy has delivered some of the worst pubic speaking performances over the past few months from any politician. I would not describe him as a ‘formidable politician’.

  • slappymcgroundout

    “do not spew out right wing American clap trap.”

    Sorry, but as an already disclosed card-carrying member of the US Republican Party…

    Which brings me to:

    “Must dash now but I find the continued attacks on the valour etc of the French by self serving Americans distasteful. The Yanks, of course, built up Britian and France after the war for their own reaosns (whilst stripping them of most of their colonies for Yankee hegemonic reasons).”

    Would you like an order of freedom fries with that? Now, would you care to provide some, any, specifics, to support what seems an absurd and preposterous proposition to me, to wit, “whilst stripping them of most of their colonies for Yankee hegemonic reasons.”

    Lastly, try remember that there are more here now than there now, and so Eire is now an American enterprise. I think it was 34.5 million here self-identifying as Irish-American. You’re dwarfed. And today begins Irish-American heritage month. So we’re bound to be even more insufferable over the next month, though we can never be more insufferable than the French (why we loathe them so).

  • drumcairnharp

    It is interesting to see that the UUP have selected Sandra Overend to fight Mid Ulster. If I was cynical I would say this is to build a profile to take over her DAd’s assembley seat.It is ironic that the UUP complain about the Robinson,Dodds and McCrea family business but have kept quite on this one. Another point worth noting is will Sandra’s pay stop during the election campaign as she is paid to be her Daddy’s PA(money which comes from the Assembly)and will she have use of her Daddy’s farmyard office to fight the election(electoral commission already informed). Sandra will probably top the Unionist poll but I wonder if George Shields or Jackie Crawford had been selected would they do better.

  • Paddy


    So you are a Francophobic American. Just because France did not jump to your illegal invasion of Iraq etc.

    “Now, would you care to provide some, any, specifics, to support what seems an absurd and preposterous proposition to me, to wit, “whilst stripping them of most of their colonies for Yankee hegemonic reasons.”

    Watch, for example, The World at War and/or In the Year of the Pig. (for beginners). In the former, the Yanks played a pre set game in the Pacific War to roll the Japanese and grab island bases, and to make Japan an unsinkable aircraft carrier. They have a hub and spokes system with the USA as the hub and Japan, Korea and Taiwan as dependent spokes.
    Europe, meanwhile was broke. They made the Brits sell all their foreign reserves before sending Land Lease help. Churchill bankrupted Britain and was dutifully kicked out by the Brit electorate at the first chance. Indeed, Churchill’s Dunkirk speech makes specific mention of the New World masters, implying the war was waged, by him, for American more than than British imperialism,
    FDR stated he wanted no French return to Indo China and so France’s attempts to re establish her hegemony there was undermined. End result of World war 2: USA became the main non Soviet hegemonic power.
    Keynes even saw this at Bretton Woods. The Yanks called the shots for Yankee reasons.
    That is why she gave the Brits Trident and made France a UN Permanent Council member. France had been totally defeated by the Germans in 1940 but, all of a sudden, had forces to occupy Germany in 1945. American strategy of keeping old enemies down and new ones divided.

    You would not be “free” (to kill,rape and mutilate) without the French. More Yanks fought for the Brits than fought against him. The French were the pivotal force in your so called war of independence. To me, your history comes from Rush Limbaugh or some other Yankee cuckoo.

    Though Turgon’s use of the wrong military analogies grates, it is nothing to Yankee imperialism. And, whether you call them French or freedom fries, Americans eat far too many of them. Over consumption: America’s culture.

  • Paul

    This election will see the focus on the sitting DUP MPs and the challenge coming from the CU candidates.The TUV will probably apart from NA poll a couple of thousand votes max they simply have no credible candidates.

  • Paul

    just to add a couple of thousand votes per seat max for the TUV where they the TUV stand. I meant apart from NA where allister will put in a very good showing but fail to take the NA seat in my opinion.I think people are overstating the TUV impact and are merely looking at allisters euro showing the gen election will be much different.

  • slug

    I am more enthusiastic about the UCUNF candidates than Turgon. That said, its a game of two halves and the second batch of candidates will be important.

  • Paddy

    Your spot on, in this statement Turgon displays why he will never understand Irish republicanism. Like the Nazis he probably believes the French resistance was made up of a bunch of Terrorists and like the quislings who supported Philippe Pétain, believes the Free French were Traitors.

    Only Turgon could compare a bunch of free loading opportunist Irish politicians, with the French men and women who fought the Nazis to help liberate their homeland.

  • Turgon

    I could point out that the stuff about the French was in jest but you are remarkably lacking in humour so that would be a waste of my time.

    Alternatively I could point out that you base your harted of middle class unionists on the fact that once on holiday you met a doctor from NI whom you did not like. You could of course lie and deny that you ever said that: it is up to you.

  • dodrade

    If the TUV poll well in Upper Bann and East Londonderry it’s not impossible that Sinn Fein could take both seats instead of the UUP, although Simpson is more vulnerable than Campbell. If the UUP are going to win anywhere it will be South Antrim.

  • Paddy


    I am glad to see your Francophobic comments were in jest. But many such comments made by Americans are not in jest and have led to francophobic outbreaks of violence. Also, a heroic struggle, such as France’s lone stand (post Dunkirk) against overwhelming odds, is tangential at best to your main point about the inner tantrums of Unionists.

    Though over fond of analogies, metaphors and the like myself, they should be relevant to your main point. No more bashing France please. Stick to the usual suspects.

  • Only Turgon could compare a bunch of free loading opportunist Irish politicians, with the French men and women who fought the Nazis to help liberate their homeland.

    I compare the latter to unicorns

  • Turgon

    If what you say is true, and you are seriously telling me you made that comment in jest, then you are a far nastier piece of work than I previously took you for. My mistake it seems, as I took you for a harmless, self opinionated young man, who has still to learn his own shit also stinks.

    We live and learn.

  • Turgon

    Tell us Mickhall do you want to deny that you have said that you dislike middle class unionists because you met a doctor you disliked when on holiday?

  • villager

    “Alex Kane … suggested that the CUs could come back with either zero or 4-5 seats”

    What a joke this man is, what basis did he have for saying that, why not two seats, or three? I fail to see why anyone takes him seriously – most of what he writes is pure bilge just like this.

  • slug

    I think the reason Alex said that was the idea that this was quite a ‘high risk’ and potentially ‘high return’ kind of strategy.

  • slappymcgroundout


    I don’t hate the French. They are irrelevant to me personally.

    Re your grasp of history, you’ll need to try again. World at War? You mean the series that has an episode titled The Pacific (or something like that) and there isn’t any mention of, say, the US invasion of the Marshall Islands? We remember Roi-Namur and Kwajalein rather well. Pity that your British overlords (with the late Sir Laurence providing the voice over) forgot all about that. You can browse down here and see the murals commemorating the same at one of our national memorial graveyards:

    I would suggest that you not get your history from the worldwide socialist web. For a start, you might try reading:

    They don’t quite have your Fenian reading of history, but hey, we aren’t the Brits and they aren’t Irish. You would do well do see that the vote in Guam on the options available. Commonwealth status is in the lead, followed by statehood, with independence getting less than 10% of the vote. Our friends in American Samoa would otherwise ask that you see our reality for what it is, and leave your anti-Americanism and cheap politics at home. Yes, they’re talking to you Paddy. More specifically:

    “In reviewing the history of the United Nations, it is clear that this institution has played an important and indispensable role in helping to eradicate colonialism throughout the world. Since the inception of the United Nations in 1945, over 748 million people have thrown off the brutal yoke of colonialism. Today, 80 former colonies have become independent, sovereign countries, which now constitute two-thirds of the Member States of the U.N. This progress has been facilitated by the U.N. Trusteeship Council and the work of the U.N. Special Committee on Decolonization, the C-24.

    While this is an admirable record of accomplishment, it is disturbing that the United Nations has mistakenly assumed that the Territory of American Samoa is a colony of the United States, and that we should undergo a process of decolonization. Earlier this year, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan expressed his concern regarding the political status of American Samoa, being advised that the Special Committee should pursue a work program for American Samoa’s decolonization. I believe Secretary General Annan has been misadvised on this matter. And may I ask, Mr. Chairman, why the Special Committee has singled out only American Samoa and Pitcairn Island for consideration?

    Contrary to past criticisms of the United States by some members of the United Nation and this Special Committee, the people of American Samoa have never had their rights suppressed nor denied by the United States relative to greater self-government and self-determination. Too often, the Special Committee of 24 has been used as a platform to unfairly attack the United States to score cheap political points, and we resent American Samoa being manipulated and used for this purpose. I do not find it surprising that for reasons such as this, the U.S. State Department does not officially participate in the meetings and agenda of the Special Committee.

    As a representative of the people of American Samoa to the U.S. Congress, I can assure you that this mischaracterization of Samoa as a colony has been perceived as an outrage and insult in the Territory. The people of American Samoa treasure their relationship with the United States, are immensely proud to be part of the U.S. political family, and have not requested that our status as an U.S. Territory be changed in any way.
    The people of American Samoa have never suffered from exploitation by the United States. Politically, American Samoans exercise extensive rights of self-government, including the adoption of a territorial Constitution in 1960 and, in subsequent years, the right to elect a Governor, Legislature and Representative to the U.S. Congress. Moreover, American Samoa enacts its own laws, including the power of taxation, and controls its own borders through local immigration statutes and an immigration department. Instead of economic exploitation of American Samoa, the United States contributes significantly to American Samoa’s economic welfare through federal tax and tariff advantages, in addition to providing over 100 million dollars annually in budget assistance for local government operations and programs.

    A fact of paramount importance is that, unlike other territories, American Samoa has never been conquered, never been taken as a prize of war, and never been annexed against the will of our people. American Samoa, through the mutual and voluntary agreement of our leaders, joined the United States by Treaties of Cession negotiated and executed in 1900 and 1904.”

  • slappymcgroundout

    Almost forgot:

    By the way, my part of Oahu just so happens to have the highest concentration of Marshallese in the State of Hawaii.

    Oh, by the way, maybe you wouldn’t take so much offense if you pretended that the Orange Order was marching on 12 July to commemorate the independence of the Republic of Kiribati.

  • mickhall,
    I’d suggest you read Antony Beevor’s D-Day for a pretty accurate account of the activities of the cheese eating surrender monkeys.

  • slappymcgroundout

    Paddy, almost forgot, In The Year Of The Pig. I’ve had that on videotape since the mid-80s, so no waiting for the DVD release for me. Emile is otherwise hardly the neutral source. Ever see his Rush To Judgment? Everyone who thinks that Oliver Stone’s JFK is an original should. Not for the value of the production as history, but for proof of the proposition that humans are sloppy thinkers for the most part. Emile and Mr. Lane are no exceptions (for one brief example, the point is made that the bus driver couldn’t positively ID Oswald, problem is, a passenger did, as she had previously rented a room to Oswald, a bus transfer was taken from Oswald on his booking, and Oswald himself admitted that he was on the bus; but don’t let all that get in the way of a good conspiracy rant).

    Lastly, and the way, the part of ITYOTP that I like best? Uncle Ho: a thumbsquare of planting rice is more valuable than a thumbsquare of gold. You have to be a stupid communist economist to not appreciate that the thumbsquare of gold would have bought you more than a thumbsquare of planting rice. I’ll otherwise let 1,000,000 boat people speak to who was right and who was wrong.

  • Intel insider

    I’ve read it, I found it interesting but not the best of his books, I much preferred Berlin and Stalingrad. I would place D Day on a par with his earlier work on Spain.

    By the way old chap, my ex wife said I behaved like an ape, so I would thank you not to insult my relations and I have to admit, like Ben Gunn, I do love a lump of cheese.

    Being a little more serious, I have always felt the only disadvantage of not having suffered foreign occupation for almost 1000 years, is it has made the English incapable of placing themselves in the shoes of those who have experienced occupation within living memory. I e, we are to ready to dismiss them and highlights its downside so lightly and right them down as a character flaw which we do not suffer from.

    In some ways this is why the English have always failed to understand why the Irish lash out at us in such a violent way. It also helps explain why a dope like Blair thought he could bomb the living daylights out of Iraqis and occupy their country and they would line up and cheer with thanks.

  • Paddy

    some facts:

    1. Turgon has the Unionist laagar mentality, the same mentality and religion of white South Africans. He wants to believe that his fellow anti democrats are fighting the good fight against the savage hordes. Thus the Nazi etc analogies and the need to have proper defences.
    2. This fascist outlook is importannt when we consider that those who allowed fractures to happen in Protestant Belfast and environs (east of the Bann and north of God’s Own Country) were often assassinated or run out of twon. Think Ronnie Bunting, John Thornley etc.
    3. You obviously support the killing of the yellow man by America to acheive America’s manifest destiny. Given that you stand on stolen land, it is not surprising that you sing yoour imperialist American tune.Your soldiers grabbed Cuba and the Philippines from Spain, turned Cuba into a brothel and massacred hundreds of thousands of Pinays to impose your Protestantr religion and ethos on that accursed place. You killed millions of Vietnamese and took time off from that to fuck five year old girls and boys in places like Sublic Bay and Olongapo. We cpuld go on about hawaii and other places you grabbed. You are an imperialist from the nastiest imperialist country the world has even known. You outBrit the Brits.
    4. And you and your can stick your plastic shamrocks up your ass/arse. James Connolly said St Patrick drove the snakes out of Irealnd and that they went to Boston, where they became Irish Americans. Killers are killers and plastic shamrocks don’t help.
    5. Turgon has revealed his true colours here. The mighty TUV Nazis are on ah holy crusade to preserve democracy from the aboriginal hordes intent on asserting their human rights. Ian Paisley, the Jackal and Johnny Adair meet Hollywood.