Politics and the Terminal Decline of the Catholic Church

Let me put my cards of the table, I am an agnostic. I have no idea about how the universe was created nor who or what created it, to me only a god could answer these questions. I think it is rather silly for humans to attempt to answer them as those who do have ‘faith’ do.

I am not a Dawkinist nor an atheistic, maybe people of faith are correct. For me however these faiths are just another set of political ideologies. In the most part I appose them but I do respect people’s religions, their faith, and their freedom to worship.

The political power of the Catholic Church in Ireland, present since it filled the vacuum left by the fall of the Gaelic order and subsequent haemorrhaging of culture, has been undeniable. It has been in my view a legitimate reason for unionists to appose integration into an all Ireland state and it has certainly damaged that cause.

The ever continuing child abuse scandals and the depth of the cover-up continue to wound the Catholic Church. I know one under thirty who attends neither mass nor sacraments, except for those sacraments which are primarily cultural.

These young people do have faith, but not in the Catholic Church. That has been destroyed by the sexual and physical abuse of children, and its cover-up, the laundries, the open cruelty of some of the clergy etc. etc. etc. A chairde, it was / is more than a few bad apples, let us forget that myth and accept our collective guilt.

In recent years older people of faith have clutched my arm and looked at me with emotional eyes and claimed that they didn’t know. Horseshit – I do not believe you. I knew. I knew never to get within grabbing distance of a priest.

Terminal decline? Two years ago I would have said no, they will make it. Now? No. They are fucked, I do not wish to put it any other way. The establishment will let them off but the people will make them pay. As in Italy, France and Spain there will always be a few who go to mass, but just a few, round our way we normally call them ‘fascisti’.

In my view many of the religious orders should be banned, property should be seized, schools and hospitals should be brought under the direct control of the state in the Republic (in the North the banning of our culture for state education leaves one in a bit of a dilema), bishops should answer for their crimes in the courts. These things are unlikely ever to come to pass however.

Let us look at the politics however for the realities of child abuse are unprintable, the decline of the Catholic Church is extremely unlikely in my view to have any effect of unionist opposition to a united Ireland, forget about that one.

But let us not forget that no organisation collaborated more with British rule that the Catholic Church. The Church served its own ends, never the people. I have never before quoted the Bull McCabe but how many priests died of hunger in the Drochshaoil?

Who more that the Catholic Church of shop keeper’s sons defended more privilege and inequality in society?

Let us not forget also that no organisation worked harder to destroy Ireland’s culture and to work for anglicisation than the Catholic Church, telling people it was a sin to speak their own language, telling old people they would go to hell if they could not confess in English. A glance at Gaelic folklore or literature would demonstrate the distrust for the priesthood felt by ordinary people.

I say confidently that the terminal decline of the Catholic Church in Ireland is of no small disadvantage to the cause of the Irish nation and the working classes.

This morning I write without balance nor fairness. I make no apologies for that for none is deserved. I may attempt the defence at a later date.

  • Panic, These Ones Likes It Up Em.

    I shall not mourm the demise of the catholic church in Ireland. Would the demise of Fianna Fáil be any loss either. They are afterall the political party that co-operated with the catholic church while much of its nasty activities were taking place.

  • Brian Walker

    Gael gan Náire, A real lamentation here that commands respect, even if it harks back to an era of Gaelic purity that can’t be recaptured if it ever existed. I don’t want to quibble but I don’t think history is linear in the sense you imply. The gap after “the destruction of Gaelic culture” was surely filled – eventually – by a largely Catholic bourgeosie that hled diverse views on religion, politics and culture, brilliantly captured in its time in Portrait of the Artist. Absolutely true during the Home Rule era as in Poland up to 1980, the church was a nation substitute. But why, unlike Poland did clerical power actually increase after independence? Did it become for many years the main focus of unity after the civil war?

  • file

    I would urge all Catholics not to confuse faith in God with the actions of the hierarchy of the church. Also, I would urge people not to boycott Mass, but to boycott the collection plate at Mass, and to continue to do so until the hierarchy take appropriate steps that convince us they have understood the seriousness and awfulness of the problem – steps like suspending the use of altar boys/girls until we feel priests can be trusted again; allowing for married priests and for women priests; all the bishops involved asking (under canon law) whether they have the support of the people in their diocese and resigning if they don’t – ie hold a referendum in each diocese.

  • Gael gan Náire

    Brian,

    “brilliantly captured in its time in Portrait of the Artist.”

    An English language book by an English speaker. I am offered a view from a Gaelic point of view. I am not attempting a balanced historical view.

    That “Catholic bourgeosie” and the Church could be seen as one and the same, see if you wish a literary insight Caisleàn Oir by O Grianna.

    After years of attempting to expound rational I have found that occasionally the most rational thing to do is to shoot for the hip.

  • Ultonain

    As a non catholic I find it hard to imagine how anyone cuold continue attending the catholic church with what has been revealed over the last few years.

    As far as reaction, if the church was at all penitant then actions speak louder than words. IN the bible when a king wanted to atone on behalf of the sins of a nation he shaved his head, tore his kingly garments and went around in “sack cloth and ashes”

    If the catholic church as an institution is truely sorry (and I personally doubt it is as an institution) then all priests and the religious should be ordered to shave their heads, dressin a form of penitant habits and walk the streets of Ireland showing thier penitance.

    Otherwise all we will have is words, easily said quickly forgotten

  • Padraig

    People from the Emperor Nero, to Oliver Cromwell, from Napoleon Buonaparte to Joe Stalin have all celebrated wakes for the Catholic Church, rejoicing that it was safely buried.

    They are all dead and the Catholic Church, the Church Founded by Christ motors happilly on stronger in this world than ever.

    and when the dust has settled on this and all the the superficial , snide talking heads on this forum have worms coming out there ears the Catholic Church will still motor on long after their chattering tongues are stilled.

    Those who do learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Some do not seem to have studied history at all. As I say, superficial nonsense.

  • John East Belfast

    Although I am instinctively against enquiries going over the past in general I think the issues here are too important and the NI Assembly should be pressing for a full enquiry north of the border.

    If there are 46 Priests and 4 Archbishops involved in the Dublin Diocese alone then we need to be asking questions

    This would provide a voice for any victims and hopefully bring justice and punishment to the guilty.
    As a unionist I would also be interested to find out if the Stormont regime and the RUC adopted a hands off approach.

    I would fully support our Assembly opening this up to full scrutiny.

  • Ultonian

    Padraig,

    I’m amazed that you believe the only one that have lessons to learn and those criticising the Catholic church. As far as history tell us the corruption and abuse of power by the Catholic church in Ireland has been disgraceful, if you wish this church to continue on reformed then you are probably in a minority of one.

    As for the rest of us sane people we want the catholic church held to account, we want it reformed and if it is not willing or able to do so then i hope it does wither onthe vine – for the sake of Christ and His Gospel

  • Different Drummer

    I lost all faith in the church after the priest who abused me from I was 4yo until I was 18 refused me mass after I “came out” as a practicing homosexual.

  • daisy

    “superficial nonsense”

    The rape of children and the cover up of it by those in authority who preached morality from the pulpit is superficial nonsense? Twisted logic in extremis.

  • Padraig

    It is one thing to criticized the priests and Bishops involved in all this. The good God alone they deserve to be criticized and more.

    But this article does several other things as to several other posters.

    Firstly. A small group of Irish Bishops and priests is not the ‘Catholic Church’. The current population of the Catholic Church comprises some 1 billion people, not a small group of dog collared Irish perverts and their minders.

    Secondly. The presumption that this forum could elicit fair and objectivel comments on this subject is deeply flawed. A very large number of people writing on this forum are of the Unionist community. A community of deep anti Catholic instincts , bigotry hate and hostility for the Catholic Church {and Catholics} that has been carefully fostered by generations of our very own Klu Klux Klan the Orange Order and generations of mindless ranting preachers such as the Mad Doctor, Paisley.

    I expect nothing from a pig from a fart. I expect nothing from an Orangemam but an anti Catholic rant.

    Thats why I don’t think this forum is qualified to comment on this subject. It justs feeds bigotry. No more than I would go to the Klu Klux Klan and ask for comments on the average intelligence of the Black Man.

    As I say..all I ever expect from a pig is a grunt.

  • Ultonian

    The comments on this site are open and fair game for constructive critism but you have failed to do that padraig.

    As for the Church being a Billion strong, I do have to ask – if in a civilised country with supposedly controls in place, laws, police etc the Catholic church allowed its priests to rape children and abuse them, then covre it up – why would you suppose that in countries without such structure would catholic missionaries – many from ireland behave any different?

    The sad thing remains, that when their is criticism of the Catholic church the defenders quickly start screaming bigotry, throwing sand in the air about the orange order and the KKK. The facts remain, a catholic judge in a catholic country condemned the church for its abuse of children and abuse of its power. She condemned the princes of the church for hidding and covering up the sins of the priests.

    This is not bigotry or sectarian it is a grave inditment on the church and trying to shift the blame or the emphasis elsewhere is disgraceful.

    Answer the issues – Padraig what would you have done with the priests who abused children and the priests, bishops, archbishops and cardinal who covered it up?

    Answer don’t rant

  • foreign correspondent

    Tá an ceart agat, a Ghaeil gan Náire.
    Tá ré na hEaglaise Caitlicí in Eirinn thart, agus mura bhfuil, ba chóir go mbeadh.

  • Padraig

    As Jesus said, away and take the log out of your own Orange eye beofore you try to take the Splinter out of the eye of the Catholic Church.

    Unionists have won a name for infamy all over the Civilised world for their ranting hate and generations of mistreatment of their fellow Catholic Christians. You’re very leader ‘Doctor Paisley’ is a by- word across the globe for his roaring, spitting sectarian venom, yet you troop out in your tens and hundreds of thousands to vote for him and to applaud him. This because he has the courage to speak out loud the hate you whisper in secret.

    I will take no lessons from Unionists or Orangemen or Apostate Catholics who cater for you.

    Dismantle the log in your eye those Protestant Nazis the Orange Order and the Black and Purple Institutions then come to me and talk to me about my Church.

    I will take no lessons in morality from a crowd of Orange bigots.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy C

    at the time thousands of members of the Anglican community which is in communion with the church of england are looking at leaving their community and joing the Catholic Church and be under the authoritiy of the Pope…this article seems to be a response and a knee jerk reaction to this movement. I mean…just think how people in the orange order must feel…they swear an oath to the queen (head of the church of england) the orange order members want to see the growth of the queen’s church and the orange order members have an unhealthy negative fixtation to the Pope and Catholic Church. Now with thousands of ANglicans looking at ways to come home to the Catholic Church….this article and the report of the demise of the Catholic Church looks rather foolish to say the least.

  • Padraig

    [i]Answer the issues – Padraig what would you have done with the priests who abused children and the priests, bishops, archbishops and cardinal who covered it up?[/i]

    I would put them in prison. As I would put Ian Paisley and all the Masters of the Loyal Institutions who stirred up such hate hear and all the Protestant Bishops and Moderators who stood buy and watched while Catholics here were treated as serfs.

    I would criminalise the Orange Order for the shower of bigots they are and they could share the same cell with the pervert priests and Protestant clergy who collaborated in the insane anti Catholic hate that was institutionalised here.

    As I say splinter and log.

  • Patrick

    So to summarise Padraig, you would lock up a whole lot of Protestants to sort out the child abuse in the Catholic church.

    You’re weird.

  • daisy

    padraig has provided one of the most obtuse arguments in defence of the rapists I’ve read yet.

    “Now with thousands of ANglicans looking at ways to come home to the Catholic Church….this article and the report of the demise of the Catholic Church looks rather foolish to say the least. ”

    Anti-reform Anglicans have found a natural home in the catholic church. Time for liberal catholics to look elsewhere.

  • Padraig

    The really weird thing is to be a totally unconstructed Orange bigot, not to be aware of it and to think you can give morality lessons to your Catholic fellow Christians after having given nothing but the back of your hand to them for centuries.

    That’s what I find weird.

  • Patrick

    No doubt you do Padraig. No doubt you do. Because in your strange little world it’s all about the Proddies.

  • shane

    Gael gan Naire, you let yourself down when you get into rants like this. If you had done a bit of scholary or historical research, you would have come to more tempered conclusions.

    The Catholic Church in Ireland changed drastically in nature from the 18th century to the 19th. With the establishment of the Royal College of St Patrick (ie “Maynooth”) the Church was moulded into the Anglicized culture of the dominant Ascendancy. The human distinctive Catholicism of the Irish was to be progressively destroyed by this development. This seminary was established and funded by the ministers of the Crown, giving them power to shape the development of Catholicism in Ireland. With the collapse of Gaelic social and cultural conventions, the Irish simply adopted the Victorian values which were prevalent throughout the UK at the time, heavily influenced by the Weslyan Evangelical revival which laid stress on ‘moral reform’. Even at the time of Daniel O’Connell his rake of illegitimate children passed without comment, but when Parnell signed a divorce paper (much less immoral) the Catholic Church, along with the British Nonconformist Churches, were indignant. The change of culture was the predominant factor in this.

    The collapse of Gaelic culture is multifaceted.
    You accuse the “Catholic Church” (as if it were a monolithic entity) of working to ‘destroy Ireland’s culture’. This is a rather unbalanced charge for it does not distinguish between Victorian Catholicism and the more distintive Irish Gaelic Catholicism which preceeded it. You only need compare the more joyful (Irish language) Kirwan’s catechism to the stigmatizing Penny catechism to see this development. Immediately preceeding the Maynooth era, the Catholic seminary in exile at Louvain made a massive contribution to Gaelic literature (the Annals of the Four Masters, for example) and indeed the first Irish dictionary were composed at Louvain, which had the first Irish printing press. The first Irish (and indeed, vernacular in Europe) poem is written a Monk, and the illumanted manuscripts, round towers, monasteries are all an integral, and wonderful, component of Irish patrimony. The ancient Irish law scripts are only available to us because monastic scribes copied them down. Irish was also spread throughout Pictland because it was (along with Latin) the language used by the Church.

    I can understand and appreciate the motives behind this rant. You are attempting to say to Protestants, who may see the Irish language as a Catholic endeavour, “hey look, we hate Catholicism just as much as you do, have no fear of us, Catholicism is as anti-us as it is you”. This is an understandable motive, it’s just a shame you have to distort historical fact to suit your own agenda.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Stop going at each other. THESE BISHOPS SHOULD ALL GO TO JAIL OR BE EXILED FROM IRELAND FOREVER

    They are responsible for the pyshological torture/sexual abuse of every single kid who was put at risk when they decided to cover up for a priest. In my eyes they are just as responsible as the physical perpetrators. Absolute cowards, hypocrits, and liars. SHAME

    I stopped giving any money to the Church years ago but how anyone could justify giving them money now is beyond me.

  • Fabianus

    Gael

    “I do respect people’s religions, their faith, and their freedom to worship.”

    I can understood your respecting somebody’s freedom to worship, but why should you respect their religions and faith?

    Speaking for myself I find it impossible to respect either. And why should any thinking person do so? Should I respect Scientology as well? Or Satanism?

    All religion is manmade nonsense. Anyone who disagrees will have to prove to me it isn’t. So while I may respect the people who profess it, I have absolute contempt for the sad (and dangerous) rubbish itself, because I see where it leads to.

    Brian is right. The bishops should be jailed. Why won’t they be? Oh, because we must respect them as Men of God.

    Pass the sickbag.

  • GGN

    Shane,

    I think I know a little of the history of the Gaelic literature, but today I found it irrelvent.

    I was writting about an organisation which allowed hundreds of its members to rape kids not the annals of the Four Masters nor Keating.

    I may at some point write a defence or write more with more balance, but not today.

    “This is an understandable motive, it’s just a shame you have to distort historical fact to suit your own agenda.”

    You have misunderstood my agenda. It has nothing to do with the Irish language.

    “more tempered conclusions.”

    Ask yourself the question what that would be if we were speaking of anyother instition.

  • shane

    GGN, you are not consistent when you say “It has nothing to do with the Irish language”. That is demonstrably false, for you took a dig in your OP at the Catholic Church in this regard:

    “Let us not forget also that no organisation worked harder to destroy Ireland’s culture and to work for anglicisation than the Catholic Church, telling people it was a sin to speak their own language, telling old people they would go to hell if they could not confess in English. A glance at Gaelic folklore or literature would demonstrate the distrust for the priesthood felt by ordinary people. ”

    That is what I was responding to.

  • DifferentDrummer

    Can we really expect people to have to be happy?
    Let’s look at a stranger!!

  • Intelligence Insider

    I can hardly say I’m shocked!How much can I think about what a dirty person you are!

  • GGN

    Intelligence Insider,

    I do not understand your point.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Shane

    Can you recommend any reading to learn more about the changing role of the Church in Ireland throughout the 18th and 19th centuries?

  • M Ali

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1201/mulliganf.html

    Birds do it
    Boxer do
    Even UVF killers do it

    Why pick on priests when everyone bar us seems to be buggering little boys.

  • Fabianus

    M Ali

    We don’t “pick on” priests. Priests pick on children.

    We’re particularly outraged because priests appear to be able to have their wicked way with kids unhindered. Simply because they’re protected by an overarching hierarchy stretching all the way to Rome. So if an individual rapes a child he’s not hung out to dry but welcomed back into the fold and given a duty elsewhere. Or so it has been. I have no assurance from the pope that things are any way different now. In fact, his unholiness has been rather cagey so far.

    I think most of us who grew up in a Protestant environment are appalled by this closing of ranks. If, say, a Presbyterian minister rapes a child then he’s virtually on his own to face the music. The RC priest by contrast can rely on the protection of his bishop, archbishop, cardinal, and pope.

    I think that’s one important reason most of us are disgusted by the Dublin report (at least those of us who aren’t raping children).

  • shane

    Brian, it’s really an underdeveloped area, largely because Irish Catholics, for understable reasons, liked to stress a seamless continuity in the nature of the Irish Church. For a long time Irish Catholics thought they had one of the oldest national churches in Europe whereas it was really one of the youngest. However the Aubane Historical Society have published an interesting book “The Origins of Irish Catholic Nationalism” (which shows some of the dictomy in thought between the humanistic Gaelic Catholicism and its successor) and the tract “The Rise Of Papal Power In Ireland”. If you go into the National Library in Dublin you can access dusty old catechisms and church prescriptions.

  • shane

    This has also been identified by church historians in other English speaking nations. The Irish essentially refounded Catholicism in the English speaking world, and it’s hardly coincidental that the child abuse scandals are so concentrated in English speaking countries, especially cities like Boston (traditionally the most Irish city in America) where the Church was in every essence an ethnic Irish club. Catholicism, in its ‘accidentals’ and nature, was always quite different in Spain, Italy and the Latin countries. In Charles Morris’s history of Catholicism in the United States, American Catholic, he writes of the Irish Church in its invention in the Victorian era as “one of the most ragtag national churches in Europe, Morris writes, “post-Cullen, it was one of the most unified, rigorous, enthusiastic and militant branches of Catholicism in the world.

    At the same time, it was one of the most hierarchical and clericalist, with priests and bishops who were invested with nearly-unchallengeable authority, and who became accustomed to extraordinary deference from civil authorities. And on sexual matters, it was a far more puritanical Catholicism than, say, the Mediterranean or Latin American varieties, or for that matter than the Gaelic Catholicism it had superseded.”

  • Fabianus

    The leader article in today’s Irish Times is strongly critical of the Taoiseach’s cowardly kow-towing to the Vatican.

    It opines that

    If the Vatican is indeed to be regarded simply as a foreign state, then it is a state that has colluded in the commission of vile crimes against Irish citizens. Those citizens have a right to expect their Government to mount at the very least a strong formal protest such as the withdrawal of our Ambassador to the Holy See.

    I see no reason why the Vatican shouldn’t be declared a rogue state to be placed alongside North Korea and Iran to name but two. If they wish to hide behind state status then they should certainly be treated as a state.

  • Conor

    When i was young there was a saying in my area – “first we get rid of the brits then we’ll get rid of the priests”. Wouldn’t that be nice?

  • Fabianus

    Conor

    When you get rid of the priests I’ll be happy to go. Deal?

  • Greenflag

    Gael gan naire ,

    ‘”Terminal decline? Two years ago I would have said no, they will make it. Now? No. They are fucked, I do not wish to put it any other way. The establishment will let them off but the people will make them pay.’

    One would hope so . I feel sorry for the genuine and decent clergy and nuns who over decades did contribute to the education and care of many Irish people both at home and abroad but I feel no sorrow for the Roman Catholic Church’s decline as an institution in Irish life . It’s even more obvious now than ever that the culture of the cover up is endemic in that institution. we should never forget that the RC church is not a democratic institution and we have seen how even those institutions which are supposed to be ‘democratic’have been and some still are masters in the art of smoking mirrors and truth avoidance all for the purposes of self preservation at all costs ?

    As an atheist I have no interest in the survival of any church least of all the RC church, but for ‘believers’perhaps now is the time for an Irish Church ‘reformation’ ?. Those of a religious mindset might want to consider the establishment of an Irish Reformed Church independent of the Vatican and Canterbury and with the ‘members ‘having the right to ‘fire’their clergy and hold them accountable for çriminal conduct .

    And what exactly did all those clergy and bishops believe in exactly when they were abusing the children of the poor (predominantly) ?? Did they believe that their God would forgive them ? Or did they believe that they would never have to face a non existent God ?

  • Greenflag

    Shane ,

    At the same time, it was one of the most hierarchical and clericalist, with priests and bishops who were invested with nearly-unchallengeable authority, and who became accustomed to extraordinary deference from civil authorities. And on sexual matters, it was a far more puritanical Catholicism than, say, the Mediterranean or Latin American varieties, or for that matter than the Gaelic Catholicism it had superseded.””

    Nail on head there .It’s interesting that in the non anglophone countries where the RC Church is strong e.g Germany , France , Italy , Spain etc there has been a much lower incidence of abuse of minors which points to the Irish Catholic church as being even an anomaly within the wider church ?

    As you say the combination of political power with a particular church is historically instrumental in leading to circumstances which can lead to the roles of Caesar and Christ becoming confused to both’s detriment . Just look at the ‘successful’NI State 1920 to the present or the even worse example of the batshit crazy mullahs and ayatollahs of Iran and Saudi Arabia etc ?

    Separation of Church and State is not just a good idea . It’s a prerequisite for any democracy worthy of the name .

  • Glencoppagagh

    “It’s interesting that in the non anglophone countries where the RC Church is strong e.g Germany , France , Italy , Spain etc there has been a much lower incidence of abuse of minors which points to the Irish Catholic church as being even an anomaly within the wider church?”

    In southern Europe, celibacy is generally interpreted as simply being unmarried and it is accepted that priests have mistresses. Only in Ireland and countries influenced by Irish clergy, it seems, is celibacy understood to mean total abstinence from sexual relations with an adult female.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Shane

    Thank you.

  • Brian MacAodh

    “As you say the combination of political power with a particular church is historically instrumental in leading to circumstances which can lead to the roles of Caesar and Christ becoming confused to both’s detriment . Just look at the ‘successful’NI State 1920 to the present or the even worse example of the batshit crazy mullahs and ayatollahs of Iran and Saudi Arabia etc ?”

    Muhammed was Caesar and Christ during his bloody life.

  • Greenflag

    ,In southern Europe, celibacy is generally interpreted as simply being unmarried and it is accepted that priests have mistresses.’

    So does mean that Pope Benny and the Curia are supplied with mistresses as perks of the job or does this perk only accrue to the lower orders of the clergy ? In my understanding of human nature if the lower orders are having too much of a good thing then you can expect their betters to be having even more of the same 😉

    It appears that the Irish post the Norman invasion took the word of the Popes too literally or perhaps some social scientist out there will see in clerical celibacy a type of population control which kept the Irish lower middle classes from becoming too numerous and thus putting at risk the established social and economic order ?

    Celibacy is an unnatural state and full marks to that RC congregation in Donegal who rose to their feet and clapped their hands when their local curate informed them from the pulpit that he was going to leave the priesthood and marry his ‘girl/woman friend 😉

    If enough of them did that there would’nt be a priest in the country in a year and you might see a bishop or two doing a days work for the first time in their lives 😉

  • Greenflag

    ‘Muhammed was Caesar and Christ during his bloody life.’

    Which is why the Middle East from being the cradle of civilisation prior to Mohammed’s arrival has now become the cesspit of intolerance and backwardness.

    Someday the people of this region will wake up and realise that the Ayatollahs are dragging them backwards into poverty and ignorance . You never know even members of the DUP and TUV might catch on too 😉 although that might take another century or two ?

  • John Central Belfast

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8393463.stm

    Pity this fat church elder is not a Catholic, as John East Belfast’s granny would have wanred us about him.

    “Let me have men about me who are fat”.

  • Fabianus

    See, this is why I’m not a member of the judiciary.

    If I were, I’d order Mr McConaghy to be remanded, given a normal amount of food per day until the fat fuck’s weight was reduced to humanlike proportions. Then I’d send his sorry ass to jail for the term he richly deserves.

    But as I say I’m not qualified to pass judgement in such complicated matters. Let’s all remember the name of the judge who seemingly placed the important matter of the fatty’s self-induced obesity above welfare of the women he abused: David Smyth.

    Anybody know how much he weighs?

  • Fr McGee

    I would imagine more than 99% of the posts here are pure rot, done by those obsessed with the men of violence (the cordite/Mary Lou turn on)

    The other 1% or less make the occasional trip here worthwhile. Irish Catholicism is a recent invention as most educated people should know. It is a product of Catholic, bog Ireland as many of you would like to deny. You are the Catholic Churhc. You who never did anything for anybody except print your screeds here.

    To paraphrase Gerry Adams: some things were wrong. Get over it. The aspiring middle classes, who send their kids to Jesuit schools for connections will.

    The Irish Times is a Unionist paper at heart. If not, why does it still print Church (of Ireland) notices?

    And for the Presbyterian sectarians trying to milk this: everyone rapes children. That is why your government is tying up your UK in legal knots. If you are to have any connection with children or vulnerable adults, you must be vetted by the cops, who are no strangers to buggery themselves.

    The Afghans have marching songs, comparing the bums of little Afghans to over ripe melons. The Greks were notorious and none more so than Socrates.

    Who amongst us has not heard of the English public school system, where rum, sodomy and the sash founded an empire (of perverts).

    I will offer up 10 mass for the dim wits amongst you. rest assured that the CVurch will bury its enemies.

    You people are obsessed with reformed gangsters forming a council in NI. The Church meanwhile has Poland, Africa and SE Asia, with China opening up.

    Ireland and the Irish. Who needs them? Rven Hollywood makes Irish popes out as mass murderers.

    Stick to juvenile Church bashing and Swastika scrawling.