“The Taoiseach and I agreed that there can be no pre-conditions…”

Martin McGuinness has fired another shot over Peter Robinson’s boughs. Following a meeting in Offaly with Taoiseach Brian Cowen the deputy First Minister said:

“The Taoiseach and I agreed that there can be no pre-conditions on the transfer of policing and justice powers. What is required is a date to be agreed prior to Christmas for the transfer to take place and to take effect early in the New Year. “

Responding to Peter Robinson’s demands for a re-configuring of the workings of the institutions Mr. McGuinness expressed his concerns at what he describes as “the failure on the part of the DUP to embrace equality, partnership and power-sharing arrangements.”

  • Pete Baker

    I see Martin McGuinness is speaking on behalf of others again.

    But what does the actual Taoiseach think is required?

    Oh, and the “community confidence necessary for the Assembly to request the devolution of criminal justice and policing from the British Government”, however defined by either party, is not a pre-condition.

    As Martin well knows.

  • igor

    The problems Martin is that the DUPs don’t really care what Cowan thinks on this. They claim there is a commitment to the devolution but not a to a date and to get a date they want concessions from you to boost ‘confidence in the community’. You failed to tie this down in the negotiations.

    This is politics – it may not be nice politics but its exactly the politics you played with the Brits for many years, so please don’t cry about it now. They even seem to have stolen the exact phraseology that you used to use when wringing our concession sin return for your support for PSNI (except in cases of crimes by your members or former comrades of course)

    On the other hand if there was the firm commitment to devolution and a date that you say there was, pray just show us when and where and what was agreed. The fact that you haven’t done this so far seems to suggest you didn’t get the agreement you have sold to the flock. Whoops!

  • “over Peter Robinson’s boughs”

    Leave it to Special Branch 😉

  • Marty McG

    Rather appropriate where Marty the gunslinger met Biffo….OFFALY…..home of the Big Ignorant Fu**er from Offaly…

  • frustrated democrat

    Nev

    A vision of PR on maneuvers in the woods with his beret comes to mind………

  • picador

    It seems that next weekend the Ligoniel Walkers ABOD club are set to walk past Ardoyne shops with the Shankill Star Flute Band in tow. Shankill Star FB are ‘dedicated to the memory’ of UVF Brian Robinson who was killed by undercover British Army members on 2nd Setember 1989 shortly after he murdered 41 year old Patrick McKenna, an innocent civilian, at Ardoyne shops.

    Is someone deliberately trying to raise the heat on the marching issue?

  • Padraig

    It’s a bit like watching a huge circus tent falling down, grandly.

    Unionism is irredmediably sectarian. Forget about it.

    Peter Robinson and his badly domestically abused Mr’s will have to shift to Scotland

    Its like trying to convince the Klu Klux Klan to take up stamp collecting

  • DC

    You know this was all put in to place over Christmas 2006 it is now approaching Christmas 2009.

    Now, that’s 3 years and remember this:

    And in life all you have is a certain amount of time.

    What’s 3 years wasted whenever Peter Robinson has been an MP for 30; now if that isn’t an elected dictatorship along with Adams et al then what is?

    Both are in power now, McGuinness took a risk saying “traitors” but Robinson is too vain and unionism too fractured to maintain the votes he once held before coming leader of the DUP; as the European elections have shown the vote share has dropped and will drop further as a result of power-sharing and further compromises in government.

    That’s what happens when you opt for government of sorts.

    But Robinson has to do it, deal and share power and policing – that’s what he’s paid big money for – not to do nothing.

    It can’t be forward one step then back on the other. Make your mind up time Robinson, for it’s surely time.

  • NCM

    So if this whole thing crumbles, then what?

  • jim@aol.ie

    Sf are preparing the ground for a possible pull out. What nationalist can blame them when the leader of Ireland agrees that no preconditions can be laid down for the transfer? This is bolstering support for an eventuall pull out if the DUP dont play ball. And its the Dup who have more to fear from such a scenario. Has the DUP made a rod for its own back here? Is it really just still a party of protest and not government?

  • Pete Baker

    “What nationalist can blame them when the leader of Ireland agrees that no preconditions can be laid down for the transfer?”

    Let the Taoiseach speak for himself.

    Rather than the second-in-commmand of half of the semi-detached polit-bureau of Northern Ireland.

  • joe@iol.ie

    I don’t think you’ve really disproved what I”ve said ther Pete. You’ve responded with a little bile, as is expected. But you haven’t addressed the central point that this wasn’t an exercise for the benefit of unionists. Who incidentally regard british prime ministers as irrelevany, nay traitors when it suits. This is about isolating the DUP, its about winning nationalist votes and preparing the ground for an early election. Now Cowen has essentially supported the SF positiotn. the DUP, widely seen as being irrational and disorganised and effectively pandering to jim allister are seen as being deal welchers. So in an election, SF have secured the implicit support of the Irish Prime Minister for their position. Whose support has the DUP secured? And who has more to fear from an election? I’d hazard a guess its the DUP. Still, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

  • Crow

    Robinson will really show Allister who knows what’s best for NI when he refuses to devolve P&J leading to the collapse of the Assembly. Afterall he can always cite that it was clear to everyone that it didn’t have public, unionist, DUP, TUV support.

  • Peter Doran

    Gearing up for an Assembly Election early in 2010 makes a lot of sense to the SF HQ when their would be competitors for the nationalist vote in the SDLP will continue to implode after the fall out from the so called leadership contest. X Factor without the talent!

  • file

    Again, the term ‘community confidence’ has to be shown for what it is, ie ‘unionist community confidence’.

  • joe@aol.ie

    Exactly Crow. Its the political myopia of unionism. They don’t like the deal they signed two years ago. What they gonna do? Are they saying the deal is dead and the agreement they reached is a bad one? It’s not SF its the deal? How are they gonna get a `voluntary coalition’? What nationalist party is going to volunteer? (and still expect to get votes four years later). The sectarianism and bigotry of political unionism is leading them up another blind alley. Sure that’s unionism for ya. Can’t see the woods for the trees. Let’s sit back and watch.

  • LURIG

    I increasingly get the impression that the DUP has already made the decision to ditch powersharing but is working on a strategy to ensure that Sinn Fein is the one who walks first and consequently takes ALL the blame and fallout. There is NO doubt that the TUV has connected with a substantial sectarian knuckledragging rump of fundamental Unionist dinosaurs and they are very capable of holing the DUP below the waterline. In such a scenario it’s LOSE LOSE for the DUP and they know it. The TUV has the potential to divide Unionism into 3 camps thus allowing Sinn Fein to become the largest party and a Nationalist as First Minister. The DUP can see this nightmare before them and are prepared to jump ship rather than be part of such an eventuality. That is why Robinson and the DUP are playing such hard ball; it’s part of the plan. They have started to totally renage on the GFA and St. Andrews Agreement and are determined to wind Sinn Fein up so much that it is the Shinners who collapse the Executive and not the DUP. Thus the DUP can go back to their electorate, dirty dozen, lost hard core vote and claim a Unionist victory. It really is NO surprise. ANY political agreement was ALWAYS going to fall on the old hoary chestnut of Unionist intransigence and it’s total sectarian bigotry. The Executive will collapse about February.

  • jdaly

    “SF have secured the implicit support of the Irish Prime Minister for their position.” joe@aol.ie

    Joe, do you really think that the support of Brian Cowen will count for much in the 6 counties given the state of his own state? In the context of an election how will S.F. explain all their failures to date whether on the Irish language issue, education or policing ? They can’t continue claiming on one hand that the GFA was a marvellous deal and on the other hand that nothing has changed and unionism still rules.

  • joe@iol.ie

    jdaly, I dont think northern nationalists are disciphering Cowen’s support in terms of rising unmeployment in the south, plungind property prices, or bond issues. I have to say. What is significant is that SF, for many SDLP inclinded nationalists a formerly terrorist supporting group, now have Cowen implicitly supporting their position and inter-alia condeming the DUP for their intransignence. In terms of the agreement, I think you’ll find its the DUP who want to abandon it, not SF. Its robinson calling for a new deal, not SF. In terms of delays on policing ,language and equality, that doesn’t detract from SFs position. It enhances it, exceptt obviously in the eyes of dissidents, who unlike Allister don’t have a political base. BTW, im not an SF supporter. Im merely pointing out the political reality of unionism’s current trajectory.

  • LURIG

    Furthermore the Parades Commission’s determination on next Saturday’s Apprentice Boys march past the Ardoyne shops will give a clue as to how the current political wind blows and where the Establishment’s symathies lie. The parade is to be led by a Loyalist band who commemmorate the UVF murderer Brian Robinson. Robinson of course shot a totally innocent Catholic man Paddy McKenna at the Ardoyne shops in September 1989 before being killed himself by British undercover forces. If this parade is given the go ahead it is not rocket science that there is bound to be a reaction from North Belfast Nationalists as this will be the official endorsement of Loyalist paramilitaries celebrating the murder of an innocent man. Will DUP and Unionist pressure on the Parades Commission allow this to happen?

  • Frank

    ‘It seems that next weekend the Ligoniel Walkers ABOD club are set to walk past Ardoyne shops with the Shankill Star Flute Band in tow. Shankill Star FB are ‘dedicated to the memory’ of UVF Brian Robinson who was killed by undercover British Army members on 2nd Setember 1989 shortly after he murdered 41 year old Patrick McKenna, an innocent civilian, at Ardoyne shops.’

    quelle surprise!!

    The Orange order/Apprentice boys main UVF terrorist memorial band in Ligionel invites another UVF terrorist band from the Shankill Road (named after the loyalist terrorist who murdered a Catholic man at Ardoyne shops)to march past the exact spot where he was murdered by the UVF!!!

    Would the Apprentice boys & Orange order support a republican parade past the former spot of Frizzell’s Fish Shop by the Thomas Begley republican memorial flute band?(if one existed)

    Can you really blame anyone for throwing stones or blocking the route of the loyalist orders and their terrorist band parade next Saturday?

    Or perhaps that’s the idea of those involved and their spokesperson Tommy Cheevers(who took part in the guard of honour flanking the coffin at the 1986 funeral of murdered UVF commander John Bingham).

  • shorty

    “It seems that next weekend the Ligoniel Walkers ABOD club are set to walk past Ardoyne shops with the Shankill Star Flute Band in tow. Shankill Star FB are ‘dedicated to the memory’ of UVF Brian Robinson who was killed by undercover British Army members on 2nd Setember 1989 shortly after he murdered 41 year old Patrick McKenna, an innocent civilian, at Ardoyne shops.

    Is someone deliberately trying to raise the heat on the marching issue?
    Posted by picador on Nov 28, 2009 @ 11:45 PM”

    Let’s, unfortunately. call a spade a spade. The DUP and others want one march to take place every year without fail – its not in Ardoyne, Ormeau, Dunloy etc.

    Its Garvaghy Road.

    They have put it on the political agenda: they have unwittingly proved that a so-called church service is a political parade. Remember Paisley’s words at Drumcree about “the settling day” .

    Imagine the message an Orange march along Garvaghy would send out – putting Taigs in their place again.

    Brendan might have left the Shinners, but the people of the G Rd still stand by Brendan.

    PS submit word is remember

  • John Daly

    jdaly: please stop posting with jdaly@yahoo.com. You’re using my email address by accident and I keep getting all kinds of email from this website. Thank you! -john in san francisco

  • John Daly

    jdaly: please stop posting with jdaly@yahoo.com. You’re using my email address by accident and I keep getting all kinds of email from this website. Thank you! -john in san francisco

  • congal claen

    The shinners dragged out decommissioning for years.

    Reap what ye sow. Then dry them…

  • joe@iol.ie

    So Congal you are making a direct link between the disarming of a secret, outlawed, terrorist organisation and the devloution of policing powers for the PSNI? Says what you think of the PSNI and who they belong to. Good to see moronity alive and well, you halfwit. Go back to your cave.

  • Billy

    LURIG

    You may well be right about the DUPs intentions. However, anyone (except Pete and a few Unionist posters on here) can see what the “fallout” will be.

    It is not SF who will get the blame – it is the DUP!

    SF have delivered on what they agreed – support for the PSNI and participation on the DPPs.

    The UK govt, the US govt + the Irish govt have all acknowledged this.

    The UK govt have provided a major financial package (at a time when they obviously have other extreme pressures!).

    Hilary Clinton came over to show the US govt commitment – when they obviously have a major crisis on their hands!

    Despite anyone trying to claim otherwise, the DUP are seen as the villains here.

    Linking their delay to a blatently sectarian demand on behalf of the sectarian and totally discredited OO was a political and PR disaster. Frankly, I’m surprised that Robinson, who is normally very astute, went for this. IMO, it just shows how afraid the DUP are of the TUV.

    Of course, the petulant but predictably disgraceful behaviour of Campbell + McCrea at Hilary Clinton’s assembly address simply confirmed the dreadful reputation that NI Unionism has outside it’s own heartland.

    Despite their pathetic posturing, it is the DUP (and Unionism in general) who are between a rock + a hard place.

    If they continue to pander to the DUP, then SF would be fully justified in walking away. The blame for this will go on the DUP – as I said SF have delivered and this has been acknowledged by all the main players.

    The DUP have not delivered and have blatently linked their bad faith to a totally discredited, openly anti-Catholic organisation.

    If the assembly falls, we will have either joint authority or another election. This will almost certainly increase SF numbers, deliver a SF first minister and the DUP will lose seats to the TUV.

    Alternatively, if the DUP succumb to the massive pressure they are under and devolve P&J, they will lose out big time to the TUV next time around.

    Either way, it’s a win/win situation for Nationalists and SF in particular.

    Funny how Pete and Co constantly gloat over the DUP outnegotiating SF (IMO) a number of years ago.

    They never seem to deal with the current situation and the mess that the DUP are in.

    Still, if people want to delude themselves, that’s up to them.

    The reality of the situation is clear for all to see (if they’re wiling to open their eyes).

    If P&J is devolved – the DUP will suffer at the ballot box.

    If it isn’t – they’ll lose their precious assembly – they’ll get the blame and the (already in tatters) reputation of NI Unionism will be even more tarnished.

  • qubol

    Pete Baker, how the hell is that link (on your first comment) supposed to show what the Taoiseach thinks? It doesn’t, it just leads to an endless series of Pete Baker Link Porn that no one but yourself could be arsed with checking.

    Also, you are factually incorrect. MMcG is not second in command. To say so, shows a thorough lack of understanding of the workings of the executive.

  • Expenses111

    Eamonn why not report McGuinness’ statement in full –

    “Today’s meeting was both useful and constructive.

    An Taoiseach and I are both agreed that there can be no preconditions on the transfer of Policing and Justice powers.
    What is required is a date to be agreed prior to Christmas for the transfer to take place and to take effect early in the New Year.

    I also used today’s meeting as an opportunity to register my concern at the ongoing attacks by Peter Robinson, most recently in Derry, on the decision making processes agreed under the terms of both the Good Friday and St Andrews Agreements and that I see these attacks as a very clear example of the failure on the part of the DUP to embrace the equality, partnership and power sharing arrangements which lie at the heart of these agreements.

    It disappoints me to say that Peter Robinson has thus far been found wanting in terms of the proactive leadership being called out for by our people. What we all want to see now is the necessary leadership to be shown by Peter and for him to step up to the mark and to get this job done”

    Face it Stormont is collapsing.

  • halfer

    McGuinness has absolutely NOTHING with which to threaten Robinson.

    Bring down the current devolved assembly? Do it, says Peter. We’ve all seen who comes out strongest in devolution negotiations.

    This is just another example of the DUP standing on Sinn Feins toes in the strangled, frustrated dance of consociationalist government…..the Stormont no step.

  • iluvni

    Cowen would be better off refraining from comment on policing and justice in NI whilst members of his own armed forces are sneaking across the border to try and murder NI police recruits.

  • New Blue

    And while all of this goes on;

    Children, parents and teachers are unsure if any schools will be able to open after the 31st December 2009.

    People who are facing poverty are being ignored.

    Potential investors to Northern Ireland stand by to see if the Assembly will collapse.

    But as long as Marty and Peter continue to piss higher and higher up the wall then that’s ok.

    Time for Change.

  • Comrade Stalin

    joe@iol.ie:

    So in an election, SF have secured the implicit support of the Irish Prime Minister for their position. Whose support has the DUP secured? And who has more to fear from an election? I’d hazard a guess its the DUP. Still, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

    All of this is completely irrelevant. What matters is, who benefits from an early election ? Who benefits from a collapse of the assembly ? Who benefits from the rise of Jim Allister ?

    Sinn Fein pulling out means an early election to the assembly. An early election means TUV candidates running, and potentially grabbing anywhere between three and six seats. If the TUV do well, which is a distinct possibility, that gives them the traction they need to win at least one Westminster seat in the general election, most likely North Antrim. By the time this happens, the political process that we’ve all put so much work into is effectively dead, and Sinn Fein are out on a limb.

    SF know this, which is why they have not pulled out yet. Peter Robinson is gambling that they’ll continue to hang on, which is why he’s doing the grandstanding and will likely continue to do it.

    It’s anybody’s guess what the world might look like if the assembly collapsed. Any elections would likely reaffirm Sinn Fein’s position, and show damage to the DUP. But that won’t count for anything if the assembly remains out of action. I don’t think joint authority is likely at all, I cannot see the Conservatives taking a hard line over sovereignty WRT Europe and simultaneously ceding authority to the Irish government, especially not when doing so would likely create more problems than it would solve.

    I see a lot of talk here about who gets the blame and who doesn’t, etc. None of this matters. Unionism has never cared about taking the blame, and it doesn’t now. If they think collapsing the assembly is in their interests, they will do it, and to hell with the consequences. I don’t think that is how they really feel in the DUP at the moment – Robinson’s defence of devolution, and his defence of the need to accomodate nationalism – has been spirited. However, it would be a serious mistake to believe that they will make tough decisions out of fear of taking the blame for things going wrong.

  • Quagmire

    “McGuinness has absolutely NOTHING with which to threaten Robinson.

    Bring down the current devolved assembly? Do it, says Peter. We’ve all seen who comes out strongest in devolution negotiations.

    This is just another example of the DUP standing on Sinn Feins toes in the strangled, frustrated dance of consociationalist government…..the Stormont no step.”
    Posted by halfer on Nov 29, 2009 @ 01:30 PM

    You miss the point though. All the big negotiations have already been done ala GFA and St Andrews. If the Executive falls again, it will be for the last time. The fallout from this will not benefit Unionism e.g. the emergence of Direct Rule with a larger role for Dublin. Unionism, through its own intransigence, will be the author of its own demise. Do you really think at this stage that the Brits, the Irish Govt and the US Administration will countenance another round of negotiations? And even if it were a possibility, who would Unionism negotiate with? Itself? Peter has two choices, namely operate power sharing, or conspire to bring down the Assembly hence ushering in an era of de-facto Joint rule, which will ironically see the introduction of an ILA and contribute to the emergence of greater north-southery, and Unionism will be powerless to stop it.

  • Panic, These Ones Likes It Up Em.

    Is the stopping of the Devolution of Policing and Justice by the DUP a big enough issue to show the DUP and Unionism as the wreckers/welchers of the deals that the peace process is built on.

    Who respects those that welch on a deal. It is obvious that the DUP have no principaled objections to the devolving of P/J.

    The small politics that they are playing has everthing to do with their insecurities with regard to the TUV.

    So in essence they lack the courage to carry through their part of a deal.

    Welchers that lacked courage may be Robinsons and the DUPs epitaph.

  • Trev

    It’s fun, though rather sad, to witness the Republican flock baa-up Martin and SF ‘strategy’.

    So bringing down Stormont will be a good thing for the Shinners? Will their past-and-future-friends forgive the ‘traitors to Ireland jibe’ and kiss and make up?

    Or is everything ok as long as Peter’s gang gets the blame?

    Perhaps the myth of joint authority is the wet -dream of choice? Really pissing-off the Garrison gang’s mirror image in the armed loyalist camp looks a pretty sh*tty option to me.

    Then again perhaps that is the shinners’ big idea. Afterall as ‘former’ members are now providing murder consultation to the new kids on the block in order to ratchet up the tension a return to ‘war’ is perhaps SF’s way out of this messy, difficult politics bollix.

    A bullet in the face is sooo much easier than having to actually discuss things with ‘themuns’.

  • Ralf Petrie

    With all this talk of a ‘deal’ to devolve P&J the one thing that is missing is actual evidence of the said deal.

    If Sinn Fein got a commitment, with dates and all, from the DUP let’s see it on paper. Otherwise this is all petulant hot air and, yet again from SF, a piss poor negotiating position.

  • igor

    ” the leader of Ireland agrees that no preconditions can be laid down for the transfer? ”

    Ah Jim.You mean the leader of a bit of Ireland. That’s part of the problem

  • igor

    “Again, the term ‘community confidence’ has to be shown for what it is, ie ‘unionist community confidence’.”

    and your problem with that is? As I keep pointing out, when it came to supporting PSNI SF played this line for the best part of 4 years. The DUPs are even using language copied from the Shinners at that time.

    I think its called ‘putting manners on them’.

  • igor

    Och Lurig, you are back again. Great. We missed that (green) bile.

    I assume that the DUPs planned destruction of power sharing is why they have taken it this far. And why the actually did a deal with SF (and a deal at SFs insistence to stiff the SDLP by denying them Justice in favour of the Alliance wannabes)

  • Guest

    All quite hilarious really,the punt panto”mine”.
    The here now and be all is that Sinn Féin will not bring down the assembly,as much as Robinson might egg them on.He’s stuck with what he agreed.If he can’t see through devolution as agreed then why would Sinn féin bring down the stalemate of mandatory devolution that Robinson now believes to be the eventual demise of said assembly.Time is on our side.Let’s see who puts manners on who come election time,election coming as it eventually must come anyway.Will the DUP then throw the rattle from the pram.Probably.

  • Guest

    Igor,

    “” the leader of Ireland agrees that no preconditions can be laid down for the transfer? “

    Ah Jim.You mean the leader of a bit of Ireland. That’s part of the problem ”

    Indeed,Igor,it’s not just part of the problem,but the actual problem.Glad you recognize it without drawing attention to the Anglo-Irish agreement.Progress………

  • Dave

    “The Taoiseach and I agreed that there can be no pre-conditions on the transfer of policing and justice powers.”

    It’s very macho of Marty to tell the DUP that they can’t impose any conditions but wee Marty might be terribly disappointed to discover that the DUP can impose any conditions that they like. It isn’t within Marty’s gift to determine the policies of another political party. Marty still doesn’t quite grasp this democracy thing.

  • Guest

    Dave,
    And Sinn Féin can do exactly the same.As can the government of the UK and government of the republic.What’s your point?

    ps-point of order on your spell checker Mick fealty;why do i need a capital letter for England,Ireland,Scotland,France,and many other countries except wales?
    Even Faroe islands?

  • Dave

    “Peter has two choices, namely operate power sharing, or conspire to bring down the Assembly hence ushering in an era of de-facto Joint rule, which will ironically see the introduction of an ILA and contribute to the emergence of greater north-southery, and Unionism will be powerless to stop it.”

    Indeed, and as the British government would quickly point out to the Irish government: responsibility for government requires joint joint-responsibility for the cost of government. I think you can whistle for that 7 billion euro because you sure as hell aren’t going to get it from Irish taxpayers. Joint rule is off the agenda.

  • Guest

    The ILA is coming in through Eu law anyway.

  • BonarLaw

    “21.The ILA is coming in through Eu law anyway”

    Links to draft clauses, please.

  • GFAsupporterbutrealist

    So, in the “old days,” SF wd hold onto the weapons, rob banks, allow killings like Robert McCartney etc, and demand more and more goodies from naive dupes and egomaniacs Blair and more crafty corrupt Bertie and they would get them. NOW, the DUP are adding on their wish-lists to P & J. Surprise, surprise. SF were outnegotiated at St. Andrews. There is NO written date for the P & J transfer. Fact. If it isn’t a fact, Marty, then produce the document(s). Blair and the idiots in the US demanded an election way back and the NI electorate threw out the UUP and SDLP and ended up with SF and the DUP. Is it such a surprise that we have reached the stalemate we have ? Robbo shd show bottle in facing down no-Plan-B Allister and SF shd stop whingeing and running off to Cowen or Brown or the US (which has NO influence on the DUP whatever).
    Pete has got this spot on and yet the come-back of the critics above is that he is shilling for the DUP! Tribal nonsense. If SF pulls out they will be blamed more. If there is an election, the DUP will still be blamed somewhat by promising much but delivering little or nothing after Trimble did the heavy lifting. SF and the DUP need to do a deal with one another and stop running to London and Dublin. Time for some real negotiation and horse trading. It’s called normal politics. And Alliance and Ford shd set specific written terms for taking the P and J portfolio. How absurd that tiny NI occupies so much time in London, Dublin and even in Washington. Get a life NI politicians!

  • Guest
  • Guest

    GFAsupporterbutrealist,

    you are right.Stalemate.But that is Peter’s way;

  • congal claen

    Hi Joe,

    “So Congal you are making a direct link between the disarming of a secret…”

    Er, no. That’d be you. So, really the rest of yer post refers to yerself. Nice one ;0)