UKIP and TUV exchange admiring glances…

THE Tories and UUP are still enjoying their honeymoon, but UKIP and the TUV seem to be making eyes at each other across the dancefloor in this News Letter article from a few days ago. Will the relationship progress from flirty to dirty… or is Jim just too shirty to jump into bed with the first GB party to look lovingly at his EU policies?

  • Charlemagne

    No taigs, no foreigners… What a nice combination. Lovely people!

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    perhaps it migt be fairer to say that – the Tories and UUP are still ON their honeymoon despite a number of reports of embarassing public disagreements and the odd fist fight.

    re. “or is Jim just too shirty to jump into bed with the first GB party to look lovingly at his EU policies?”

    Well there is always the BNP – but the DUP are not spoken for either. Perhaps a wee add might help:

    Extreme right wing, fundamentalist, intolerant, party enjoys climate change, colourful provocative parading and hohmophobia seeks like minded partner for elctoral pact and possible long term merger – no papish , foreign, Darwinian sympathising Parties neeed apply.

  • Nordie Northsider

    One would think that British rightwingers might think twice before alienating British Catholics with this kind of alignment – particularly when the potential gain is so neglible.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Nordie Northsider,

    I agree. The UUP link has not been highlighted either – you can imagine the shock (hopefully) when Mr-Midldle-England-Man is settling down to his tea, slippers and telly on and all nice and cosy and the news is reporting that members of the Tory party (Northern Irish Territories branch) who he has just voted into government are dressed up in their fine regalia and cheer leading a sectarian march through a residential area and causing all types of sirpatrickmayhem.

  • Storm

    So once UPRG becomes a political party will it be exchanging more than admiring glances with the BNP?

  • Dev

    Having seen the various candidates hoping to take over from Farage at UKIP on the Politics Show this Sunday I would say in this case it is the TUV who would be shacking up with the loonies, not the other way round!

  • Samuel McNally

    Sammy McNally was never going to vote for a unionist party anyway so whenever s/he’s slagging them off you might as well ignore her/him. Although I suspect most of us do that automatically…

  • One would think that British rightwingers might think twice before alienating British Catholics with this kind of alignment – particularly when the potential gain is so neglible.
    Nordie Northsider

    Nordie Northsider,

    I agree. .

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    The guy proposing this UKIP/TUV deal is a Roman Catholic.

    He’s from Liverpool and might even have irish heritage

  • Charlemagne

    Conquistador,
    Jim will be relieved that you told him in time before he committed himself to heretical action.

  • Comrade Stalin

    The guy proposing this UKIP/TUV deal is a Roman Catholic.

    A Roman Catholic, you say ?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Conquistador,

    RE. “The guy proposing this UKIP/TUV deal is a Roman Catholic”

    Well that is interesting – look forward to hearing him inteviewed.

    From the same report. “On Wednesday, Mr Nuttall met with students at Queen’s University and he said that the response was so positive that the party planned to set up a group there”

    Excellent News – if the liaison doesnt go through we will have another Unionist party, you can never have too many.

  • Panic, These Ones Likes It Up Em.

    Ah well.

  • cushy glenn

    “Excellent News – if the liaison doesnt go through we will have another Unionist party, you can never have too many.”

    and there we have the nationalist mindset in a nutshell. Whether the hundreds of thousands of Unionists vote for one or twenty parties, one putative electoral victory in the future by nationalists won’t alter the fact that they don’t want to be in a united Ireland, and won’t be joining one.
    It would be too easy to find a precedent of a group in Northern Ireland that ignored the wishes of the electorate as expressed in every election since 1921, so I won’t. But you might consider the shortsightedness of your creditably frank prejudice

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    cushy glenn,

    But you might consider the shortsightedness of your creditably frank prejudice.

    Unionist ideology is the opposite of my own i.e. Nationalist – I like when they are fragmented and argue between themselves as Nationalism generally benefits. What has that got to do with prejudice?

  • A Roman Catholic, you say ?

    Posted by Comrade Stalin

    Have you never met one?

  • Rory Carr

    “On Wednesday, Mr Nuttall met with students at Queen’s University and he said that the response was so positive that the party planned to set up a group there”

    I wonder is this the lot who have just been kicked off Facebook for an overly robust critique of Romanian working practices?

    They certainly sounded like just the kind of forward looking young people who might be well suited (and probably well booted as well, if you get my drift, squire) to life in UKIP what with growing handle-bar moustaches, drinking yards of real ale supplied by ‘mine good host and his lady wife’, eating Melton Mowbray pork pies and joining in rousing choruses of jolly songs such as Rule Britannia, The White Cliffs of Dover and Tomorrow Belongs to Me. And in the great tradition of other right-wing groups they can do a spot of gay-bashing in public while they get on with a bit of botty-bashing each other (but especially their leaders) in private. In a ‘manly’ way of course.

  • Reader

    Comrade Stalin: A Roman Catholic, you say ?
    You didn’t know there were several Catholic churches? I am originally from one of the other ones, for instance, and my wife from yet another.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Reader,

    I think most Fenians (used in the non pejorative sense) are not keen on the ‘Roman’ prefix as it tends to be used in a pejorative manner by Prods(used in a non pejorative sense) to emphasise what said Prods (still used in a non pejorative sense) deem a negative element of Fenianery (still used in a non pejorative sense).

    … Comrade Stalin will no doubt corect me if I have called it wrong but perhaps he detected like me a bit of light sectarian-speak.

  • Nordie Northsider

    Cushy Glen – you’ll be telling us next that this Roam Catholic hails from Éire.

  • Anonymous

    “I think most Fenians (used in the non pejorative sense) are not keen on the ‘Roman’ prefix”

    Really?

    http://tinyurl.com/yh2u3x7

  • ‘Roman Catholic’, in its most frequent conception, is ecclesiologically incorrect, as the Roman sui iuris church is just one constituent of the Catholic communion, along with the Coptic, Maronite, Chaldean, Melkite, Armenian (etc) churches. All these churches are under the Pope, but only one is ‘Roman’.

    I don’t get the jitters about referring to us as just ‘Catholic’, without any qualification. Many not of their communion frequently refer to the Byzantines as ‘the Orthodox Church’ and their adherants as ‘Orthodox’, though we do not believe they are orthodox in the theological sense. We also refer unscrupulously to the ‘Church of the Latter Day Saints’ though how many of us would concede the veracity of the claims implicit in the title? We Catholics refer to the ‘Church of Ireland’, and not, say the ‘Anglican Church of Ireland’, even less the ‘Irish Ecclesial Community’. Similarly with (just) ‘the Reformation’.

  • Reader

    It was Sammy: Comrade Stalin will no doubt corect me if I have called it wrong but perhaps he detected like me a bit of light sectarian-speak.
    I do get a bit narked when some of yous’ns seem to be claiming primary use of the label ‘Catholic’, and getting snotty when others claim their share.
    Regular attendees of the CoI, for instance, will be used to referring to themselves as Catholics in the catechism; Methodists refer to themselves as Catholic while reciting the creed. For a lot of regular attendees at these services, the term ‘Roman Catholic’ is a sensible and polite term of reference.
    Then along comes Comrade Stalin to get tetchy, or you getting suspicious about sectarianism.
    Mind you, if Conquistador is a Presbyterian, or a FreeP, then I don’t know what the score is…

  • To be honest, I think it’s just many of the Fenians (used in the non pejorative sense) on slugger going out of the way to take offence.

  • oh and Reader, yes I’m a bit of a hybrid denomination wise, but I do remember much discussion at confirmation classes about “the Lord’s Holy Catholic Church”, of which we in my church were part.

    Then along comes Comrade Stalin to get tetchy, or you getting suspicious about sectarianism.

    To be fair to him he’s Alliance and I’ve notice he seems to feel that way about everyone who isn’t. I suppose it’s sad to see such blind and irrational hatred

  • Comrade Stalin

    Usually when I hear the term “Roman Catholic” I get ready for a sectarian remark. It may very well technically be correct, but normal people from normal parts of the world (outside one particular point of view in NI) do not use the term in normal conversation.

  • Comrade Stalin

    err .. blind and irrational hatred ? I’m wondering what gave you that impression. I merely questioned the “Roman” prefix.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    CS,

    Well done – it is awkward to raise an issue such as this without opening yourself to up to abuse.

    But the use of language is very interesting – and Reader although yours is a very plausible explanation (which was news to me) are you suggesting you were not aware of how the term would be received by Fenains?

    I am not suggesting that my own language use is entirley ‘innocent’ but was wondering whether you understand the impact of this terminology when you and other (mainly) Prods use it?

  • slug

    “normal people from normal parts of the world (outside one particular point of view in NI) do not use the term in normal conversation. ”

    Normal people probably don’t get all techy about it either.

    Chill out all you NI guys out there. Does it matter?

  • Fabianus

    Ahem, sorry to interrupt a worthwhile and original spat but what can one make of this remark by Paul Nuttall?

    We think there is a huge gap for a non-sectarian, pro-British party in Northern Ireland that believes in independence from the European Union

    Personally I’m with him on this. I’m all for the Union and would like nothing more than a release from Europe.

    It galls me when I read about the lifestyles enjoyed by the unelected mandarins of Brussels and their cronies. All I can say is thank fuck Blair didn’t snatch the presidency. That would have been one farce too far.

  • I’m not a fan of Jim but come on!They have a similar outlook on membership of the EU to what UKIP has. What on earth is the problem with this?From what I’ve seen it is just any excuse to make a problem with unionists who disagree with nazionalist responses.

  • Why not blame everything on the fact that there was a protestant majority in this country?Does anyone really believe the lies told by those who speak to tell the truth?

  • I would have expected the TUV to link-up with the BNP, since they have a former member of the latter in their ranks, which is hardly surprising is it?

  • Fabianus

    sorryarnold

    The TUV can’t link up with the BNP, since the latter are racist thugs. Jim Allister must be seen to be respectable.

    It would be like Sinn Fein coming out on the side of the Nazis during WWII.

    Oh fuck, I’ve gone and Godwinised myself 🙂

  • The TUV may need to link up with someone.

    Its clear things aren’t all going well at TUV central:

  • Rory Carr

    In an attempt to make things absolutely clear, I usually introduce myself as “a communist, republican, Irish Catholic”. I feel that it is proper always to distance oneself from Maynooth, that slaveheart factory of lackey theology whose subservience to Rome was equalled only by its subservience to the Crown.

    It seems there are plenty of us around. In London anyway.

  • eric

    It has always surprised me that the DUP never hooked up with a British Euro-sceptic party like UKIP. Contesting elections in Britain under such a banner could have been another means to put pressure on the government parties in Britain.

    Admittedly such politics generally affects the Tory base and there might well be a compelling argument now that the prospect of the Tories returning to power with a small majority to exploit any difficulties or vulnerablities they have accross the UK.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Rory,

    I feel you may have inadvertently left out the phrase “running-dogs of imperialism” from your otherwise fulsome and fair review of papal priestly purposes.

    and talking of priestly phrases…

    a common phrase in relation to Ireland and the clergy is “priest-ridden”, a term originally coined to indicate a willingness of the Plain People of Ireland to follow Catholic doctrine but which has in more recent years, due to the disclosures of the nefarious activites of many of the men of the cloth, come to mean something entirely different.

  • Reader

    Comrade Stalin: Usually when I hear the term “Roman Catholic” I get ready for a sectarian remark.
    Then: instead of pre-emptively taking offence, next time how about just stepping up to a state of orange-alert?
    After all, how many people have such a hair trigger reaction to sight of the word ‘Brit’?

  • Reader

    It was Sammy: …wondering whether you understand the impact of this terminology when you and other (mainly) Prods use it?
    I have just discussed the paranoid and pre-emptive aspects of the impact in my previous post. So what else is there? Is there some dispute over the shared claim to the Nicene Creed?
    And why should any of the above be indulged?
    Not that I normally bother with the full term anyway.

  • student

    Was at the aforementioned student meeting UKIP held at QUB, and has been stated there was a positive reaction to a lot of the UKIP policies outlined by Paul Nuttall. However talking afterwards the general consensus among those present at the meeting was that UKIP would make no real impact on NI politics at present and that few, if any, of those present would leave their current party(was a mixture of UUP and DUP members present mainly), to join a UKIP group.

    An interesting argument made by Nuttall was that if Jim Allister had stood under a UKIP banner-as UKIP had offered him the opportunity to when he left the DUP-he WOULD have been re-elected. He also stated that if Jim had not stood UKIP would have put forward a candidate for NI. He then said that he would like Jim and other potential TUV MPs to join with UKIP in the Commons should they be elected.

  • He then said that he would like Jim and other potential TUV MPs to join with UKIP in the Commons should they be elected.

    Jim has a better chance of getting in to the Commons than any UKIPite, even notwithstanding their support tending to peak in Euro elections and disappear at other ones. The Greens have a better chance of getting into the Commons as they have a couple of serious targets and know how to work them. Even the BNP have a better chance of breaking through somewhere. UKIP’s support is scattered about the place and, unlike the Greens or the BNP, there’s nowhere where they’ve even got a serious crop of councillors.

  • Harry

    I think it’s good that some British parties are now looking to set up in N Ireland. The Tories could have set the trend.

    However, I am disappointed that UKIP want to ally themselves with TUV. TUV is a hardline Protestant party stuck in the past. It is hardly good to their reputation particularly in the mainland that they are alligned to the TUV. The Tories are being attacked for being alligned to the UUP!

    I would like UKIP to set up as a party on their own accord in N Ireland. They may not have significant support – but it certainly would be good to see more British parties who are pro-union and non-sectarian parties standing in N Ireland. I am a non-sectarian pro-union supporter so for me parties with those values are very much welcome to N Ireland. Now if only Labour and the Lib Dems were to take N Ireland seriously…

  • Speaking of Catholics, Roman or otherwise, this is a true story…

    Back in the 1920s, the Ku Klux Klan had pretty much politically taken over the state of Indiana except for the area around Fort Bend which was/is the home of the Catholic Notre Dame University (known as the Fighting Irish). The Klan at this time had moved on from terrorising blacks. The new targets were immigrants, mainly Jews and Southern European Catholics, mainly Italian. In an effort to win support in Fort Bend, the local Klan Kleagle met with the university’s Celtic Society. He told them in no uncertain terms that he had nothing against Irish Catholics. “It’s those Roman Catholics I have a problem with.”

  • Error in above. South Bend (not Fort Bend).

  • Fabianus

    Harry

    “I am a non-sectarian pro-union supporter so for me parties with those values are very much welcome to N Ireland. Now if only Labour and the Lib Dems were to take N Ireland seriously…”

    That pretty much sums up my feelings too. What NI desperately needs are parties untainted by sectarianism and tribalism. Britain seems to have them in the main parties. And even fringe parties like the BNP and Respect are trying to appeal across the board.

    Would you see a future here where our sectarian parties have been subsumed in NILab and NICon? To coin a couple of names.

    It would certainly lead to a “normalisation” of Ulster politics and that can’t be a bad thing.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Exile1,

    that is really interesting – any good links?

  • ItwasSammyMcNally whatdoenit,

    I don’t have a link but I read it in The Fiery Cross; The Ku Klux Klan in America by Wyn Craig Wade, Ch8, p235.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    ta