New local online hate group

Have blogged over on O’Conall Street about the latest local Facebook hate group. This one has been created by what looks like a very cross community group of apparently middle class students from Belfast and targets the Romanian community.

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Fortunately, there is no connection between the SDLP, middle-class students and attacks on Romanians in south Belfast.
    Oh, hang on…

  • Garza

    And people wonder why there is a brain drain in Northern Ireland. Everyone with sense leaves this backwards corner of the UK.

  • rapunsel

    Utterly disgusting and shameful. Some idiot thinks it’s alright for one of his mates to urinate on a woman scraping a living selling roses. Perhaps a few reports to facebook might get this pathetic group removed

  • nmc

    Perhaps a few reports to facebook might get this pathetic group removed

    Nah. Don’t reckon so, and just as well, as who gets to decide what’s acceptable or unacceptable? If you don’t like it you have to set up an opposing group welcoming the Roma folk and denigrating racism in NI. I suspect if you look, someone will already have done this.

  • Daddys Boy.

    The SDLP has condemned ALL attacks in South Belfast. Now maybe you have something to say about the issue?

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Pretty meaningless to condemn all racist attacks when you have browbeaten the cops into denying an attack was racist.

  • Conall,

    You say it’s time for the Assembly to look into the issue on online hate groups. Are you in favour of censorship, then?

    As appalling as the sentiment are they do not represent action.

  • As for the urinating incident, well, clearly someone was stupid enough to admit in a public forum that he witnessed a crime that he didn’t not report. The police are free to investigate the matter.

  • Drumlins Rock

    First thing Conall, try to do a post sometime without “over on O’Conall Street” contained somewhere in it.
    As for the subject yes its a crass disgusting page by pisshead students, you probably see the same crap posted in germany, england, the USA, being “cross community” or “middle class” is a petty attempt to make it “relevant” for a political discussion.
    Serious issues are raised on this subject and it would be better focusing on those, firstly these “rose sellers” from what I see are probably illegal immigrants basically begging, they normally harass people into buying tack that no one wants just to get rid of them, having travelled a bit I dont give support begging of any sort and prefer to donate to charities, I therefore think these individuals should not be allowed to harrass the public.
    HOWEVER, my second point is they should not be sexually harassed, mocked, racially abused, or assulted, such behaviour should be dealt with in just the same way no matter who the victim is.
    In our society we well know that when the authorities fail to deal with low level anti-social activity then the “mob” metality takes over and the idiot fringe feel they have the “right” to sort things out their way, which is often disproptionate and illegal.
    Banning a facebook page is not going to make this problem go away, the underlying issues have to be dealt with as well as the idiots posting on that page.

  • Not in favour of censorship Jason. But hate is hate. People peddling hate and making threats online should be held accountable for their words.

    Daddys boy. You are way off the mark.

  • Drumlins Rock

    see it has now made headlines on the BBC news,

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Way off the mark? Wow. Your PR skills really are worth every penny. If you think a stupid student website should be closed down, what do you make of the clearly racist and sectarian attack on City Church by two students, who have now been quietly let off with cautions and suspensions?
    Should that perhaps have been punished a little more severely?

  • random_quotes

    I have witnessed the police rounding up a few of the ‘rose sellers’ in Belfast City Centre, however I am unsure what action took place. To be fair they are a complete nuisance, but that page was disgusting.

  • iluvni

    whatever happened to those arrested for attacking the Romanians…and the church…during the summer?

  • Jason Walsh

    Accountable for what Conall? Where actions have occurred the police can investigate. Otherwise words are just words and unless you think people are unthinking automatons they cannot be constructed as incitement.

  • Daddy’s Boy

    However, actual attacks can be construed as ‘youthful high-jinks’ if you apply enough legal and financial pressure to the problem.

    Gone a bit quiet now from SDLP South Belfast Anti-Racist Central PR-HQ.

  • jone

    After availing of the best legal advice available to them the students who attacked City Church, Niall Colton and Kevin Briggs, got a caution and were suspened from Queens.

  • salem

    Daddys boy – if you knew anything about that attack you might know that one of their daddies was very high in Legal circles here. So I am not suprised they got a caution and were let off.

    What connection do they have to the SDLP ??

  • jone

    Colton’s da was an SDLP Westminster candidate back in the mists of time and he is still close to the party.

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Ask Conall.

  • salem

    “Back in the Mists of time” – so its the parties fault ! Lol please these kids are racists and I can assure you that the SDLP have condemed these acts. Both our MLAs and councillors did their best for the romanian people targetted and to the City Church.

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Close to QUB as well, which won’t have hurt.
    Good point by Jason Walsh on moaning over words, while dismissing actions. How the cops decided this attack wasn’t racist or sectarian from the get go is another mystery. How did they know? How could it not have been connected to the Romanian issue, or been intended to frame loyalists and make the situation worse? That possibility wasn’t even raised. There’s never been another ‘high-jinks’ attack on this church by students, in all the years it’s been standing there in the middle of student-land.
    It’s pretty clear these are two bad wee bigoted shites and it’s fascinating how their middle-class connections got them off with it.
    Now let’s see how the spides charged with attacking the Romanian homes can be treated any differently. Is it one law for the rich and another for the poor? The end of result of this is that NOBODY will be punished for the whole sorry episode.

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Unbelievably revolting facebook page.
    Just goes to show how utterly stupid some middle-class NI students can be. They are unaware of the furore during the summer caused by the Roma exodus, and think they can get away with this shit ’cause they are being witty student rascals.
    When the fuck are we going to see some expulsions from Queens/UU?
    If St Paddy’s day wasn’t bad enough, then surely this has to be breaking point? Expect a strongly worded ‘condemnation’ from the Unis, followed by hollow threats of ‘action’. Then expect fuck-all to happen bar a few warning letters to the Tyrone thickos whos EU-rich farmer daddy is pumping funds into Queen’s coffers.
    Shameful!

  • Zoon

    I have heard reports that the nipsa headquarters was targeted during the race/hate riots several months ago: can anyone confirm or deny this? It could be that the BNP or like minded individuals may be behind it. I know that when any trade union holds a rally nowadays there are those taking video of members and those same images may be published on Red Flag hate sites for maximum inverse publicity and intimidation motives.

  • Daddy’s Boy

    Way to change the subject, Zoon. NIPSA can’t be trusted on this due to SP infiltration, and there were no ‘riots’.
    I wonder if Paddy Meehan would like to picket student houses in the Holy Lands? No? Funny, that.
    Point of note: if Alex Maskey hadn’t gone on the radio and forced the issue, the cops would never have arrested the two students.

  • FB group now pulled off 🙂

  • Drumlins Rock

    I know, I pulled a few strings.

  • Result people. Thanks to everyone who made report to Facebook.

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    The names and facebook pages of some of the dickheads who left comments are available on the O’Connall St page. One appears to be a Belfast-based student (the one who talked about distracting a rose seller while his mate pissed on her).
    Can someone with some free time report him to his university please?

  • al

    Eye,

    report him for what exactly? Also who says any of these people are University students. Most of them from what I saw are probably still at school. It’s a shame that people always blame the students. The Roma’s selling roses are a pain in the arse but there’s a fine line between banter and racism or abuse. That group certainly overstepped the mark, but it’s gone. Get on with your day folks.

  • not so quick conall

    Conall, dont be so quick to claim credit, I found out who set the page up, he admitted it had got a bit out of hand and pulled it. Story over.
    Have you any comments of the attempted murder? massive bomb? the tragic deaths of two polish guys? widespread flooding?

  • one more thing

    just wondered is it a co-incidence you posted the story and it appears on Talkback on the same day,

  • Well in that case thank you too ‘not so quick’

  • One more thing – maybe Talkback read Slugger too!

  • my pleasure

    if you had of asked me earlier could have sorted it out without all this hassle and hot air.

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Al,

    Report him for aiding his friend in urinating over someone in a public place. Do you think this prick would have joined in this ‘banter’ if the woman being pissed on wasn’t a Roma flower seller? What if it was just a female student? Would she have been pissed on? Doubt it.
    Also I’m quick to blame students cause the guy I’m referring to says he is a student on his facebook page. ‘Shame’ that poor oul’ students always get the blame. After all, they are just monkeying around but are harmless really. If it was some spidey scrunt who pissed over someone in the street, you wouldn’t be so quick to defend them.

  • My pleasure. As I don’t know who you are how could I have contacted you??

  • Jason Walsh

    This whole thing is a depressing proxy for any kind of real politics. From start to finish, a sad affair. Another one to chalk up to empty-of-content internet phenomena.

    Conall, no offence, but this whole thing is emblematic of what’s wrong with the SDLP (and nationalism/republicanism more broadly). An obsession with offence and the desire to police people’s thoughts and actions. Any actual attacks on the people being vicitmised can be dealt with in the usual manner.

    I am reminded of how the anarchists complained that ‘official anti-racism’ did nothing but inflame tensions and cast minorities in the role of passive victims. Their anti-racism back in the day was a damn sight more practical before it was hijacked by liberal do-gooders and the state with it’s usual barrel-full of other agendas.

    Congratulations for what? Getting mouthy youths to shut up? Big deal.

  • Al

    Eye,

    Maybe it was the students spidey friend? My point is that not all students should be labelled so quickly. I thought in our society we would have learnt this by now.

    Nothing will come of this. I could say many ridiculous things on facebook and it doesn’t matter as it can’t be proved. Surely people have better things to do than “report” someone for a comment they made about their “mate” on a scoial networking site. If the lady was so concerned she would have reported it herself. It’s her business not yours.

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Al,

    My point is that this student admits he distracted his friend – spidey or otherwise – so he could piss on her. He found the whole thing ‘Hilarious’. I’m not talking about reporting it to the police, I’m talking about reporting him to his university.
    As a former student myself, I saw people get nailed and fined by the unis for a lot less than this, even outside uni hours and nowhere near the campus.
    So who’s labelling students? Not that students in Belfast need any help from the like of me in labelling them? Plenty of TV cameras did that last St Pats, while any non-student resident of the Holylands and other areas of south Belfast will tell you that many (not all) so-called smartest members of society are nothing but middle-class yobs.

  • Ciaran Gallagher

    Enough of this sensationalist garbage!

    This facebook group is meant to be a joke, and the vast majority of the comments are not at all racist. In fact, the only picture uploaded shows someone with their arms around a rose seller.
    The guy who set the group up meant it as a joke, and it is just a pity that others have taken it as an opportunity to express their own individual racist views (most of these ‘racist’ views are sarcastic – it is glaringly obvious that no ill-intent is meant).
    I’m sure the vast majority of those who joined the group saw it as a joke. As for those who used it as an opportunity to express genuinely racist views, that’s their problem.
    I accept that it was irresponsible for someone to set this group in light of events earlier in the year – but I am certain that no ill-intent was meant.

  • fair_deal

    Daddy’s boy

    “How the cops decided this attack wasn’t racist or sectarian from the get go is another mystery.”

    Point of clarification – Is that the decision of the police? I understood it was the victim that defined whether or not it was a hate crime. Am I mistaken?

    If the police did over-rule the complainant it would indeed be odd

  • Daddy’s Boy

    The PSNI announced that there was no racial motive immediately after the attack, and that’s what everyone else has gone with.
    It was reported last week that cautions were offered after the church accepted “reparations” – which was handy for all concerned.
    Try pressing for stronger charges as a victim and see where it gets you.

  • Zoon

    @ Daddy’s Boy

    What is SP short for?

  • I think that the Facebook page in question has been closed.

  • oneill

    “After availing of the best legal advice available to them the students who attacked City Church, Niall Colton and Kevin Briggs, got a caution and were suspened from Queens.”

    Jone,

    Are you positive they were suspended from Queens?

  • fair_deal

    Daddy’s boy

    “Try pressing for stronger charges as a victim and see where it gets you.”

    I have some experience of what you mention but that was pre-hate crime legislation so I thought the situation had changed.

  • Drumlins Rock

    nah it was a just a silly prank page,

    however the hysteria whipped up over it by a Conall may be a completely diffetrent matter…

  • paul

    Both Students concerned were not suspended from the university, where one of their fathers is a past senior student union official. If i recall, he and alex attwood were very close, and at the time they were both considered the “young turks” of the SDLP.

    It seems that having friends politically and legally connected helps reduce a racist attack to one of “high jinx”.

    Sure we were all young once!!

  • Daddy’s Boy

    What nobody seems to realise here is the three guys charged with the earlier attacks on the Romanians’ houses, if convicted, now have to be let off with a caution as well.
    It can’t be slaps on the wrist for students and Hydebank for spides, for much the same offence, essentially aggravated by ‘hate crime’ mind-reading.

  • jone

    More important than some distant students union office is the fact that daddy Colton is a member of the Directors Circle at QUB which means he has donated at least £2k and as much as £10k to the university.

  • oneill

    jone

    Reading this it looks like they are no longer at Queens:

    http://tinyurl.com/ykaprav

  • fair_deal

    Daddy’s boy

    “if convicted, now have to be let off with a caution as well.”

    Not necessarily automatic. Middle class kids getting off while working class kids go down wouldn’t be a new phenomenon.

  • Jason Walsh

    Twitter just now: on of a QC only gets a caution for roma race attack in Belfast…

  • Jason Walsh

    Son of

  • tweet tweet

    which twitter? link?

  • Guest

    what is twitter?
    please don’t tell me it is there some yoke worse than facebook.

  • tweet tweet

    Found it – that was a sharpish deletion!

  • ex holy lands resident

    Shocked but not surprised by this. The students can do whatever they want, the fact that this didn’t result in prosecution is an utter disgrace. And they admitted their guilt and haven’t been expelled from QUB? How disgusting. The Holy Lands has been surrendered to spoilt middle class brats who are apparently immune from the sort of judicial response anyone else would rightly face if they tortured their neighbours. Smashing up a church and no court case?
    A blank cheque has been written, this St Patrick’s Day will be the worst yet. For shame.

  • Danny O’Connor

    And these are the leaders of tomorrow – God help us.

  • largeaction

    I don’t understand why everyone claims that all these students are “middle class”. The two involved in attacking the church may well be, but from my experience the vast majority of Holyland students are far from middle class, unless the meaning of the phrase has changed recently that is.

  • Suilven

    largeaction,

    I think the intimation is that the majority of the troublemakers in the Holyland’s parents would be seen as middle class, not that the same boyos spend their time having afternoon tiffin and listening to Radio 4…

  • largeaction

    Suilven

    I take your point, but I still maintain that the definition of what constitutes “middle class” seems to have changed somewhat, principally to allow Citizen Smith types to use the phrase as a slur.
    This is doubly ironic, when a sizeable proportion of people who now live in what where once classed as “working class” areas haven’t done a days work in their lives.

    The class system in the British Isles is a socio-economic one – these brats and their parents have a bit more cash than they did in previous generations, but as someone once said, money can’t buy you class.

    Perhaps the old designations need to be thrown out anyway, as they no longer have the meaning they previously did.

  • Dave

    As a matter of interest, what social categories would you replace them with, largeaction?

  • largeaction

    Dave

    Social categories seem to serve limited purpose. There are those people who know how to conduct themselves in public, and contribute to a vibrant, functioning society, and those who don’t. The amount of money a person is in possession of is of limited relevance to whether or not they are a “contributor”.

    Socio-economic groupings, are really more economic groupings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#US_models), really only of real use to marketeers and sales people in my opinion.

    Throwing “middle class” at people like the “City Church 2” as some kind of pejorative really says more about the labeller’s inability to extricate themselves from some dated class struggle that it does about the labellees. Perhaps more appropriate descriptors would be “little scrotes”, “scumbags”, and “mindless tosspots”.

  • DC

    Are they standing for election, that’s what our other hate groups have done and well actually succeeded you might say?

  • ex holy lands resident

    I don’t think anyone can dispute that the son of a QC is middle class / upper middle class and has had a very financially privileged upbringing. The likes of him have less excuse than some idiot spide from Turf Lodge or Highfield, they’ve had it all on a plate.
    And the criminal justice system continues to dish it up on the same platter, apparently.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    ex HL resident: “I don’t think anyone can dispute that the son of a QC is middle class / upper middle class and has had a very financially privileged upbringing. The likes of him have less excuse than some idiot spide from Turf Lodge or Highfield, they’ve had it all on a plate.
    And the criminal justice system continues to dish it up on the same platter, apparently.”

    Equality in the eyes of the law is the hallmark of a good judicial system…

    …too bad it would seem that sometimes justice is dumb as well as blind.

  • DC

    “…too bad it would seem that sometimes justice is dumb as well as blind.”

    Much the same way as lawyers can be ‘smart’ and clever.

  • largeaction

    ex holy lands resident
    “I don’t think anyone can dispute that the son of a QC is middle class / upper middle class and has had a very financially privileged upbringing”

    I fail to see what this has to do with anyone’s opinion of the crime he and his pal committed – it is simply irrelevant.

    Of course, his background unfortunately probably has a lot to do with how the case was handled by the authorities, but what goes around tends to come around.