The truth hurts, or the DUP’s little blue book on how to improve community relations page 154…

H/T to Michael S for the link and the second part of the headline… It seems Mid Ulster MLA Ian McCrea has made remarks regarding the beliefs of the majority of Protestants about the Pope…

Note: original text amended as per RS’s remarks below…

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  • RepublicanStones

    Mick , the link doesn’t show him withdrawing his comments. Merely the stoops asking him to.

  • Pope Lundy I

    The statement is posted on his website dated 25 september under the fetching title of “NO POPE HERE!” SAYS MCCREA.

    And yes capital letters and exclaimation marks are used.

    Here is the text…

    DUP Mid Ulster MLA Ian McCrea has responded to speculation that the Pope of Rome may visit Northern Ireland next January.
    Mr McCrea said:
    “I am opposed to any possibility of a visit to Northern Ireland by the Pope of Rome and I believe a visit from the Pope should be vigorously opposed for a number of reasons, first of all the majority of people in Northern Ireland are Protestant and belong to denominations that hold to the belief that the Pope is the Antichrist and by his titles and claims he blasphemes Almighty God.
    A visit from the Pope should also be opposed as many Roman Catholic people feel that the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church have been complicit in abuse cases over many years and in light of the recent inquiry into child abuse in Roman Catholic institutions, such a visit would be very insensitive not only on the part of the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State who arrogantly issued an invitation for a Papal visit to Northern Ireland, but also on the part of the Pope himself.
    I have been made aware, that should there be a visit from the Pope to Northern Ireland it will face the vent of Protestant opposition and therefore I believe that it would be detrimental to community relations and, on those grounds alone, I would urge the Pope of Rome not to come to Northern Ireland.”

    http://ianmccrea.com/sec07/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=372&Itemid=45

  • The Spectator

    It also appears to be factually incorrect.

    “Pope as Antichrist” no part of Church of Ireland dogma.

    I’m fairly sure the Church of Ireland, when added to the Catholic church and other non-christian (and therefore non-antichrist believing) denominations, would form a health majority of the Northern Ireland population.

  • Neil

    I have been made aware, that should there be a visit from the Pope to Northern Ireland it will face the vent of Protestant opposition and therefore I believe that it would be detrimental to community relations

    Good ole McCrea and his tireless efforts in the pursuit of good community relations. Where would we be without the likes of him?

  • Driftwood

    His da must ne so proud. Wonder who he was named after? I note that Ian is only opposed to the Pope visiting NI, not the rest of the United Kingdom. What part of Unionism do the DUP not understand?
    As Capt Mainwaring would say…You stupid boy.

  • Spectator, the CoI subscribes to the 39 Articles articles which are hardly complementary to the Catholic Church eg ‘blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits’.

  • The Spectator

    Nevin

    1. It hardly invalidates my point.

    2. Quoting the Articles of Religion without reference to the 1999 Declaration of the General Synod, (which clearly somewhat dilutes the “un-complimentriness” of the original articles) might be considered not a little disingenuous…

    “The Church of Ireland affirms all in its tradition that witnesses to the truth of the Gospel. It regrets that words written in another age and in a different context should be used in a manner hurtful to or antagonistic towards other Christians.M/b>

    Presumably, Nevin, you don’t share that regret. Or am I mistaken?

  • Thereyouarenow

    AH schooks “what would you expect of a pig but a grunt”

    I suppose that makes me as bad as him.

    Sack clothand ashes for me and 1000 hail marys

  • Greenflag

    nevin ,

    ‘blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits’.

    You can pin that ‘complementary’ tag on all the churches. Why single out the RC Church? . McCrae is wired to the moon like most of these religious loons 🙁

    Should Catholics in NI protest against the visit of the chief ‘heretic’ in these island Queen Bessie herself ? or the Archbishop of Canterbury ? After all she represents both God (Head of Church ) and Mammon (Head of State ) two persons in the one heaven and earth magician show ?

    Best to keep religion out of politics . A few centuries ago ‘heretics ‘like McCrae were sent to the pre final charring before being dispatched to the eternal fire 🙁 . McCraes spiritual brothers in Iran and Saudi Arabia etc are not known for being squeamish with infidels, blasphemers and secular critics .

    Trying to keeping religion out of politics in Northern Ireland is alas like trying to get fish to swim in the Sahara desert:(

  • Spectator, have the Thirty Nine Articles been, er, amended?

    You might also like to check out the Westminster Confession of Faith which makes similar ‘complementary’ remarks.

  • fin

    Spectator, I don’t think any Catholic would draw anything positive from that statement. Indeed I imagine any decent person would continue to be dismayed at this attituded been displayed in the 21C

  • Greenflag, I was challenging the Spectator’s assertion.

    Wasn’t Bertie ‘hot-wired’ to All Hallows? Didn’t Liz O’Donnell say so? “The cosy phone calls from All Hallows to Government Buildings must end.”?

  • OC

    Take it easy on the Pope. According to Saint Malachy’s Prophecy, he’s the next-to-last one anyway.

  • CW

    “I am opposed to any possibility of a visit to Northern Ireland by the Pope of Rome

    Brilliant. I suppose he just wants to make it clear that he wouldn’t have a problem if the Pope of Milan or the Pope of Naples were to visit.

  • CW

    And there’s more:
    “A visit from the Pope should also be opposed as many Roman Catholic people feel that the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church have been complicit in abuse cases over many years and in light of the recent inquiry into child abuse in Roman Catholic institutions”

    As distinct from Milanese Catholics or Neapolitan Catholics of course, who are a breed apart.

    The guy’s a hoot. I suppose he is also fiercely opposed to the Ramblers Association and their promotion of the right to Roam.

    I wonder if he’s ever seen the film Chinatown, directed by Roman Polanski.

  • The Spectator

    CW

    To be fair, Alexandria has a Pope too. Two actually.

    Nevin.

    I return to point 1, which is, after all, THE point. The Church of Ireland does not hold that the Pope (of Rome, or anywhere else) is the AntiChrist. McCrea’s statement, therefore, is simply not true.

    As for point 2. The 1999 Declaration is clearly what a lawyer might refer to as “an aide to interpretation”. The Thirty Nine Articles therefore must be construed in light of that declaration, agreed in that year by the General Synod.

    I’m also well aware of the Confession. Does it declare the Pope as AntiChrist?

    Fin

    I’m not really looking for comfort from the Church of Ireland. Only accuracy from those who try to make some point about its teaching.

  • Joe

    [i]”the majority of people in Northern Ireland are Protestant”[/i]

    thats so 2003

  • CW

    Thanks for clearing that up Spectator.

    So when Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria comes to visit, Mr McCrea will no doubt welcome him with open arms, while having tea and scones in the Martyrs Memorial with the Arch Patriarch of Athens and the Muscovite Archamandrite.

  • fin

    I’m not really looking for comfort from the Church of Ireland. Only accuracy from those who try to make some point about its teaching.

    Perhaps I misread the statement, I gathered that the teachings remained unchanged, ie the Pope is the anti-Christ, but a kinda sorry if you’re offended bit at the end.

  • Thereyouarenow

    Is it not remarkable that this bigot would expect all and sundry to respect the head of the church of England.

    Homer Simson says it so well

    “DOH”

  • No Prods here

    McCrae is only saying what most Protestants north and south of the border think. These are the people who gave us Black 47, Garvaghy Road, 60 years of Unionist apartheid, Linfield FC and James Galway. Could we not intern and microchip all these before sending them “home” to the “mainland”, which do not want them either.

    The self styled Church of Irleand and its off shoots stopped His Holiness visiting in 1979 and now the bums, sectarian killers and football hooligans are at it again.

    Dev’s Constitution should never have been changed to take out the bit about the special role of the One, True, Holy and Apostolic Church.

  • Thereyouarenow

    No prods here can you go and have sex with Mr McCrea.

    Your love child would scare lucifer himself.

  • Hartegen

    So some in the DUP think the Pope is the Antichrist? Some in Sinn Fein think murder is ok, although I think they’re holding that thought at the moment.

    Where’s the surprise?

  • guevara

    Guess its just the dupers way of trying to be inclusive.

    Any ELO concerts planned for the near future?.

  • Bole

    McCrea is wrong when he burbles on about the Pope being THE Antichrist, (he needs to check his historical documents) all the Westminster Confession of Faith says is: “Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition…….” i.e. the Pope is ‘antichrist’ not THE Antichrist – quite a difference.

  • Spectator and Bole, here’s the quote from the WCF:

    “VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but [he] is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.”

    The [he] IMO is implicit.

    If the various Churches have a problem with such ‘complementary’ remarks then the simple remedy is to excise them, not try to sweep them under the ecclesiastic carpet.

    Perhaps not all PCI churches demand that their Ministers and Elders subscribe to the WCF.

  • The Spectator

    Nevin

    Thanks for that. now I feel we are maybe getting somewhere.

    You accept that the Antichrist provisions are therefore in the Confession, not the Articles.

    Does the Church of Ireland subscribe to the Westminster Confession?

    Because my understanding is that it only forms a “subordinate standard” for Presbyterians, not for Anglicans, or for that matter Methodists?

    Which leads me back, again, to my original point.

    Or am I mistaken?

  • Spectator, I attributed the Anti-Christ reference to the WCF and PCI, not to the CoI. However, my point about ‘complementary’ language applies to both. If it’s not excised it still stands and can IMO rightly be considered offensive by those who are on the receiving end.

  • How is community confidence to be assessed? Do we have to have a referendum? Could we even get local agreement on the wording of such a referendum?

  • OOPS How did that get there? 🙂