“make no mistake there is nervousness within the Sinn Fein ranks.”

On his blog, UTV’s Ken Reid tells us that on Thursday the Northern Ireland Executive will probably discuss the policing and justice legislation they saw at the last meeting. And, despite Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness trying to suggest that he might turn down whatever offer Gordon Brown makes in September – which does look likely to be a key time – Ken cautions

It all seems to be going smoothly but make no mistake there is nervousness within the Sinn Fein ranks. If the devolution does not take place by the end of the year there are all the necessary ingredients for a full scale crisis.

Well, they might need another distraction by then.. Update As Mark Devenport reports – “The latest moves may answer the question about where justice powers will be wielded from, but we still do not know when it will happen.” Whilst from the NI Secretary of State – “It is for the local politicians to decide when the time is right to do that, but the completion of devolution would be the best signal to send out to those opposed to democracy and stability in Northern Ireland.” If those parties agree that “the time is right”. But Sinn Féin deliberately destabilising the NI Executive for their own party political reasons, again, would send out what message? Adds BBC report after the NI Executive meeting.

, , , ,

  • Brian Walker

    About time we had another full scale crisis. Remind me what the last one was about?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    He’s quite right – if the Englezes dont pay up as required and the DUP dont play ball as agreed it will be curtains for Stormo.

    In that scenario they will be nervous times for everyone – particulalry with a right-wing Engleze government waiting in the wings, perhaps trying to wriggle on the hook of the GFA whilst making funny pre-1998 pro-Union noises and all being played out with the background of 3-way-war within Unionism – we may then need the quareone Hilary to kick a few Unionist/Tory feckers up the arse.

  • Paul

    Another thread portending the imminent demise of Sinn Fein

    Weeee how many is that this month and how does it compare to July 2006

  • Quagmire

    Stormont will not last the course. NI cannot be governed as it is presently constituted. The border ensures and encourages the cancer of sectarianism to thrive. Joint sovereignty is the way forward for the next 20 years imo, with gradual harmonisation and eventual unification with the Republic.

  • Driftwood

    Quagmire

    The border ensures and encourages the cancer of sectarianism to thrive.

    NOTHING to do with segregated education then?

  • Quagmire

    “NOTHING to do with segregated education then?”
    Posted by Driftwood on Jul 29, 2009 @ 07:20 PM

    The fact that education, amongst other things, in the north is segregated derives from that moment in history when one part of Ireland was forceably segregated from the other by the imposition of an arbitrary border. The best thing to do in order to break down barriers here in the north is to start with the one that lies south of Newry and west of Derry. The border promotes the idea of themmuns vs us both between here and the rest of Ireland and indeed within the 6 county area itself. The sooner it is gone the better for everyone imo. I’m all for integrated education by the way, but it will never really take hold whilst there are two waring tribes battling it out in such a confined space. Stormont, with all its vetos and stagnation, and indeed partition itself for that matter only serve to encourage sectarianism and hatred.

  • jane

    like, who the fuck cares anymore?

  • Doreen

    Quagmire,

    I for one want only friendly relations with our neighbour, the Irish Republic. Nothing more.

    I have little time for what passes for Government at Stormont too. That body has done little or nothing with what it is already charged, so who in his right mind should want it to be given even more responsibility while it cannot cope with the responsibilities it has at present?

    My grandparents had the right idea: they were born in what is now the South. Rather than stay and cause trouble for the new state, they moved north in the early twenties to where they could still live and be at home in the UK.

    A little reciprocity might not have gone/go amiss.

  • Ulick

    Thanks for that sage advice Doreen, I’m quitting my job in the morning, selling the house and moving down to my own country, if not my county, south of the border. No more will this pesky Fenian make trouble for your fine state. Slán agat.

  • Driftwood

    Quagmire
    I have no love for the Toytown council at Stormont. Much prefer Westminster where stuff actually gets done.
    Why not join up our thinking and re-integrate Southern Ireland into the United Kingdom.
    De facto it practically is anyway.

    We’ll even allow RTE to keep its football coverage, if only cos Dunphy is better craic than Alan Hansen.

  • 6countyprod

    ‘break down barriers here in the north … start with the one that lies south of Newry and west of Derry.’

    So if we paint the line at the side of the road a different colour, that’s it sorted. That’s the final barrier, right?

  • John O’Connell

    Paul

    3.Another thread portending the imminent demise of Sinn Fein

    Paranoid and inaccurate nonsense. But their demise is imminent.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Driftwood,

    its not often we have the misfortune to agree with each other – but I am fully with you on integrated eduaction – there is often quite a bit of sidestepping by Nationalists on this one.

  • Driftwood

    Sammy
    It’ll take time but unfortunately Education has been devolved to Trumpton, where it has become a bunfight. That said, no direct rule minister ever had the balls to deal with it.

    Actually, growing secularisation and direct action by schools with falling numbers/demographics may get us there, if only politicians would leave them alone.
    BRA is a prime example of leading the way.

  • Paul

    You have hit the pinacle of troll when a head case calls you paranoid

  • Pete Baker

    Oddly enough, Brian, the last apparent crisis was when Sinn Féin suddenly felt the need to cover their embarrassment at missing the May 2008 deadline for devolving policing and justice powers that they had promised their own activists they had secured at St Andrews.

    Sammy Mac remembers it well.

  • LURIG

    I don’t believe that ‘Catholic’ schools per se are the cause of division but I certainly welcome the decreasing influence that the Church has in the actual implementation of education including Catholic clergy principals etc. There is nothing wrong with a school having a certain ethos as that is surely democracy but education must be left in the hands of ordinary teachers and heads using a national curriculum.
    As for Sinn Fein getting angry, what did they expect? The Republican movement bought into a devolved Unionist majority Stormont and the DUP are calling all the shots. It’s not rocket science. I mean many right wing Unionist fundamentalists were not just going to cast off their apartheid sectarian mindset overnight. Robinson is looking over his shoulder all the time at Allister and there is no way he is going to buy into Sinn Fein’s timetable on Policing & Justice. Anyway what are Sinn Fein going to do, take their ball home? The guns are gone and the Republican movement has nothing left to rattle or scaremonger with anymore. The DUP knows that as do both governments and moves on P & J will now be dictated by a nervous Robinson who will be given as as long as he likes by London & Dublin. Sinn Fein has copperfastened partition ad infinitum and while Unionists hold a majority in the North Britain, the Republic and probably the US will go along with that. It’s definately a case of shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted for the Shinners. Crisis?? That’s a laugh, while Sinn Fein are receiving their Stormont salaries and have the whiff of ministerial power they won’t rock the boat. They gave up their principles and beliefs a long long time ago and that’s why so many of their members are leaving. Anyway the world has more serious things to worry about with the Middle East and economics.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Oh Dear Pete not the good old DUP revionisnism again.

    SF simply puts the brakes on Stormo until last November the DUP agreed to meet their obligations and get the process under way*. If they play funny buggers again then Stormo comes to a halt again. Simples.

    *The DUP were not only under pressure from SF fecking up Stormo but also from the Englezes who suggested their tardiness was assisting the republican dissers – remember the post when you lost the run of yourself and changed Woodward’s actual words to suit your own view of the world?

  • IRIA

    Sigh…I already miss McGregor.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    IRIA,

    I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same.

  • Pete Baker

    Sorry, Brian.

    Apparently Sammy Mac doesn’t remember it well after all.

    Still making things up I see, Sammy.

  • sj1

    I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same.

    Seconded.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Pete,

    lets test our memory of the period – do you remember Robbo’s threat – before he agreed to get matters under way – of serious consequences?

    They turned out to be about as serious as your suggestion at the time that the DUP were no pressure from the Englezes to move Police and Justice along because they had their not-in-a-political-liftime-funny-triple-locks? lol

  • percy

    pete,
    whilst you’re correct to point out that the devolution of P&J is a matter for Stormont; you can’t seriously be trying to undermine sammy’s assertation, that every time the matter comes up in Westminister HMG makes it crystal clear they seek the implementation of P&J as soon as possible.

    You may wish to argue just exactly how much influence NIO and HMG have on the matter, however they’re certainly on SF’s side of the arguement, that is uncontestable no/yes ?

  • Reader

    It was Sammy: SF simply puts the brakes on Stormo until last November the DUP agreed to meet their obligations and get the process under way*
    So, have you got another deadline for devolution yet?
    It was Sammy: If they play funny buggers again then Stormo comes to a halt again. Simples.
    So; if what SF did last time doesn’t work, they will do the same again hoping for a different result?

  • Pete Baker

    percy

    Despite Sammy’s fantasies about what I have, or have not said, this is, and has been, the government’s position throughout.

    The next and final step on the road to lasting stability is the devolution of policing and justice. The government has been busy making the necessary arrangements so that we will be ready to transfer the powers when the politicians ask for it. Legislation has been taken through Westminster, which brings the devolution of these powers closer.

    It is for the local politicians to decide when the time is right to do that, but the completion of devolution would be the best signal to send out to those opposed to democracy and stability in Northern Ireland. [added emphasis]

    What Shaun doesn’t address there is what signal was being sent by Sinn Féin’s deliberate destabilising of the Executive after missing their own mis-promised deadline – the part Sammy ignores.

  • John O’Connell

    Paul

    15.You have hit the pinacle of troll when a head case calls you paranoid

    More inaccuracies. Clearly you’re a Sinn Fein supporter. You can tell by the lack of empathy for other human beings.

  • Seán MacConaill

    God/John: do you mean to say that 126,184 people in the 6 counties just little under two months ago demonstrated their collective lack of empathy for other human beings?

    Crrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyy!

  • IRIA

    “I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same thing”

    True, maybe taking it from a slightly different viewpoint is what I was thinking, but touche.

  • percy

    sure pete, and the SoS is very careful not to apportion blame to either SF or the DUP, as they always are.

    Shaun Woodward wants the parties to proceed so as to isolate the hardliners in RIRA and TUV, who both oppose Stormont, and are, in HMG eyes complete “bounders” !

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Pete,

    “What Shaun doesn’t address there is what signal was being sent by Sinn Féin’s deliberate destabilising of the Executive after missing their own mis-promised deadline – the part Sammy ignores.”

    Top stuff – we are discussing what the Engleze government’s attitude is and you quote them and then argue that THEY have got it wrong – and you have the fecking to cheek to accuse me of making things up. lol (Echoes of your previous changing of Shaun’s speech)

    The DUP have a legal requirement to move this process along as set out in the STA and although they can slow it down they are under pressure from the Englezes (something admitted by Rev Ian, Deputy Dodsy and Robbo) to deliver and correctly blamed by the Englezes for boosting the republican dissers by their tardiness.

    And now it seems the DUP have now made their own difficult situation worse by delaying the transfer until the TUV are a real threat to them and this from a party who were crowing, as were many Sluggeronians, that they had out-negotiated SF.

  • Dixie

    An interesting thing this devolution of P&J, the loopy Alliance gets control of civic policing…IE letting hoods run amok and drug dealers deal to their heart’s content all for a few bits of information supplied to the political police force controlled by MI5 and Westminster.

    Ah well if it keeps The Deputy Co-joint happy and it keeps those who look to him for their happiness happy, everyone will be happy in PSF including Gerry what-ever airspace he finds himself in.

    Talking about Gerry…What happens when he runs out of Irish Diaspora and they haven’t found out how to do it?

  • Pete Baker

    Sammy

    You keep making claims about statements I’ve made and/or positions I’ve argued.

    Care to back any of those claims up with quotes and links to the relevant posts?

  • John O’Connell

    SMcC

    In denial, are we?

  • black kettle

    A member of the IRSP is now whinging about “hoods” and “drug dealers”. Brilliant stuff.

    And how did the IRSP the last time they faced the electorate, Thomas?

    P.S. How’s the IP tracing going?

  • percy

    Dixie, I wouldn’t 2nd guess your experience for a moment, but isn’t getting a bit wasted on the waccy-baccy preferable to slaughter and the resumption of old hatreds.

    Give peace a chance, and do a mural with Uncle Ruari smoking a gangsta style spliff.
    Inspiring?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Pete,

    are you telling me you dont remember changing the statement by Shaun W. when he said that the delaying of the transfer of Police was playing into the hands of the republican dissers?

    Tis in the archives to be sure.

  • cynic

    “perhaps trying to wriggle on the hook of the GFA ”

    ….errr why when their party virtually wrote the gameplan for it?

    Above all, bluntly, why would they give a stuff?

  • cynic

    “the imposition of an arbitrary border”

    …. there was a Treaty, an agreement and people voted for thsoe who signed it…….

    It was only imposed on those who lost the argument

  • Pete Baker

    Sammy

    Then produce the evidence to show exactly how duplicitous you’re suggesting I’ve been.

    Assuming you can.

  • Guest

    cynic,

    “those who were not for peace must take full responsibility for the war that would immediately follow refusal by any Delegate to sign the Articles of Agreement.”-George.

    Argument of force?

  • Seán MacConaill

    God/John, you state that one can determine a PSF supporter by their “lack of empathy for other human beings.”

    Does merely apply to their senior leadership or does it extend further to the party’s activists and voters which numbered more than 330,000 throughout the island at the last election?

  • Dixie

    black kettle…

    Ah so the shinners have me in the IRSP now do they? Well if you think that you can pass it on to the PSNI and maybe they’ll stop me taking my kids to school and search me?
    Old Gregory Campbell has turned yous into fine guard dogs indeed and I can’t wait to see what happens when Peter lets Marty have P&J I have visions of that scene in Invasion of the Body Snatchers with all the squealing and pointing.

    percy…

    I don’t want a resumption of old hatreds, where have I ever said that? Sure it achieved nothing but more corrupt politicians and loads of community workers who do very little community work.

  • black kettle

    Yes, Dixie, because all of your detractors must be PSF touts. The entire proletariat citizenry do dearly love the IRSP/INLA with all their hearts!

  • Dixie

    black kettle…”Yes, Dixie, because all of your detractors must be PSF touts. The entire proletariat citizenry do dearly love the IRSP/INLA with all their hearts!”

    …And all their various names!!

  • black kettle

    It’s fantasic to see those stand-up comedy workshops ye boys put on for yourselves inside the cages coming to good use all those years later!

    Votáil IRSP

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Now now Pete stop wriggling and answer the simple question.

    Do you remember Shaun Woodward’s speech in which he said that failure to move on the transfer of Police was damaging the peace process which you published and put red lines through the bits you didnt agree with?

    Yes or No?

  • Pete Baker

    Sammy

    Then produce the evidence to show exactly how duplicitous you’re suggesting I’ve been.

    Go on, then.

    You’re the one making the claims.

  • Dixie

    The Peace Process Sammy, I remember the original one in the 70s. I think Mairead Corrigan starred in that one if I remember right?

    I was just wondering, the unemployed are forced to fight over jobs, that aren’t out there and if they are they are menial, or else they lose their benefits. And what is Marty’s main concern? Getting civic policing devolved from Westminster so he at least can have some smidgen of achievement and his followers can rejoice at this.

    Thank God we have the likes of Martina to tell us how badly off we are and that something has to be done about it…Now the SDLP could never do that so convincingly while making sure we have Irish policemen politically policing us.

  • DTA

    Anyone else miss MMC?

  • DTA

    MMG*

  • ed

    lol pete d’nial aint just a river in Egypt

  • frustrated democrat

    Sad isn’t it, P&J has been reduced to a party political football. When what we need is the existing portfolios being run efficiently and the parties working together for the good of everyone.

    But no let’s throw in the biggest problem of all which is why it wasn’t devolved in the first place. Then we will gerrymander the d’Hondt process to ensure it is given to the smallest of the main parties.

    What a shambles, two parties in turmoil whose main interest is in sustaining themselves fighting to keep their supporters ‘onside’ squabbling over P&J and a third waiting for some scraps to fall off the table so they can join the big boys.

  • Duth ealla

    Sammy,

    i remember it but judging by how adamant Pete is he must be right in this mustn’t he?

  • danielmoran

    quagmire msg 4
    you have got to the nub of it. the shinners have shipped onboard serious problems with their base support leaking since they joined up with the duplicity party. they,ll be left with no option but to suspend the executive again, [this is the only thing they done to put robbo under the cosh since ’07. i agree it will be history by christmas.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Duth ealla,

    …unless of course there is more than one Pete Baker.

    Pete,

    I’m not in the habit of compiling ‘evidence’ for future reference but rely instead on frank and open discussion.

  • Pete Baker

    Sammy

    Then stop mis-representing what I’ve said and/or argued.

  • Fergananim

    Quagmire

    How the hell has asked US (the state of Ireland) about unification? What’s in it for us?

    Every republican seems to assume that once you persuade the Unionists to unify (as if) it will happen overnight.

    Nobody seems to think about the wishes of the people down south.

    The fact of the matter is that the state of affairs in Northern Ireland is of your making, your problem, and your responsibility to solve.

    Transferring those problems from one country to another will solve nothing.

  • John O’Connell

    17.God/John, you state that one can determine a PSF supporter by their “lack of empathy for other human beings.”

    Does merely apply to their senior leadership or does it extend further to the party’s activists and voters which numbered more than 330,000 throughout the island at the last election?

    Logically it must apply to all supporting the party to one extent or other.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Driftwood:

    It’ll take time but unfortunately Education has been devolved to Trumpton, where it has become a bunfight. That said, no direct rule minister ever had the balls to deal with it.

    Doesn’t that last comment sort of fuck up your whole thesis about things being better managed from London ? No direct rule minister ever had the balls to do anything here. That’s quite appropriate given that nobody here elected either them or their government. That won’t change when the Conservatives win given that the UCUNF will almost certainly still have no seats.

    If the people in this country want to be properly governed, they need to understand that they have the responsibility to make this happen by electing politicians who do things.

  • joeCanuck

    The primary purpose of any government should be to provide for the safety of its citizens. A government which does not control that is not worthy of the name.

  • Driftwood

    Comrade Stalin
    I believe the conservative and Unionist Party will win seats in all parts of the UK in the UK General election due soon. including NI (oh and including North Down and East Belfast- can we go a tenner to the dogs trust on both those seats, Tim Collins in one of them).
    I should have added ‘New labour’ to my direct rule ‘no balls’ ministers. After all it was only thanks to Tory direct rule we have Sunday opening and other liberal laws. I hope Owen Patterson brings us into line with the mainland on legal Abortion.
    Your last statement is invalidated by the realpolitik of the Trumpton assembly. It isn’t working. On that point, would you like to see Treasury, Defence and Foreign office functions devolved to Trumpton?

  • danielmoran

    ferganamin msg 8
    Thanks for pointing that out. it’s what i have said before on these pages. If a referendum is organised for the north, the first thing Dublin will do is organise one down there. The response is predictable, so they won’t need to waste money on a campaign. they are obliged to do this in order to secure the stability and security of their state.

  • Fergananim

    danielmoran,

    Because of this hoary-old jihad for unification, SF will never become a true 21st century party. If their main reason for being is a concept outdated to the majority of people in Ireland and Northern Ireland, their appeal will remain limited to purely their local following.

  • frustrated democrat

    CS

    The one thing we can be sure of is that the Alliance party won’t have any seats even if the Lord Mayor Naiomi has the brass neck to attempt quadruple jobbing ( her opponents will have a field day) – don’t you have any other members?

    As for the Conservatives and Unionists they will have more than the current one.