Paisley and Yamato

The greatest battleship ever built was the Japanese Yamato. She was the largest, had the largest guns and was the most heavily armoured. She was sent on a suicide mission (called operation Ten-Go) to attack the Americans on Okinawa in April 1945. However, she was repeatedly attacked by American carrier borne aircraft and over a period of two hours she was sunk by numerous torpedo and bomb hits. It was the inevitable end of the finest example of a once overwhelmingly powerful military machine which technology had rendered obsolete.

It appears that Dr. Paisley may feel that he has at least one election left in him: both the BBC and the News Letter are carrying the story that Dr. Paisley is thinking of running again for North Antrim in the next Westminster elections. Paisley earlier suggested that Jim Allister would be “very welcome to come and get a hiding in North Antrim.” Jim Allister seems unmoved stating
“I look forward to the verdict of the people of North Antrim on the chuckle routine and the record of their absentee Westminster representative.”
The question is whether Paisley has one more victory left in him or is he fated like the Yamato to be perused to destruction, military technology having passed the battleship by.

  • Big Maggie

    Turgon,

    Why are you comparing Paisley to man-o-war? For shame!

    But why on earth is Paisley running again? I wouldn’t have thought he needed the money. But greed can strike even the best of us I suppose.

  • Paul

    Turgon

    how can you be watched in to destruction

  • Dread Cthulhu

    The biggest difference being that the Yamato had alternate uses – shore bombardment, recycled for razor blades, etc.

    What other use does Dr. Rev. No have?

  • Big Maggie

    Dread Cthulhu,

    “What other use does Dr. Rev. No have?”

    He can cause everybody in his vicinity to appear sensible, tolerant and well-adjusted.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    An incerdible scenario where Ian Snr would be saying “Yes” in the fight with Jimbo on the single issue of whether Unionism should be pragmatic in their battle with Nationalism and let SF stay in government.

  • Larne Owl

    Turgon, what do you reckon – does Sammy Wilson bending over backwards to Sinn Fein’s equality agenda not tell us the real truth about so-called ‘DUP-rule’ at Stormont? Unionists have to wonder who is actually getting the ‘kicking’ that the big man is promising Allister. See Bel Tel (Sinn Fein are blamed for planning blockage” – 17 June 2009):

    On the Planning Reform document being blocked for public consultation by SF, Sammy Wilson is quoted:

    “This document has been more equality proofed than similar documents put forward by any minister including Sinn Fein’s ministers — yet they still object. I have bent over backwards by getting more work done on equality issues to a level that no other similar document has been subjected to in order to advance the issue.”

  • Pete Baker

    Turgon

    When Ian Paisley Snr actually submits his nomination papers I’ll regard it as being worthy of serious consideration.

    Until then it’s just more of the propaganda battle.

  • iluvni

    I suspect the lure of being Father of the House will just be too much for Paisley to resist .. just as the chance to be First Minister was too much to resist…..oh, and freebies and expenses, if he can still get them.

  • Sam Flanagan

    A friend phoned me earlier and said TV news carried a DUP report which said Dr.NoBody will NOT be standing in N.Antrim.
    Anyone else heard this?

  • villager

    He can’t be the Father of the House because he resigned his seat in 1985, unless he stays another 20 years!

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sounds a bit like Paisley is being pressured into talking about this by Robinson who perhaps believes that he can deliver a death blow to Jim Allister by beating him in his home ground.

    Trouble is, the man’s just too old. While he was First Minister he was very evidently old and frail and just about had the energy to put in a couple of hours per day. I can’t imagine this has improved.

    I still got a weird feeling of pleasure, which somehow seems wrong, thinking about the sparkle he probably had in his eye when he talked about delivering a hiding to Allister.

  • 6countyprod

    Turgon, what a nice little club of Paisley-bashers you have managed to gather up. Y’all should form a society!

  • Different Drummer

    Colleagues! Colleagues!!

    I think aim of Jim-Ulster-Allister and the Phantom Dr T will be aiming for is some like the effect that IPsnr delivered to O’Neill in 1969.

    Stormont Constituency Banside Feb 1969

    Ulster Unionist Terence O’Neill 7,745
    Protestant Unionist Ian Paisley 6,331

    This was as IPsnr said ‘a good vote’ but it did not deliver the coup de gras – that was the job of the UVF which let off a series of bombs which were blamed on the IRA.

    After that it was all over for O’Neill

  • Driftwood

    Paisley is more like HMS Belfast now, a defunct, obsolete,paltry tourist anomaly. I hope he stands and defeat sends him to his grave a hopeless loser like all little Adolfs.

  • Driftwood

    Different Drummer

    (Captain)Terence O Neill was a respected Guardsman who earned a great reputation among his men in the battle for Normandy.- even brought his own chickens.
    Paisley never fought a battle in his life, the Julius Streicher of Irish politics, and Robbo his colourless ‘Von’ Ribbentrop.
    Jim Allister would be clever enough to be Albert Speer, if you really want to carry the anology.

  • Different Drummer

    Sure you used enough dynamite their butch….

    If only you knew!! If Only You Knew!!

  • Different Drummer

    Drifter – Analogizing – What We Must Do

    I’d say if you used the word in Jim-Ulster-Allister’s presence he would give a rather devilishly rye smile. Why because he would like my Mr JOC – CO think you were some kind of academic **** (redacted in line with the new public discourse rules).

  • emanonon

    I think we are seeing the start of the disintegration of the DUP, as the Paisleys and others, smarting from IPS’s demise, take on the Robinson mafia .

    It was obvious there was a problem when the DUP in Ballymena picketed Cameron, IPJ instigated, on the same day Robinson was making overtures towards Cameron.

    Those now left voting for the DUP are mainly ex UUP voters from about 1997 as the TUV have mopped up most of the DUP from that era, so just how loyal are they to the party. It is also intersting to see how many DUP people in the Assembly (elected and support teams)have a background in the UUP.

    It seems that Robinson’s grip has been prised off the tiller as Forster and Wilson refuse to listen and no one of any stature would run for the EU. Those who wield the sword should beware as it may be turned on them as the seemingly impregnable ramparts have started to crumble and Robinson starts to look, as they say, ‘in office but not in power’.

    A week is truly a long time in politics and nearly a year to the next election is an eternity.

  • Different Drummer

    Thanks for that Emanonon

    Yes as you imply it’s not about the recent deffections to the TUV’s
    it is about how the rest will follow soon enough.

  • Different Drummer

    Thanks for that Emanonon

    Yes as you imply it’s not about the recent deffections to the TUV’s
    it is about how the rest will follow soon enough.

  • Zoon Poltikon

    Ian Paisley is not a Dr! This is a PR trick as exposed by a German academic in the Belfast Telegraph years ago. At most it is an honorary degree awarded to him by a Dixie State (South Carolina etc) University that condoned racial segregation. Being of no academic or legal worth in the EU it is in fact false representation.

  • Neil

    Yeah but we still want to say ‘Doctor Paisley’, cause we’re taking the piss. Bob Jones Uni was it not something like that? I hope he has lost the sense that he may once have had to know that Big Jim would beat him bad, (and I point out I’m a Republican here, just so people don’t think I support Big Jim masell). He does come across sharp and you can tell he’s confident and ready to fight.

    Having said that, Ian Junior would have been more amusing for me. I detest the man, seeing him getting ripped to shreds on the telly would have been very enjoyable for me.

  • Markkus

    Paisley is more like HMS Belfast now, a defunct, obsolete,paltry tourist anomaly. I hope he stands and defeat sends him to his grave a hopeless loser like all little Adolfs.

    We could moor him in the Thames and let him rust away quietly.

  • Zoon Poltikon

    It rings a bell but i think the university is the same uni that bestowed the MP who shared a platform with King Rat in Portadown and who buys furniture or his second home from the public purse. Hit name is on tip of toungue but he is the singing Dr (sic).

  • brubaker

    If we’re continuing the naval analogy I would suggest that the good Reverend is more comparable to the HMS Hermes.

    Aging, with a long career, distinguished and battle hardened. In fact Hermes was due to be decommissioned before the Falklands War, was brought back into service and performed admirably.

    Oh and just so Zoon Poltikon knows for next time, more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1…

  • skullion

    Probably for the first time in a trillion years the nationalist vote in North Antrim might have some significance.Imagine Ian og asking nationalists for their vote to keep Allister out.

  • George

    Brubaker,
    Oh and just so Zoon Poltikon knows for next time, more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1…

    Actually, just so you know for the next time, that is incorrect. It was around 150,000 fighting on the Union side and 40,000 on the Confederate side.

  • eranu

    Big Ian running again reminds me more of the comedy series Only Fools and Horses.

    It ran for years / he ran for years

    The Trotters went through many tough times / he went through many unpopular tough times

    Many thought things would never change for the Trotters / many thought he would never change

    At the end of the series things worked out for the Trotters / At the end of his career things worked out for him – leader of NI, former enemies chuckling together for the greater good, momentous handshakes, respect for doing good.

    But then they decided to ruin the series by doing one more episode with the Trotters back in the flat skint again, back where they began / and then he decides to go back to north antrim and run as an MP when hes waaaaay past it????

    best to enjoy his retirement i think.

  • Big Maggie

    eranu,

    Nice analogy there!

    Me, I’m thinking of “Dr” Ian Paisley and “Dr” Gillian McKeith.

    * Paisley got his “doctorate” from an unaccredited American university; so did McKeith

    * Paisley preaches all sorts of irrationality and unscientific nonsense; so does McKeith

    * Paisley made a small fortune from his “work”; so did McKeith

    * Paisley likes to engage in shit-stirring; so does McKeith

    * Paisley wears crotchless red knickers; so does McKeith.

    OK, maybe I made that last one up :^)

  • Bemused

    So Turgon in this analogy Allister is modern and forward looking, while Paisley is mired in the past?

  • Neil

    Sorry Zoon Poltikon would you be referring to the honey toned Rev. Willie McCrea by any chance? Another kind hearted man of the cloth.

  • yis are a depressing bunch

  • Zoon Poltikon

    Yes Neil that’s the guy!
    And when I said …Dixie State… I was doing so for a geographic reference only.

  • Greenflag

    brubaker ,

    ‘ more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1’

    According to the records of civil war enlistment to take just one example those with the common surname Murphy -some 2,500 fought for the South and some 8,500 for the North . The same pattern is seen with many of those sporting ‘irish names ‘ . If you are including the Scotch Irish as Irish then the numbers might have been even on both sides. Scotch Irish probably fought for the Confederacy as opposed to Union forces in the ratio of 3 to 1 . Mainly because of the pattern of settlement with the Scots Irish mostly settled in the poorer more agricultural southern states .

    Facts not myths please !

  • Greenflag

    bemused ,

    ‘in this analogy Allister is modern and forward looking, while Paisley is mired in the past? ‘

    Turgon’s analogy is tripe . Allister is trying to fight a new war using ‘old weapons’ . Paisley in a sense did the same during his long climb to pole position in NI politics -we forget it did take him almost 40 years to get from back street rabble rouser to FM and Paisley had a great deal more political skill, nous and ‘money’ than Allister . Paisley also had the sense to acceot that the ‘old weapon’ of no power sharing with the SDLP or SF was never going to restore local self government to NI.

    Allister is in the same boat that Paisley once captained . That boat is at the bottom of the Irish sea and even if Allister manages to raise the boat once again to the surface it will not be long before it goes the way of the Yamamoto !

    Turgon is allowing his abhorrence of SF/DUP etc to cloud his political thinking.

  • latcheeco

    Turgon,
    Maybe The Fighting Temeraire is a better naval analogy with the old ship being recalcitrant unionism.
    Greenflag,
    Agreed. In terms of immigrant(straight off the boat) Irish, the North’s ranks were clearly far fuller than the South’s (150,000/30,000 iirc). However, the South did recruit many immigrants who had come through New Orleans and Charleston as opposed to New York and Boston. In terms of second and third generation Irish the numbers are harder to read because of the huge Scots-Irish population in the South but units like the 10th Louisiana, 24th Georgia, and 8th Alabama were regarded as Irish regiments and actually faced the union Irish brigade in several battles.

  • villager: No-one seems 100% certain about the rules on the Father of the House in this area. There are some past Fathers who successfully fought mid term by-elections in their career (under the old ministerial rule) so it’s possible Paisley still qualifies, though as Sir Peter Tapsell (continuous since 1966) plans to keep on going until he dies whilst several of the 1970 intake are restanding (and I think in 1970 MPs were sworn in in alphabetical order – this rule meant Bernard Braine not Edward Heath was Father in 1987-1992) it’s possible Paisley will have to wait some time to reach the top.

    Zoon Poltikon: Paisley has two “doctorates” – one from the American Pioneer Theological Seminary, an unaccredited diploma mill that was subsequently shut down, and an honorary one from Bob Jones University (say whatever else you may about it but BJU is not a diploma mill). A *lot* of Protestant clergymen use the title “Dr” with about as strong a basis for doing so. The Germans have laws restricting the use of the title to those conferred it from accredited institutions but this idea hasn’t caught on much elsewhere.

  • Wise Man from the East

    Paisley is more like the Nomadic. Old, useless, a shadow of his former self and barely still floating!! He would love to have thousands of pounds but can no longer get it as his expenses and office claims have been exposed. One would expect a ‘Christian’ Minister to be above such rackets! Bring on North Antrim. Victory for Allister!

  • Cymru

    Paisley’s academic qualifications are not acceptable in Irish or British universities.

    Do we know anything of the rigour of his academic research, the number of years he studied full-time, and the details of his doctoral thesis? And what is the status of a sectarian college such as the Bob Jones university in US college rankings?

    I never thought he deserved the esteemed title of doctor.

  • sinless

    The gallant sailors and marines of Yamato maru went to their heroic deaths against rapacious invaders. (The Yanks raped all round them in Okinawa).

    Paisley, by contrast, may be regarded as a war criminal. He and his party should face the noose, not the electorate.

  • Cymru Ffydd

    Paisley does not deserve his exalted title. It is not recognised in any Irish or European academic institution.

    What are the details of his doctoral thesis, the evidence of academic rigour required for a Ph.D, and the number of years spent in pursuit of this highly esteemed qualification? And what is the status of the Bob Jones college in the US College rankings?

  • Reader

    Cymru Ffydd: What are the details of his doctoral thesis, the evidence of academic rigour…
    Irrelevant for an Honorary Doctorate: George Bush and Kermit the frog have been awarded Honorary Doctorates by US universities.

  • emanonon

    Does it matter whether or not an 83 year old is a Doctor or not. I think we all know who IPS is and what he has done in the past, the Dr. title will not make one vote more or less.

    What matters is whether or not the DUP is imploding as the various factions seek to get the upper hand or if it can rebuild itself into something meaningful.

    As the UUP found once the slide starts it can be hard to reverse and takes a long time, in their case it took the Conservatives to revitalise them and get them back in the game. Who can the DUP find?

  • Dr_Mac

    emanonon
    “Does it matter whether or not an 83 year old is a Doctor or not.”

    I daresay it matters to people like me who spend years slogging away with little pay to achieve the same title.

  • WindsorRocker

    emanonon,
    “As the UUP found once the slide starts it can be hard to reverse and takes a long time, in their case it took the Conservatives to revitalise them and get them back in the game. Who can the DUP find?”

    If you call getting your vote from 15% to 17% revitalisation then good luck to you.

  • emanonon

    WR

    I think any reversal of a such rapid decline is a revitalisation, it may have some way to go but up is up and not down like others.

  • Erasmus

    Paisley and Muhammad Ali always sort of reminded me of one another. The analogy has become poignantly starker.

  • Zoon Politikon

    Its all good and free PR for the TUV. Or conversely Paisley can’t lose – if he wins he can say he still have the support of the people, if he looses he can claim his God took pity on him and allowed him to rest or whatever mumbojumbo he cares to explain it away.

  • danielmoran

    driftwood msg 14. very true. i couldn’t believe it last night on the alleged debate programme ‘let’s give in to DUP blackmail’. ian [Own Goal]paisley sat smugly in the knowledge that the blackmail of the bbc producers had worked, and the elephant in the room[the euro election debacle], was ignored for a whole hour.
    what credibility has carruthers and the bbc producers got left after this spineless travesty.
    on the re-entry of paisley snr, he had little option but to stand against sunny jim, as he couldn’t be seen to run away from allister. Still, it shows the contempt he has for the rest of the party ‘big hitters’ that he didn’t see any of them as winning against his nemesis on his right. pathetic is it not?

  • Neil

    Daniel,

    it’s the embarrasment of the defeat of his son he’s keen to avoid. Paisley Senior might, just might carry enough of his old voters with him. Paisley Jr.? No chance, most normal folk on the ground don’t care for him. He was always going to have to live in his da’s shadow, and that’s what it will boil down to.

    Couple Junior’s odious nature and unlikeability, his distinct lack of charisma and the fact that in Jim Allister the competition will be stiff, the simple truth is in Ian Senior’s absence Ian Junior would a) run and b) lose. Seems to me the only option might be sending in Big Ian in the hope that the pavlovian instinct kicks in when folks are in the voting booth.

    I don’t reckon any of the Paisley’s would be too concerned about money or fleecing expenses. They made their money back in the days when working class Unionism still thought Big Ian was working for their benefit instead of his own and that of his family.

  • Driftwood

    DanielMoran

    Agree about the programme

    Last nights ‘let’s Talk’ was practically a PPB for Ian Jr.

  • danielmoran

    neil… msg 25. Can’t argue with much of that, neil. in a recent interview ian snr. gave the game away completely, as when asked how far into the future he thought a united ireland was likely, his answer was a bit too revealing. he said, and i believe i’m quoting verbatim, ‘thirty or forty years at least, and after that it won’t matter, because i won’t be here anymore’
    charming. i wonder how many dup voters thought that was his view.

  • Big Maggie

    Daniel,

    “charming. i wonder how many dup voters thought that was his view.”

    Are we surprised? The man is a liar. His whole life was and is a lie. He lied to his congregation each and every Sunday. He lied about his Christianity, which is nothing but a mask lightly covering his hatred of others. He lied to his constituents when he said “never” and then climbed into bed with Sinn Féin.

    Will he fool the DUP voters again? Very probably.

  • danielmoran

    big maggie…. aye there’s the rub, as shakespeare said. you can’t help dup voters from themselves it seems. they’re a different breed.
    it’s curious because in the end, it’s not nationalists who were most betrayed by him [obviously expecting nothing from him] but his own co religionists. look how many ended up in jail after following his lead for decades. ironic eh!

  • Big Maggie

    Daniel,

    “his own co religionists. look how many ended up in jail after following his lead for decades.”

    True, and it goes to prove there’s one born again every minute :^)

  • pete whitcroft

    Gerry Adams could win on a split vote. Living in Belfast shouldn’t harm his cause.

  • Different Drummer

    Mr Pete W

    As I was saying on another thread – having SF & Gerry A win a Stormont election by default would be ideal for the backwoods men who back the TUV as it would be very easy for them to out flank out organize and ultimately out vote London’s latest pro DUP settlement. People will then say that’s the way it must be – the kicking party or nothing… our very own Ulsterish BNP.

    Because as I and others have been posting in the end the biggest bigot will always win as long as this state exists.

  • pete whitcroft

    DD
    if the state ceases to exist, it will be a federal entity within an Irish state, the biggest bigot will have a stronger vote then on the unionist side, so utopia for nats. won’t come in a hurry either way.

  • Different Drummer

    Mr Pete

    This state is not reformable – that is what the success of TUV and the re-emergence of the Ultras will prove.

    As to alternatives SF and IRA have proved that they are not an alternative.

    The project of Slugger and the anti new ultras (and anti failed ultras) is a liberal democracy – which this state is not and will never be as long as the *Loyalist* Ultra tail wags the Westminster dog.

  • danielmoran

    different….. exactly. what they’ve been doing with agreements for 35 yrs is using band aid on a gaping wound. it’ll NEVER solve this.

  • Different Drummer

    Mr Pete2

    I’m assuming that your understanding of ‘the biggest bigot’ having his/her vote strengthened will mean that Donegal will be able to vote ultra unionist again – possible but the figures and existing voting patterns suggest otherwise – Donegal and the North West tends to have to favor independents rather than follow the mainstream.

    In any case the opposite of what you say is much more likely in a federal all Ireland context Nationalists/republicans will stop voting for SF as a sectarian reaction. The impoverished and the dispossessed will take action and vote accordingly – as they all ready have done in Dublin by voting out Mary Lou.

    Why because things have changed- who would have thought that SF ‘professionalism’ would be read as Gombeenism…

    Anyway Pete post back

  • Dr Thomas J McCarry

    Please don’t call him ‘Dr’.

    It is not deserved as it represents a huge injustice to those who have have studied diligently over a period of several years.

    The award of a doctorate is the culmination of rigorous academic research. It is not to be diminished.