Dhá Ghaelbhagathóirí i ngleic le chéile fá chúrsaí Grammada

Tá dhá Ghaelbhagadóirí i ngleic le chéile ar cheist na Gramadaí, tá an saol Gaelach ó Chléire go Ros scoilte ar an ábhar, thosaigh sé nuair a chuir Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin (yes, the singer!) in iúl dúinn gur shíl seisean go bhfuil “cur chuige laissez faire” ag Concubhar Ó Liatháin thall ar iGaeilge. Tig Concubhar ar ais le dearcadh s’aige féin – Sotal agus eirí in airde i ngort na Gaeilge. Silím féin má tá tú ag blagáil agus muise tá daoine ag blagáil go bhfuil an cheart agat blagáil cibé dóigh ab mhaith leat agus fair play duit.

Ag an am céanna, más ag ceapadh blagadóireacht mar chuid de mheán cumarsáide na Gaeilge atá muid silím féin gur cheart do dhaoine iarracht a dhéanamh a bheith chomh beacht agus is féidir.

Tá measarthacht ar gach rud is dócha.

Tuigím áfach go bhfuil sé doiligh a dhéanamh. Tá daoine ag ceartú mo chuid Gaeilge i dtólamh agus tá le fiche bhliain, cha chuireann sé isteach nó amach orm ach éiríonn sé tuirsiúil is dócha, rud mí-nadúrtha amach is amach dar liomsa. Deirfinn go bhfuil difear ann idir a bheith ag súil le Gaeilge scríofa a bheith beacht agus a bheith ag dúil le Gaeilge labhartha a bheith foirfe? Bhur mbarúileacha?

Ní féidir a shéanadh go bhfuil an galar de nós seo beo leis i saol na Gaeilge go fóill, is mór mo dhíoma fá sin.

  • Sílim go bhfuil tú ag dul thar fóir ag maíomh go bhfuilim imithe i ngleic le Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin faoin ngramadach.

  • Gael gan Náire

    “Sílim go bhfuil tú ag dul thar fóir ag maíomh go bhfuilim imithe i ngleic le Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin faoin ngramadach.”

    Is gné suntasach denar gcultúr é seo faraor agus caithfear a phlé ach ní raibh mé ag iarraidh a bheith ro-dháirire faoi.

  • Is cinnte go bhfuil poinnte le plé – agus ar bhealach baineann sé leis an scéal seo – a foilsíodh san Irish Times Dé Máirt inar mhaigh an Ollamh nua le Siceolaíocht ag Ollscoil Luimní gur bhain daoine úsáid as an nGaeilge chun daoine a eisiamh ó chomhráití agus ón Éireannachas. Ní chreidim go bhfuil sin fíor – ach tugaim faoi ndeara go bhfuil cadre i measc na nGaeil atá chomh geanmnaí sin nár mhaith leo éinne an Ghaeilge a labhairt nó a úsáid sa réimse phoiblí ach iad san atá an teanga acu go cruinn is go beacht.

    What I’m saying is that Professor Muldoon, see above hyper link, stated in her inaugural lecture that she believed that people used the Irish language to exclude people from being ‘Irish’. I don’t believe that’s true – though I do acknowledge that there’s an attitude prevalent in some Irish language quarters which adapts the view that Irish should only be spoken or used in public by those who have perfect Irish. This attitude is, I believe, the most significant obstacle inhibiting the progress of the Irish language throughout Ireland.
    Áirímse go bhfuil an dearcadh seo tar éis go leor dochair a dhéanamh d’fhás agus d’fhorbair na Gaeilge agus gurb é an bac is mó ar an dtoirt chriticiúil a bhaint amach a chiallódh go mbeadh glacadh forleathan ar éilimh phobal na Gaeilge, fiú nach mbeadh conspóíd ina dtaobh.

    Ní doigh liom go bhfuil sé ceart nó cóir cead a chinn a thabhairt don dearcadh seo ar an idirlíon le h-iarrachtaí mhacánta a chur ó mhaith.

  • Gael gan Náire

    Agus aontaím leat.

    Ach nuair atá lucht na gramadaí do mo cheartú féin, deirimise ‘go raibh maith agat’ agus bógaim ar aghaidh ag rá ‘wanker’ faoi m’anal.

    Seo an rud áfach, nuair a bhí mise ag blagáil ar mo bhlag féin sríobh mé ar Word i dtoiseach báire agus rinne mé an litriú a sheiceáil ann. Gheobhaidh tú 90% de mheáncógaí an bealach sin.

    Ba mhaith liom an dá rud, Gaeilge bheacht agus deireadh le lucht na gramadaí – is féidir an dá rud seo anois agus an teicneolaíocht againn.

  • Le soiléirú a dhéanamh: ní ghabhfainnse isteach ar bhlag duine eicínt agus ceartú a dhéanamh ar an méíd a bhí scríofa ann – ní dhearna mé é sin i gcás iGaeilge, mar go n-aireoinn gur rud maslach a bheadh ann a leithéidí sin a dhéanamh. An rud a tharla ná seo – thug mé an comhfhreagras a leanas faoi deara:
    http://igaeilge.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/maorlathas-mire-an-fhorais-ag-fas-leis/#comments

    An duine seo “Cothromaíocht” ag ceartú ghramadach Choncubhair. Agus an freagra ó fhear Chúil Aodha:
    “Ní raibh a fhios agam go raibh ‘inscne’ ag an idirlíon – cá bhfios duit nach bhfuil sí baininscneach?”

    Thriail mé, ar bhealach sibhialta, a shíl mé, an feiniméan seo a phlé. An bhfuil ciall nó réasún le cur chuige “Cothromaíocht”? An bhfuil an ceart ag Concubhar gan sásamh ar bith a thabhairt dó?

    Tá aiféala orm gur cheap Concubhar gur ag iarraidh é a mhaslú a bhí sé – ní shin a bhí i gceist. Ach ní thugann sé sin an ceart dó a bheith ag cur in iúl go bhfuil mise ag dul thart le peann dearg i mo láimh, fiú mura bhfuil ann ach peann dearg meafarach, ag caitheamh anuas ar dhaoine a bhfuil corr “h” in easnamh orthu thall is abhus. Ní thugann sé an ceart dó a bheith ag cur in iúl go bhfuil cur chuige sotalach agam a fhéachann le foghlaimeoirí Gaeilge a chur ó dhoras.

    To conclude: When I saw, last week, Concubhar Ó Liatháin, a former editor of an Irish-language daily newspaper (in fairness, how many people have that claim to fame?) being hounded by a card-carrying member of the Language Police, I found Concubhar’s response interesting. When the LP officer pointed out to Concubhar that the word “idirlíon” was, in fact, a masculine noun, Eagarthóir iGaeilge was having none of it. “How do you know the word “idirlíon” is a masculine noun?” he quipped. “For all you know, it may well be feminine!”

    Which was funny, in a way. But as they say in California, here’s the thing – English is one of the few languages in Europe that doesn’t divide it’s nouns into groups deemed masculine and feminine (Germans also have a neuter group, but let’s not go there).

    For monoglot English speakers learning Irish, this masculine/feminine arrangement when referring to nouns that are decidely asexual, seems like a ridiculous inconvenience – and understandably so. Why indeed, should a table be considered masculine and a window feminine? (no Freudian analysis, please).

    But – but, dear members of the jury, a former editor of an Irish language daily newspaper might, just might be expected, to know how the grammar of the language works – or if not to know, to be open to finding out. Mightn’t he?

    There are people who work in translation circles in particular, who become obsessive/compulsive about Irish language grammar. They seem to be able to read material without any regard to the content, focussing solely on the quality of the language itself. This, as I pointed out last week, is an unfortunate affliction.

    On the other hand, Irish is a complex language and as many adult learners of Irish, in North America in particular, depend on the internet for reading material, I expressed a concern about confusing them more than is necessary, by taking an overly-relaxed approach to writing the language. I suggested that it would be an idea to find a balance between the obsessive approach of the Language Police and the “Grammar me arse” school of journalism as espoused by iGaeilge.

  • I will write this in English to avoid the pitfalls of writing in Irish which does not meet the high standards of others. I too strive towards high standards, not least in my grammar but also in the precision of language, an important trait in journalism.

    I do not espouse the ‘Grammar me arse’ school of journalism. The fact that this is placed in quotation marks by Tadhg gives the impression that this is taken from my site. I don’t know where it comes from – but it doesn’t come from iGaeilge.

    I have never said I don’t care about grammar. I have said that I am on a learning curve and that I do my best. Sometimes, perhaps even frequently, the incorrect gender is ascribed to a word which results in it being misspelt. Even though this happens, the meaning of the word is clear to the vast majority of readers.

    I write quickly. That’s always been my habit as I’ve spent years working in a newspaper environment and in that time I’ve worked with proof readers and sub editors who’ve cleared up any grammatical errors or misspellings and the like. They’ve left me to be accurate with the facts and as correct as possible with the grammar.

    That safety net isn’t available any more. But I still write quickly. In the interests of learners and the like, following Tadhg’s criticism, I’ve published a Grammatical and Style Warning on my site. This should forewarn any unsuspecting Irish language learner from North America who stumbles upon iGaeilge. If such a learner were to stay, he or she may be entertained and infuriated even by my views but won’t be able to say that they weren’t warned.

    Where I most objected to Tadhg’s intervention in the running of my site, is his suggestion that ‘my upbringing’ was responsible for my errant ways. My errant ways are my own responsibility. Tadhg doesn’t know anything about my upbringing and his comments led me to believe that he was tarring my family and neighbours with the sin of bad grammar. The fact that he didn’t know, for instance, my father and my grandmother, two of the most fluent Irish speakers I’ve encountered in my life and both deceased, didn’t cause him to pause before commenting on ‘my upbringing’. This, I felt, was arrogant on his part.

    He made his intervention under the guise of discussing the possibilities of finding ‘a balance between the obsessive approach of the Language Police and the “Grammar me arse” school of journalism as espoused by iGaeilge’. This, it seemed to me, was akin to the efforts of the broadsheet quality press to titilate their readers by discussing the salacious aspects of their trashy tabloid cousins.

    In his latest contribution Tadhg refers twice to my status as a former editor of Lá and seems to suggest that I should know better given my cv. The fact is I was hired not so much for my command of Irish language, though I do know my ‘modh coinniollach’, but for my qualities as a journalist, such as they are. It’s very difficult to get quality Irish speakers who are also quality journalists as most of the highest qualified Irish speakers become translators of unread official documents from English to Irish and vice versa, the salaries being much higher there than could ever be hoped for in the Irish language print media.

  • Gael gan Náire

    Bhíos ag iarraidh a bheag a dhéanamh den ábhar seo dáirire.

    Theip orm.

  • Gael gan Náire

    Bhíos ag iarraidh a bheag a dhéanamh den ábhar seo dáirire.

    Theip orm.

  • Tá a fhios agam, tá a fhios agam. Bhí sé de cheart agam mo chlab a choinneáil dúnta. Ciall cheannaithe!