“We may in fact have to accept that..”

Whilst I’ve noted that some have already suggested we might be looking at something similar to the IRA campaign in the 1950s, at the Guardian’s Politics Blog Henry McDonald has another suggested comparison.

Eta’s current nihilistic campaign probably provides an even better comparison. We may in fact have to accept that – just as Spain and the Basque country will be shaken occasionally by the odd Eta outrage – the same goes for Northern Ireland and extremist republican groups. Basque nationalism has actually enjoyed more compromises from the Spanish state in the areas of language, culture and devolved power than Irish nationalists experience presently under their own devolved settlement. But for those in Euskadi who dream of an independent UN-recognised state straddling the Pyrenees the struggle must go on. And just as the uncompromising Etarras (militants) will continue with their futile terror, so too will an eternally insolent minority on the republican fringe.

The Provisional IRA fought for almost 30 years to drive the British presence out of Northern Ireland by force of arms and they failed. They did so because they had to learn the slow and hard way that the “British presence” was in essence those in the north-east corner of the island who wanted to remain within the UK. The Provisionals have thus turned from enforcers of a united Ireland into persuaders. Those running and those executing this renewed armed campaign will also fail to realise their goal. Yet it would be a mistake to fall into the postmodern trap of dismissing the importance of ideology as a motivating factor for this present bout of murder and misery that most people on the island never wanted and hoped was finally behind them.

Of course, leaving aside the discussion on ideology, neither comparison will be comfortable for Sinn Féin..

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  • Gregory

    My first human rights cmpaigs dates to the Burgos death sentences.

    Don’t Batasuna, do far better than SF in elections, if we take the SF vote over the island, are they that far behind, SF in the north?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    but we don’t have to accept incompetent demands by the Nationalist community for a scale down of security. That is why the 2 soldiers were killed on Saturday.

    If the army bases were manned and the guards armed like they are in mainland UK, the dissident terrorists wouldn’t have carried out such a discriminate act of murder. They most certainly wouldn’t have move forwards to finish the wounded off.

  • fin

    “The Provisional IRA fought for almost 30 years to drive the British presence out of Northern Ireland by force of arms and they failed”

    mmh, hard to know where you and Henry pick up the thread of Irish history Pete, obviously its after the pogroms, the fairly non-existant IRA’s attempts to to defend nationalist area’s from been burnt out and the deployment of the British army as initially defenders of the nationalist community.

    Obviously Irelands history is long and varied, and both you and Henry do need to pick a starting point, but I would have thought that a more relevant beginning would have been the mid-60’s and the re-founding of the UVF.

    Otherwise people might get the impression that a load of nationalists woke up one morning and decided to use violence against a kind and benevolent government to achieve independence, and that would be silly wouldn’t it.

    With regards to the Basque region, following their support for the elected republican government during the civil war they were then brutally treated by Franco for decades. they have little love for Spain, and who can blame them.

  • Eddie

    If the British Terrorists removed there terror bases to there own country, they would not be shot at, I thought they were to dismantle them all, if not what is the peace proccess for. They have no mandate they have no right to be in Ireland with there murder wepons.

  • facts

    Mr Carlin,

    Batasuna were outlawed in 2003!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Eddie, the majority of N.Ireland’s population choose to be British, so they are our bases. If you don’t see them as your base, don’t deprive the majority of N.Ireland the right to choose who and what they part of.

  • hartshill

    “…eternal insolent minority…”

    Ah yes,insolence is an understandable stance for any Irish person dealing with British government or its forces in Ireland as opposed to McGuinness and Adams, forelock tugging to the ‘great and the good’.

    Adams is now talking about ‘isolating’ people something he used rail against. What next, censorship?

  • Tory

    Eddie,

    You are one of the people for whose benefit the following two sentences in the article above were written:

    “The Provisional IRA fought for almost 30 years to drive the British presence out of Northern Ireland by force of arms and they failed. They did so because they had to learn the slow and hard way that the “British presence” was in essence those in the north-east corner of the island who wanted to remain within the UK.”

    I suggest that you keep re-reading them until you finally understand.

  • Scaramoosh

    Having endured McDonald’s recent book on the N.Ireland conflict, easily one of the worst that I have ever read on the subject, I approach his musings with somthing of a jaundiced eye.

    McDonald belongs firmly in the camp that likes to ignore the transition that was made by the IRA under Adams, from blind terrorists ro political realists. Instead of chronicaling the long and hard journey of transition, he likes to portray it as a defeat, pure and simple.

    It is hard to know what to make of this rather nonsensical statement;

    “Yet it would be a mistake to fall into the postmodern trap of dismissing the importance of ideology as a motivating factor for this present bout of murder and misery that most people on the island never wanted and hoped was finally behind them.”

    Wht would anybody dismiss the notion of ideology, when the foundations upon which the current outbreak of violence are built, is more than likely to be found on Page 509 of Moloney’s “A secret history of the IRA.”

    For those that do not have a copy of the book to hand, this page contains a famous speech legitimising the armed struggle.

    But any armed struggle, must have a recognisable end, and must go hand in hand with a political strategy. This is what Adams realised and put into operation. The current band of killers are guilty of ideology for ideologies sake. Accordingly, their actions are a prime example of the banality of evil.

  • mourneful

    Among the more than 500 mourners inside the Roman Catholic Church of St. Therese were politicians from Sinn Fein, the IRA-linked party that had never attended a police funeral before. The dissidents largely live in working-class Catholic districts. Stevenson, standing beside Carroll’s white rose-covered coffin, led prayers calling for the policeman’s family to find peace in their faith, and for the community to help police catch his killers.

    Northern Ireland’s Police Commander Hugh Orde addressed the funeral, pledging to the officer’s widow, Kate, that ”we will not forget him.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/13/world/AP-EU-Northern-Ireland.html

  • picador

    It’s facile to equate the situation in the Basque country and that in Ireland.

    The Spanish authorities only contain ETA with a massive amount of repression, e.g. suspending freedom of the press, freedom of organisation, use of torture, imprisoning people for their expressing their political views, hounding Basque prisoners (e.g. Inaki de Jauna Chaos).

    That is simply not the case in Ireland today.

    In addition we have a political settlement the people, north and south, voted that NI would remain part of the UK until the majority decided otherwise.

    Basques voted against the Spanish constitution back in 1978. This constitution states that Spain is indivisible. A minority of Basques continue to believe that autonomy bestowed on the Basque region by Madrid is a poor substitute for independence. In addition there is the issue of Navarre (a traditional Basque province) which is separated from the rest of the Basque country at the behest non-Basque majority (a kind of partition scenario).

    I am not an advocate of ETA. Their violence is counter-productive and their negotiating stance does not reflect their current weakness. But the Basque situation lags far behind our own, mainly because Madrid continues to insist that Euskadi is an integral part of Spain, while the British harbour no such illusions about this place.

  • Gregory

    “Mr Carlin,

    Batasuna were outlawed in 2003!”

    And their vote was what?

    SF have it a lot easier, they haven’t had to do a 24 hr re-jig on a name in a considerable period of time.

    I assume they would lose much but transfer into non-proscribed parties, the ‘surviving’ vote would be greater than SF?

    The vote would have a short key-in (of hours?) to prevent prohibition. There will be a vote of some kind there.

    I don’t Henry, gave the impression, that considerable support exists for radical Basque politics.

    That was a slightly chalk and cheese comparison on his part?

  • Gregory

    “But the Basque situation lags far behind our own, mainly because Madrid continues to insist that Euskadi is an integral part of Spain, while the British harbour no such illusions about this place”

    That’s true, and important, and if anything ETA support is ‘stronger’ than SF support, as a revolutionary commodity.

    SF did not have Franco to deal with.

  • Gregory

    “But any armed struggle, must have a recognisable end”

    Not true, perpetual war is a recognized phenomena, 1984 had it, it can be directed eternally, internally or both. The idea of war without end, that’s a working philosophy. Even Star Trek had an episode about it.

  • Paul

    The Provisional IRA fought for almost 30 years to drive the British presence out of Northern Ireland by force of arms and they failed. They did so because they had to learn the slow and hard way that the “British presence” was in essence those in the north-east corner of the island who wanted to remain within the UK.

    No the Provisional IRA fought for 30 years for a full right as citizens of the UK including the right to have a say in government and the right to secede

  • jo

    same all discution, will this ever change?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    LOL @ Paul. Did you never read the IRA green book?

  • mourneful

    Among the more than 500 mourners inside the Roman Catholic Church of St. Therese were politicians from Sinn Fein, the IRA-linked party that had never attended a police funeral before.

    I’m guessing it’s not the Mourne Mountains you’re from. Maybe the River Mourne a hundred miles way?

    You shouldn’t quote incorrect stuff from foreign newspapers. Sinn Féin were represented at the four funerals of the PSNI crash-victims last November. They crashed, you’ll no doubt remember, close to the Mournes!

  • hartshill

    Paul
    “No the Provisional IRA fought for 30 years for a full right as citizens of the UK including the right to have a say in government and the right to secede”

    That’s it Paul, all the IRA ever wanted was to be good subjects of Lizzie a ‘an a wee bit a respect’. You should tell the whole story, the IRA never fought a dirty war, they didn’t believe in guns and things or bombs or dissapearing mothers like Jean McConville or fathers like Charlie Armstrong. Of course not, in their ‘struggle’ to be good U.K subjects they used only the rosary, the power or prayer and now they are calling for good Irish mothers to use womb power and outbreed them other crowd.
    Paul, you must have been talking to the dept of revisionism in Connnolly house ( hear they’re going to change that to Mountbatten house).

  • picador

    You should tell the whole story, the IRA never fought a dirty war, they didn’t believe in guns and things or bombs or dissapearing mothers like Jean McConville or fathers like Charlie Armstrong.

    Sure you were in favour of all that, hartshill, so why are you crying about it now?

  • Paul

    I never said that was their goal just the result

    They have been doing a much better job of wrecking union rule by standing in the tent pissing out then when they were standing outside pissing in

  • Ulsters my homeland

    While our attention has focused on these horrible deaths over the past week, I wonder if anyone has followed up on the protest held in Belfast on the 4th, by the Paul Quinn Support Group?

    They were distributing bills criticising Conor Murphy’s refusal to give names to Gardai of those whom he (Murphy) claimed assured him that the IRA did not kill Mr Quinn.

  • Paul

    Give it up. You’re deluded and that’s the reality, not that you’re involved in revisionism.

    You’re like Gerry Adams in that.

  • Ulter’s my homeland

    That Paul Quinn protest was covered on local tv news.

    Paul Quinn’s murder was the last act of a dying Antichrist.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “That Paul Quinn protest was covered on local tv news.”

    and what?

  • Sorry link’s not working.

    To find the Antichrist try clicking on my name and then Revelation and then Why Gerry Adams is the Antichrist.

  • UMH

    That’s all I know at the moment.

  • Twilightoftheprods

    Re Gerry Adams AntiChrist

    Heretic! Using the letterology interpretation as revealed to me by the angel Tetraanagramatron one night whilst walking home from the Duke of York, I can reveal that Gerry Adams is infact the anointed one – as ANTICHRIST is merely an anagram of CHRISTIAN. And a bloody obvious one at that. I must now go and continue implanting fake trilobite fossils on the Antrim coast, the better to test the faithful. My final commentary on your ramblings can be taken from the good book – John 11:35.

  • Dave

    “The Provisional IRA fought for almost 30 years to drive the British presence out of Northern Ireland by force of arms and they failed. They did so because they had to learn the slow and hard way that the “British presence” was in essence those in the north-east corner of the island who wanted to remain within the UK.” – Henry McDonald

    He is just repeating the official propaganda that obfuscates a national identity with a sovereign state. British rule is not the protestant community or those who identify themselves as British, but rather it is sovereignty residing with a foreign parliament. Therefore, the conflict is not internal, despite attempts to portray the role of the colonial power as an irrelevance, but remains, as it has always been, external.

    Under this guise, acceptance of a sense of British national identity is proffered as being an acceptance of the legitimacy of British rule, as if both were in fact the same thing. It does not follow that because a minority on the island regard themselves as British that the British state must hold sovereignty, no more than it follows that a minority being Polish means that the Polish government must have a constitutional role in Ireland’s internal affairs.

    Indeed, the propaganda is self-contradicting since the “Irish presence” is denied sovereignty while the “British presence” is not. If one must have sovereignty on that basis, then so must the other – and since both cannot, the argument is self-cancelling.

    So, the propaganda has repudiated Irish nationalisms core claim that Ireland has one nation that is comprised of two traditions to stating that it has two nations (it actually has several hundred at present) and that each is entitled to a separate state or else both are entitled to one state which they must “share” between them. This, of course, is complete gibberish since it requires that the Irish nation dismantle its nation-state and place itself among the stateless nations of the world, so that those who are British may have a second ‘homeland’ in addition to GB.

    That propaganda would actually be funny if the British State didn’t murder a multitude to promote it.

  • Try clicking on the Gerry Adams link here

  • Binglebee

    Dave you are a complete feckin idiot. Wake up, it’s 2009. Well past time for your poor-croppie ramblings to be put away.

    BTW, don’t worry about any ‘man/ball’ rule here as no man is involved it’s only Dave.

  • Secret Squirrel

    John,
    I’d be happy to assist you with any queries you may have as regards website structuring and hyperlinking.
    I can see where you’re going wrong. :o)
    This might not be the place to do it though. I think they’re discussing sensible issues and might become somewhat peeved with us. :O(

  • Twilightoftheprods

    Try here for Ian Paisley as the false prophet whose name comes out at 666.

  • Uriop

    Basque nationalism has actually enjoyed more compromises from the Spanish state in the areas of language, culture

    Which is precisely as it should be and should remain so, due to the fact that it is not the case that 55% of the Basque country are not ethnic Basque.

  • Secret Squirrel

    A bit of humour does no harm and so thanks Dave.

    If anyone can refute in any intelligent way my claim to have discovered that Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley are the two beasts of Revelation, I double dare them to make the argument and will forever more ensure that they obtain eternal life – well, that’s as good as it gets.

  • Uriop

    and devolved power than Irish nationalists experience presently under their own devolved settlement.

    The devolved settlement is not the sole property of the Irish nationalist minority. This is where the analogy breaks done. The Basque situation would be equivalent to the Ireland as a whole being within the UK with devolved powers except for counties Cork and Kerry being part of France.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    John O’Connell, you’re quite obsessed with the identity of the Anti-christ. Hope you find it!

    Any news on the developments of the Paul Quinn group’s requests?

  • Alan – Newtownards

    Dave,

    What have the “irish nation” done over the years to make my tradition feel part of the “irish nation”?

    I know a number of elderly Unionist’s who moved north of the border as they could not give their allegiance to this “irish nation”. I am a opened minded Unionist yet I struggle with this one size fits all kind of irishness. The green, white and orange republican irishness not for me. My allegiances lie elsewhere.

  • Orangeman in the South

    For the first time in nearly 100 years the Irish Government met with the Orange Order. The Orange Order is a part of Irish life, it is supposed to have representation in the Irish tricolour, but surprisingly it takes 100 years to be recognised as a citizen.

  • Rory Carr

    Whenever I consider the actions of dissident republicans post-GFA I can’t help but be reminded of Tom Sawyer’s zany plan to free the runaway slave, Jim, from his captivity in a woodshed in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. To effect Jim’s escape it is a small matter of removing the window boards of the shed and allowing him to exit but Tom won’t have it. Why? Because it ain’t the way it’s done in the best escapes in the adventure books.

    They walk around the little cabin where Jim is being kept. There is a window with just one board across it; Huck says he can take off the board and have Jim crawl out the window. This escape is too simple for Tom, though; he wants something more complicated and mysterious than that, something that takes a good long time. They see a shed next to the cabin and they break in. It doesn’t connect to the cabin where Jim is being kept. They decide to dig a tunnel through to the cabin. This will take about a week, so Tom is satisfied.

    The dissidents are not happy that unity is there for the taking – all that is required is the agreement of their fellow countrymen and there is no obstacle to promoting unity nor any prohibition on attempts at persuasion. But no! They gotta do it by the book – the old book that says first you kill a soldier or two, then you kill a policeman or two, then you bomb a shop or two, then you all go to gaol and bemoan the people for selling you out, then when you’re free again and old and mean and miserable you sell the whole damned miserable story to discontented young ones from the same old book.

    If Ireland were united tomorrow with the willing assent of all – protestant, catholic and dissenter they would still not be satisfied because it wasn’t done the right way with plenty of shooting and bombing and unionists forcibly coerced into a state they would resent and rebel against at every opportunity.

    Goddamn! but those miserable deluded bastards do get me mad sometimes.

  • Uriop

    Paul

    No the Provisional IRA fought for 30 years for a full right as citizens of the UK including the right to have a say in government and the right to secede

    No, they always had the same right to a say in government as do voters of Plaid Cymru today, and the right to secede was present in Government of Ireland Act 1920, the Ireland Act 1949 as well as the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

  • Reader

    Eddie: I thought they were to dismantle them all, if not what is the peace proccess for. They have no mandate they have no right to be in Ireland with there murder wepons.
    Well, shorn of the emotive terminology, it was all in the Good Friday Agreement, British Army garrison included. If you voted for the GFA, perhaps you should have read it. If you voted against it, you lost. If you didn’t vote – too late now; but there are elections to tidy up round the edges.

  • second-class Irish citizen

    “[b]We may in fact have to accept that…[/b]bggds

  • Uriop

    No, they always had the same right to a say in government as do voters of Plaid Cymru today

    What they DID win was the equivalent of all parties in the Welsh Assembly designating as either nationalist or unionist, a “duel veto” along those lines, and distribution of devolved ministries along a Swiss style allocation system, as opposed to what happens today in the present Scottish and Welsh assemblies, or happened in the old Stormont.

  • second-class Irish citizen

    [b]“We may in fact have to accept that…[/b]Leaders of the Orange Order are to have their first official meeting with the Irish Government. Senior members of the Order said they were meeting Irish Education Minister Batt O’Keeffe to discuss proposed cuts in grants to Protestant schools.

    what did that orange part of the flad stand for?

  • second class irish citizens

    The Orange were not allowed their human rights for over 100 years, and it still continues.

  • Uriop

    @Dave

    Your analysis is correct. However the missing piece that McDonald adds is the belief in universal human rights. That everyone has equal rights, specifically in relation to self determination. You appear not to believe this, but that rights accord to stones and rocks and fields, if not Blut und Boden then at least Boden.

  • second class irish citizens

    [b]Green state for a Green people[/b]

  • Secret Squirrel

    I’d agree John that most of us like a good laugh. Try removing the spaces from your filenames and those who haven’t seen the funny article may do so. :o)
    ( I don’t believe in gods but it’s nice to be nice.)

  • Do I detect the early faint rumblings of a new journalistic masterpiece about the basque region?
    God help the poor basque people. Forty years of fascism( it wasn,t defeated in europe in 1945!!), and now they might be the subject of a book from Henry mcDonald.
    Is there no end of misery for this warm, sophisticated nation.

  • Plastic Paddy

    What have the “irish nation” done over the years to make my tradition feel part of the “irish nation”?

    Oh dear, here we go. How about:

    1)Putting your colour on the national flag. (!)

    2)Quoting from the 1916 proclamation –
    “The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.”

    3)This one protects your Orange Order -Quoting from the 1937 constitution, article 40:
    “The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights . . . [t]he right of the citizens to form associations and unions . . . Laws regulating the manner in which the right of forming associations and unions and the right of free assembly may be exercised shall contain no political, religious or class discrimination.”

    My question for you is, what has the “british nation” done over the years to make your tradition feel part of the “british nation”?

    1) used you as cannon fodder in foreign wars
    2) (having trouble thinking of anything else)

  • Paul

    No, they always had the same right to a say in government as do voters of Plaid Cymru today, and the right to secede was present in Government of Ireland Act 1920, the Ireland Act 1949 as well as the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

    Posted by Uriop on Mar 13, 2009 @ 05:50 PM

    And you try and accuse me of being a revisionist.

    Theoretically you may be correct in practical terms its bald faced balderdash

  • SEcret Squirrel

    Many thanks. I’ll try invoking Gerry Adams the Antichrist here.

  • Paul

    You are wrong John!!! I am distinctly anti religion

    so surely I must be the anti-christ

  • Paul

    I certainly got the impression last evening that you were evil but as for being the Antichrist I think not. Satan yes, Antichrist no.

    But try your name on my numeric alphabet at the link above and if it comes to 666, as Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley’s do, then drink some holy water and bathe in the waters of Lough Derg. Then topple Gerry as the leader of Sinn Fein. At least you might have some militant balls left on you.

  • Secret Squirrel

    John,
    Gerry Adams is no more an antichrist than I am myself.
    Unfortunately, having read through your site, I think you’re convinced otherwise and you genuinely believe in what you’ve written on your website. I’m at a loss as to what to suggest.
    But – we need to knock this correspondence on the head. It’s not the place for such discussions and some contributers will get freaked out. Look after yourself.
    I won’t be posting anything more on this matter. :O(

    Gerry

  • Secret Squirrel

    Gerry Adams is no more an antichrist than I am myself.

    Don’t worry about replying to this. But you’re right and technically that is what I suggested on my website.

    The propecy goes that Gerry “was, now is not, and yet will come” and means that Gerry may not now be acting as the Antichrist because of the peace process. But technically he went back to acting as the Antichrist (yet will come) after the Paul Quinn killing which he helped cover up.

    So what are you saying. He is an angel? A good man or someone who took his people into a war they couldn’t win and therefore sacrificed thousands of people for his ego. Is he still a good man?

  • Mr Smith

    The arming of UK service personnel at the gates will not stop attacks it only increases the intensity level, as the RIRA/CIRA will used upgraded munitions.

    As all would know to protect a base, you would need aggressive patrolling and a buffer zone between the base and hostile territory, the roads will have to have checkpoints. A major conflict in the Israeli and Palestinian conflict is the checkpoints, checkpoint raise the threat level of radicalism, they create ill will. That is why Defense Minister Barak stated they should build a tunnel from Gaza to the West Bank so the Palestinians can move unhindered.

    Once you are outside the wire then the risk of ambushes are current and ongoing, IED’s, EFP,s snipers, kidnappings etc. Even by have armed soldier at the gate an ambush of using modified by manipulating the rocket fuel/fuse RPG for air burst and conventional RPG for a frontal targeting. Therefore, as you fall back for cover from the conventional RPG the second air burst volley hits you with shrapnel. Two counter sniper teams controlling the arch armed with .50 DU rounds.

    They may even use the Katyusha Grad type rockets would still allow a strike capability with the CIRA/RIRA melting back into the population. Simple GPS guidance system and RC servos as simple as shifting weights inside the rockets can be installed in the rockets to make them more effective than the ones that Hamas use. Over the 20 km to impact calculated by the engine the device can be guided in via the GPS coordinates for a direct strike, the frequency used could be encoded, RC transceiver can be boosted to allow control from the 20 km distance but not the launch sight, as the launch team would have moved.

    They can make their own UAV out of harden waterproofed foam with infrared wireless cameras allowing real time access to what is going on day and night due to the light weight the flight time can be extended. They can be treated as non-retrievable device. Even thought they run by propellers, the can be launched off small catapults with a small rocket booster engine.

    Therefore, I think arming soldiers at the gate is not a solution, I think a deescalation is require that can only occur via Sinn Fein for the removal of UK military assets from NI, perhaps that will quiet down the Republicans.

  • Uriop

    @Paul

    “No, they always had the same right to a say in government as do voters of Plaid Cymru today, and the right to secede was present in Government of Ireland Act 1920, the Ireland Act 1949 as well as the Northern Ireland Act 1998.”

    And you try and accuse me of being a revisionist.

    Theoretically you may be correct in practical terms its bald faced balderdash

    Not at all. Under the Ireland Act 1949 for northern nationalists to gain unity required them to get sufficient votes, or sufficient coalition partners, to form the government at Stormont. Under the Northern Ireland Act 1998 it now requires them to get a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people within Northern Ireland.

    It may be the case that support for unity within Northern Ireland has increased since 1949, but this surely is mostly to do with the Pope’s teachings on contraception or other demographic factors rather than it does with anything gained by the campaign of the Provisional IRA.

    While the precise form of consent differs, the moral content of the condition is the same – unity if that’s what the majority in Northern Ireland want, otherwise part of the UK. It was this concept that led to outrage and large protests in the south on the passing of the Ireland Act 1949.
    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0115/D.0115.194905100042.html

    In contrast, the south has now formally accepted consent, however this is probably related to the hope that one day there will actually be consent whereas in 1949 such a thing seemed impossible even in the long term. However that difference has nothing to do with anything that the IRA achieved during, or in order to end, it’s campaign. Unless you wish to argue that the IRA campaign resulted in a disproportionate number of unionists emmigrating who would not have done so, or had some kind of effect on average total fetility rates.

  • Uriop

    It could also be argued that the Provisional’s campaign actually reduced the likelihood of such consent, by entrenching positions and reducing the number of nationalist Protestants, which if it were not for the campaign, would be higher than it’s present day 3%. I do not know, however on the surface it appears to be a viable, if hypothetical, argument. One must also take into account what affect, if any, it had on the number of unionist Catholics.

  • dewi

    Huge difference in Euskadi – Spain denies the right of the Basques for self-determination. When democracy isn;t an option then what do you do?

  • …but when the Rabbit actually took a watch out of its waistcoat-pocket, and looked at it, and then hurried on, Alice started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and fortunately was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge.

    In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.