“Political leadership will lead us away from this..”

John O’Dowd is making a better fist on Stormont Live than he did this morning with the hostile John Humphries; he came off second best with his protest that ‘he didn’t read English newspapers’. This afternoon, he’s backing the police searches. ‘These people will be captured’. And later, “You do not conduct a military agenda against people who are militarists. Political leadership will lead us away from this. And those who talk about a militarist solution rather than a political one, are manna from heaven to those people who killed Constable Carroll.”

  • Mr O’Dowd claims “You do not conduct a military agenda against people who are militarists.”

    Not quite right.

    First, they are not militarists. They are terrorists. I presume Mr O’Dowd finds that word a tad awkward.

    Second, the BEST solution against terrorists is to hunt them down and bring them to justice. Once behind bars, they tend not to kill with such impunity.

    Third, the people who killed Constable Carroll are the same sort of people who killed hundreds of other police officers. It is manna from heaven for Provos and their apologists if we let them steer the conversation away from this central fact. The killers of the Constable are most likely to have been trained by the IRA – why has the IRA not handed over all details to the lawful authorities.

    Mr O’Dowd should try reading “the English papers” – he might discover a bigger world beyond the narrow intolerance of Irish republicanism.

  • Scaramoosh

    “why has the IRA not handed over all details to the lawful authorities”.

    What, you honestly believe that each and everyone of these characters is not known by the intelligence services; just like they knew each and every Provo?

    You seem to be indulging in a little bit of the sack and ashes routine Mr Vance. Or are you asking for something more than mere names?

    Moreover, histroy teaches us that despaite the fact that these groups are infiltrated, does not mean that they are not capable of one off jobs/spectaculars …Downing Street/Manchester/Canary Warf spring to mind.

  • Neil

    Mr O’Dowd claims “You do not conduct a military agenda against people who are militarists.”

    Not quite right.

    First, they are not militarists. They are terrorists. I presume Mr O’Dowd finds that word a tad awkward.

    Second, the BEST solution against terrorists is to hunt them down and bring them to justice. Once behind bars, they tend not to kill with such impunity.

    In what way is O’Dowd suggesting we will not hunt them down and bring them to justice? This bit must have missed your attention: This afternoon, he’s backing the police searches. ‘These people will be captured’. So actually you are in agreement with O’Down then? Fucked if you’ll admit it though.

    Third, the people who killed Constable Carroll are the same sort of people who killed hundreds of other police officers. It is manna from heaven for Provos and their apologists if we let them steer the conversation away from this central fact. The killers of the Constable are most likely to have been trained by the IRA – why has the IRA not handed over all details to the lawful authorities.

    Wakey wakey. First of all, the IRA disbanded a few years ago. It probably passed you by as you were too busy talking and not listening, you should try transferring some cotton wool from your ears to your mouth. Second, do you think that the IRA is like a God or something? If Mi5 can’t figure out what’s happening, how is a disbanded group of CIRA/RIRAs enemies supposed to know what’s happening? It’s reasonably unlikely that the CIRA/RIRA did not send a memo to the non existant PIRA explaining their intentions, and detailing who would be involved.

    Your only motive, as always is to attack the Sinners. That’s alright, but don’t think your bullshit passes muster with normal folks who have a brain of their own.

    O’Dowd should try reading “the English papers” – he might discover a bigger world beyond the narrow intolerance of Irish republicanism.

    Hold the phone! David Vance with his mind so broad it can accept even the fattest credit card, criticising every Irish Republican for being narrow minded. ROFL, LOLLF I just pissed myself, honestly, that is genuinely as funny as it gets.

  • David Vance

    Scaramoosh,

    Suggest you stick to doing the fandango if that is the best you can come up with. Those who HOST the killers of the soldiers and Constable are remarkably mute, so we can conclude they will not hand over any info. Just like those who hosted IRA killers kept quiet.

    I do agree with your contention that these organisations have been infiltrated, we know that helped bring the Provos to their knees. But that does not absolve O’Dowd and his kin from doing the lawful and moral thing. I know they won’t because they can’t. And the REASON they can’t is because in the final analysis, the IRA / CIRA /RIRA are all brothers-in-arms.

  • Grassy Noel

    David Vance u iz sooo funny!!! lol! lol! lol!

    You are also a disgusting hypocrite given your love for lethal force when used against those your shallow emotional core can only process as enemies.

    I loved that time Fionnuala O Connor asked you who you represented – and you sat there like a big, silly billy dummy – all embarrassed and flustered.

    We don’t need your hate and bile here today – we’re looking to move forward with hope. You are yesterday’s man have more in common with the dissidents than you care to admit – for a start, both of you are wedded to hate.

  • go grassy!! go grassy!!

    You are also a disgusting hypocrite given your love for lethal force when used against those your shallow emotional core can only process as enemies.

    yep

  • Grassy Noel,

    Thanks for that profound comment. Just one slight problem – the fragrant Fionnula has never interviewed me. Apart from that, well done.

    As for those who hate, what word would you use to describe the killers of two constables in Lurgan? It is evident that republicans cannot process the fact that they embrace an ideology which murders, maims, tortures and all in the name of mother Ireland. How sad are they?

    Now away back and read some more of that thrilling but non-existent O’Connor interview.

  • Grassy Noel

    She didn’t interview you – rather, you were both in the same studio, and you were doing your thing when she simply turned to you, gave you a quizzical, slightly bemused look, and asked who on earth you represented.

    I think she was just puzzled at your presence is all.

    As for embracing ideologies which murder, maim etc. – you have no difficulty doing that when it suits you.

    I expected a better retort, but there you go…

  • go grassy!! go grassy!!

    I loved that time Fionnuala O Connor asked you who you represented – and you sat there like a big, silly billy dummy – all embarrassed and flustered.

    Grassy = 1

    Vancie = 0

  • Neil

    It is evident that republicans cannot process the fact that they embrace an ideology which murders, maims, tortures and all in the name of mother Ireland. How sad are they?

    Whereas you cannot process the fact that each of your posts is brimming over with hatred, condescension and gross generalisations. For your benefit, the majority of Republicans do not supoprt the CIRA/RIRA, yet it is we who hate, not you who would have 40% of the people in NI tarred with your one broad brush.

    You, my little man, are the sad example here. So terrified of progress, you actually want to be made a victim so you can claim that you were right all along. Hard luck big son, you’re practically a fossil. The rest of us have moved on, and are glad to leave you behind.

  • plainly speaking

    We can actually put a number on what kind of support these murderers have within the republican community …. O’Dowd was articulate enough with Humphrys (once he recovered his poise) to point out that in the 2007 elections, Republican Sinn Féin barely managed 300 or so votes (less than 1%) in Upper Bann. Have we heard anything from RSF? Shouldn’t they come out and tell us what they think, or are they as cowardly as the C/R-IRA gunmen?

  • ??

    Hopefully the 2 people arrested so far will be charged and not released.

    If so then this will be a watershed moment when the republican community worked with the police to bring terrorists to justice.

    Mr Vance is trapped in the past, and i suggest we leave him there.

  • Jimmy

    First off I condemn the terrible events over the past few days’ heartfelt condolences to the families.
    John O’Dowd and the official Sinn fien response are as usual about spin and denial of basic political facts. Northern Ireland and more so Republicanism is in a political vacuum, why? Because Sinn Fein have achieved absolutely and totally nothing for the people that mandate them in every election, When SF signed the Belfast agreement (Which they had little input to) they effectively signed away traditional Republican ideals and all they stood for, The GFA was not a Success for SF that the dissidents want to wreck as some commentators have said but a reaction to the failure of SF to deliver.

    They accepted the victors terms of surrender they gained nothing and still can’t deliver especially on P&J, Political Policing is still in force, and no one has been held account for collusion. All SF are, are glorified civil administrators, in practical political terms they espouse PFI and Water Charges etc from a party that believes in social fairness. What this is is a Political vacuum which was bound to be filled by extremists and an indictment of the failure of SF policy in Government a stalemate situation never works.

    O’Dowd’s comments today asking people with information about the killing in Craigavon was excruciating given the allegations around the Murder of Paul Quinn, It seems if its dissidents its wrong when its their own well its rather different.

  • Grassy Noel,

    I am impressed that your recall is better than mine. Since you must have been in the studio to observe the fragrant Fionnula’s unforgettable put down, I presume you are a BBC employee in which case need I say more? Balanced as ever! I can’t recall asking who Fionnula represents but then again, she is a BBC favourite. Further, I couldn’t care less.

    As for hatred, it’s fascinating to read those who support IRA murder for decades accuse me of being full of hatred and stuck in the past. Presumably you have become so degenerate in the noble cause as to be beyond all logic so there is no point in discussion with you. Those who think justice has a sell-by date are so far gone that it seems only appropriate you are Gerry’s little stooges, brimming on Slugger.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Please do not feed the Vance-troll. He isn’t here to have a debate.

  • Mick Fealty

    He’s as entitled here as anyone else. Noel, behave yourself!

  • The killers of the Constable are most likely to have been trained by the IRA

    What, including the 17 year-old? You’re becoming a parody of yourself.

    I’d hazard a guess that most people with any political interest could come up with a list of prime suspects for the Craigavon murder, and that the police and the IRA could probably come up with very similar lists without any help from one another.

    As for Massarene, it was a bit of a bolt from the blue. I’ve yet to hear any credible theory about who might be responsible (including my own theories), so if you do have any analysis that might be useful to the police in apprehending such callous and dastardly killers, David, I’d suggest you make the PSNI aware of it.

  • On further reflection, David’s application of the “leopards never change their spots” theory to the Shinners is particularly odd given his enthusiastic support for the political descendents of the Irgun. Ho hum, it’s a funny old world sometimes, isn’t it?

  • Mick Fealty

    For what it’s worth, IMHO John O’Dowd has it right. The more powerful end of the Sinn Fein rearguard action is the assertion that it is acting in concert with the public will and the dissidents are not.

    This is crunch time. It would be unwise to ‘future’ too heavily on the inevitability of a negative outcome. Or bank on a wholly positive one. But political leadership is certainly the key.

  • Grassy Noel

    Point of order Mick, I didn’t suggest that we shouldn’t feed the troll.

    Furthermore, the incident I refer to was caught on camera and broadcast on Hearts and Minds.

    If Vance wants to get lay on the punches then he should accept the digs that come his way.

    I’m a bit pissed that you single me out for this type of attention when others – Vance included – can be far more surly than I.

    An apology would be nice…

  • Being referred to as “a troll” by those who lack the guts to put their name to their little posts is quite a compliment, thanks Grassy/Stalin.

    Inspector Morse,

    You don’t get it, do you? I have not said the leopard never changes it spots, I have said the leopard needs to be held responsible for the deaths IT caused. Try and keep up.

  • I have not said the leopard never changes it spots

    You have been saying so for over a decade.

    Are you telling me you’ve changed your point of view on this matter, David? If so, I welcome it.

  • I made the mistake of visiting A Tangled Brain to see what the “right blogosphere” made of the tragedies of the past few days. A fine bunch of people who hang out there, including this prize specimin of loyalist fellow travelling:

    “without the balencing influence of loyalist killers, republicans now see murder as risk free.

    leaving aside for the minute how anyone could support murder of innocents we must remember that the ira admitted that loyalist terror gangs were a primary reason they opted for peace.

    if a young man in a certain part of craigavon saw the very real chance of his friends and family being murdered in revenge for his actions, he may think twice.

    my god what threat is hugh orde telling the country he will police according to the human rights act!!!

    i am not a loyalist or a supporter, in fact i have enjoyed being at the end of a uda pistol so im not trying to promote anything, all im saying is this.

    when monsters come out to attack you may need more monsters to defeat them. sadly it would more than likely be a poor taxi driver who met this fate.”

    And David’s response? Surely this equal opportunity opponent of all terrorism would respond to such a craven piece of fellow-travelling incitement with the force and spleen we have all become accustomed to.

    Not a bit of it!

    “I understand your point but do not agree that “loyalist” terrorists are of any benefit to anyone. We need fewer monsters.”

    The mask slipped for a moment there, David.

  • Jo

    Actually, while he’s entitled to write and speak, as are we all, he isn’t entitled to incite hatred and expressly support violence by people he approves of.

    There is legislation to prevent this and it should be used. The evidence is mounting.