DUP’s Weir guns for President McAleese

“McAleese jaunts cost NI Policing half a million over four years, according to figures obtained by the DUP’s Peter Weir and just issued in a press release.

“Since her election as Irish President, Mary McAleese has had a disconcerting habit of treating Northern Ireland as an extension of her nations territory, and indulged in frequent and regular jaunts north of the border. While this attitude and behaviour has been regarded as inappropriate by many unionists, it is only now that the practical implications of her actions have become apparent. In answer to a question posed by me at the Police Board of the costs to the PSNI of various visits of heads of state to Northern Ireland, it has emerged that the policing cost of visits to Northern Ireland by the Irish President is £542,991 over the last four years, more than all other international Heads of State combined.”
( cont.below fold)

While I am happy to welcome any foreign visitor to Northern Ireland, particularly from the Republic of Ireland, the frequency of visits from the
Irish President is placing a heavy burden on the taxpayer in Northern Ireland, and diverting much needed resources from our policing budgets.
At a time when many Police Stations around Northern Ireland are faced with closure, mainly through budgetary constraints, and the PSNI are
forced to make other cutbacks to make the books balance, it is surely irresponsible for the Irish President to create such a financial burden.
I would call upon her to play her role in ensuring that policing resources are more properly directed towards tackling crime, by limiting the frequency of
her jaunts across the border.”

Her most recent visit to the Shankill seemed finally to set the seal on restored relations after her rare misspeak over comparing Protestant attitudes to Catholics with Nazis to Jews all of four years ago. Weir expresses it in hostile language but he’s right to suggest that Mrs McAleese’s engagements north of the border emphasise common links consistent with the GFA and are quite different from those of a foreign head of state. Her personal ticket is obvious, though she has set a precedent for a southern –born successor. Up to now, apart from a very few glitches like the one noted above, she has been teflon-coated, although vulnerable to unionist sniping.

Will the DUP take up Weir’s cry or leave well alone?

  • blinding

    Thank god it does not cost every exile that much to visit home every now and again!

  • 6cp

    Look on the bright side, it gives police officers something to do.

  • Catholic Observer

    We could also stand to save a few bob on policing marches of the Orange Order and a certain British Army Regiment. I hope Mr Weir’s zealotry for cost-cutting also extends to these groups and that he would consider calling upon them to consider stopping their troublesome marches so that “policing resources are more properly directed towards tackling crime”.

  • Grassy Noel

    Did the section where he spoke about the exhorbitant costs of policing a military parade which other UK cities opposed get detached from the press release? Was the section where he outlined the drain on police resoources of policing range parades, particularly those which traipse through Belfast city centre every other Saturday on the other side?

    Anyway, I didn’t really come in here to post that, I’m here to ask for suggestions. I’m thinking about pitching a Tv idea to the BBC provisonally entitled: ‘The Political Pygmy Show’.

    It’s all aboout poking fun at politicians pocket vast salaries for doing sweet fa and whose only contribution seems to be occasional press releases appealing to the lowest common denominator just to show, like, that they’re doing something.

    any ideas?

  • Ian

    “it has emerged that the policing cost of visits to Northern Ireland by the Irish President is £542,991 over the last four years, more than all other international Heads of State combined.”

    Could that be because most international heads of state have got better things to do than visit a backwards part of the world where the likes of Peter Weir MLA get elected not despite of, but because of such narrow-minded outbursts?

  • Indeed, Ian. In fact, can anyone think of any other Head of State (apart from MMcA and the QE2) who have set foot in NI in the past four years?

  • Driftwood

    How much did the George W Bush charade cost?

  • Grassy Noel

    Spot on, Ian.

  • ZoonPol

    Does Stormont not have to approve any Head of State’s visit and this means consent of both tribal partys so Weir ought to have known this.

  • Barnshee

    “We could also stand to save a few bob on policing marches of the Orange Order and a certain British Army Regiment”

    Agree absolutely –parsde organisers ( and the equivalent protest bodies) should lodge a large security to ensure the behaviour of their (ahem) members. Any breaches and the security would be forfeit. Hit them in their bank balances-no deposit no parade or no protest

  • Catholic Observer

    No ZoonPol. Mary McAleese is an EU citizen and hence is at perfect liberty to travel anywhere she wants in the EU. EU citizens have the right to freedom of movement within the EU27. This is why the DUP would also be totally powerless to stop the Pope from visiting Belfast and why Sinn Fein would be incapable of banning the Queen from visiting Dublin. But because the Queen and the Pope are sovereign monarchs, they are entitled to travel without passports.

  • Up Tyrone!

    “..comparing Protestant attitudes to Catholics with Nazis to Jews all of four years ago.”

    That old crock getting dusted off again. I’m sure Brian that you know she said no such thing so it’s interesting that you repeat the smear. Are you working on the principle that if it’s repeated often enough it will become a fact?

    What the President actually said:

    “The Nazis didn’t invent anti-Semitism,
    they used anti-Semitism, they built on anti-Semitism but they didn’t invent it. It was, for generations, for centuries, an element of the lived lives of many people who, on the surface, lived very good lives, I mean many of them would have regarded themselves, for example, as very good Christians.
    But they gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an
    irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children, an irrational outrageous hatred of
    those who have different colour, and all of those thing, all of those hatreds in the wrong circumstance, on a street in Dublin, they can outcrop as I have seen and heard, of a little child from Somalia being pelted with rotten eggs. They can outcrop in a knife being taken in a fight and someone from Eastern Europe being knifed to death. It’s a toxin you see,
    it’s a poison, and it can be in weak and diluted form, but even in that weak and diluted form, it’s still capable of surviving long enough for a
    Nazi-type era to come along, and to force it into concentrated form, and in concentrated form you get Auschwitz, you get Birkenau, you get Darfur, you get Rwanda. That’s what you get when you don’t stop the toxin.”

  • Sarah

    “In answer to a question posed by me at the Police Board of the costs to the PSNI of various visits of heads of state to Northern Ireland, it has emerged that the policing cost of visits to Northern Ireland by the Irish President is £542,991 over the last four years, more than all other international Heads of State combined.”

    Excuse me, your MLA salary costs up to £52,000 and you spent half the year on your arse arguing over policing and justice and refusing to meet in an Executive meeting. The NI Assembly also gave over 3 million to Ulster Scots funding which any idiot can read if hes drunk enough. What is Mr Weir suggesting? That in recession we need to cut down on taxes AND visits by foreign leaders?

    “Sorry you can’t come here! We’re out of money!”

  • Quagmire

    “a disconcerting habit of treating Northern Ireland as an extension of her nations territory”

    She’s from Belfast you idiot! She’s a nationalist you idiot! Approx half the population of the north are nationalist and see her as their President you idiot! When unionists like Mr Weir speak of the “people of Northern Ireland”, what they really mean to say is the “Unionist people of Northern Ireland”. The problem is of course that not everyone in this place is a Unionist and he certainly doesn’t speak for me when it comes to these matters. Open your petty wee sectarian eyes Peter, “our wee country” is not exclusively Unionist. British as Finchley? Don’t make me laugh… Too late!! And if your reading An Uachtaráin, your more than welcome to visit your fellow countrymen/women here in the northern part of your country. An Phoblacht Abu!!

  • Smug O’ Toole

    It’s a pity when a person from Ulster is told not to go home. Is that the ‘world famous’ Ulster welcome?
    At least one foreign dignitary can be bothered visiting NI. It would seem that these day’s even fellow Britons couldn’t be bothered. Anyone watch that programme on BBC2 oz & james drink to Britain? They travel around all over Britain sampling different beers to try and define modern Britain. They’ve been all over England, Scotland and Wales, but didn’t bother with NI. They came to Dublin and Carlow instead.

  • fair_deal

    Zoonpol

    “Does Stormont not have to approve any Head of State’s visit ”

    If she followed the standard protocols of visits by a head of state then they would no doubt be consulted. However, AFAIK she doesn’t. Most of the visits are nominally ‘private’.

  • dunreavynomore

    Grassy Noel

    I like your idea of the ‘Political Pygmy Show’. The opportunities are boundless. A simple example would be to find which politician has written most letters to the local papers demanding action on the state of a local road and to compare the amount of statements with the amount of letters sent or other contacts made to the relevant authorities for road repairs.

    Another example would be to find which politician uses the words ‘the community is DEVASTED’ most often with thye least rerason.

    Then we could branch out to have a contest between politicians to see which of them has ‘welcomed’ most things which they had done nothing to achieve in the first place.
    Grassy Noel, I think you’re on to a winner, the opportunities are boundless and it’s just a matter of time until some councillor writes to the papers to welcome this GREAT idea and to suggest it should be ran from his/her constituency as it is the best educated,worst educated, best looking, ugliest, sexiest, hilliest, lowest, wettest, driest and above all MOST DEPRIVED are in the whole western world apart from cullybackey and could be doing with the money.

  • dunreavynomore

    Cullybackey,
    i am going to request that a councillor contacts Mary mcaleese to arrange a presidential vist to your fair environs just to prove that i bear no ill will to your rural metropolis; i do this lest some of your politicians declare cullybackey to be ‘devastated’ over my previous post in which i spelt devastated as devasted but i suppose it might be worse to be devasted.
    when i arrange the vist some of your politicians will have the opportunity to ‘welcome’ the vist while others can ‘condemn it’, useful and important work for them all.

  • William

    McAleese [she of the Orange Band marching past her home in Derryvolgie Avenue playing the Queen] gets around the protocol by coming here on private visits. Usually to some group or other that their Foreign Department have chucked money at or to a Nationalist / Republican group who have received a wad of British money to build something or other and then proceed to invite a foreign head of state, who happened to be born and lived here for the greater part of her life, to officially open it.

    It is designed to suggest that she is President of ‘Ireland’, which she isn’t of course. She is President of the Republic of Ireland. It is part of the greening process, that the NIO office and their Foreign Office masters have engaged in during Direct Rule and is now the norm.

    However, the Republicans posting above divert attention from the the point being made by Weir and they should remember that Orange parades and the recent Homecoming Parade would never have needed a heavy Police presence, had the not engaged in using Nazi tactis against them. Many Orange Parades [a good example being Rossnowlagh in Donegal] take place with half a dozen Police officers present, purely to direct traffic.

  • Grassy Noel

    that Orange parades and the recent Homecoming Parade would never have needed a heavy Police presence, had the not engaged in using Nazi tactis against them. Many Orange Parades [a good example being Rossnowlagh in Donegal] take place with half a dozen Police officers present, purely to direct traffic.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Try drinking, drug-taking, fighting, pissing in the street in broad daylight, banners supporting terrorist organisations and all the rest of the cultural expressions at OO parades old bean, and you’ll see why they need a police presence.

    Oh, and all this going past Catholic homes in DIRECT contravention of the wishes of the residents – that’s why the robocops are needed in large numbers.

    I think you are a republican on a wind-up, no-one but no-one could allow themselves to fall into that trap.

  • Catholic Observer

    “your petty wee sectarian eyes Peter, “our wee country” is not exclusively Unionist. British as Finchley?”

    Unionism was never really about being British or indeed being loyal to the Crown. Unionist protests after Stormont I was prorogued proved the former, and their ceaseless commemerations of the Battle of the Boyne and the Civil War prove the latter.

  • Dec

    Try drinking, drug-taking, fighting, pissing in the street in broad daylight, banners supporting terrorist organisations and all the rest of the cultural expressions at OO parades old bean, and you’ll see why they need a police presence.

    I’ve often wondered who pays for the clean up of Shaftesbury Square, Lisburn Road etc after the 12th parades have passed? Probably us ratepayers. Disposing of all that pish, shit, puke and discarded Tennents Super Strength (White Lightning strong cider for the ladies) can’t come cheap.

  • Grassy Noel

    Good point, Dec, but point of order. While moving through the throng on my way to work on a Twelfth morning in central Belfast, I have seen the ladies imbibe their cider from tins with their little finger raised.

    It’s small things like that which show true class.

  • William

    You can be sure if the Republic are pumping money into cross-border routes and to City of Derry airport, it is to suit themselves as much as anyone else. Donegal folk use NI roads to get to Dublin and I’m sure there are many other parts the same…a short cut through the ‘six counties’…and as for the airport, it’s mainly used by Southern folk !!

  • Mack

    William

    If you mean good relations with the Northern Ireland administration, of the type Peter Weir seems determined to destroy with his obnoxious comments – then yes our government clearly want to get something out of it.

    If you think the ROI in our investment in your infrastructure will even come close to covering the cost you are living in a fantasy world. Can you not accept that their was real pain involved in the transfer of the Heathrow slot by Aer Lingus from Shannon to Belfast?

    Is a degree of respect for the office of President of Ireland to much to ask of Northern Unionists? Never mind, that they could perhaps feel some proud in a daughter of Ulster, and product of it’s institutions, who rose to high office.

  • ??

    example, as very good Christians.
    But they gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an
    irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics,

    pity she didnt explain why catholics spent the best part of the last forty years on a anti-prod binge trying to murder as many of them as they could. Maybe thats just what catholics do.

  • Whatever about Peter Weir being obsessed with the costs associated with the visits to her homeland [the part of it which is north of the border] by President Mary McAleese, I wonder does he have any curiosity in the cost of the incursion to Clontibret of his party leader? Or the cost of Ian Paisley’s last official visit to the south, when he was feted at the Battle of the Boyne site, a site which cost millions to develop, or the list goes on.

    Whatever about Peter’s poor mouth, it says a great deal about his poverty of attitude.

    As far as I’m concerned, he’s welcome down south anytime. Just as long as he leaves his personal protection weapon at home…

  • Smug O’ Toole

    pity she didnt explain why catholics spent the best part of the last forty years on a anti-prod binge trying to murder as many of them as they could. Maybe thats just what catholics do.

    http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x71/bobodod/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

    Yes, that’s all Catholics do. What century are you hailing from by the way?

  • ??

    As far as I’m concerned, he’s welcome down south anytime. Just as long as he leaves his personal protection weapon at home…
    Posted by Concubhar O Liatháin on Feb 06, 2009 @ 05:45 PM

    Given that the south is full of gun toting drug dealers, (bit like west belfast),i suggest he take it with him

  • Smug O’ Toole

    Given that the south is full of gun toting drug dealers, (bit like west belfast),i suggest he take it with him

    Sounds like you’re talking from experience. Do much drug running across the border? Sounds like you’re getting high on you’re own supply also.

  • Up Tyrone!

    Isn’t “??” banned? Can’t imagine why.

    It is ironic that a thread on the cost of Mrs McAlees’ security is prefaced with the infamous “SHE CALLED US NAZIS!!!!!” smear. Hardly designed to reduce the cost of future security, but you won’t find Peter Weir complaining about that.

    “..comparing Protestant attitudes to Catholics with Nazis to Jews all of four years ago..” is patently false. Linking to the BBC’s version of the same hysterical nonsense does not make it any less false.

    Any chance of a correction, Brian? Not just because it’s nonsense but because it is dangerous nonsense.

  • Brian Walker

    Up Tyrone, your 2 bites.She said,as you quote:
    ..But they ( Nazis) gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics”.

    Now I’m a fan of Mary, known her slightly for years from her RTE days, accept her goodwill, admire and like her. But in my English, this translates as a comparison. It was a misspeak, a clumsy exaggeration. The cue to take offence was dutifully taken up. She apologised promptly but the offence lingers, inevitably. Dangerous? You’re too timid. If this is your standard for danger, we’ll all have to take refuge in the Carrickfergus salt mines.

  • Andy

    Only a true cynic puts a price on goodwill.

  • jone

    I do like the idea of ‘The Political Pygmy Show’ – the weekly written answers from Stormont provide a rich seam of material for exposing some of our MLAs as brass handled morons.

    Take for example this dunder-headed inquiry from Jim Shannon

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/01/eradicating_the_jim_virus.html

  • Eddie

    I have nothing at all against Mary McAleese. I’m neither a fan or not a fan. Just to paraphrase Dr Johnston (was it?) talking about the Giant’s Causeway, she’s worth seeing, but probably not worth going to see. Same applies to Her Majesty with me.

    However, though Mary’s “from here” – isn’t it still true that the “President of Ireland” can’t leave the Republic (that’s the 26 counties) without permission from the Dublin Government??

    Answer invited

  • “she has been teflon-coated”

    Was her ‘endorsement’ of the Finaghy Crossroads Group done under political direction from the Irish government or was it simply an act of crass stupidity?

  • @C.O’L. – Love Ulster cost the Irish government a pretty penny too.

  • Eddie, I think this is the relevant item from the Constitution:

    Article 12

    9. The President shall not leave the State during his term of office save with the consent of the Government.

  • William

    Nevin…..Has Mary the Makeover been up your neck of the woods yet??….I seem to think she has ancestral roots somewhere in the Glens of Antrim.

    As a former student of the Institute of Professional Legal Studies at Queens when Mary was the chief, I crossed swords with her a few times and have the letters to prove it….I remember her then as the greasy dark hair in a ponytail academic, round rimmed glasses and dowdy dress. I didn’t recognise her on TV, the night Bbbbbertie walked her across the Dail grounds to introduce as the ‘Soldiers of Destiny’ standard-bearer for the Presidency….but she’s done well for herself and doesn’t the hubby get to play golf with the great and the good, like Jackie McDonald, the UDA chief !!

  • 6cp

    Where’s ya respect now for her ladyship, it’s Máire Pádraigín Bean Mhic Ghiolla Íosa, don’t you know?

    She’s bin saying some noyce things bout us prods lately, so lest we can do is be noyce back.

  • Billy

    William

    “the hubby get to play golf with the great and the good, like Jackie McDonald, the UDA chief !!

    Great point – especially from someone who supports a party that steadfastly refuses to deal with terrorist representatives such as the PUP.

    Otherwise, that would make you a hypocrite – eh?

  • “The eldest of nine children, Mary Patricia Leneghan was born in Belfast on June 27, 1951. Her mother was from Maghera and her father a native of Croghan, County Roscommon.”

    Don’t know about any Glens of Antrim connection, William, but I think there’s a place called The Glen near Maghera.

  • Seimi

    She’s a woman.
    She’s a Catholic.
    She’s from Belfast.
    She’s a Belfast Catholic.
    She’s a Catholic woman.
    She’s a woman from Belfast.
    She’s a Cathlic woman from Belfast.
    She’s a Catholic woman from Belfast who is President of Ireland.

    I can’t quite figure out which one of the reasons above annoys 6cp, ??, William etc. most.

    Oh sorry William. I didn’t mean you. Your problem with her is that you didn’t like the way she dressed when she was at Queens. My apologies.

    ‘Given that the south is full of gun toting drug dealers, (bit like west belfast),i suggest he take it with him’

    Very poor comment ?? You sure know how to let yourself down don’t ye?

  • P Bradley

    Now Seimi – easy on William. He and the bould Mary are close. They were both denizens of QUB Law Faculty. She became Queen’s PVC, President of Ireland etc. He became ……….

  • USA

    Lot of hot air from Weir not to mention this thread.
    First thing I thought of when Weir complained about the cost of the McAleese visits was the cost of Orange parades, some 3,000 in all I believe. Why doesn’t he address that issue?
    Secondly, I thought, given the economics of the relationship between the North and South which leads to trade, jobs etc, what type of moron would want to insult their Irish partners.
    Then I thought of the simple common courtesy of being a good neighbor.
    Then, as others have rightly pointed out, I figured she is a northern girl, why not be proud of her achievements, as you espouse Ulster folks achievements here in the US.
    Next I thought that closing one business deal would probably cover the cost of her visits for a year, and help support jobs and Irish livelyhoods throughout the island.
    And finally there is the obvious fact that half the population regard her as the head of their country.
    So they are my top six reasons why I think those opposed to these visits are backward looking bitter morons who are not fit for public service.

  • USA

    Mr.Bradley,
    Give William his dues, he rose to the dizzying depths of becoming a poster on Slugger.

  • USA

    Sorry, I also meant to mention that her remarks about Nazis, Jews, Catholics and Protestants were ill considered. Not sure if she made an apology or not but I would like to believe she tried to make amends.
    But I also suspect for some bitter folks it wasn’t enough.

  • Sarah

    Pity she didnt explain why catholics spent the best part of the last forty years on a anti-prod binge trying to murder as many of them as they could. Maybe thats just what catholics do.

    What planet are you from?

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Many Orange Parades [a good example being Rossnowlagh in Donegal] take place with half a dozen Police officers present, purely to direct traffic.”

    Excellent stuff William! But you could have added “a good example being Rossnowlagh in Donegal IN THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND” and the police officers in question are “GARDAI!”

    Now I know William that you don’t like giving any sort of praise in any way to the “very Oirish, Papist, Fenian part of the island of IRELAND but then again give some credit then where it is due old chap!

  • Tiberius26

    It is designed to suggest that she is President of ‘Ireland’, which she isn’t of course. She is President of the Republic of Ireland. It is part of the greening process, that the NIO office and their Foreign Office masters have engaged in during Direct Rule and is now the norm.

    postedb by william

    i hear a song

    Hillbilly rock Hillbilly roll…. get ur banjo hillbilly

    william

    fight the bitterness, its consuming you man

  • Paddy Matthews

    Brian:

    Up Tyrone, your 2 bites.She said,as you quote:
    ..But they ( Nazis) gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics

    Read the transcript again. The “they” refers to generations of Germans – long before the Nazis came along – who viewed anti-Semitic prejudice as being perfectly compatible with leading what they considered to be good Christian lives. The Nazis were able to make use of that long-nurtured anti-Semitism – not only in Germany but elsewhere in Europe – to murderous effect. It was only [b]after[/b] the Holocaust that the public expression of anti-Semitism became absolutely taboo in Europe.

    The general point that McAleese was making about casual prejudice providing an environment in which evil actions could thrive was, and is, perfectly valid. The pity was that she spoiled it with an unwise and clumsy aside.

    If we’re looking for Nazis in the Northern Ireland situation, the analogy would be with the paramilitaries of all shades who murdered others because of their perceived religion or politics (not sure whether Jackie McDonald – amongst others – would appreciate the comparison, but perhaps it could be a philosophical talking-point on the golf course).

    Incidentally, it’s a great pity that so few of the Unionist politicians who were – no doubt – genuinely outraged by McAleese’s insertion of foot in mouth had expressed the same outrage when Mass-goers at Harryville had been subjected to a concerted, continuous, public campaign of threats and harassment a few years before (James Currie of the UUP being an honourable exception) or when crowds of people had spent day after day barracking schoolchildren in McAleese’s home neighbourhood of Ardoyne a few months before. It might have helped their credibility on the issue.

  • Up Tyrone!

    PM,

    You beat me to it. She was quite clearly talking about the “very good Christians” who pre-dated Nazi Germany.
    The BIG LIE has always been to simply claim “SHE CALLED US NAZIS!!!” whilst censoring her real words, as per the BBC link above. I’m sure Brian didn’t intentionally set out to re-hash an infamous lie with this thread, or to shore up the lie by stupidly slipping a bracketed “Nazi” into a supposed quote. It all looks pretty clumsy though.
    In any case, the lie could not have worked without today’s “very good Christians” who needed it to be true.

    Once again, what the President actually said:

    “The Nazis didn’t invent anti-Semitism,
    they used anti-Semitism, they built on anti-Semitism but they didn’t invent it. It was, for generations, for centuries, an element of the lived lives of many people who, on the surface, lived very good lives, I mean many of them would have regarded themselves, for example, as very good Christians.
    But they gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an
    irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children, an irrational outrageous hatred of
    those who have different colour, and all of those thing, all of those hatreds in the wrong circumstance, on a street in Dublin, they can outcrop as I have seen and heard, of a little child from Somalia being pelted with rotten eggs. They can outcrop in a knife being taken in a fight and someone from Eastern Europe being knifed to death. It’s a toxin you see,
    it’s a poison, and it can be in weak and diluted form, but even in that weak and diluted form, it’s still capable of surviving long enough for a
    Nazi-type era to come along, and to force it into concentrated form, and in concentrated form you get Auschwitz, you get Birkenau, you get Darfur, you get Rwanda. That’s what you get when you don’t stop the toxin.”

    “The Nazis didn’t invent anti-Semitism,
    they used anti-Semitism, they built on anti-Semitism but they didn’t invent it. It was, for generations, for centuries, an element of the lived lives of many people who, on the surface, lived very good lives, I mean many of them would have regarded themselves, for example, as very good Christians.
    But they gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews, in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children, an
    irrational outrageous hatred, for example, of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children, an irrational outrageous hatred of
    those who have different colour, and all of those thing, all of those hatreds in the wrong circumstance, on a street in Dublin, they can outcrop as I have seen and heard, of a little child from Somalia being pelted with rotten eggs. They can outcrop in a knife being taken in a fight and someone from Eastern Europe being knifed to death. It’s a toxin you see,
    it’s a poison, and it can be in weak and diluted form, but even in that weak and diluted form, it’s still capable of surviving long enough for a
    Nazi-type era to come along, and to force it into concentrated form, and in concentrated form you get Auschwitz, you get Birkenau, you get Darfur, you get Rwanda. That’s what you get when you don’t stop the toxin.”

    Now Brian, will you be good enough to correct the opening to this thread?

  • Brian Walker

    Sorry guys this is terrific textual criticism- but what matters is not the full argument but the juxtaposition. Just as Gordon Brown never meant to mean “British jobs for British workers” exclusively and Harold Macmillan’s context wasn’t complacent for “You’ve never had it so good.” This is the real world of public communication and on this one, she got it badly wrong.

  • Up Tyrone!

    No Brian, YOU got it badly wrong. YOU mangled the quote, YOU inserted ‘Nazi’, you continued the lie. YOUR thread has the bald statement “…her rare misspeak over comparing Protestant attitudes to Catholics with Nazis to Jews”.

    That is not an abstract textural criticism. It’s pointing to the gap between a bare faced brazen lie and a fact.

  • Padraig

    Pin money compared to the billions spent on Orange Order, Klu Klux Klan style coat trailing exercises

  • Dewi

    There’s elections coming up I sense. Is the “backs to the wall”, “No surrender” bullshit that emanates from all Unionist politicians at election time effective anymore? If a UUP/DUP politico said “President McAleese is welcome here whenever she wishes to visit” would that lose a shedful of votes?

  • barnshee

    “I think, not to mention the subsidised air route from Derry to Dublin. It’s also time to convert the M1 north of Dundalk to a single lane for private vehicles to choke off the boom in Newry retailing.”

    Who travels LDY DUB=== hardly the ulster prod
    Who benefits from the newry boon — hardly the ulster prod

    Stick them where the sun dont shine

  • fin

    This is not the first time that William has whittered on about him and Mary at Queens, methinks he may have a bit of a crush on her,

  • The Pict

    “Some of you have never had it so good” is the correct quote from Harold MacMillan.

  • Cushy Glenn

    The rare appearance on the public stage of the lesser spotted Weir should be welcomed,proving as it does that an election is in the air

    I do understand that these visits from McAleese are annoying. What other subject of her Majesty comes home to the United KIngdom and gets police protection and civic receptions everywhere he goes? Apart from Eoghan Quigg of course…

    As for the revisionists trying to excuse her odious comments by Jesuitical parsing of the text- lads, get a lfe. WE know what she meant

  • Up Tyrone!

    “WE know what she meant”. No idea who “WE” might be, very good Christians perhaps.
    My point is that Brian Walker knows what she said but has chosen to perpetuaute a lie rather than report the fact.

  • Paddy Matthews

    WE know what she meant

    Indeed. No point in trying to confuse you with the facts.

  • Barnshee. fuck off and die you ignorant prick!!!

  • joeCanuck

    Wonder what the policing bill will be after Gerry Adams is elected President?

  • Dave

    Given that he was laughed out of the Republic during his last election foray, I’d hazard a guess that the odds of that occurring are somewhat akin to Mary Harney winning ‘Rear of the Year 2009.’

  • dewi

    Funny Joe

  • joeCanuck

    Thanks, Dewi. It was meant to be.

  • beta

    The problem with the comparison is that “the troubles” were an incident wherein (some) nationalists were the primary determinant. Whereas in Nazi Germany the Nazis where the determinant and the Jews the object. It may well be true to say that some German Jews had very bad prejudices against Gentiles, in fact to some extent or another it’s bound to be true, but it would be utterly crass to even bring this up in a discussion of the Holocaust, at least not without heavy contextualisation.

    It is the subtext of McAleese’s comments in drawing such a comparison that is irksome. The troubles were caused by a group of people using violent blackmail to establish what they believed was a right of self determination of those on a particular land mass irrespective of local opposition on a part of it. Therefore placing “the troubles” on a Nazi / Jew narrative is a revisionism of what they actually were, irrespective of the highly qualified or otherwise factual correctness of her comments.

    This is the faux pas in my mind, not the element that such comments may be derogatory of a particular set of people. That i personally don’t really care about.

    Whatever “Protestant” children may or may not have been taught, it was what (some) “Catholic” children were taught that actually caused “the troubles”. The irony is that her very comments were a display of that set of folkways which were at the core of that primary determinant of “the troubles”.

  • Up Tyrone!

    “It is the subtext of McAleese’s comments in drawing such a comparison that is irksome. ”

    She compared “very good Christian” anti-semitism with anti-catholicism in the North and racism in the South. She made no comparison with Nazis.
    Read the text again. There is no subtext.

    “It may well be true to say that some German Jews had very bad prejudices against Gentiles…”

    Wow! That’s quite a novel take on the holocaust you’ve got there beta. I wouldn’t normally be distracted from the main point but that kinda took my breath away.

  • Lardie

    “it was what (some) “Catholic” children were taught that actually caused “the troubles”.”
    Is that what led them to revive the UVF?

  • Mack

    Branshee
    “I think, not to mention the subsidised air route from Derry to Dublin. It’s also time to convert the M1 north of Dundalk to a single lane for private vehicles to choke off the boom in Newry retailing.”

    Who travels LDY DUB=== hardly the ulster prod
    Who benefits from the newry boon — hardly the ulster prod

    Stick them where the sun dont shine

    Economic genius at work. Aside from the distasteful, naked sectarianism, and the fact that many Ulster Prods do benefit directly from the largese of the Irish government (and indirectly – do Ulster Prods do business in Dublin? Or Newry, Enniskillen, Belfast, Banbridge, Craigavon or Armagh – all benefitors from the ‘Newry’ boom?).

    Have you ever heard of oppportunity cost? The inverse holds true also, by having someone else pay for a scheme – you don’t have to. So Stormont administration doesn’t have to fork out to placate the Tadghs and the Micks (as an aside, it’s noticable that no-one is ever called Tadgh anymore in the north, becuase of the term taig.) who help to make up the numbers in the executive.

  • sean

    Never mind how much money Big Mary is costing the Northern Ireland Taxpayer , what about the cost she and her wee man cost the Republics Taxpayers. Their is not a week goes by that Big Mary is not jetting of to some far of land on a useless junket. The cost to the taxpayers in the Republic to keep the big woman and wee man globe trotting , must amount to several million annually. I wonder if her recent visit to a well known cosmetic surgery clinic was paid for by the taxpayer.

  • Because she’s worth it

    “I wonder if her recent visit to a well known cosmetic surgery clinic was paid for by the taxpayer.”

    Just ask a taxpayer, if you know one.

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