It’s an ex-stadium-plan for Maze

Some “dishonourable person” has leaked another Northern Ireland Executive document.. This time it’s a paper by Culture Minister, the DUP’s Gregory Campbell, detailing the end of any plans for a multi-sports stadium at the Maze site. From the BBC report

In his paper to executive colleagues, Sports Minister Gregory Campbell said the plan did not enjoy sufficient political consensus, and he said a net loss to the economy of between £156m and £193m did not compensate for the non-monetary benefits which may flow from a shared stadium. Mr Campbell said he now intended to help the three sports to develop solutions to their stadia needs.

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  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas.

  • Quagmire

    Where’s the money coming from for the Windsor upgrade? I hope its not public money, because nationalists (roughly half the population) have no interest whatsoever in the “our wee country” soccer team. He can do a whip around with the unionist bloc at Stormont if he wants to pay for it, but it better not be coming out of my pocket! My money is spent traveling to our nation’s capital in Dublin to watch the Republic. A team that has support from and indeed is representative of every province in Ireland.

  • cynic

    This consensus thing has some benefits. Another white elephant culled and for very sensible reasons. Thank god for that.

  • pacman

    Surely as long as the pot is divided equally between the three sports, then few can complain? I too follow the Republic but have no issue with Windsor Park being upgraded as long as it receives exactly one third funding.

  • Suilven

    quagmire,

    ‘nationalists (roughly half the population) have no interest whatsoever in the “our wee country” soccer team’

    And unionists have no interest whatsoever in GAA stick-fighting and bogball.

    So by your logic, it looks like the 9-county Ulster Branch of the IRFU have won the jackpot.

  • Quagmire

    I dont care what Unionists are interested in. The IFA need the new stadium more than the “GAA stick fighters and bog-ballers”, as you so eloquently described them, do. I have no problem with a new stadium being built, as long as it is in a neutral area where everyone can feel welcome. What I do have a problem with though is that sectarian cesspit on the Lisburn Road getting a face lift at my expense.

  • Cushy Glenn

    “I dont care what Unionists are interested in.”

    Good man yerself. None of that ould parity of esteem crap for you. Tell em straight-“I’m not paying nathin for themmuns”.

    Er.. even Marty McGuinness has the wit to hide it better. Wouldn’t you be better employing your creative talents painting some pillar boxes green?

  • stuart

    Any public money spent on sports stadia here should be matched by the particular sporting body.

    If the IFA need 20 million, they should have to find 10 million themselves.

    At least the IRFU & the GAA fund a lot of their own improvements. The IFA on the other hand, are always around with their begging bowl, looking something for nothing.

    Its incredible that the GAA & Ulster branch of the IRFU are likely to have miiions thrown at them (without even asking), because the poorly supported IFA have to get a new stand for Windsor Park.

    Personally, i would tear the place town and let them find their own funding.If they can’t, tough.

  • Suilven

    Did you even read the post, Quagmire? Read Pete’s lips – no new stadium, most likely upgrades will be agreed to existing stadia. Tough, but you’re unlikely to get a say in whether the IFA chooses Windsor Park, any more than unionists will get a say if the GAA choose to upgrade facilities at Kevin Lynch’s, Dungiven (to mention one real, sectarian cesspit). Get over it.

  • Michael Robinson

    Ulster Rugby is actually decreasing the capacity of Ravenhill to build new corporate facilities – so more money, but less people.

    This is for short term expediency, but Ulster is rapidly being left behind by clubs with larger grounds – Leinster has the 20k RDS with access to Lansdowne Road when it is finished, Munster the 26k Thomond Park, Ospreys are in the 22k Liberty, Cardiff is moving to a 20k+ stadium at the end of the year… not to mention the big English and French teams.

    The IRFU has funded new stadia in Limerick and Dublin but in both sites the development was permitted while I believe there is no way that an expansion at Ravenhill would get past the planners given it is a residential area.

    So from a rugby perspective, the Ulster team does need a larger ground to have a future, the governing body has funded similar developments… but location?

  • Quagmire

    “Good man yerself. None of that ould parity of esteem crap for you.”
    Posted by Cushy Glenn on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:20 PM

    Just fighting fire with fire my friend. The same accusation could be put to Gregory Campbell himself, or any other member of the DUP/UUP for that matter.

  • mnob

    Well the IFA are the only organisation who will host international events in N.I.

    The Ulster rugby team is a club side and the GAA has nobody else to play with.

    (Ducks for cover).

  • Quagmire

    “Its incredible that the GAA & Ulster branch of the IRFU are likely to have millons thrown at them (without even asking), because the poorly supported IFA have to get a new stand for Windsor Park.

    Personally, i would tear the place town and let them find their own funding.If they can’t, tough.”
    Posted by stuart on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:21 PM

    Couldn’t agree more.

  • kensei

    Quagmire

    Hush. Be content that Windsor Park will not get enough money to raise it out of craphole status and that its location in the Village will continue to deter Nationalists from ever setting foot there.

    A great victory for Northern Ireland football fans. How is their campaign to stop Irish citizens from playing for the Republic going?

    Michael

    What is the capacity of Ravenhill currently? Surely, given the experience of football, you are looking at a situation where the teams with the biggest stadiums will power away from the rest?

    That is a crisis if so, no?

  • Quagmire

    “Well the IFA are the only organisation who will host international events in N.I.”
    Posted by mnob on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:51 PM

    “our wee country” is not a nation hence the phrase international cannot be applied.

    “(Ducks for cover).”
    Posted by mnob on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:51 PM

    lol

  • Michael Robinson

    What is the capacity of Ravenhill currently? Surely, given the experience of football, you are looking at a situation where the teams with the biggest stadiums will power away from the rest?

    That is a crisis if so, no?

    “Crisis” may be overstating it a bit… but I would say a matter for serious concern.

    Capacity was approx. 13.5k, this will be temporarily reduced to under 10k while building work is in progress (it started this month) and new capacity will be approx. 11.6k for the start of the 09/10 season in September.

    Rugby isn’t yet at the level of football with the rich clubs dominating and then the rest, but it is heading that way. Crowds mean money which means the best coaches and facilities and the ability to retain local talent and bring in the best imports.

    Ulster has good core support and until a few seasons ago, pulled in bigger crowds than both Munster and Leinster. But with large, modern grounds, Munster and Leinster have grown their support substantially and have overtaken Ulster.

    The die hard supporter may like standing out in the open with a crap view being rained upon, but to grow the support base, you need modern facilities.

  • Glensman

    Stuart seems to be pretty close to the mark, any funding made available by the administration should be matched in some way by those seeking it.

    Casement is in as much need of an upgrade as Windsor is but at least the GAA have committed to sorting out their stadium with or without Stormount support.

  • ulsterfan

    Glensman

    Can not agree .
    Every organisation according to its needs.
    IFA have no money and in order to upgrade Windsor park it requires special help.
    Foot ball supporters are after all tax payers.
    A country of equals.
    Let us examine how much went into he coffers of GAA from British Taxpayers over the past ten years and compare that to the amount paid to soccer.

  • cynic

    Wasn’t it wonderfully fortuitous that a ‘dishonourable person’ slipped this out on the same day as Eames-Bradley.

    I don’t especially like the DUPs but who says that they aren’t running rings around SF? The Stadium issue almost instantly became yesterday’s chip wrapper!

  • Raymond Kennedy’s sash

    Surely funding received should be proportionate to attendances attracted by each sport. If this rule was applied, then GAA and Rugby would rightly receive the lion’s share of funding whilst soccer would get around a score of quid-a fiver more than Elephant Polo but eight quid less than Underwater Hockey.

  • Billy

    Personally, I couldn’t care less about the Maze.

    As long as money is allocated equally, I don’t give a s**t what the IFA do with their share. If they want to “upgrade” a tenth rate s**thole into a ninth rate s**thole, then good luck to them.

    It certainly won’t make any difference to their failed attempts to “tickle the tummies” of Catholics and try to airbrush decades of sickening sectarianisnm at Windsor out of history.

    However, Nationalists at Stormont must be vigilant. If Campbell tries to favour the IFA over the GAA and/or the IRFU, then his proposals must be kicked into touch.

    The days of “croppie lie down” are over. Either the money is allocated equally or, if Campbell tries to sahft the GAA, Nationalists ensure that no money is allocated at all and OWC’s s**thole stadium can continue to disintegrate.

  • Hey! Handbal Ref

    Don’t think the GAGA should get a penny.It seems to me that every game of Irish Thugball and Stickfighting is played(?) under dat Oirish fleg. Can’t them lads down in Dublin not pay for the GAGA to build more provo shrines?

  • Modernist

    Why is it that it is mainly Unionist commentators on this website that resort to pathetic name calling?

  • Quagmire

    Don’t think the GAGA should get a penny.It seems to me that every game of Irish Thugball and Stickfighting is played(?) under dat Oirish fleg.
    Posted by Hey! Handbal Ref on Jan 28, 2009 @ 07:38 PM

    Firstly the GAA don’t need the money, the IFA do. Attendance at All Ireland Final 82,000, attendance at Irish Cup Final Billy, Sammy and a dog. Secondly they play under that flag because it is the national flag of Ireland. Half the population of the north and all of the south see it as there flag. You belong to a minority on this Island. What are you anyway British, Northern Irish, Ulster Scots, Lost Tribe of Israel? Get back to me when you find out who you are.

  • Dec

    I’d be interested to see the reaction of other Irish league clubs if Linfield are going to have tens of millions tossed in their laps (again).

  • Reader

    Sammy: This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas.
    Almost certainly. It was predictable that there would be horsetrading in the executive. Now we are starting to see the shape of the big four issues: Selection in schools, the Maze shrine, devolved policing and justice, and Irish language support.
    If it doesn’t work out at 2+2 from your POV, though, it looks like you would have to blame SF incompetence as much as DUP intransigence

  • Mark

    It will be an absolute disgrace if millions of pounds are spent on Windsor Park.

    How can you justify spending millions on a ground that the IFA struggle to fill at present?

    12,000 people three or four times a year does not justify such a huge cash injection, especially when the beggars at IFA headquarters seem totally inept at funding any improvements themselves.

    Any major funding for Windsor Park should be resisted by all at Stormont as a total waste of taxpayers money.

  • Billyo

    Why is it that it is mainly republican commentators on this website that resort to pathetic name-calling refusing to acknowledge that the “north” is in reality Northern Ireland, its flag is the Union Flag and all its people are British?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Reader,

    “you would have to blame SF incompetence as much as DUP intransigence”

    If intransigence works for the DUP then of course they should use it – every party tries does what is best for itself – hopefully it simply wont work.

    Re. Stadia – when Ulster qualify for HC/SF quarter finals on a regular basis – which hopefully will happen – it would be excellent if some (ideally Northern GAA ground )could host the fixture if Ravenhill is not deemed large enough.

  • GavBelfast

    The real disappointment is that the Maze proposal was ever given serious consideration in the first place.

    It’s been money-down-the-train from the beginning (though a nice-little-earner for consultants of course, as is the new-NI way).

  • austin

    I think Windsor Park should be upgraded to incorporate an athletics track around the pitch. This would allow the IFA President and the Linfield Manager to march around the field wearing their sashes along with their fellow orangemen- Sport for all indeed.

  • He can do a whip around with the unionist bloc at Stormont if he wants to pay for it, but it better not be coming out of my pocket!

    Or you’ll do what exactly?

    I’d be more disturbed, if I were you about the money that’s already been pilfered from your pocket to pay for the White Elephant project.
    The fact that it ever got as far as it did is a disgrace, heads should roll.
    Anyone seen Pootsie today?

  • Ho ho ho

    Sammy sez, “This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas”; Sammy meanz, “when I droned on and on and on that *exactly* this wouldn’t happen, because SF are in the driving seat, I was spouting horsesh*t of a fine and rarified kind”. This was the result every thinking Unionist wanted, and the result 50,000 unionists told Sammy would happy. But on and on and on he droned that, no sir, it wouldn’t. Ho, ho, ho.

  • Quagmire

    “its flag is the Union Flag and all its people are British?”
    Posted by Billyo on Jan 28, 2009 @ 08:24 PM

    “It” doesn’t have an official agreed flag and even if “it” did it won’t inhibit half of “it’s” population pledging alliegance to the flag of the Republic, so keep your head buried in the sand if you must. As for all of its people being British, what a joke. Have a wee read mate
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7484182.stm

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Ho ho ho

    Case of premature evaluation there.

  • Mack

    Congratulations to Gregory Campbell and the DUP for ensuring that the stadium didn’t go ahead at the Maze. The DUP have proved that devolution works for unionism and that if we had direct rule we would have no say in this matter. OH yes this is what the TUV through Jim Alister wants direct rule maze stadium, irish language act, abolish academic selection.

  • kensei

    Reader

    I’m not sure this spells the end for the conflict centre. Wasn’t the idea kicking about that no Maze stadium but the centre would be built? Or did I imagine that?

    There seems to be relative calm over the decision so far anyway.

  • Ho ho ho

    Nah Sammy, it’s a case of stale c*m-hither. Do you want me to dig out all those quotes from you, droning on and on and on, assuring us that precisely what has just happened wouldn’t? Just say the word . . .

    Ho, ho, ho.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Ho ho ho

    “Do you want me to dig out all those quotes from you, droning on and on and on, assuring us that precisely what has just happened wouldn’t? Just say the word ”

    Just the one will be fine thanks.

  • Quagmire

    At the end of the day, although I’m upset somewhat by the decision, all that is being afforded to Windsor is a cosmetic sticking plaster. The IFA, more so than any other stakeholder in the debate, need the money. The GAA certainly don’t and neither does the Ulster branch of the IRFU. The stadium would be utilised more so by soccer than by Gaelic games or Rugby. So in the medium term the IFA are restricted to crowds of 12,000(If their lucky) in that shit hole on the Lisburn Road which will hardly set their financial world alight. My point is that, when they are eventually forced to move to a new stadium, where are they going to build it? With what money? I look forward to the much trumpeted veto that Dodds harks on about, only this time the shoe will be on the other foot.

  • Billy

    Mack

    Devolution works for Nationalists also.

    If Unionists had their way, as in the past, Linfield and the IFA would simply be given a ton of public money to upgrade Windsor Park and, if other sports lost out, tough luck. Remember the ridiculous 100 year deal that the IFA made with Linfield at a time when they operated a blatently sectarian signing policy?

    The difference is that, no matter how much he may want to favour the IFA and “Our Wee Country”, Campbell can’t do so.

    If he wants to give money to Linfield and the IFA, that’s fine – as long as the money is allocated equally and the GAA get at least as much as the IFA.

    However, if he tries to shaft the GAA and/or the IRFU, he’ll be stopped in his tracks.

    As you rightly say, Unionists can prevent a stadium at the Maze being built – personally, I don’t care – it always seemed a daft idea anyway.

    However, Nationalists can prevent Campbell from favouring the IFA over the GAA and/or the IRFU.
    If Campbell and fellow Unionists don’t like it – tough! The days of croppie lie down are over and won’t ever be coming back.

    It’s either a fair share for the GAA or the IFA will get nothing.

    It seems devolution also works for Nationalists.

  • Bruno Spiro

    Good positive politics from the republican posters; “…..can prevent Campbell from favouring the IFA over the GAA” after stating that the GAA don’t need support.

    So no reason then to complain when the unionists kill off any possibility of an Irish Language Act?

    A shared future indeed in the ‘Ireland of Equals’.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Ah perhaps it’s just as well it ain’t gonna go ahead. A ‘national’ stadium for NI is perhaps a ludicrous idea and an awful waste of English tax payers money, at the end of the day. The location too just didn’t suit, as a lot of people have said here on Slugger over the last few years. An oversized stadium of 30,000 capacity that would be only full when hosting a GAA Ulster final, etc… or when the Irish rugby team played is just an enormous waste of public funding.

    Besides, in Dublin, there is always Croke Park and the new Lansdowne Road redevelopment will be finished next year, serving the GAA, IRFU and FAI respectively.
    A lick of paint for Windosr Park , a bit of DIY and sure it will be grand for the IFA for another good few years. An amount of NI folk support this idea too of a compact and intimate little ground for NI. In any way, the money just ain’t in the kitty for stadiums I suppose in these credit crunch times.

    However, it’s probably a missed opportunity really for NI, considering that the Olympics will be held in London 2012.

    BTW, check out how Lansdowne Road in Dublin is coming along here…

    http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/singlecategory.asp?PCID=100

    http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/singlecategory.asp?PCID=34

    A UEFA cup final is on the cards to be held in it soon after it’s finished.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    As Sports Minister, Gregory Campbell should pursue his desire for an NI rugby team too. In anyway, there is an awful lot of Unionist folk in NI who do not support the Irish rugby team.
    That way the awful debacle over flags and anthems will be resolved and the loyal ‘British’ folk of NI can sing and stand for God Save the Queen and their Union flag! I’m sure every Unionist would agree too!

    So go on, get those petitions going!

  • Doctor Who

    I think this decision should open up the possibility of a shared stadium for football and rugby located in the Ormeau Park.

    The general consensus is both these sports need a new modern stadium in order to generate revenue, the Maze proposal offered no such possibility. Bigoted republicans on this thread have accepted that the GAA does not need a new stadium so it can only be bloody minded bigotry to deny those sports that do.

    Oh but the old chestnut of im “a taxpayer”, really. Since when have individulas had the right to deny funding to varying areas of public funding. If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort I will demand a tax rebate on the grounds that I object to my tax being used to fund the war in Iraq.

    I don´t wish to deny GAA fans the right to watch their sports in comfort, so why do some wish to deny me the same right, after all football is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland.

  • iluvni

    Is the GAA going to be so awash with cash in the future when they lose the millions from the Republic of Ireland football and rugby teams patronage?
    There certainly is an overwhelming smugness about the claims of GAA fans on this site….not dissimilar it must be said to the smugness that surrounded the super soaraway Celtic Tiger of the Republic not so long ago.

    ANyway, excellent decision, if confirmed, today. The Maze was a disgraceful concept from the start. It certainly never suited the requirements of football and rugby…and well, was the GAA ever interested either, or were they ‘advised’ of the position they were to take?

  • David

    ‘If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort’

    It’s hardly republicans to blame for the dump that is Windsor Park and it’s hardly republicans fault that football is so poorly supported in the North.

    I think you would be better addressing your concerns about health and safety to the IFA.

    Perhaps the Football authorities would do well to study how the bigger supported sports of Gaelic and Rugby manage and attract ever growing numbers of fans and ask yourself why some Irish league clubs can hardly manage to get a hundred fans through the turnstiles on a saturday.

    The rugby crowd in Ulster have done wonderful work in making the sport more popular, welcoming and attractive to the average sports fan over the last number of years.

  • Billy

    Dr Who

    ‘If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort’

    The financial plight of the IFA is nothing to do with Republicans. Decisions like the 100 year deal with Linfield (and the legal costs if the IFA try to get out of it) and massive payouts to Bowen etc are purely down to the ineptitude of the IFA ‘management’.

    I don’t remember too many OWC fans complaining when the IFA made the ludicrous deal with Linfield at a time when they operated a blatently sectarian signing policy.

    If the GAA and the IRFU have made better use of their resources than the IFA – that’s tough on the IFA.

    Personally, I’m not bothered about the Maze being ditched.

    However, the days of the IFA + Linfield being given massive amounts of taxpayers dosh (and who cares how the Catholics feel eh?) are gone for good.

    The IFA are entitled to an equal share of taxpayers money and no more. In fact, that’s a good deal for them as the GAA draw a lot bigger crowds.

    However, the GAA + IRFU are also entitled to their equal share and, if it’s not forthcoming, Campbell has no chance of getting one penny of public money for Windsor Park.

    It’s typical of you to blame “Republicans” for the fact that Windsor Park is a shithole.

    You’d be better off looking at the so-called IFA “management”.

    The vast majority of Nationalists\Catholics support the RoI and want nothing to do with OWC (I wonder why that could be?).

    If you think that Campbell or any other Unionist has any chance of short changing the GAA to benefit OWC + Windsor Park, you’re living well in the past.

    The bottom line is clear – either the GAA get their fair allocation of funds or no-one gets anything. It’s as simple as that.

  • Doctor Who

    David

    “The rugby crowd in Ulster have done wonderful work in making the sport more popular, welcoming and attractive to the average sports fan over the last number of years. ”

    So you would have no objections to Ulster Rugby obtaining a much neede new stadium, one im sure they would be more than happy to share with football.

    You rightly point out what the Ulster branch of the IRFU have acheived, but yet you don´t recognise that no other organisation has worked harder to promote a positive image in their sport than the IFA.

  • Doctor Who

    Billy,

    I would hazard a guess that probably half the players registered with the IFA are Catholics, what do you think the percentage of registered Protestant players with the GAA.

    So please don´t play the sectarian card “Billy Liar”. The GAA should obtain public money, despite many of their grounds being shrines to republican murderers, they have always accepted the “British” taxpayers money despite their distain of all things British.

    The fact is that Rugby and Football need a new stadium, GAA does not, you even recognise this yourself. It is your personal bigotry that wishes to prevent this and for that you should seek help in exorcising your own narrow-minded little demons, and of course to cure your pathological fib talking.

  • Seimi

    ‘Bigoted republicans on this thread have accepted that the GAA does not need a new stadium so it can only be bloody minded bigotry to deny those sports that do.’

    Bloody minded bigotry…a touch too much cider tonight Doctor…?

    ‘If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort I will demand a tax rebate on the grounds that I object to my tax being used to fund the war in Iraq.’

    First of all – what nation exactly are you talking about?

    Secondly – that is an excellent idea re the tax rebate! I think anyone who didn’t agree with the war in Iraq should demand a tax rebate! And a second rebate for Afghanistan!

    ‘I don´t wish to deny GAA fans the right to watch their sports in comfort, so why do some wish to deny me the same right, after all football is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland.’

    I’m sure the many thousands of GAA supporters in the six counties are grateful you wouldn’t deny them their right to watch a match. But who are the ‘some’ you speak of who deny you the same right? Show me where on this thread anyone denied you that right. I’ll go stick the kettle on….

    ‘The Maze was a disgraceful concept from the start.’ – iluvni

    I’m genuinely curious. Why was it disgraceful?

    As to your ‘Is the GAA going to be so awash with cash in the future when they lose the millions from the Republic of Ireland football and rugby teams patronage?’,IF there is public money being allocated to the major sports in the six counties, and if there actually IS any sort of parity of esteem, and IF the Assembly mean what they say about everybody being equal etc etc etc, then surely you can see why the GAA would expect to be treated as fairly as Rugby and football. Don’t you? I mean, if the GAA and the IRFU suddenly decided that Windsor Park was the ideal venue for all their northern matches, would you object because they were ‘foreign’ sports, or would you see this as a shrewd investment? You wouldn’t complain, would you? And you would laugh at anyone who would dare suggest that this in some way weakened the IFA’s position re the allocation of funding for a new, improved stadium? Wouldn’t you? Take your time…

  • Billy

    Dr Who

    What a pathetic response even by your low standards! Childish name calling doesn’t mask the fact that you can’t answer the underlying questions.

    Why should the GAA (or IRFU) lose out financially because they used their resources wisely while the IFA wasted theirs on ridiculous deals with Linfield and massive payouts to former employees?

    I think you’ll find that the IFA have had a lot more public money that either the GAA or IRFU over the last 20 years.

    If the IFA don’t have the financial resources to deal with the shithole that is Windsor Park, that’s tough.

    The vast majority of Catholics/Nationalists don’t support the North and wouldn’t go to Windsor Park – the crowds are hardly breathtaking are they?

    However, I have no problem with the IFA getting a fair share of taxpayers money – but no more!

    I have never attended GAA matches myself. However, as by far the largest sporting organisation in Ireland, they are fully entitled to their fair share of public money.

    Frankly, I couldn’t care less about the IFA and Windsor. They screwed up and now, as usual, they want the public money to bail them out.

    Campbell may have succeeded in ditching the Maze -but he won’t succeed in shafting the GAA or Nationalists in general.

    Any public expenditure to the IFA, GAA or IRFU will have to get approval. If Campbell tries to short chnage the GAA at the expense of OWC, he won’t get approval – it’s that simple.

    If you don’t like it – tough. You can whinge and name call all you want – there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it.

  • Doctor Who

    Slimey

    “Bloody minded bigotry…a touch too much cider tonight Doctor…?”

    No pal, it´s the early afternoon here in Melbourne, a bit too early even for me and too darn hot, but perhaps you are way past your cot time, which may explain the bullshit.

    “First of all – what nation exactly are you talking about?”

    Despite what you may think in footballing terms Northern Ireland is a nation, now that is irrefutable, whatever your politics. Now if you cannot even accept a simple fact like that, we are not really going to have a debate.

    “Secondly – that is an excellent idea re the tax rebate! I think anyone who didn’t agree with the war in Iraq should demand a tax rebate! And a second rebate for Afghanistan!”

    Absolutely, but as you agree with me that this is not the way the tax system works, you don´t really have a point there dude.

    “I’m sure the many thousands of GAA supporters in the six counties are grateful you wouldn’t deny them their right to watch a match. But who are the ‘some’ you speak of who deny you the same right? Show me where on this thread anyone denied you that right. I’ll go stick the kettle on…. ”

    Oh really, ok I agree Windsor Park is a shithole as is Ravenhill, both these codes need new grounds, there is little scope at both grounds for improving. Now go back and read the posts on the thread and you will find that there is a consensus among republicans that the GAA don´t need a new stadium but football does. The republican opinion being they can´t have it unless GAA receive the same amount of dosh, irrespective of needs. Of course such a stadium at Ormeau Park should not be denied to GAA should they wish to use it.

    Now if you do support a stadium for football, where do you suggest.

    BTW you shouldn´t be boiling the kettle unsupervised.

  • Seimi

    ‘Slimey’
    Starting off your argument with a childish name calling gag really doesn’t bode well for the coming debate. However, I’ll tighten my girdle (for fear of breaking ribs through laughing) and delve deeper…

    “Bloody minded bigotry…a touch too much cider tonight Doctor…?”

    ‘No pal, it´s the early afternoon here in Melbourne, a bit too early even for me and too darn hot, but perhaps you are way past your cot time, which may explain the bullshit.’

    ‘Bloody minded bigotry’ were your words Doctor, not mine. Would you care to explain them? This, I believe, was a debate about sports stadiums (or stadia, if you prefer – am I going too fast for you?), yet you brought ‘bloody minded bigotry’ into the affray. Again – why?

    ‘Despite what you may think in footballing terms Northern Ireland is a nation, now that is irrefutable, whatever your politics. Now if you cannot even accept a simple fact like that, we are not really going to have a debate.’

    Regardless of what I think, the fact that you started your reposte with a childish joke, leads me to believe that you are incapable of, or at least, severely restricted in, the complexities of debate. However, for the sake of friendliness, I will concede that Northern Ireland is a national team. Okay, that seems to be your main argument(!) dealt with, so what’s next…

    “Secondly – that is an excellent idea re the tax rebate! I think anyone who didn’t agree with the war in Iraq should demand a tax rebate! And a second rebate for Afghanistan!”

    ‘Absolutely, but as you agree with me that this is not the way the tax system works, you don´t really have a point there dude.’

    Yeah…ye see, that was what we call a joke. Maybe you didn’t get it….maybe it’s the cider…or maybe it’s the sun! Yeah! Use that excuse!

    ‘Show me where on this thread anyone denied you that right. I’ll go stick the kettle on…. “

    I’m still waiting….the ‘answer’ you gave wasn’t an answer to the question I asked. You’re really not very good at this, are you? Maybe it’s the sun….

    As to your question re a stadium for football. I take it you mean a stadium for the IFA. If the IFA really REALLY want to be serious about their anti-sectarianism initiatives, then they need to move out of Windsor. In fact they need to move out of Belfast. Somewhere like Enniskillen, or Armagh. I don’t know, just not Belfast.

    As a final note – at no point in my posts was I personally insulting to you, and I find it childish, immature and offensive to be referred to as you have done. I would appreciate an apology. Thank you.

  • Doctor Who

    Billy Liar

    “Why should the GAA (or IRFU) lose out financially because they used their resources wisely while the IFA wasted theirs on ridiculous deals with Linfield and massive payouts to former employees?”

    Oh dear, now really I mean the writing isn´t even joined up. I repeat the GAA in Northern Ireland should receive public funding, let them apply for schemes if they wish.

    Now as we are all agreed they don´t need a new stadium, why would they apply for that. It is quite clear that Ulster Rugby must move from Ravenhill for it to compete with the rest of European Rugby, contrary to your ill informed opinion, Ulster Rugby is moving backwards. (read the posts by Rugby fan Michael Robinson earlier in the thread).

    Now take the IFA out of the equation, would you deny Ulster Rugby a new stadium.

    The IFA are mis-managed (but improving), they have little resources, but in order to move forward they need a new stadium just like Rugby, the logical conclusion would be for these two codes to work together. You could compare the mismanaged and underfunded Welsh FA prior to the construction of the Millenium Stadium, to the current IFA set up. Now the govt. gave the blessing to that tremendous stadium and the crowds at WFA international matches improved from 15,000 to 80,000. Now I´m not saying that would happen to Northern Ireland attendances, however the need to move is there in order to be given any chance of going forward.

    Presumably you are a taxpayer to the British exchequer and also objected to the Welsh getting a new stadium.

    Now say for example that 100 million became available and 80% of that was made avilable to the two codes to develop a new stadium in Ormeau Park. What possible objections could you have? Considering that you admit that you are not involved in any of these sports, and are only motivted by a hatred of all things NI and a love for all things Nationalist. Although you don´t realise it, Nationalists will benefit from a new football stadium as it is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland.

  • Seimi

    ‘Although you don´t realise it, Nationalists will benefit from a new football stadium as it is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland.’

    Actually Doctor, I would argue that Golf, Bowls, Ice Hockey, Swimming, Track, Gymnastics, any of the martial arts, boxing, to name but a few, are all more cross community (in as much as they’re not associated with, or not reliant on, the support of one community) than the three you mentioned…but I could be wrong….you are after all a Timelord…

  • Doctor Who

    Seimi, if you want to dish out insults I think you should learn how to take them as well. Why is it you joke but hey themmuns insult.

    “I will concede that Northern Ireland is a national team. Okay, that seems to be your main argument(!) dealt with, so what’s nextfew…”

    Very kind of you there fella, considering the IFA is one of the oldest associations in world football.

    “the ‘answer’ you gave wasn’t an answer to the question I asked. You’re really not very good at this, are you? Maybe it’s the sun…. ”

    Oh christ do i really have to go and copy and paste the comments from this thread, it would be easier if you could just read them. See Billy Liar´s posts or a host of others.

    “As to your question re a stadium for football. I take it you mean a stadium for the IFA. If the IFA really REALLY want to be serious about their anti-sectarianism initiatives, then they need to move out of Windsor. In fact they need to move out of Belfast. Somewhere like Enniskillen, or Armagh. I don’t know, just not Belfast”

    Holy fuck what was that you where saying about too much cider.

  • Doctor Who

    Seimi

    “Actually Doctor, I would argue that Golf, Bowls, Ice Hockey, Swimming, Track, Gymnastics, any of the martial arts, boxing, to name but a few, are all more cross community (in as much as they’re not associated with, or not reliant on, the support of one community) than the three you mentioned…but I could be wrong….you are after all a Timelord… ”

    You are quire right even if you are being pedantic. I should point out that the IFA have throughout their associated regional associations something like 60,000 registered players, not to mention all the schools and youth clubs which are also also affiliated to the IFA, making it the largest cross community sports body in Northern Ireland.

    Also in your little list you left out cycling, not the GAA code of course.

  • Seimi

    I don’t think a single part of that comment made sense….

    Where did I ‘dish out insults?’ Show me.

    ‘“I will concede that Northern Ireland is a national team. Okay, that seems to be your main argument(!) dealt with, so what’s nextfew…”

    Very kind of you there fella, considering the IFA is one of the oldest associations in world football.’ – And? What is your actual point here?

    ‘“the ‘answer’ you gave wasn’t an answer to the question I asked. You’re really not very good at this, are you? Maybe it’s the sun…. “

    Oh christ do i really have to go and copy and paste the comments from this thread, it would be easier if you could just read them. See Billy Liar´s posts or a host of others.’

    I asked for your answer, not the opinions of others. Do you actually have an opinion? You should check out the concept of Free Will…

    So where would you suggest for a ‘national’ stadium for football in the six counties? Please don’t go for the ‘easy’ answer – Windsor…

  • Seimi

    ‘You are quire right even if you are being pedantic.’ – not pedantic; realistic.

    ‘I should point out that the IFA have throughout their associated regional associations something like 60,000 registered players, not to mention all the schools and youth clubs which are also also affiliated to the IFA, making it the largest cross community sports body in Northern Ireland.’

    How does this sentence mean that the IFA is cross community? Please show me, because I don’t understand your logic.

    ‘Also in your little list you left out cycling, not the GAA code of course.’

    What do you mean by this? Again, please explain, because, quite frankly Doctor, for a Timelord, your argumentative powers are pathetic.

    I’m going to bed now. I would like (but don’t expect to recieve) an apology for your insults tonight, and (please god!) a rational argument!

    The word – leave – how apt!

  • USA

    Why should these sporting bodies get any tax payers money? They are for profit companies are they not? Here in the US each sporting franchise lives or dies on its own.
    Recently a new football stadium was built in the US city in which I live, every dollar came from the private sector.
    Not everyone likes sports, are the taxpayers going to give money to people who like bird watching or people who like playing chess?
    Why do these sporting bodies think they are entitled to public funds? If they cannot agree on free land and a free stadium then I say give the money to the health care system or the education system.
    And if a sporting body can’t run their business model successfully then let them sink, or change their model. This should not be the taxpayers responsibility.
    The political party that adopts this “lassaiz faire” and financially prudent approach will have my respect.

  • Dead President

    USA

    “Not everyone likes sports, are the taxpayers going to give money to people who like bird watching or people who like playing chess”

    No objections though when it goes on killing Iraqi children.

  • Doctor Who

    Seimi

    “So where would you suggest for a ‘national’ stadium for football in the six counties? Please don’t go for the ‘easy’ answer – Windsor…”

    I think I mentioned about three times that the most logical location for a Football/Rugby stadium was Ormeau Park.

    Incidentally USA, the USA has in the last 25 years hosted the Olympic games twice, what was the cost to the US taxpayer do you think.

  • Billy

    Dr Who

    Money doesn’t have to be spent on a new stadium – the GAA have stadiums e.g. Casement Park that need quite a lot done.

    The fact that the IFA have a shithole for a stadium is, in fact, not the fault of Republicans but of the pathetic mismanagement of the IFA which for decades tolerated the sectarian abuse of Catholic NI players by their own fans.

    There is plenty of evidence to suuport this – just ask Anton Rogan, Martin O’Neill or Neil Lennon. Of course, according to you, none of that ever happened so I wonder which one of us is a “liar”.

    Don’t ever lecture me about how the Nationalist community feels about OWC – I was born and raised in that community so I don’t need any advice from you.

    The overwhelming majority of Nationalists\Catholics don’t support the North and won’t go to Windsor or anywhere else to watch them.

    There is far more support in the Catholic community for the GAA than for OWC.

    As much as it pains you, the days of croppie lie down are gone for good.

    In the current administration, Campbell can NOT allocate funds without cross-community approval.

    If he attempts to rob the GAA to pay the IFA, he clearly will NOT get that support from either Sinn Fein or the SDLP.

    So, he either allocates the GAA the fair share of TAXPAYERS money to which they are fully entitled or no-one gets anything.

    If there is no new stadium at the Maze, fair enough – there won’t be any new stadium anywhere.
    The IFA are the biggest losers there since Windor is a 10th rate shithole.

    If they are lucky, they can upgrade it to a 9th rate shithole and the few thousand “cross-community” fans can watch OWC there.

    Let’s face facts, the chances of the IFA raising any finance on their own is zero.

    For all your abuse, you are simply trying to ignore the facts.

    While Unionists can (and have) prevent a new stadium being built at the Maze – Nationalists can and will prevent a new stadium being built anywhere else.

    They will also ensure that the GAA (and hopefully the IRFU) are given their FAIR and equal share of any public finance.

    For all your pathetic name calling and childish abuse – the truth is clear. There will be NO new stadium for OWC and, while supporters of the Maze will be disappointed, the biggest losers will be the IFA and fans of the North.

  • ray of sunshine

    ‘you don´t recognise that no other organisation has worked harder to promote a positive image in their sport than the IFA.’-Dr Who

    Yeah, it’s that positive that the most senior person in that organistion spends his summers running around the North in his Orange Sash-lead from the front, eh?

  • fin

    I could be wrong, but isn’t both Rugby and the GAA organised at provence level and therefore larger than NI, don’t all of the 9 counties of Ulster have an equal claim to these sports, if so why not a shared stadium for both in Monaghan town?

  • stuart

    ..Although you don´t realise it, Nationalists will benefit from a new football stadium as it is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland…

    We does the IFA insist on playing god save the queen at home games. Why does it fly the old unionist Stormont banner,Why does its supporters insist on shouting loyalist chants during games. How is singing the dambusters, rule britannia, the sash etc… Cross community.

    I wasn’t aware that GSTQ, sash, unionist flags & loyalist chants were now classed as acceptable in a cross community/shared future sense!

    Or perhaps IFA president Mr Kennedy consulted his orange order buddies to get their definition of a cross community atmosphere.

  • Ho ho ho

    Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Jan 28, 2009 @ 10:59 PM: “Just the one [quote from me on the Maze] will be fine thanks”.

    Oh we can do better than that. But before we do, let’s just put it them all in glorious, spacer context. For of course the thing that you have bored Slugger rigid with is contained within this quote (and a billion others droning on likewise): “SF will be administering law and order before the year is through or good bye funny government“. [Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Jun 01, 2008 @ 08:44 PM]. And very much as part of *that*, now fully self-evident horsesh*t, you’ve asserted the following:

    Robbo is trying desperately to magic up the ‘confidence’ of the Unionist people for the transfer of Police and Justice to avoid Dublin interfernece and also trying to avoid giving the green light to the the Bobby Sands and the Hunger Strikers stadium without having Non Iron games played in Scotland“. [Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Jul 05, 2008 @ 11:43 PM]. But he wasn’t trying, ‘desperately’ or otherwise. Only SF, and their drones here on Slugger, were actually dim enough to kid themselves with that little fantasy. What the Punt was ‘trying’ to do, and what he has done magnificently well, was to nix the Bobbybowl: no shrine for youse, but plentiful wonga handed over from public funds to the IFA. From the DUP’s point of view: result; from SF’s point of view, whoops, screwed up, again.

    Robbo will jump. The DUP are in the bag. We had even more bluster and jibber jabber before the DUP signed the STA. The more Robbo blusters … the more likely it looks.

    By then the Bobby Bowl will have been decided and there will be a fudge on Education and the ILA will be put on the long finger. [Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Aug 29, 2008 @ 04:39 PM]”. And yeah, it’s been decided, but of course, in exactly the opposite way you claimed it would be.

    “It is difficult for Unionists to accept the (eventual) British government view that the IRA were not criminals but politically inspired insurgents deserving of government and the Hunger strike/strikers is a key battleground for Unionists in their battle of denial. When the boby bowl saga (Long Kesh) starts up again we can expect more of the same“. [Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Dec 30, 2008 @ 06:16 PM]. Well you can expect what you want. What Unionist after Unionist expected, and told you, was that the Bobbybowl would be knocked on the head. But you knew better. Oh, wait.

    “”[T]he outcome of these negotiations and the ability of Stormo to settle issues like Police, Education and the Bobby Bowl(Maze) will inform us as to what, if any, reform is needed. These funny feckers would make better use of their time analysing political systems that have had sufficient time to settle in before playing politcal agony aunts”. [Posted by It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it on Sep 09, 2008 @ 11:35 AM]. For the benefit of readers already bored into a coma by Sammy’s blether, what he means by ‘reform’ is, ‘if I’m not getting my way, the rules need to be changed’. Except, sadly, if Sammy, or for that matter, Sinn Fein, aren’t getting their way, well, no one actually cares. Certainly the Punt is pretty happy with the way ‘the rules have conclusively let him ‘settle’ the Bobbybowl, shrine n’all.

    Thus, and conclusively, when you used to comfort yourself that Adams had his “foot on Unionists’ windpipes”, because he could stop their [sic] beloved Bobbybowl, you, and he, were *entirely* wrong, yet again.

    But the question here is not, why did Sammy walk into the Punt’s trap (that Unionists wanted a Bobbybowl!) quite so easily. Sammy, love him or pity him, is simply one of SF’s rather more, uh, vocal dupes round here. What’s positively intriguing is why Adams marched, seemingly quite so willingly, into this painfully transparent brer-patch? You know, I almost begin to have my doubts about that fellow’s Republican credentials . . .

    Ho, ho, ho.

  • Reader

    kensei: Wasn’t the idea kicking about that no Maze stadium but the centre would be built? Or did I imagine that?
    I think the centre might well be built. But, without the stadium and the ancillary developments, the centre will (still) be in the backside of nowhere. And a hell of a lot cheaper than a stadium. What can you build for 12,000 per head these days?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Ho, Ho, Ho

    I dont want to be too dimsmissive after all your hard work – and to be fair there may have been a hint of overstatement – but your various celerbarotory ejaculations above are a little pre-mature.

    On the Bobby Bowl – Gregory has decided to deprive the (mainly) unionist people of a proper stadium for lady ball/soccer ball/football and is still left with a Bobby shrine in its place? Funny old game.

    The DUP will implement ( as they know Marty will pull the plug if they dont ) Police and Justice and rule themselves (and SF out) – that looks pretty reasonable to me.

    There is no agreemnet on Education and Irish Language.

    Jeez – great DUP victories? – More like the DUP turning the ball into their own net.

    p.s. It would be great to see the IRFU/Ulster Rugby/GAA build a stadium for themselves at Long Kesh if Irish FA dont want to get involved. Munster and Leinster oculd plays games there as well whicgh would be great to see.

  • Driftwood

    Billy
    The TAXPAYERS money you refer to comes from the British mainland. Not too many TAXPAYERS in West Belfast.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “p.s. It would be great to see the IRFU/Ulster Rugby/GAA build a stadium for themselves at Long Kesh if Irish FA dont want to get involved. Munster and Leinster oculd plays games there as well whicgh would be great to see.”

    This could possibly happen to a degree, as the IRFU and the GAA enjoy a superb relationship at the moment, as they both rake in the millions and millions of revenue from the use of the 82,300 Croke Park stadium.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “On the Bobby Bowl – Gregory has decided to deprive the (mainly) unionist people of a proper stadium for lady ball/soccer ball/football and is still left with a Bobby shrine in its place? Funny old game.”

    Seems that Grego has cut off his nose to spite his face here….kinda odd that Unionists are happy with the outcome too.

    To think that NI is minus a proper and reasonable stadium and the Olympics are being held in London, the UK, in only 3 years time. What could have been a great financial benefit to NI, as well as a great contibution to NI sports, the sports fans and athletes themselves has now been hit on the head!

    But Grego’s pride has been unhurt and I suppose that matters most of all.

  • Quagmire

    Not too many TAXPAYERS in West Belfast.
    Posted by Driftwood on Jan 29, 2009 @ 01:43 PM

    I agree. Too many spongers on the Shankill Road. What was it Harold Wilson said again?

  • Democratic

    You should take it up with the duely elected representative for that end of the town Quagmire -Grizzly Adams – his methods of “dealing” with the Shankill residents of his constituency in the past have been novel to say the least – i’m sure if pressed he could arrange to have a “fuse” lit under anyone not pulling their weight so to speak……

  • neil

    Given the current financial crisis I would be more than happy to see all three sports be sent on their way with nothing. If you need cash raise it yourself.

    The TAXPAYERS money you refer to comes from the British mainland. Not too many TAXPAYERS in West Belfast.

    100% of people in West Belfast are taxpayers you tosser, income tax makes up 29% of tax income in the UK. The remaining 71% obviously comes from goods and services. If you feel like educating yourself a little, dragging your pathetic mindset kicking and screaming into the 21st century, (not the Unionist way I know), here are the facts and figures regarding benefits claimants in West Belfast. Pretty much the same as in the rest of Belfast, not even the highest in Belfast, with the North of the city leading the way, though I’m sure you’ll not allow facts to stand in the way of your talking shite.

    http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/stateofthecity/docs/developmentbriefarchive/developmentbrief12.pdf

    Interesting how the taxpayers in GB should be expected to pay for the twelfth of July, the bonfires and security operations. Do you agree with that? Or is it only a problem when them stinkin fenians get some of the money?

  • kensei

    Doctor

    Now say for example that 100 million became available and 80% of that was made avilable to the two codes to develop a new stadium in Ormeau Park. What possible objections could you have?

    I don’t see why the GAA should be relegated to 20% of the money when it has fairly pressing needs of its own and AFAIK, has vastly larger gates than Football and rugby combined. 60%, maybe. I’m not entirely sure why money should be siphoned away from other sports either: I do jujitsu and a nice new headquarters and facilities would be nice. Doubt it would cost a million.

    But – newsflash! – 100 million isn’t coming from anywhere, particularly in the current climate. Windsor will get an upgrade that keeps it just about capable of hosting internationals, GAA and rugby will get similar sort of funds, no one will really get what they want and we’ll stumble on.

  • cynic

    Ok …forget for a moment all the politics, catcalling and nonsense on this. Focus on the real issues.

    Who in their right minds wants to build the ‘National Stadium’ 15 miles outside the biggest (and only) real connurbation we have and in an area with poor rail and bus links, no pubs, clubs, shops, restaurants or infrastructure of any kind? There’s not even a hotel within 15 miles of it!

    Doh? Who would ever go there? It was always a total, utter nonsense. Commercial madness thought up by civil servants and politicians desperate for something use the prison site and demonstrate progress. Bread and circuses politics. A white elephant tethered in the middle of nowhere and whom nobody wanted.

    Now its dead, thank God.

  • Driftwood

    neil
    calm down dear

    The mainland taxpayer grants us the biggest DLA rip off in the UK.

    Kensei- If they can find £300 million to give to the families of murdering scumbags, they must have some dough stashed away.

  • Glencoppagagh

    “A white elephant tethered in the middle of nowhere”
    I’m with you there cynic but there is still a need. It would have been an environmental disaster as well.
    However, there is a case for a stadium in Belfast even if the GAA don’t participate. They add very little to the broader economic case because their fixtures would only attract day trippers whereas football and probably to a lesser extent rugby would attract overnight visitors who would spend far more.
    If the GAA hadn’t ignored their northern zealots and opened up Croke Park they would have earned the undying hatered of Dublin’s hoteliers and publicans and possibly put sponsorship in jeopardy.
    Any new stadium should also be capable of hosting athletics (Commonwealth Games in Belfast?) and non-sporting events like concerts. There is no reason why a stadium should be seen as a gift to the sports using it. They can all take a stake in it and share in any profits.
    And before anybody says “what profit”, if it cannot generate an operating profit it should not be built at all.

  • Kensei

    Drift

    Don’t bank on that £300 million either.

    Glen

    Day trippers spend money too. And there are likely many more day trips to from the GAA of more people than the comparatively small away gates at NI matches.

  • stuart

    ‘However, there is a case for a stadium in Belfast even if the GAA don’t participate. They add very little to the broader economic case because their fixtures would only attract day trippers whereas football and probably to a lesser extent rugby would attract overnight visitors who would spend far more.’

    So take the North’s last five home games – the travelling support of Hungary,San Marino, Georgia, Bulgaria and Czech’s combined would hardly have filled a B&B;on the Lisburn Road.

    Football brings little economic benefit to Belfast. Apart from overtime for the PSNI when feuding paramilitaries decide to have a scrap at Windsor.

  • Driftwood

    Kensei
    Im hoping that £300m is put to better use. Can’t see David Cameron letting that get past him.

    New sports grounds are not going to be a priority for any government in the near future. Isnt the Windsor upgrade because of a UEFA directive? All seater stadiums?

  • Doctor Who

    Billy Liar

    “For all your pathetic name calling and childish abuse”

    Read back through your narrow-minded hate filled posts and taste the irony. I take it when you refer to the IRFU you actually mean the Ulster branch and team Ulster of that organisation. Strange you respect middle class Prods. more than working class ones. I suppose if you keep telling fibs to yourself you will actually convince yourself you´re right.

    ray of sunshine

    “Yeah, it’s that positive that the most senior person in that organistion spends his summers running around the North in his Orange Sash-lead from the front, eh? ”

    Tell me Ray when did it become illegal to be an Orangeman. Beleive it or not they are not all mindless kick the Pope types. Besides I am quite sure there are plenty of republicans afiliated to the IFA.

  • Glencoppagagh

    Kensei
    I’m guessing that any GAA matches played in a new stadium would involve teams from Ulster and mostly from within NI who could easily drive straight there and back. Admittedly if they were from Cavan or Donegal they might do a bit of shopping but they can do that any time. I would argue that 1,000 foreign football fans will spend more than 10,000 GAA supporters from Donegal (the Croke Park argument) apart from gate receipts obviously.
    Stuart
    NI’s fixtures won’t always be against poorer eastern European states.

  • Glencoppagagh

    And another thing. Football is the one truly global game so a city like Belfast should have one decent stadium for hosting it.

  • Ho ho ho

    Sam, Sam, the Repetitive Man sez: “I dont want to be too dimsmissive after all your hard work – and to be fair there may have been a hint of overstatement [in what Sammy droned on and on and on last year] – but your various celerbarotory ejaculations above are a little pre-mature”. Okay, when would be the right time to start laughing at you for your innumerable claims last year that Sinn Fein would be running policing and justice last year? Other than that, I think we can all agree that you’ve done the right thing in running away from all that horsecr*p you spouted last year about the Bobbybowl too.

  • George

    I don’t understand why the IFA should be rewarded for its incompetence. The reason it is the most needy is because it is the most incompetent organisation of the three being mentioned on this thread.

    Has it managed to get its house in order to a sufficient degree to draw down those millions it was offered a couple of years back? To the best of my knowledge no so why on earth should tens of millions be spent on a new stadium for it?

    In the current climate a couple of million to keep Windsor open and a couple of million to the IRFU and GAA is all that is possible.

    The talk of a rugby and soccer stadium in Belfast was laughable in the boom times, I despair of people suggesting it now.

    For a start, if Ulster do well in the Heineken Cup they can always play in Lansdowne.

    That leaves the Northern Ireland football team. How often will they need a stadium of greater than 20,000 in the next 10 years? Not enough times to warrant any kind of large investment.

    Glencoppagagh,
    “I’m guessing that any GAA matches played in a new stadium would involve teams from Ulster and mostly from within NI who could easily drive straight there and back.”

    You’ve obviously never tried to get a room in Dublin on All-Ireland weekend. People actually travel home from England and such places for big GAA matches you know.

  • Gerr

    What is the crack do we get a hunger striker centre or not? The hunger-strikers laid down their lives for everyone on this island. If any Protestant wants to hunger-strike for some reason, they have our full support.

  • Glencoppagagh

    George
    The IFA doesn’t have to have any share in the ownership of the stadium. They can hire it on a match by match basis, although they would be required to commit to long-term use.
    I don’t see why Ulster should have to travel to Dublin unless they expect an exceptional crowd of >40,000.
    I don’t think it was ever envisaged that the stadium’s capacity would be more than 30,000. Currently, I think NI could attract at least 20,000 for most competitive fixtures. They’re almost invariably sold out at Windsor with a c12,000 (or is it 15?)capacity.
    I doubt that there would be any question of All Ireland matches being played at this stadium – too small obviously – which begs the question of what GAA fixtures would suit it. Ulster GAA already has a fairly large stadium in Clones and I think they prefer it because there’s no VAT on admissions (I may be wrong on this?).
    So the GAA can fill Dublin hotels on two weekends a year, not great for an 80,000+ stadium. No wonder some of them now want the FAI and IRFU to stay on. Which reminds me that when the GAA lose the rugby and football revenue, they’ll want to use Croke as often as possible which means the GAA are even more unlikely to make much use of a new stadium in NI.

  • Billy

    Driftwood

    “The TAXPAYERS money you refer to comes from the British mainland. Not too many TAXPAYERS in West Belfast

    I assume that is supposed to be a dig at Catholics/Nationalists. As someone else pointed out, take a walk down the Shankill sometime – plenty of illegal drinking clubs, UDA/UVF drug dens etc but, oddly enough, very few TAXPAYERS.

    The North has for decades been dependent for > 70% of it’s income on the state i.e British Taxpayers (handouts). I seem to remember a British Prime Minister talking about so-called Unionists who are happy to “sponge” off the UK Exchequer but then rioted when the UK govt moved to stop them discriminating against Catholics.

    The whole begging bowl “economy” of the North is built on sponging and whinging. Unionists are certainly not in any position to critise anyone else.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Which reminds me that when the GAA lose the rugby and football revenue, they’ll want to use Croke as often as possible which means the GAA are even more unlikely to make much use of a new stadium in NI.”

    Croke Park can always accomodate the NI soccer team home games when Windsor Park is getting that bit of upgrade work done.

  • Seimi

    ‘you don´t recognise that no other organisation has worked harder to promote a positive image in their sport than the IFA.’-Dr Who

    Sorry to burst yer wee bubble mate, but have you considered the fact that sport – look at the word, think about what it means – generally doesn’t need to have any sort of positive image exercise, because it is, in fact – sport! It’s supposed to be fun! If any organisation needs to promote the fact that their particular discipline is apparently to be enjoyed, then that discipline, or at least the way it’s promoted/depicted is in serious difficulties!

    Except in the case of NI apparently, where refusal to see soccer as a sport, but instead a way of clarifying who’s one of us and vice versa,is acceptable, and indeed, is the norm.