Inquiry would bear heaviest on those responsible for a small share deaths

No one who saw Eames-Bradleys’ initial brief, never mind their specific terms of reference, could do much other than shake their head slowly in sympathy for two decent men charged with an impossible task. Whatever came out of the machine, was always likely to fall under the category of ‘political football’. Paul Bew’s on the Today Programme contribution from Paul Bew this morning tricks out first the context for the critical reaction, and then what may prove its most fatal flaw; the imperative for telling the truth.
First that controversial £12k:

“The authors of this report are actually rejecting the idea of a hierarchy of victims and they are responding to a real difficulty in that we currently have a number of inquiries, Bloody Sunday and a number of others, looking at only a very small number of victims when over three and a half people have died. The difficulty that Eames and Bradley are faced with is that society is saying “we don’t like that hierarchy of victims, please give us something else”. They have come out and given us something else- the solution being that the family of everyone who died should get £12,000. And the reaction from people seems to be “well actually, we didn’t like that hierarchy of victims, but we still think there is a hierarchy of victims, and we’re not prepared to give equal treatment to terrorists”.

Towards the end he notes the asymetrical effect that such a time bound legacy enquiry is likely to produce in the context of a committed silence from all but the state actors in the conflict:

Lord Eames and Dennis Bradley hope this could help perform a work of major reconciliation. There is a difficulty here about such an inquiry which for example will look at some important issues like the ethnic cleansing of Protestants in border areas. But the difficulty is, who is going to tell the truth?

In particular, do we have a clear and unambiguous statement from the IRA that it is going to contribute? Now don’t forget that the security forces are responsible for only 10% of the deaths in Northern Ireland. The Lion’s share lies with Republican and Loyalist terrorists and within the terrorist community, the IRA.

If we haven’t got a clear statement – and remember currently we have a situation where Gerry Adams will say “I am not a member of the IRA” – how much truth are we really going to get?

And alternatively, the organisations which have documents are the police and the security services, the way this thing will work is that you have everything baring more heavily down on the people who are responsible for a small share of the deaths.”

, , , , ,

  • dub

    “baring” more heavily down and “laying” heavily down. dear, dear. Bear and lie. Lay is a transitive and not an intransitive verb…

  • Mick Fealty

    Fixed. Thanks.

  • Ruby Mags

    I have to say that I am sick to my stomach over the reaction to this report. Watching those people heckle Eames and Bradley before they’d even gotten a word out was shocking, all of them squawking about the £12,000 when there was so many more important things to talk about.

    It’s not PC to say this but as the families of victims have thrown their toys out of the pram then I’m going to do the same… Get over yourselves. 3 words that could change our lives, and by us I mean Northern Ireland as a whole, not just those deemed worthy to be classed as ‘victims’.

    I do not mean to disrespect the families or their suffering; it is they themselves that are doing this with the whole ‘we’re a worthy victim but you’re not’ childish rubbish. EVERYONE in Northern Ireland was affected by the Conflict. EVERYONE has suffered because of it and EVERYONE can class themselves as victims in some sense, all of whom have earned the right to move on.

    Maybe the money isn’t the best idea anyone’s ever had but in shoving forward to try and place themselves above everyone else, not only those families whose loved one was a paramilitary from either side, they are doing wrong by us all. Reconciliation is about airing the truth, accepting the past and trying to move forward, perhaps it’s time these VIP victims gave it a try. I think we could all do with a fresh start…

  • ??

    EVERYONE in Northern Ireland was affected by the Conflict. EVERYONE has suffered because of it and EVERYONE can class themselves as victims in some sense, all of whom have earned the right to move on.

    total shite, obviously noone in your family was shot in the back, blew up as they sat in their car, or murdered as they were shopping.

    a fresh start would be to round up all the terrorists and take them out of society…cant see eames and bradley going for that one, better to pay them off

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I wonder if Al-Qaeda and Hamas are paying any attention to this decision by Eames and Bradley?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    All you would need to do is take out your enemies and blow yourself up and the state pays the bill.

  • edward

    would anyhing that the repuclicans say be taken as face value truth?

    gerry has always denied being a member of the IRA and even though no concrete proof has ever been provided to the contrary it is not taken as the truth.

    But then since we know the govenrment and especially the security forces are known for their bald face lies I guess its only natural to accuse their opposition of the crimes they themselves are guilty of

  • Jim

    Impossible task in all honesty. The whole concept of victimization is mired in ambiguity. But the reaction, especially from Willie Frazer, was so typical. Can he not make his point without getting into the trenches and causing a whole bloody scene. And Jim Allister, an absolute bigot, sticking his bloody nose in as well. Woke up today to see that crap on the TV, pathetic!

  • sevenmagpies

    The report states:

    “The suffering of families from Northern Ireland and Great Britain should be
    recognised.”

    Presumably they mean families from anywhere who have lost relatives as a result of the conflict?

  • Sarah

    I understand how terrible it must be for those that have lost people in the troubles and the outrage that they feel over the payment. But was there any need to protest against the men before listening to what they had to say? Was there any need for those who’d lost loved ones to yell at eachother across the room as if somebody who’d been killed by the IRA wasn’t as bad as being killed by security forces? Was there any need for those who’d had family members killed by the IRA to yell at those who’d died because of the paramilitaries or security forces?

    Lets me honest these two men were never going to get anywhere. Either they select those who’ve lost lives and anger everyone or give everybody money and anger everyone.

  • cynic

    “as if somebody who’d been killed by the IRA wasn’t as bad as being killed by security forces”

    Sorry Sarah, but do you accept that there is any material or moral difference between:-

    1 a terrorist shot dead by the army while carrying a rife or bomb and attempting to murder a police officer or innocent member of the public?

    2 an 8 year old child killed and who has her legs blown off by a bomb in her fathers car planted by the IRA because he was a member of the security forces?

    3 a teenager murdered by loyalists because he was a Catholic in the wrong place and the wrong time?

    4 a loyalist terrorist blown up by his own bomb while attempting to kill Catholics?

    Which of these, if any, do you think should receive a payment (or indeed ‘recognition’)?

    PS two of them had a choice about what they were doing. Two didn’t.

  • wild turkey

    ‘a teenager murdered by loyalists because he was a Catholic in the wrong place and the wrong time? ‘

    thanks for that one cynic as it prompted a very simple question. in the proposed payout, would the family of Thomas Devlin be in eligble for the 12K?. where exactly are the lines drawn in these proposals?

  • C

    Cynic,

    As far as I can see, they all died and hence are all victims. Their families in each case will have suffered and are also victims. Seems pretty straightforward.

    There will always be material differences. As for morality, well this is as subjective as victimhood…Initially I was against the payment but am now seeing where they are coming from.

    ‘Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike.'(Oscar Wilde)

  • Dave

    *Yawn*

    I seem to recall lecturing folks yonks ago that truth and justice went out the window when you elected those who are most responsible for creating victims to positions of power wherein they could influence what level of truth and justice was dispensed to their victims. While some may now feign shock, horror and all manner of indignation, there should be no surprise that victimizers would not allow the focus to be placed on their victims, thereby recasting bogus ‘peacemakers’ as bigots and violent thugs, and reminding everyobody of the ilk they voted for. Blame puppets like Eames & Bradley, but blame yourselves most of all.

  • ??

    As far as I can see, they all died and hence are all victims…………..

    totally obnoxious, criminals arent victims theyre CRIMINALS.

  • ulsterfan

    C

    It is not wise to quote Wilde to support any view, as he, after all is only a comic genius and should not be taken seriously but enjoyed for his odd view of life which does not include morality.

  • Crusty Burke

    Let’s face it, Willie Frazer just LOVES an opportunity to stir the sectarian pot. All he undertstands is the politics of the manufactured outrage. Why does this blatantly sectarian bigot (don’t believe me? read his website) continue to be treated as someone newsworthy?

  • blinding

    ulsterfan said

    “It is not wise to quote Wilde to support any view, as he, after all is only a comic genius”

    Often its the elements of truth that makes some comedy great.

  • DC

    Adams was approached and was told he was scum.

    That’s better than any 12k I am sure. Just the ability to approach him and to say that without fear of force or retaliation was worth it.

    Sometimes you just gotta get it off your chest.

    It will help, I think the payment is a good idea, despite what people say, 12k is still 12k.

    I actually admire Willie Fraser in a way his nothing to lose approach and confrontation with republicans does deliver a sort of nihilism on what republicans view as narrative.

    When someone says you’re a murderer, you’re a murderer, state or civilian who is politicised. You’re still a murderer, part politician, part terrorist and part gangster, but I can’t help be struck by the nihilism of it all and in that case, all round, 12k for nihilism aint bad. Usually nothing comes after a war of nothingness.

    To the future we look, and be grateful that we had better political leadership in the late 90s that plucked us, the younger people, out of that nonsense.

  • Sarah

    Cynic- There were some people killed by security forces that were not terrorists. Bloody Sunday is one example.

    I think there is a distinction in your list. I haven’t stated otherwise that I think terrorist should get sums of money. Thats your assumption.

  • Driftwood

    Presumably the relatives of paramilitaries killed by their mates as part of drug feuds etc, Jim Gray and others will get rewarded. What an obscene mess. Surely Gordon Brown will put a stop to this nonsense. The mainland taxpayer doesn’t need this extra waste of money which could be far better spent on Cancer Research. Even better, why dont the main churches pay for it. Love to see Eames face then.

  • Billyo

    When Neville Chamberlian returned from his meeting with Herr Hitler in 1938 he could at least claim that his appeasment document was believed to ensure “peace for our time” and to avoid bloodshed.

    The Eames Bradley document follows the bloodshed yet appeasement of the men of violence is at its core.

  • Dec

    Cynic/Driftwood

    Just to clarify: ‘terrorists’ blown up by their own bomb or Jim Gray won’t be getting anything – they’re dead. It’s an important consideration.

    Also Cynic

    It’s telling that you automatically assume anyone killed by the Security Forces was a terrorist.

  • West Belfast

    I know you will never ever agree why young men and women joined the IRA (and neither should you) – do you at least understand why they did?

    The only intimidation I ever experienced was by the RUC and British Army – I’ll never forget those experiences but I dont believe they were evil pyschopaths – they were told that we were a hostile community and treated us as such.

    We all have stories to tell – do you all accept this is my story?

  • Driftwood

    Dec, I did refer to ‘relatives of’. So relatives of drug dealers get rewarded. Great.
    This was a sectarian war between Roman catholics and Protestants. Let the Churches pay out. Us atheists shouldn’t pay for their silly squabble.

  • aquifer

    On average the terrorists have already had much more than 12K for each fatality, with claims against the authorities for this and that, money extorted from government contracts, obscene legal aid bills, dole money paid for people who were clearly employed after their own fashion, payments to agents and informants, not to mention all that food and lodging & adult education thrown in, and the supplimentary benefits paid to families with absent breadwinners.

    There is no point in begrudging them anything, they have had it already, and more besides.

    It is the innocent victims that are owed bigtime, and on the balance sheet of the troubles, and on any emotional reckoning, 12K is very small change.

    So small, especially when divided a few times, that it will be spent quick enough to make a useful contribution to domestic reflation.

    Thanks Mr Eames & Mr Bradley for seeing sense.

    “gerry has always denied being a member of the IRA”

    Well maybe in Irish separatist mythology -sorry ideology- he was the Provisional Government Minister on the council that controls the Provisional Army until an all-island electorate votes for a real all-island government.

  • No Such Thing As An Ulster Scot

    “I actually admire Willie Fraser in a way his nothing to lose approach”

    It’s difficult to lose anything when you are an uneducated culchie with terrorist links pretending to be a victims campaigner. What does he have to lose exactly – his outstanding reputation as a bastion of honesty and intelligence?

    The idiot actually does worse in elections than Republican Sinn Fein..

  • True Red

    This idea of a truth and reconciliation process has only two difficulties. The truth bit and the reconciliation bit.

  • The timing and presentation of this report could have been better.A non-starter at the moment. Suicide for Gordon Brown to agree – the Americans are already accusing him of collaboration with Iranian terrorists.

  • picador

    The authors of this report are actually rejecting the idea of a hierarchy of victims and they are responding to a real difficulty in that we currently have a number of inquiries, Bloody Sunday and a number of others, looking at only a very small number of victims when over three and a half people have died.

    I hereby apply for the post of proof reader.

  • ??

    they were told that we were a hostile community and treated us as such. …………..

    if murdering kidnapping and torturing british soldiers and police officers isnt hostile i dont know what is

  • ciaran

    ?? are you saying the whole catholic community was responsible for murder and torture?

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Some facts have to be laid down. Firstly,people who joined the IRA had a chip on their shoulder, were trailer trash, hated Protestants, had no jobs so plenty of spare time and basically were jumped up farmhands. These people lived on the fringes of society and got what was coming to them. Secondly, people who joined the ‘security forces’ were decent people who donned a uniform to ‘protect society’ and loved Catholics. They grudgingly accepted £millions for their sacrafices and in no way can be compared to terrorists and scumbags who skulked in the shadows and shot decent people.Does this sum it up?

  • D.A.

    “looking at only a very small number of victims when over three and a half people have died.”

    That’d only be £42000 then? Cheap at half the price. 😉

  • Earnan

    “On average the terrorists have already had much more than 12K for each fatality, with claims against the authorities for this and that, money extorted from government contracts, obscene legal aid bills, dole money paid for people who were clearly employed after their own fashion, payments to agents and informants, not to mention all that food and lodging & adult education thrown in, and the supplimentary benefits paid to families with absent breadwinners”

    But what about decades of discriminatory and oppressive rule by a government whom one had to pay for (through taxes)? Didn’t that help contribute to a situation where paramilitary groups can go from having 8 guns in the whole city of belfast to bringing down Stormont?

    What about Britain, who’s terrible governance of Ireland has led to untold misery to millions of people on this island over the centuries??

  • Driftwood

    Panchos Horse
    Don’t know about the rest but ‘hated protestants’ was just about right about the IRA. As UVF/UFF hated Roman Catholics. A silly religious squabble.
    Like most conflicts.
    I’m trying to think of a conflict where 1 group of atheists started murdering other atheists because of a disagreement over evolutionary theory. But no doubt you’ll find plenty. Please let me know.

  • Bruno Spiro

    I just don’t know what things are coming to. When a man can’t go out and bomb men woman and children without being regarded as some sort of outcast and then on top of that being denied the legitimate compo he’s entitled to.

    I mean you can survive on the proceeds from robbing banks and blackmailing shopkeepers but it’s tough

  • joeCanuck

    I don’t think you can buy reconciliation with blood money. That is an ancient concept that no longer applies in most places. Instead, people hunger for justice which will come to neither side here.
    And I’d love to know how they arrived at the figure of 12,000. Why not 5,000 or 25,000. Did they consult with the insurance industry?

    Irony; code word is “problem”.

  • USA

    I posted this earlier on another thread.
    I was never too happpy with the proposed 12K payment, simply because it was crass. Willie Frazer, Jim Allister and their sash wearing brethern should be ashamed of themselves. They focused on one part of the discussion report and engaged in a disgraceful publicity stunt. Shameful behaviour.
    This has put a dent into the environment of reconcilliation Eames and Bradley are trying to create.
    The protestors are bitter people with nothing constructive to offer society. Poor Willie Frazer probably needs some kind of councilling, and I mean that in a good way.
    At least you now know from what quarter the nay-sayers come, now you should isolate them.
    Some constructive feedback could yet be of value to Eames / Bradley and therefore society, but todays publicity stunt by the TUV is not the way. From here in the US it seems that Jim Allister even ran over to the BBC to get on the David Dunseith show, but the head of the police department quickly became aware of the situation and got on his cell phone to beat him to the punch.
    Seems Allister had given the whole thing some planning and tried to use the element of suprise to his advantage.
    Disgraceful.

  • DC

    No not shame USA just values reinforced by will, now were not republicans engaged in values reinforced by will?

    Of course both values of each ideology were retarded and the will of the means to the end likewise. Interlocking strategies of limited value, and that’s me being as kind as that payout by saying limited.

    Frankly, I’m glad it’s over.

  • aquifer

    Earman

    ‘But what about decades of discriminatory and oppressive rule by a government whom one had to pay for (through taxes)?’

    There were effective constitutional remedies for that which the Provos chose to ignore in favour of a divisive and murderous campaign for their stated goal of a united ireland. e.g. They chose to destroy the first power sharing executive.

    Unlike others, I have no problem with the fact that more Catholics than Protestants would get 12K.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘just values’

    The ‘they should never been in jail in the first place’ kind of values?

  • DC

    ‘The ‘they should never been in jail in the first place’ kind of values?’

    Yes they should have debated the merits of republican governance rather than militated it.

  • RepublicanStones

    So Willie Frazer was correct, his mates shouldn’t have been sent to jail, is that what you’re saying DC?

  • Ruby Mags

    Here’s the thing about all this, it really depends on who you view as terrorists. Certainly our illustrious collection of abbreviated paramilitary groups, on both sides of the community may I add, would fall into this category but what about other influential figures in the Conflict? What about Paisley’s rousing anti-Catholic speeches during the Civil Rights period? The man single-handedly started a civil war yet he was hailed a peace bringer and man of God, give me a break… If he gave them today he’d be arrested under the Encitement of Hatred Act not given the position of First Minister!

    I have lost friends and family in the Conflict but I don’t think they’d want me crowing on about it to the point where it threatens the positive future they so desperately wanted for us all. Again, it’s about definiton – some responses here have talked about the lack of choice faced by those in the army and RUC when faced with having to shoot someone. While no doubt this is broadly the case, it cannot be denied that there were many cases of utter brutality and vicious violence directed at the Catholic community by these parties. Of course I am angry, of course I want truth but am I willing to destroy my future for the sake of my past? Absolutely not.

    The whole point of a process of reconciliation is to reconciliate. All this talk of ‘innocent’ victims makes me wonder who we are to differentiate between one person’s suffering and another’s? It’s just so sad that people cannot let go. I am a passionate person and I care deeply about my home, call me naive but I thought the point of moving forward actually involved putting some form of distance and closure on the past. I’ll say it again, please get over yourselves for the sake of the rest of us.

  • DC

    “So Willie Frazer was correct, his mates shouldn’t have been sent to jail, is that what you’re saying DC?”

    Just insert Gerry Adams into that sentence instead of Frazer and you see the circle of nonsense that we were once politically engaged in.

    Doesn’t really matter who you say, I, from my own thinking of the situation in terms of political strategies, can see many names from each party appearing in the sentence, whether it’s Willie Frazer or Gerry Adams – etc, doesn’t really matter the means to the end were overplayed, state or civilian.

  • Billy

    DC

    “I actually admire Willie Fraser in a way”

    Really – that speaks volumes about you!

    Do you agree with his viewpoint that the “loyalist” terrorists released under the GFA should never have been locked up in the first place?

    Do you agree with him that Robert McConnell (UVF terrorist and sectarian murderer of inncocent Catholics including women and children) is an “innocent victim”?

    Nationalists don’t “fear” Frazer – he is viewed quite rightly as a bitter man, a hypocrite and frankly laughable as a public speaker.

    His statements about “loyalist” terrorism make it all too easy to expose him for the hypocrite that he is.

    As I have said before, until Frazer is prepared to condemn “loyalist” terrorism – he will continue to be exposed as a hypocrite.

    Anyone who comes on here lauding him as some sort of “champion for justice” is equally hypocritical.

  • Aquifer,

    It was unionists who destroyed the first powersharing executive, not the Provos.

  • Stephen Dedalus

    What a pile of misguided cack u all speak. WE did this. ALL of us. Through inaction or apathy we are all guilty. everytime we uttered discontent at the other side or everytime we shook our heads in dissatisfaction at the other sides actions we encouraged and fed the conditions were ppl s lives would be risked….WE did this. The dead are dead. Let them rest. IRA, UVF, UFF, UDR, RUC, Para…they all fought, some of them died. The innocents who died did so for a reason….so the rest of us could wake up. Theirs is a sacrafice that could want nor need any financial or public recognition……. just a promise of peace on this island.

  • pfhl

    Posted by Driftwood on Jan 28, 2009 @ 11:14 PM

    season ten episode 12 of south park, it’s called go god go. You should watch it.

  • pfhl

    Ruby mags

    I enjoyed your last response at point 45. I had been thinkg of him myself when his son was talking about truth and making up lies about the report on lets talk. Points that Mark Carruthers corrected him on.

    Though i also want to remark about the question that led to the debate. It was about whether the suffering of the families had been any different. When I first heard about this leak and the uproar it was causing, my first question to myself was,’why should families be punished?’

    Im young but I know how evil some of the IRA’s acts were. I also know that from a quick glance of our recent history how evil some RUC men were, some UDR men, some british soldiers and some of our elected politicians, no less a recent first minister. These were hateful people who tore us apart and tried their hardest to stop us getting together. They failed, we agreeed to the good friday agreement and continue to work together for the benefit of the people. One of those mentioned even changed his mind but all this shows in my opinion is how attractive power is. Maybe no need for the snipe at big Ian but he has been my MP for 23 years so i feel i can. There was a point to this rant. Certain people such as Willie dont want us to come together, don’t want us to agree and don’t want us to grow up and move on. They would rather see families continue to suffer their losses whether it be a brother, a father or a son. Equally a sister, mother or daughter. They may had no choice in the actions a loved one got caught up in but according to the naysayers they must suffer more. Not because of what they have done, after all the only thing they have done is loose a family member. They must suffer more for what their family member has done.

    On let’s talk somebody made a point. He said that if a family had knew their was a parlimilitary in their family at least they should expect them to die some time. Would it hurt any less when they do?

  • DC

    “DC

    “I actually admire Willie Fraser in a way”

    Really – that speaks volumes about you!”

    My “in a way” was his straight-talking that you just don’t get from Adams and his warped mythology that wraps up murder as some sort of historical right to motivate people to divide against one another in some bizarre way that this could unite us.

  • Billy

    DC

    I’m no admirer of Gerry Adams either. I certainly don’t come on here praising him or saying that I “admire” him in any way.

    What’s the difference between him dressing up Republican terrorism and Frazer saying that “loyalist” terrorists should never have been locked up?

    Let’s get this straight – Frazer said that “loyalist” terrorists – people who were guilty of vicious murder of innocent men, women and children (sometimes involving sickening torture) purely because they were Catholics should never “have been locked up in the first place”.

    Do you agree with that or not?

    Personally I think that anyone guilty of sectarian murders etc IRRESPECTIVE of which “side” they are from should be in jail. Do you agree with that?

    Willie Frazer obviously doesn’t so, while I sympathize with his loss, it doesn’t give him the right to insult the relatives of the Catholics brutally murdered by the “loyalist” terrorists he defends without being exposed as a hypocrite.

    Personally, I’ll reserve my admiration for those who unreservedly condemn ALL terrorism irrespective of whoever carries it out.

  • DC

    Billy you’re failing victim yourself to those that criticise the 12k, you focus on one thing that is believing that I admire Willie Frazers views. I don’t.

    I admire the way he goes down to Dublin, for example the SF ard fheis, and puts his blunt questions to Adams’s crew.

    If only we had more liberals prepared to stand up for their own values in such a relentless way, particularly in light of the recent race problems in the media, outlining the wider changes to economic development, which has pushed up growth overall not actually reduced job-share – if then we had such forceful ways used for good purposes – perhaps we might be in a different position now.

    That includes what has come to pass in NI over the last 30 years as well, perhaps we could have reduced the level to which we all became retarded and hell bent on waging war on ourselves only to end up pretty much where we started before it all kicked off.

  • No Such Thing As An Ulster Scot

    “I admire the way he goes down to Dublin, for example the SF ard fheis, and puts his blunt questions to Adams’s crew.”

    You admire cheap, shallow publicity stunts?

    Do you admire how he wastes police time with fantastic stories of fighting off twenty IRA kidnappers by himself and using his driving skills to evade hostile provo mobs?

    I’ll bet it made your heart swell with admiration when wee Willie got carried away from Stormont kicking and screaming when Adams and Paisley met for the first time.
    The rest of us can clearly see that the man is a publicity hungry mentalist who uses his “FAIR” group as a vehicle to get his name and face on television and the papers – why can’t you?

  • DC

    Those cheap shallow publicity stunts are only as shallow as the graves of his family matey.

    Willie Frazer is like the captives in roman times who used to tag along with their leaders, brought along with the group to remind the leaders that they were but mere mortals.

    Mr Adams is not the messiah but a very very naughty wee west Belfast boy and Frazer is there to reduce the value of any Adams personality cult.

    Frazer has a tendency to cut pomp out of adams in a similar way Michael McDowell used to. Yes the Irish find it distasteful of course I do too, but for getting the message across it seems to work. Just like McDowell, it has an outcome that tends to knock both parties out when deploying it, for example Adams was run into the mud at last election. It was unionist in flavour but the rationale was not lost on anyone who cared to remain impartial before casting their vote.

  • No Such Thing As An Ulster Scot

    “Willie Frazer is like the captives in roman times who used to tag along with their leaders, brought along with the group to remind the leaders that they were but mere mortals.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!! Bloody hell. Thanks for the laugh.

    If you think Frazer wasting Police time and making himself look like a clown with tales of fighting off twenty IRA by himself is hurting Gerry Adams, then more power to you.

    “for example Adams was run into the mud at last election.”

    How did Willie do in his last election? Or all his previous elections for that matter?