Cameron – the wider appeal

David Cameron’s appearance before the UUs has certainly provoked interest in Slugger. Whatever you think of it, it is a new political ingredient in a familiar cake mix and we’ll have to see if it rises. His speech must be seen in the wider context of his ambition to be the “Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, not the Prime Minister of England.”
Along with recent speeches in Scotland, it strongly implies a final rejection of the idea of an English Parliament. His approach must also cast doubt on Ken Clarke’s plans for “English votes on English laws” which are probably unworkable anyway. Any vision to rebuild Conservative strength in Scotland and Northern Ireland (Wales is almost certainly a lost cause) would hardly be improved by any downgrading of their MPs’ voting rights and numbers in the Commons. Cameron will have to address this soon, as speculation mounts on a general election next year. In the short term he is probably more in need of alliances or understandings with other parties like the SNP in the event of a hung Parliament. This is why his demarche to the UUP is puzzling unless it is followed by a different type of offer to the DUP which might embrace a vision of a united unionism. Nothing Cameron said is directly contrary to the GFA (nor would Fianna Fail organising in the north). All the same, his failure to mention what used to be called the Irish dimension was a serious omission, even in his own interests.

A meaningful Conservative presence in NI politics could in reply revive demands for a Fianna Fail organisation. A significant presence of both parties and the inevitable contests between them , however limited, would be bound to boost the politics of the border. – the last thing NI needs. Cameron should have spoken warmly about matters Irish generally, stressing the new relationship on the basis of internal and external equality, the trends towards virtual interchangeablity and adding in praise for the consistent democratic nationalism of the SDLP. Nationalism throughout these islands is now a permanent fact of life for the modern Conservative party as for everyone else. Since devolution a decade ago, Northern Ireland is no longer the only part of the UK with the right to separate; that right is now in reality if not in expressed law shared by Scotland and Wales. A bold recognition of this obvious fact would begin to allay those fears of Cameron biased against fair dealing for nationalists as Prime Minister and give a nudge of encouragement to less tribal politics. That’s what NI needs from the metropolitan parties. A” new unionism” if it is to mean anything at all has to be rebranded as convincingly non-sectarian and cosmopolitan. To get there, Cameron needs to go much further and take more than the garden centre vote with him.

  • ZoonPol

    Maybe the UUP / ConservativeNI will recapture the DUP Westminster seats.

  • picador

    And so the Tory Wankfest goes on and on …

    Can’t wait til Randolph Cameron gets his cumuppence as Hillary slaps him down.

  • oneill

    Any vision to rebuild Conservative strength in Scotland and Northern Ireland (Wales is almost certainly a lost cause) would hardly be improved by any downgrading of their MPs’ voting rights and numbers in the Commons.

    Brian,

    I’m curious as to why you think they are fighting as lost cause in Wales (as opposed to Scotland)? There’s certainly more internal division between the anti and pro-devolutionists, but recent opinion polls have been pretty respectable in their favour.

  • “Cameron should have spoken warmly about matters Irish generally, stressing the new relationship on the basis of internal and external equality, the trends towards virtual interchangeablity and adding in praise for the consistent democratic nationalism of the SDLP.”

    What a crock. Cameron spoke of his commitment to the NI electorate’s constitutional mandate, in addition he spoke of the partnership which he would continue with ROI. That was enough.

    Why would he mention the SDLP? Was he addressing the SDLP?

    Virtual interchangeability exists only in your head Brian and perhaps the heads in John Hume’s fantasies. Whilst the principle of consent is the basis of NI’s constitutional status there is no ‘virtual interchangeability’.

    By the way, were you not a professional journalist? Can you not write in paragraphs?

  • Drop the heads in second last paragraph.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    It won’t revive anything to do with FF in the north for exactly the reason bores like me said FF in the north would never come to anything. There is *nothing* in the north for FF. Any northern seats they win, whether as themselves or with a CSU-esque SDLP in tow, will do them no good in the one place they care about: the south. And, far more likely, were they simply to crash and burn – as themselves, or as SDLP-FF – all that will do is some small scale collateral damage to morale in the one political system they care about: the Republic’s. There’s no linkage between the revival of the one true and indivisible Tory Party, and, FF-in-the-unfree-6, and there never has been. There was full intra-Tory communion between NI & GB, 1922-1973/4, and as this didn’t provoke FF, under Dev, to come north, trust me, Cowen’s coming up no time soon.

    Anyway, whatever else Dave in town did, the betwetting Republican shrieks on Slugger as to the inevitability of Coming Nationalist Triumph have been as hilariously shrill as ever. More! more!

  • What a hateful brand of woolly nonsense that seeks to deprive Northern Irish people of the opportunity to access the democratic rights and entitlements they should enjoy as citizens of the UK, just in case it might upset anyone!

  • elvis parker

    Brian – I fear you let your underlying anto Conservative sentiment slip in your remark about Wales. The Conservatives have more support in Wales than you imply and look well placed to pick up quite a few seats.

    As for your wider point. Do you feel that an unwritten part of the Agreement was that pro Union people were to be kept at arms length from UK politics in an never ending politcal limbo?

    The GFA recognises partition and Cameron recognises the legitimacy of nationalism but to suggest it was part of the deal that for ever and a day UK politicians must remain indifferent to the Union is to misread that Agreement

    Moreover such a limbo does not build a new Northern Ireland it simply entrenches sectarianism.

    I fail to sees how Fiannia Fail would boost the politics of ‘the border’ as current politics is 100% about the border.

    The crucial difference of course between the Conservatives fully entering the political arena and FF is that FF will never exercise power at Westminster.

    So Cameron’s party can reach people concerned about social breakdown, taxation and the state of the economy more effectively than FF, SDLP or DUP

  • DC

    I think Brian raises a strong point about cosmopolitanism especially in relation to citizenship.

    I’m not at all convinced about this Tory link up but understand the psychological appeal of the branding of the two as one. That might well work until it comes into contact with conflicting political stances and local grievances, perhaps to do with a cut in the block grant under a Tory cost cutting government?

    Put as ever politics is about winning the battle of ideas and without any ideas or ideology, the quick appeal of branding will soon be lost on the open field of political battle. The battle of ideas. And it is a battle parties must win. I am not convinced under Reg that the not-a-merger will work.

    Cosmopolitan citizenship is one worth arguing for. For example, you could work in an Irish language act, give rights to Irish speakers but also have a policy of strengthening rights to eastern European countries, sending out a strong message encouraging a reforming view of Northern Ireland in a post enlarged EU. Writing people into NI not out, offering support for new blood and new ideas. This anti-EU stance of the UUP/DUP and conservative/unionist repulses me and is the reason why I am not open to voting for any in the wider unionist-cum-closed camp.

    Leadership is about inspiring people and to bring about change. It is also about being able to sum up the sign of our times, this whole Tory thing has been done before, and even still the battle of New Labour versus Tories come next election is still to be fought. If Labour remains centrist with a left tilt and not a hard left, the battles will be much tighter.

    Cameron’s good but he’s no Blair, as much as he wishes he could be.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Cameron’s speech was superb as it contained all what Unionists folk want to hear! The Ulster Unionists should be delighted. Cameron has given them guidance and security with the promise of a major ministerial role for an Ulster Unionist in a UK government for the first time! BTW it’s unusual how there has never been a UK PM from NI, where as we’ve had a plethora of Englishmen as well as Welsh and Scots. I’d say the DUP are fuming.

    Anyway, I bet if Cameron becomes the next PM, no doubt his English man Hugh Grant-esque persona and plummy public schoolboy accent will be an anathema to the Scots and it may drive a wedge in deeper between Scotland and England. Surely Unionists have considered this thought!

  • percy

    isn’t it simpler though:
    if themmuns is doing the oul “strenthening the union mullarkey”, why cant we do the oul “FF/SDLP strengthening the right of the Irish people as a whole to self-determination mullarkey”.

    I’m opposed to tip-toeing lest we upset the Brits.

  • percy

    I refer honorable members to this thread:

    Joint FF/SDLP candidate for 2009 European elections in Northern Ireland?

    Brian?

  • Brian Walker

    elvis and o’neill.. you both have a point about the 3 Welsh seats won in 2005. I was too dismissive in the post. However the Tory base in Wales was traditionally much less than in Scotland where they had a majority as late as 1955. Nevertheless, the Tories have something to play for there too I agree. Thanks for pointing this out. O’Nell, please don’t assume “bias” quite so easily. I believe in the alternation of parties in government eventually, on merit. I’m not convinced the Conservatives have achieved that merit but it would be foolish to say they won’t get there…

  • Bored

    Gawd, enough already with the David Cameron threads!

  • George

    I don’t doubt that this Tory business gives a feel-good factor to those unionists who have endured self-imposed exile in the political wilderness in recent years as a result of the rise of the DUP.

    These, dare I say, “moderate” unionists are now being wooed again by a party that is trying to show it has once again found a raison d’etre. Whether it does remains to be seen.

    However, it should be pointed it that just as there is no real tradition of moderate unionists voting for a nationalist party, there is also no real history of moderate nationalists voting unionist.

    At worse, they don’t vote, at best they go to Alliance.

    One thing is for sure: Trimble in a British cabinet certainly won’t win over moderate nationalists.

    If anything, this move only confirms the Simply British ethos of the UUP.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    “A bold recognition of this obvious fact would begin to allay those fears of Cameron biased against fair dealing for nationalists as Prime Minister and give a nudge of encouragement to less tribal politics. ”

    Issues concerning National Identity ( British or Irish ) is at the heart of “tribal politics”. Cameron has now decided to get involved – possibly related to his personal feeling regarding those assinated by the IRA.

    To try and pretend otherwise is politically dishonest but unlikely to fool anyone other than some on the mainland who probably think that Orange marches are protesting about telphones masts.

    This funny alliance will be very damaging for Uninoism and for that reason, the law of unitended consequences, should be warmly welcomed by Nationalists.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    Shure you’re right again Sammy: everything’s grand, and everything’s turning out for the best! back to sleep . . .

  • It’s off-topic, I know, but this is (by my count) the 16th thread on the Tory/UUP affair on the ‘front page’ of Slugger alone.

    What is it about this that excites all you bloggers so much? It says a lot about the political direction of this site, and its bloggers, that the site has become a virtual Tory-zone.

    The supposed neutrality of Sloger O’Toole is starting to look very threadbare.

  • Sloger O’Toole … ?

    Too much wine with my lunch! Slugger O’Toole, of course.

  • percy

    This is all about Trimble’s revenge 😉

  • Finches

    My, how things change!

    “Dublin, the Pope and SF will soon realise that their so called decomissining has been for nothing. SF will never again be in power at Stormont. It is the DUP that are in control now.

    No Surrender and No compromise ever.”

    Posted by: ulsterman at September 25, 2005 07:34 PM

  • darth rumsfeld

    “BTW it’s unusual how there has never been a UK PM from NI,”

    ..er
    Canning -family from Garvagh, though born in England
    Bonar Law-family from Portrush, though born in Canada
    -both eligible to play footie for OWC, and so count in my book

    and there was a chap from the south called Arthur Wellesly who – though a tad embarassed by his Irishness at times – was one of the more significant figures in 19th century British politics

    .. and by way of aside Disraeli was made an honorary member of the Orange Institution in England ( though I doubt if he ever wore his sash on the eleventh night)

  • bob wilson

    Sammy methinks you doth protest too much.
    The last few days have provided much ancedotal evidence of what our polling shows – that normal/UK politics has a strong appeal to both sides of the community not just to unionists.

    Regardless of how much you parrot the line ‘this will help nationalists’ it still wont be true.

  • Dewi

    Tories could pick up 6 seats in Wales:

    Cardiff North
    Carmarthen West
    Vale of Glanmorgan
    Vale of Clwyd
    Aberconwy

    Montgomery (special case)

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    For the lesser island, there’s also Palmerston, his London birth notwithstanding.

    By the way, just to keep Sammy happy: every post made on this thread inevitably has brought Irish reunification closer!

  • darth rumsfeld,

    And don’t forget Palmerston. Though born in London, he would have been eligible to play on at least the Republic’s team. He still has a road named after him in Dublin, full of very fine houses, one of which is inhabited IIRC by Garret Fitzgerald, a well known friend of unionism (despite his parentage!)

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    Bob, if Cameron’s speech didn’t drum into your dense head that Tories are first and foremost precisely Unionists, you remain the liability to the cause you long have been.

  • darth rumsfeld

    Yup
    I’m reading a biography on Palmerston “The people’s darling”. Haven’t yet got to his death, but I remember once being told by a figure now prominent in the UUP-Con dialogue that Palmerston died shortly after a particularly vigorous assault on the chastity of a female servant in which the billiard table was prominently involved…a credit to his nation

    He wasn’t PM, but Edmund Burke was far more influential on politics than many prime ministers

  • percy

    lol
    I think Sammy’s been spotted.
    say UUP and SDLP were to gain 15 MLA’s; it’s still be spun as a win for SF.
    Uncock yer gun IWSMTDI, things will be clearer

  • picador

    Dewi,

    Is Montgomeryshire Little England before Wales?

  • Dewi

    “He wasn’t PM, but Edmund Burke was far more influential on politics than many prime ministers ” – From Dublin though darth.

    “Is Montgomeryshire Little England before Wales? ” – it’s Lembit’s seat – struggling.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    The prospect of Lembit as PM makes me willing to contemplate union with anywhere other than Great Britain – Atlantis, Ultima Thule, Shangri-La. In fact, Lembit-as-PM would see me getting the following tattoo on my forehead – “Asteroid: please land HERE”.

  • darth rumsfeld

    yes dewi, but I sort of extended the categorisation to Ireland ( and btw Burke wasn’t from Dublin) as a gesture to the lost counties of the Kingdom, and a taster for what they might look forward to if the foolishness of 1921 were reversed. Biffo for PM? Tories and FFers are natural bedfellows- they’d do anything for power

  • ““Asteroid: please land HERE”.”

    You cheeky girl/boy 🙂

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Ah Darth, yer kinda scraping the barrel there a bit regarding the good NI/Ulster folk. The folk you mention were all Irishmen from a pre-partitioned Ireland. Kinda don’t have the same weight as Welsh and Scottish contenders in the 20th century!

    BTW, and of course Arthur Wellesley was an auld Dub! A bit of snob and upstart too but he was still an auld Dub from the old Brit capital of Ireland in the province of Leinster!

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Why am I still a UUP voter? ( Or any Unionist)

    Slugger-me-this-one. If the Tories were to offer full integration with the UK do you not think most Unionists would go for it?

    If Cameron had done that on Saturday then I think that the claims being made about the success of this alliance with Unionist voters would be reasonable. (Although of course it would cause a violent reaction from Nationalism).

    The reason he CANT do that is because the consent of the ROI is required – as enshrined in the GFA – and signed up to by the Englezes. One of the main benefits of the GFA was to effectively allow the ROI a veto on integration of Norn Iron with Britain. This was the REAL change in the principle of consent enshrined in the GFA. Voters accepting the GFA were effectively changing the constitional status of Norn Iron and agreeing not to change it FURTHER without another vote.

    It used to be that UU talked of integration -thanks to the GFA this item is now off the agenda and PosbBoyDavidCameron (PBDC) jibber jabbering about one-nation is just a few nice words for the rather desperate Wee (I’ll get into bed with anyone to save my political neck) Reggie.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    BTW, I thought Eddie Burke was born in Dublin!

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    Given the p*ssp**r calibre of Ulster’s most recent addition to the cabinet, I’m not sure we really need to inflict any more of ourselves on the rest of the country just for a while yet. Indeed, short of demolishing Limavady and ploughing salt into the ruins, I’m not quite sure how we can ever fully apologise for the hapless Ruth Kelly.

    PS if the Turtle becomes a cabinet member, I’m guessing formal Islamofascist rule will begin roughly four weeks later. And it’ll be preferable. Certainly more competent, less splenetic, and entailing more harmonious UUCs*.

    *Ulster Ummah Council

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    ….and educated at Trinity College!

  • Dewi

    ( and btw Burke wasn’t from Dublin) – hmmm born in Dublin – Cathlic Mam, Anglican Dad and went to a Quaker school.

    (As if I knew all that meself) Wonderful bloke btw…

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Indeed Dewi, Burke was an auld Dub too, like myself!

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    I am so stirred by the heroic postings of Sammy that sometimes I’m not sure whether it’s him I’m hearing, or the late lamented JFK. See for yourselves:

    Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Provettes, posting in this century, tempered by welfare payments, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage, and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this movement has always been committed, for itself, if not to those whose murders we’ve celebrated, and to which we are committed today, at home and around the world!

    Whom amongst us can truthfully answer, was that Sammy, was that just the Prebama? But let no one deny these words: every post made by Sammy contributes selflessly, needlessly, to the Utterly Irrevocable and More or Less Almost Entirely Upon Us freeing of Ireland from British rule! Stuff drear stuff, like the utterly uninterrupted sovereign supremacy of the Westminster parliament over Northern Ireland, and the famed frangibility of mere Treaties. These are simply facts, and neither Sammy nor I will allow such cowardly contemplations of reality to block Ireland’s clear view of FREEDOM, which if it doesn’t happen tomorrow just after Newsline finishes, will certainly happen not long before Hearts & Minds starts on Thursday. Long live the Republic! (which we’re not members of yet, but only in the real world!)

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Why am I still a UUP voter?

    so reading between the lines of your rambling reply ( as there is little sense in the lines themselves). We can conclude that Unionists would like to be offered full integration by the Englezes, that you accept Norn Iron voted to give up this option in the GFA and you think the Englezes may well break their international treaty obligations.

  • fin

    The conservatives have a few big obstacles in front of them regarding northern ireland, one in particular is interesting and that is the “border agency” at the moment it intends to only secure the island of GB, however you would imagine that the tories would be obliged to extend it to include NI, this will mean re-establishing checkpoints on the Irish border, because it is a land border it will be the most vunerable, or will it include the Irish border for show and in reality still ring fence the island of GB.

    Furthermore IF the tories win the next election, will voters on the “mainland” be confused/happy that their may be a minister who is not conservative but “ulster conservative”

    Is there not also a issue with the StA agreement regarding the possibility of a Ulster Conservative as SoS for NI

    And with regards to names for this new venture, I’ve felt all along its been crying out to be call Conservative Ulster, and with a minor reworking stiff little fingers have the ideal theme tune for them

  • dewi

    Popular Unionist Conservative Ulster Progressive Democratic Force (Vanguard) ?

  • Nomad

    It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it,

    You keep mentioning “One of the main benefits of the GFA was to effectively allow the ROI a veto on integration of Norn Iron with Britain.

    Could you please point to which section of The Agreement this is in? Like it or not, Northern Ireland is, by definition, “integrated” into “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. The people of Northern Ireland can do whatever agreement they choose to enter with the political parties typically associated with England. SORRY. The Englezes. It’s funny coz it’s clever, see. Every. Single. Time. Oh.. and Posh Boy Dave Cameron. (PBDC). Because.. well why not.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Nomad,

    “The people of Northern Ireland can do whatever agreement they choose to enter with the political parties typically associated with England”

    Yes – but the Englezes cant change the archirtecure of the GFA witout the permission of the ROI – this is the international agreement PBDC spoke of on Saturday – reminding unionists( perhaps unfairly given where he was) that they were tied into the GFA.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    Um, Sammy, I know you don’t visit the real world very often, but any sovereign country can change any treaty it wants at any time. And that’s even allowing for your loony supposition that the Republic would presume to disagree. So now that your strawman has well and truly been torched, would you please get back to doing what you do best: keep cheering us with your swivel-eyed theories about how Inevitable Unity is Just Around the CORNER! The Republic forever!

  • Nomad

    It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Yes – but the Englezes cant change the archirtecure of the GFA witout the permission of the ROI”

    Sure, but who wants to?

  • Reader

    It was Sammy… We can conclude that Unionists would like to be offered full integration by the Englezes, that you accept Norn Iron voted to give up this option in the GFA
    Then does the GFA allow for full integration with anywhere?

  • ggn

    BTW, Camerson < Gael. Camshrón 'bent nose'.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Nomad,

    Sure, but who wants to?

    some crazy Unionist will always want to turn back the clock – e.g. TUV Jimbo. The funny guy mentioned immediately below suggested the Englezes might want to tear up the GFA – but I’m not sure many sensible Unionists think that way.

    Why am I still a UUP voter?

    it would be delusional to think a UI was just around the corner…as it would to think Norn Iron is as British as Kent.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Reader,

    as I read it – it allows for integration with ROI – although in sprit it may not.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    Because you’re such a treat, Sammy, and I’d hate for you to one day just vanish in a puff peevish of loon-smoke, so do let’s just get what manner of spoofer you are sorted out here and now.

    You spouted some crap – ‘blah blah blah can’t happen [engage whine] coz it’s in a Treaty‘. It was jolly quickly explained to you that any sovereign state can abrogate any treaty it’s a party to at any time, and your response was? Well, nuthin’. Dearie, dearie me. Seriously, stick to the, “everyfin’s cumin up Green!” patter, as your other act’s pants.

  • Dewi

    “any sovereign state can abrogate any treaty it’s a party to at any time”

    Not this one methinks. Apart from the obvious moral imperative there is a US and ROI involvement that might be pretty significant.

  • Why am I still a UUP voter?

    You thinks wrong. None of this of course touches upon the fact that you don’t even know which strand is affected by inter-state Treaty, and which strands are not [hint: it’s not the way round you’d like it to be]. But if you really want to console yourself with the theory that what happened, happened because Washington told London to do it, go right ahead. You lot couldn’t be funnier if you tried.

  • George

    Why am I still a UUP voter?,
    forgetting the merits or otherwise of Sammy’s arguments, the idea that the British government would simply walk away from this particular international treaty is naive in the extreme.

    The consequences of such a gross display of bad faith, namely binnng the agreed position that it is for the people of Ireland and Ireland alone to determine their constitutional future, would be huge.

    The fact that you don’t seem to understand what the GFA is about shows to me that you don’t know what was signed up to.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Dewi,

    cracking HC weekend just gone and even better one coming up – Kaydiff and Ospreys will be pushed to get through – I think Kaydiff will take a walloping in Biarritz and so it may well depend on their away game at Glouscester. I am a bit worried about Munster as Clermont are one hell of a fecking team.

  • dewi

    Ospreys might need bonus point win v Leicester final game – hmmmm

  • Reader

    It was Sammy… : as I read it – it allows for integration with ROI – although in sprit it may not.
    It rules out close integration with anywhere for a political generation at least. And unless ‘Why am I still…’ is a cover for Bob McCartney (which seems unlikely) then I expect he realises that.
    The short to middle term is covered by the GFA: “the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights,…”
    That seems to tie the hands of either government equally.
    Of course, in the long term, anything can happen.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Ah Darth, yer kinda scraping the barrel there a bit regarding the good NI/Ulster folk. The folk you mention were all Irishmen from a pre-partitioned Ireland. Kinda don’t have the same weight as Welsh and Scottish contenders in the 20th century!”

    Shure and bedad isn’t it great that I’ve gone all anti-partitionist greagoir?
    As for the Scottish contenders in the 20th century-McDonald, Douglas Home and Brown don’t climb out of division three. Blair is -amazingly- the greatest Scottish pm of the 20th century
    Welsh? Lloyd George would have got nowhere without Bonar law doing the donkey work while the Goat was philandering.

    “( and btw Burke wasn’t from Dublin) – hmmm born in Dublin – Cathlic Mam, Anglican Dad and went to a Quaker school.”
    Well I always understood he was reared in Dublin, but doubts about his birthplace meant that some thought he was born in Cork- where the family originated. I know Wikipedia says Dublin, but if I recall correctly Conor Cruise O’brien- whe wrote the most entertaining biography of the man, if not the most detailed- wasn’t so sure

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Reader,

    re. “It rules out close integration with anywhere for a political generation at least.”

    Legally ruled out with with UK surely ? In practical terms i.e. lack of votes, probably with ROI.