“Sectarianism is alive and well, we know that.”

On this week’s Politics Show, BBC NI political correspondent Martina Purdy reports on the state of community relations in the aftermath of last week’s homecoming parade and associated protests – complete with those ubiquitous “community” workers.

, , , , ,

  • Ranger1640

    Are the shinners thick or what, do they think people buy the “it was them‘ens that dun it” it was the MOD what dun it.

    No one I know believes a word that Sinn Fein says any more they have played the “we are victims” card once too often and the last of once the patience has been given to Shinners.

    They really are them selves alone. Sad sad bunch!

  • KieranJ

    Two words :

    JOINT AUTHORITY.

  • haven’t they rebranded as “community organisers” yet??

  • picador

    Mark,

    Are you saying that Obama was a Provo?

  • edward

    Why d onionists thinkthat GFA / STA is croppy lie down?

    In away it does mean that SF has legitimizes Storomont but its as equally accurate to say onionists have legitimized republicans goal of a united Ireland and infact have enshrined into law a mechanism for the destruction of their sectarian kingdom.

    Now a onionist veto is as much a fairy tale as Finn McCool, though much less entertaining

  • wild turkey

    Its little snippets like this that effectively erode whatever post-election/Obama glow I might be experiencing. Thanks Pete.

    That said, the clip is a potential prize winning advert for both the CRC and the wider ‘community relations’ industry.

    What other business could run with a strapline along the lines of ‘We try, we fail… and you need us more than ever’

    and then with perhaps with the mournful of drone of pipes, and of course also accordians, in the background continues …’Yes, in spite of massive and prolonged investment and expenditure, maybe we haven’t accomplished much in terms of tangible results, but hey, our hearts are in the right place, are salary’s in the right place, we have jobs…and in these times of recession and credit crunch that’s an important contribution to the, uh, community’

    What would we do without them?

  • ??

    have legitimized republicans goal of a united Ireland and infact have enshrined into law a mechanism for the destruction of their sectarian kingdom….

    ??? legitimized a goal , how so, you can have a goal to set a republican on the moon and doesnt mean you`ll reach it,… bit like a UI

  • runciter

    What other business could run with a strapline along the lines of ‘We try, we fail… and you need us more than ever’

    British army in Afghanistan & Iraq?

  • wild turkey

    ‘British army in Afghanistan & Iraq? ‘

    Runciter. Spot on. (Actually, the line is based on my teenage diaries and experience of conflict resolution in Vietnam.)

    Anyway, thank you. Obviously the line is not product specific… but it does have to do with a persistant self interested and justifying take on what would be passed to us as ,uh, ‘reality’.

  • edward

    ??

    never the less, the goal has been recognized and legitimized and accepted by onionists

  • Ann

    never the less, the goal has been recognized and legitimized and accepted by onionists

    Edward, I refer you to Ed Moloney’s book, ‘Paisley’, in which he discussed why Paisley did an apparent about face and went in to govt with SF. It was certainly nothing to do with legitimising anything republican, but to do with his conditions being met under SAA.

    Legitimising Stormont does not equal legitimising a UI…. far from it.

  • GavBelfast

    Is this what gelded republicanism – in the form of some Slugger sock-uppets anyway – has been reduced to: referring to their opponents as “onionists”?

    Pathetic – even by turnip standards. 😉

  • LURIG

    I would say about 5% of the community is actively involved in cross community work or has some input into it. That leaves about 95% of the population who are living, schooling and socialising with their own side. Yes people work together but very often it’s through gritted teeth, false respect and backstabbing about ‘themmums’ but the fact is most of us feel far more comfortable with ‘our own’ AND it is a nonsense. Some of the slimiest backstabbers in work I ever met were from ‘my side’. The North/Northern Ireland is still a very divided society as last Sunday in Belfast City Centre showed and the current political vacuum is feeding this sectarian monster. When a politician from the other side comes on the media and blames ‘themmuns’ we still resort to the base and say “Listen to that bigoted so and so. They are nothing but a shower of bigoted b*****ds”. I defy anyone to deny that! Sectarianism is eating away at this place and events on the ground show that there is a gradual slow descent into the way it was. It is worrying as we are 2 communities TOTALLY living parallel lives in different universes! Collectively our 2 tribes can be a shower of hateful bigoted knuckledraggers and this mistrust is sad, untrue and stereotypical bullshit as individually some of the best people I ever worked with, drank with and worked with were ‘themmuns’. I recently had a few drinks with a Protestant friend who said “Why do you lot seem to enjoy yourselves more?” I said to him “Why were some of the best bosses I ever had in work from your side?” Confused you bet I am.

  • George

    The latest attempt to breathe life into the political apparatus that is Northern Ireland is failing before our eyes.

    The weather vanes that are the community workers are the first indication of it. Things will only deteriorate and, truth be told, I don’t see any way the current dispensation can prevent.

    It has given us nigh on 13 years and will deliver probably another two so we shouldn’t complain. But it’s Seven years, five months to 2016 and counting.

  • LURIG

    “Worked with, drank with AND worked with”???. LOL! I can assure you I NEVER worked with, drank with and then went back to work AGAIN with ANYONE! (AYE RIGHT). I meant to say “Worked with, drank with and played sport with”.

  • Modernist

    Im not sure if im tackling this the right way but Im interested in posing this question to unionist commenters here. I honestly would like to know as much of the background to the views as possible. I would also appreciate it if any responses were contructive. You can take my question whatever way you want… Im just interested to know

    What is it about the following that so many Unionists seem so opposed.

    1)an Irish language act
    2)policing and justice being devolved
    3)the right to hold a peaceful protest against something you dont agree with but the others are all for

  • edward

    has been reduced to: referring to their opponents as “onionists”?

    Pathetic – even by turnip standards. 😉

    Posted by GavBelfast on Nov 09, 2008 @ 10:45 PM

    nahh its tweaking the nose of those that use oirish

  • Dave

    “But it’s Seven years, five months to 2016 and counting.” – George

    And it’s probably 2 years since any Shinner supporter even mentioned ‘liberation by 2016.’ The shepherds quietly dropped that delusion so the sheep dropped it too – think of it as trickledown sloganomics.

    The leaders of 1916 rejected the Home Rule that northern nationalists accepted. This lot are as ‘republican’ as the Redmondites. They don’t object to British rule; they object to being excluded from the administration of British rule. It is 2014 they should mark – the date when Home Rule was passed.

    That is the actual Shinner/British agenda insofar as it encompasses unity: a reversal of what was obtained by the rising of 1916 (independence, a nation-state, self-determination) and its replacement by what offered in 1914, albeit in updated format and presentation.

  • Blair

    “What is it about the following that so many Unionists seem so opposed.

    1)an Irish language act
    2)policing and justice being devolved
    3)the right to hold a peaceful protest against something you dont agree with but the others are all for”

    Modernist,

    Good questions.

    1) The Irish language has been used by republicans as a weapon against the union. I believe there was a republican who once said that “Every word spoken in Irish was a bullet fired at the British establishment.” or something similar. This is very unlikely to endear the language to unionists.

    2) The main problem with devolving policing and justice is the future prospect of an IRA terrorist being responsible for law and order in the country. If an agreement can be reached that ensures that only agreed candidates can take the job on then there should be no problem with devolving policing and justice.

    3) I don’t think there is a problem with ‘peaceful protests’ per se. The problem however is that quite often republican ‘peaceful protests’ develop into riots, and the threat of this is often used by republicans as an intimidatory tool to prevent whatever it is they are protesting against from taking place. I believe republicans rowed back from doing this last Sunday because they saw that it would do their cause great harm in America.

  • Greenflag

    Dave ,

    ‘The leaders of 1916 rejected the Home Rule that northern nationalists accepted.’

    The leaders of 1916 IIRC were shot. What do you expect Northern Irish Nationalists and Republicans to do ? Go back to the gun? Walk out of the Assembly ? Try and be specific .

    Politics is the art of the possible.

  • Ann

    Walk out of the Assembly ?

    Isn’t that what they’ve done?

    Politics is the art of the possible.

    Usually, but we’re doing our best to be the exception to the rule.

    I don’t think anyone wants to go back to the bullet or the bomb, but how someone could support and assembly thats been up and down more than a tarts knickers, and when it gets up eventually and tries to stay up stalls at the first hurdle.

    Try and be specific .

    As specific as 2016?

  • Es Cosa Nostra

    ;-0

  • ciaran

    Probably wise to remember, all this sectarianism took decades, if not generations to bed in. Why would anyone think that it is just going to go away in a couple of years. It could easily take decades to disappear.

  • Dexter

    What is it about the following that so many Unionists seem so opposed.

    1)an Irish language act

    Too woolly a question, An Irish language act could be supported by everyone or opposed by everyone depending on what is written in it. It’s like asking how long is a piece of string.

    However the Irish language has a history of being used as a territorial marker and badge of exclusion/inclusion, classier but little different in principle from painting kerbstones red, white and blue. For example it’s use in Queen’s students union in the 90s led to a reduction of the number of students of a unionist background using those fallicities, or even attending the institution at all. It is not neutral and should not be used in “shared space” such as a shared workplace, at least without some mitigating context.

    Requiring court cases to be held in Irish on request, government letters etc. is a waste of money for what is 99% of the time a political display. Same with Ulster Scots. I would not want public money wasted on the equivalent of kerb painting for one community. The 1% of the time where there might be some practical value, as with Hindi or Latvian or Braille fair enough.

    Ultimately though supporting or opposing such an act is entirely a function of what is written in it.

    2)policing and justice being devolved

    No objection in principal. The objection is to criminals having control over the police, whether unreconstructed PIRA, Albanian money launderers, East End gangsters or anything else. Surely the reason for concern is obvious. Putting in control over the police people linked to the criminal gang who pulled off the largest bank heist in UK history only four years ago. Surely you don’t have to be a genius to work out the reason for concern.

    3)the right to hold a peaceful protest against something you dont agree with but the others are all for”

    Few object to what you’ve just said. If George Galloway had turned up supported by members of STWC and the SWP and the like it would be a completely different context. However, as Gerry Adams revealed, much of the attitudes behind those protesting were based on an intolerance of having Britishness about the place. It’s not the right of the protesters to protest that was in question but their motives, which were largely based on anti-Britishness. Why a person who considers themselves British would object to this is surely obvious. Not too different I’d imagine than if 300 protesters turned up to jeer the Saint Patrick Day parade for using the tricolour or symbols of the Republic of Ireland. On that while I would love a neutral St Patrick’s parade i still recognise that people have a right to one where tricolours and the like are flown if that’s their want and would not support such an inflammatory counter protest.

  • Dexter

    Or to put it in another way Gerry Adam’s comments were themselves condemning the whole concept of “parity of esteem” that he parrots endlessly. He clearly does not consider the Britishness of unionists and the Irishness of nationalists to be equivalent, but rather that one is morally predominant. He simply sees Britishness as some alien cancer to be removed from Northern Ireland. He is only capable of seeing the sons and daughters marching as British soldiers and not as what they also are, namely Irish men and Irish women who also (in many case though undoubtedly not all) consider themselves British, marching in the very city were undoubtedly a fair few of them were born. Nothing could be less alien. Yet to him they’re oppressive alien life forms. This shows that Sinn Fein’s “parity of esteem” and “equality for both traditions” rhetoric is a sham.

    It’s not the right or otherwise to counterprotest that sticks in the craw so much as the hypocracy embodied in the anti-Britishness of it, particularly in this supposedly new era. The hypocracy as pointed out rightly by Eamon McCann.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamon-mccann/letrsquos-stop-parading-agreementrsquos-ambiguities-and-end-the-gridlock-14038906.html

  • runciter

    Dexter, how is a parade by the British Army in Belfast about parity when no equivalent right exists for nationalists?