100 reasons to protest?

éirígi’s latest press release lists 100 court cases involving members of the UDR/RIR

1. John Gaw, Greenisland, County Antrim: Sentenced to 10 years in March 1977 for possession of arms and training UVF East Antrim members. Involved in 76-day UVF trial which ended with 27 men receiving a total of 700 years plus eight “Lifes” for UVF activity.
2. 3. 4. Ronald Gibson, Mark Mam and Kenneth Spence, Newtonabbey: Fined £50 each in February 1979 for breaking into and desecrating local Star of the Sea Catholic Church.
5. James Gilles, Belfast: Jailed for four years in May 1975 for illegal possession of a firearm.
6. Thomas Gruers, Magherafelt: Fined £50 in February 1981 for firing shots from a Walther pistol during a fracas – apparently between nationalists and unionists – in Portrush.
7. Louis Hathaway, Gilford: County Down, fined £100 in August 1979 for possession of a loaded pistol while drunk near an anti-internment protest.
8. Raymond Higgins, Belfast: Jailed for two years in March 1981 for illegal possession of a firearm and attempted rape.
9. Henry William Hutchins, Limavady: Jailed for five years in March 1975 for armed robbery. A known member of the UDA.
10. Geoffery Edwards, Armagh: Charged in December 1983 with the murder of Sinn Féin election worker Peter Corrigan, plus four attempted murders, including that of Seamus Grew (subsequently shot dead by the RUC).
11. Mervyn Joseph Faloon, Tandragree: Sentenced to five years in February 1978 for shooting into the catholic Obins Street enclave in Portadown on July 12 1977.
12. Samuel Farrell, Enniskillen: Sentenced to 18 months in November 1977 for bombing a dance hall in Donegal in 1974.
13. William Ferris, Belfast: Suspended sentence in February 1974 for possessing a shotgun and ammunition in suspicious circumstances.
14. James Gallagher, Belfast: Six months suspended in February 1974 for possession of firearms in suspicious circumstances.
15. William Gallagher, Belfast: Sentenced to 10 years in April 1979 for five armed robberies. Known to be a member of the UVF.
16. Robert Joseph Gamble, Belfast: Sentenced to five years in February 1972 for bombing Lisburn Council offices. Fellow bomber killed in the operation. Known to be a member of the UVF.
17. Samuel Cookey, Belfast: Sentenced to life in March 1977 for possession of a home-made machine gun, sawn-off shotgun, 10 short-arms, an SLR and 3,089 rounds of ammunition. Member of UVF.
18. Basil Corbett, Fermanagh: Sentenced to two years in March 1983 for 15 sectarian offences, including issuing death threats to local catholics.
19. George Henderson Corry, Portadown: Fined £50 in June 1975 for being drunk in charge of a gun.
20. Trevor Craig, Antrim: Suspended sentence in June 1978 for attempted armed robbery.
21. Raymond Crainey, Armagh: Jailed for six months in March 1973 for illegal possession of a pistol and firing it while drunk.
22. Thomas Crossey, Lisburn: Jailed for 18 months in June 1973 for possessing a loaded pistol in suspicious circumstances.
23. 24. Ivan Dalgleish and Thomas Canavan, Belfast: Each jailed for nine years in March 1974 for bombing a catholic-owned pub in County Down.
25. Michael Doherty, Belfast: Sentenced to four years in February 1984 for illegal possession of three rifles, a silencer, six magazines and 101 rounds of ammunition.
26. John Best, Belfast: Sentenced to two years in February 1978 for assembling a bomb for the UDA.
27. Desmond William Boyd, Strabane: Fined £20 in April 1978 for firing off a machine-gun while drunk and off duty.
28. William John Cahoon, Belfast: Fined £125 in December 1983 for reckless driving. Allegedly tried to run down two youths from the Ardoyne area.
29. Harold Cardwell, Carrickfergus: Jailed for 18 months in January 1976 for illegal possession of a shotgun. UVF connections.
30. 31. Samuel Carson, Bangor and Noel Moore Boyd, Belfast: Jailed for 15 and 12 years respectively in October 1976 for bombing an Irish pub in Kilburn, London.
32. Barry Clarke, Fivemiletown: Convicted of attempted armed robbery. Suspended sentence in February 1981.
33. Kenneth John Cockrane, Magherafelt: Fined £100 in August 1983 for possession of loaded firearm, drunkeness and assault.
34. Gerald Atkinson, Magherafelt: Sent to Borstal in March 1974 for the attempted bombing of a catholic church.
35. John Alexander Aughey, Belfast: Fined £100 for illegal possession of ammunition in May 1976.
36. David Frederick Beck, Belfast: Sentenced to five years in February 1975 for armed intimidation of catholics during the UWC strike.
37. Edward McIlwaine, Belfast: Sentenced to 15 years in February 1979 for kidnapping, assault and possession with intent. One of the infamous Shankill Butchers, it was not until after their conviction that the UDR membership of McIlwaine was made public.
38. Alasdair McKendry, Ballymena: Charged in August 1983 with armed robbery, illegal possession of arms and UVF membership.
39. William McVeigh, 7th Battalion UDR HQ: Jailed for three years in October 1973 for possession of a revolver in suspicious circumstances.
40. Edgar Meehan, Castlederg: Sentenced (in Dublin) to six months in March 1976 for illegal possession of a sub-machine gun and 35 rounds of ammunition in County Donegal.
41. 42. 43. 44. Ronnie Nelson, ‘Billy’ Yearl, Sammy Anderson and Billy McCleanaghan, Cookstown-Maghera: Sentenced to 10 years each in April 1978 for ‘robbing’ 320 guns, 9,500 rounds of assorted ammunition, grenades and a rocket from Magherafelt UDR armoury, plus robbery and sectarian arson attacks. Also known to be members of the UDA.
45. Henry McConnell, Belfast: Fined £65 in April 1975 for possession of ammunition in suspicious circumstances.
46. Joseph Dennis McConville, Annaghmore, County Armagh: Jailed for two years in September 1976 for theft of ammunition from a British Ministry of Defence firing range.
47. Henry McCosh, Belfast: Sentenced to six months (suspended) in February 1974 for possession of a revolver and more than 200 rounds of ammunition in suspicious circumstances.
48. 49. 50. 51. Roderick Shane McDowell and Raymond Thomas Crozier: Jailed for 35 years in October 1976 for the Miami Showband massacre. Two other UDR men, Wesley Sommerville and Harris Boyle, blew themselves up in the same incident. All four were also members of the UVF.
52. Joseph McGranaghan, Belfast: Jailed for two years in April 1974 for possession of a revolver (previously ‘stolen’ from an RUC man) in suspicious circumstances.
53. James McGucken, Coagh, County Tyrone: Fined £100 in December 1976 for assaulting a local catholic.
54. Richard Long, Comber, County Down: Sentenced to life in May 1977 for conspiracy to kill catholics.
55. Trevor Lyle: Jailed for one month (suspended for two years) for illegal possession of firearms in June 1976. Charge reduced from attempted murder.
56. Jeffrey Lynn, Tobermore, County Derry: Jailed for six months in September 1976 for handling stolen property. Originally charged with the September 1975 armed robbery of Knockloughrim Post Office – prosecution witness, William Millar, subsequently murdered by fellow members of Lynn’s ‘5th Batt. UDR’.
57. William McClanaghan, South Derry: Sentenced to eight years in May 1978 for bombing a catholic-owned shop in Ballinascreen.
58. William McComb, Banbridge: Jailed for 10 years in November 1976 for possession with intent and armed robbery on behalf of the UVF.
59. David Laffin, Belfast: Sent to Borstal in March 1976 for possession of a sub-machine gun and 760 rounds of ammunition in suspicious circumstances. The gun had been ‘stolen’ from Portadown UDR armoury in 1973.
60. 61. 62. 63. 64. 65. 66. Neil Lattimer, William Roleston, David Ian McMullan, James Hegan, Winston Allen, Noel Bell and Colin Warton: Charged in December 1983 with the murder of Adrian Carroll in Armagh. All based at Drumadd Barracks, Armagh.
67. Thomas Leonard, County Tyrone: Sentenced to life in October 1975 for the machine-gun murder of James and Mary Devlin at Edendork, Tyrone, in 1974. He was later given concurrent sentences for a series of other offences.
68. Alister Roger Lockhart, Armagh: Jailed for 10 years in May 1975 for a car bombing in Armagh, illegal possession of firearms and other offences. A known member of the UVF.
69. Samuel James Logan: Appears to have been the first UDR man to appear on a charge in a court. From Derry, he was convicted in September 1971 for illegal possession of a pistol.
70. Thomas Irvine, Belfast: Jailed for five years in February 1976 for illegal possession of a firearm. Known member of the UDA.
71. Alexander Irwin, Armagh: Jailed for three years in November 1975 for possession of bomb-making equipment. Known member of the UVF.
72. Glynn Jones, Belfast: Sentenced to six months in February 1973 for illegal possession of ammunition.
73. Derek Kennedy, Armagh: Jailed for 18 months (suspended) in November 1976 for setting fire to a catholic school and a methodist church.
74. William Frederick Kennedy, Belfast: Fined £50 in January 1977 for being drunk in charge of a loaded pistol. He had wounded a companion while toying with the weapon in a pub.
75. Derek Hugh Kinkaid, Belfast: Jailed for eight years in December 1974 for armed robbery of a post office. Known to have UDA connections.
76. John Thompson: Jailed for three years at Belfast Crown Court in May 1974 for the manslaughter of Phillip Lowrey.
77. Gerald Todd, Belfast: Sentenced to one year (suspended) in January 1973 for the illegal possession of a sub-machine gun.
78. Denis George Warton, Loughgilly, County Armagh: Jailed for six months in September 1977 for armed robbery.
79. Patricia Shirley Whyte, Limavady: Charged in February 1984 with the attempted murder of a local woman in the same month.
80. William Michael Workman, Islandmagee, County Antrim: Sentenced to five years in March 1977 for possession of a sub-machine gun and three other guns. Known to be the ‘Training Officer’ of the East Antrim UVF.
81. Kenneth Young, Portadown: Sentenced to five years in February 1978 for shooting up the catholic Obins Street area of Portadown on July 12 1977.
82. Brian Roberts: Sentenced to life in January 1983 for killing Liam Canning at Alliance Avenue on August 9, 1981. The killing was claimed at the time by the ‘Ulster Freedom Fighters’ (UFF).
83. Thomas Simpson, Belfast: Jailed for 18 months in April 1976 for illegal possession of two rifles and 40 rounds of ammunition. Known to be a member of the UVF.
84. William Smith, Belfast: Sentenced to nine months (suspended) for illegal possession in March 1973.
85. David Stone, South Derry: Jailed for 12 months in February 1974 for using a gun to intimidate a woman into withholding from the RUC the names of people involved in an assault.
86. Laurence Tate, Moygashel, County Tyrone: Jailed for 12 years in December 1975 for bombing a catholic-owned pub in Dungannon.
87. Malcolm Nesbitt, Belfast: Sentenced to three years in October 1977 for armed robbery.
88. Albert Maurice Parkhill, Coleraine: Suspended sentence in February 1978 for the ‘robbery’ of six rifles from UDR armoury and membership of UVF.
89. William Ramsey, Belfast: Five years in February 1975 for armed intimidation of catholics during the UWC strike.
90. 91. 91. 92. Ben Redfern, John Little, Samuel Hunter Davidson and Gregory Allen, South Derry: All sentenced to life in January 1979 for sectarian murder. Redfern for the murders of John Bolton, James Chivers and Joseph McAuley; the others for the murders of Bolton and McAuley. Other concurrent sentences for robbery, arson etc.
93. Steven Fletcher: While the killing of human rights solicitor Pat Finucane has highlighted the role of RUC Special Branch, the one point that has been largely overlooked is that Steven Fletcher, who served in the UDR, was convicted of supplying the weapon used by Finucane’s killers. Fletcher is said to have ‘stolen’ the pistol from Palace Barracks in Holywood, County Down.
94. Robin Jackson: Jackson’s reputation as the chief executioner in the North’s notorious “murder triangle” dates from his first arrest in October 1973, when the widow of a catholic factory worker called Patrick Campbell picked him out of an RUC line-up in Banbridge, Co Down.
Mrs Campbell answered the door when UDR and UVF member Jackson, and an accomplice, came calling. She had ample time to study both men’s faces before summoning her husband, who was at once cut down in a hail of bullets and died on his own doorstep.
On her evidence, Jackson was later charged with murder but two months after his first remand in custody he was mysteriously released when the DPP decided not to proceed against him.
Jackson’s next public appearance was in the dock at Belfast Crown Court in January, 1981, when with two other unionist gangsters, he was sentenced to seven years for possession of arms and ammunition. By then, his name was a by-word for murder.
The producers of Yorkshire Television’s `The Forgotten Massacre’, a documentary broadcast in 1992, belatedly identified Jackson as a key member of the unionist death squad whose bombing raids on Dublin and Monaghan 18 years earlier had slaughtered 33 people. Although their evidence against him included eight hours of taped testimony from one of The Jackal’s principal accomplices, the British law of libel is such that the station dared not name him. Fourteen months after the Dublin bombing, Jackson led the UDR/UVF team which ambushed the Miami Showband, on their way home from a gig.
Major Colin Wallace, one of the principal Deception Planners employed in the Information Policy Unit at the British army’s General Headquarters in Lisburn during the formative years of Jackson’s career said: “Everything people have whispered about Robin Jackson for years was perfectly true. He was a hired gun. A professional assassin. He was responsible for more deaths in the North than any other person I knew. The Jackal killed people for a living. The State not only knew that he was doing it. Its servants encouraged him to kill its political opponents and protected him.”
By the mid-1980s Jackson, under the title ‘the Jackal’, regularly featured in newspaper stories which reported his alleged role in a number of killings. Among his last victims were reported to have been three Catholics, Eileen Duffy, Catriona Rennie, Brian Frizzell, shot at a mobile shop in Craigavon in 1991 and brothers Gerard and Rory Cairns of the Bleary, County Armagh murdered at their home in October 1993. After that, his UVF mantle was said to have passed on to Billy Wright, the unionist known as ‘King Rat’.
95. William Thompson, RIR, Hamiltonsbawn, County Armagh: Convicted of possessing weapons belonging to unionist paramilitaries. When the RUC raided Thompson’s home they found material produced by the neo-Nazi Combat 18 group. When originally arrested, Thompson was questioned about the 1999 killing of Lurgan human rights solicitor Rosemary Nelson. Thompson, who joined the UDR in 1989, and transferred across into the RIR, was said to be a close associate of LVF leaders Billy Wright and Mark Fulton.
96. In 1990, after large amounts of security files were passed to loyalists, John Stevens, who later headed the Metropolitan Police, launched the first of three inquiries into collusion with unionist death squads. Ten members of the UDR were charged as a result of the probe.
97. Jason Chittick: The RIR member appeared at Craigavon magistrates court charged, along with two others, with the murder of 17-year-old Lurgan schoolboy Gavin Malcolm in 1994.
98. Neil Irwin: The RIR member pleaded guilty in Belfast’s Crown Court in 1995 to involvement in five murder conspiracies and to aiding unionist death squads.
99. In June 2000, following a formal investigation the British government announced that no action would be taken against a British army officer who unfurled an Orange Order flag while a regimental photograph was being taken. The photograph, picturing a major of the 8th battalion RIR and 60 uniformed Royal Irish Regiment members with an Orange Order banner, was taken on July 12 1999, shortly after the Orange Order’s annual Drumcree parade. The RIR men were holding a pro-Orange Order banner, which read: “Drumcree: Here we stand, we can do no other. For religious and civil liberty.”
100. Jonathon Russell, RIR, Woodland Manor, Portadown: was given an 18-month suspended sentence in 2002 for involvement in rioting at Drumcree.

  • Shore Road Resident

    While this is certainly a disgraceful list, it should be noted that 40,000 people served in the UDR between 1970 and 1992 alone. So even if all 100 people named above served in the UDR during that period, and even if all 100 committed a crime (not all the examples above are criminal, or resulted in convictions – and they include things like “drunkeness”, which is a bit of a stretch) then that gives a conviction rate of 0.25 per cent.
    This is extremely low compared to the general population, let alone the general population of young men.
    One can only conclude from Eirigi’s list that the UDR, while far from perfect, was also far more professional than is widely believed.

  • Fermanagh Young Unionist

    For God’s sake this whole sorry situation is becoming a joke.

    You people clutch at straws and when you do find a bad apple on a massive tree you keep clinging onto it for dear life.

    But then again you people seen the provos as ‘heros’ lol.

  • ulster exile

    Nice to see the ” you people” brigade having a shout!!! makes me proud to be Northern irish!

    While i agree that the above list is extremley deplorable, surely the fact that its a list of 100 “convictions” shows the willingness of the British authorities to act on the Devient element that has always been prevelent in our society! especially those with in the establisment.

    Such a press release would seem like a double sided sword for eirigi

  • fin

    gosh the provo’s mentioned on the 2nd post, not a record, but not bad.

    This is a marketing PR so it isn’t going to go into any boring detail, of which more can be seen here

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/subversion_in_the_udr.htm

  • ulster exile. wtf?

    google glennanne gang to see the brits willingness to act against this regiment…catch yourself on ffs

  • fin

    Willie Fraser has kindly published those offending photos of the RIR’s orange parade, complete with sashes and fifes, wonder what the attire will be at the weekend

    http://victims.org.uk/s08zhk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=79

  • cynic

    Mark

    Thank you for posting this very strong evidence of the concerted efforts by the British Army, RUC and Government to bring to justice any members of the Regiment who behaved improperly. Its great to see this highlighted in this way.

    And 100 cases over 35 years is less than 3 a year on average. Amazingly good for an organisation this size working in this environment.

  • fair_deal

    Cynic

    You have to remember as well that most of these offences would have also been dealt under the Diplock system which has been consistently criticised as a denial of justice by republicans (and others). However, it appears for eirigi that Diplock convictions are now A-Ok.

  • iam totally against sundays parade.

    this sort of military glorification should not be happening in 2008.

    its the glorification of the slaughter of thousands of iraqi and afgan people.

  • I HOPE REPUBLICANS WILL MAKE A BIG TURNOUT IN BELFAST ON SUNDAY.
    ITS DISGUSTING THAT AN ARMY WHICH KILLED MANY PEOPLE OF THAT CITY ARE NOW BEING PARADED AROUND IT FOR KILLING MANY PEOPLE OF OTHER CITIES
    (IE: KABUL,BAGHDAD)

  • joeCanuck

    Meanwhile our beloved leader thinks that his wife should have equality rights to spew forth hated against some citizens.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/first-minister-peter-robinson-backs-wifes-view-that-gays-are-an-abomination-14023693.html

  • KD

    If Sinn Fein cannot see the dangerous precedent it has set by organizing a protest at this weekend’s Home Coming Parade for British troops, in Belfast city centre, then its leadership is truly out of touch and has set Northern Ireland back years in terms of equality and understanding for our diverse community.

    When Republicans gathers around the grave of hunger striker Bobby Sands next Easter to remember their dead and the sacrifices of their military wing, will they understand it if protestors gather near by, holding placards and shouting objections? Will Sinn Fein respect the right to protest then?

    By the way did you see Peter Robinson on Hearts & Minds last night – what an angry man. Kept talking about the Unionist people…like he’s only representing one core group…isn’t he supposed to be representing us all as First Minister. Not up to the job too bitter, too old, too angry. Get off the stage and take your bigoted wife with ya.

  • Ulster exile

    Ulster exile wtf?

    Many gangs can be googled on all sides.
    Deplorable acts that should be brought to book, sure! the sooner the better.

    dosent take away from my original point though!

  • Big Maggie

    cynic

    And 100 cases over 35 years is less than 3 a year on average. Amazingly good for an organisation this size working in this environment.

    Hmm, yes. Except we’re talking about 100 cases that ended in prosecution, not those that did not. How many were they? Anyone know?

    Given the BA’s reluctance to prosecute its own (see Iraq etc) is it likely that those 100 cases give a true picture of the number of ‘rotten apples’ in the regiment?

    Could it be comparable to the prosecution rate for rape in the UK? This stands at a disgraceful 5%.

  • fin

    Cynic, you seem to imply a 100% success rate in solving crime.
    Are you suggesting that if no-one is caught no crime has been committed? tree falling in the forest and all that.
    A quick glance suggests all the victims were nationalists, this fact is much more important than the number of offences committed and possibly those opposing the nationalist protests should offer an explanation as to why this event is not been held in a unionist/loyalist area and been treated like any other parade from one side of the community.

  • Dec

    not all the examples above are criminal, or resulted in convictions – and they include things like “drunkeness”, which is a bit of a stretch

    Actually, the stretch here is you treating “drunk with a loaded firearm/firing a machine gun/etc” as “drunkeness”. I’m also eager to hear which of the offences above you don’t class as criminal.

  • Big Maggie

    cynic

    And 100 cases over 35 years is less than 3 a year on average. Amazingly good for an organisation this size working in this environment.

    Hmm, yes. Except we’re talking about 100 cases that ended in prosecution, not those that did not. How many were they? Anyone know?

    Given the BA’s reluctance to prosecute its own (see Iraq etc) is it likely that those 100 cases give a true picture of the number of ‘rotten apples’ in the regiment?

    Could it be comparable to the prosecution rate for rape in the UK? This stands at a disgraceful 5%.

  • fair_deal

    fin

    “been treated like any other parade from one side of the community.”

    What like the republicans ones that have been held in the city centre (without a counter demo for a number of years)?

  • joeCanuck

    We’ve obviously a long ways to go before everyone fully accepts parity of esteem.
    It was foolish to hold this parade rather than a reception and equally, perhaps even more, foolish to hold a protest parade.

  • fair_deal

    I would also remind all republicans that if past convictions (or getting away with it) are the new basis for opposing something no one would have acceeded to the power-sharing structures.

  • deus beus

    young irelander!

    were british forces ever stationed / active in either kabul or Baghdad?

  • observer

    One hundred convictions of UDR members points up the transparancy of how the authorities dealt with these issues. No hiding place for bad apples! When can we expect some convictions for the McCartney murder?

    What about someone producing a list of the convictions of all of Sinn Fein’s elected repreentatives?

  • meh

    1. Testimony of Billy Thompson

    Derry 1971, Kathleen Thompson, 47

    On 6 November 1971, my mother, Kathleen Thompson, was shot and killed while standing in her back garden by soldier ‘D’ from the 2nd Battalion Royal Green Jackets. My mother left behind six children.
    The British army claimed that two shots were fired at them, however there was no evidence of this.
    No proper investigation was ever carried out by the RUC. The soldiers’ version of events went unchallenged because their statements were taken by the Royal Military Police.
    The inquest into her death delivered an open verdict. No soldiers were ever prosecuted with her killing.
    In 1980 my father received a cheque for £84.07. He tore it up.

    2. Testimony of Helen Deery

    Derry 1972, Manus Deery, 15

    On 19 May 1972 my brother, Manus Deery, was sharing a bag of chips with his friends when he was shot and killed by soldier ‘A’ from C Company, 1st Battalion, the Royal Welch Fusiliers. Manus had just received his first pay packet that evening.
    Manus and his friends were standing behind the Bogside Inn when the soldiers opened fire from the Derry walls. The soldiers claimed there was a gunman in the area at the time. Manus was struck by a bullet on the side of the head.
    There was no evidence of an RUC investigation. The soldiers’ version of events went unchallenged because their statements were taken by the Royal Military Police.
    No soldiers were ever prosecuted with his killing.

    3. Testimony of Michael English

    Derry 1981 and 1985, Gary and Charles English, 19 & 21

    My son Gary English, who was 19, died on Easter Sunday on 19 April 1981. Gary was struck by a British army landrover. The landrover was driven by Stephen Neville Buzzard under the command of Hugh Dalton Smith both of B Company, 2nd Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment.
    Gary was struck by the landrover and as he lay on the ground unconscious the vehicle was reversed over his body. Another young man, Jim Brown, was also killed by the same landrover.
    The soldiers were not charged with murder but rather a lesser offence of reckless driving, both were acquitted at trial.
    My son Charles then made his own decision. He joined the IRA and was killed on 6 August 1985 when a homemade rocket launcher exploded in his hands.

    4. Testimony of Emmett McConomy

    Derry 1982, Stephen McConomy, 11

    On 16 April 1982 my 11-year-old brother, Stephen McConomy, left home after his dinner. My mother never saw her son alive again.
    Stephen was among a group of youngsters aged between 9 and 12 hanging around a British army Saracen on Fahan Street. Some of the children were messing around throwing stones and trying to decorate the vehicle with a tricolour. While Stephen walked away, with his hands in his pockets, the hatch of the vehicle opened and a single plastic bullet was aimed and fired at Stephen. It hit him in the back of the head; he died three days later in hospital.
    By-standers, who attempted to help Stephen, were threatened at gunpoint by the soldiers.
    Lance Corporal Nigel Robert Englefield of the 2nd Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment fired the shot that killed Stephen. Also present in the Saracen were Private Kenneth Edward Fountain, Private Mark Gardner and Private Colin Prentice.
    No soldiers were ever prosecuted with his killing.

    5. Testimony of Margaret Nash

    Derry 1973, Thomas Friel, 22

    On the evening of 17 May 1973, my brother Thomas Friel, aged 22, left the Telstar Bar with his brother Seamus. Approximately six soldiers from B Company, 3rd Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment set upon them.
    The soldiers fired two rubber bullets at Thomas and Seamus from a close range. One of the bullets struck Thomas. As Seamus was helping Thomas to safety, the soldiers continued to fire rubber bullets at them. Thomas died in hospital on 22 May 1973.
    No proper investigation was carried out by the RUC. The soldiers’ version of events went unchallenged because their statements were taken by the Royal Military Police. No soldier was ever prosecuted with his death.

    6. Testimony of Peter McBride (Snr)

    Belfast 1992, Peter McBride

    On 4 September 1992 my son, Peter McBride, aged 18 and the father of two daughters, was stopped by a foot patrol of the Scots Guards, a regiment of the British Army. After an identity check and a thorough body search, Peter ran from the patrol and was chased by the soldiers. A witness heard the words “shoot the bastard”. Two soldiers, Guardsman Mark Wright and Jim Fisher shot at him, hitting him twice in the back. Peter stumbled towards the back entry behind his sister’s house, where he collapsed and died.
    The two soldiers were convicted of his murder, however, they remain in the British army and have recently served in Basra.
    General Mike Jackson and John Spellar sat on the Army Board that decided that the murder of Peter was not a serious enough offence to warrant dismissal.

    etc etc

  • Big Maggie

    observer

    One hundred convictions of UDR members points up the transparancy of how the authorities dealt with these issues. No hiding place for bad apples!

    You obviously missed my post at 1.31pm. Take a look at this page too.

    What about …

    …someone producing a list of the convictions of all of Sinn Fein’s elected repreentatives?

    They’re parading on Sunday as well are they? I’ll wear me lily so.

  • Big Maggie

    Thank you, meh.

    That list goes some way towards answering the questions I posed.

  • Big Maggie

    Thank you, meh.

    That list goes some way towards answering the questions I posed.

  • Mike

    Leaving aside any debate on the UDR…

    Obviously it suits éirígí, and also apparently Mark McGregor, to pretend that the existing battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment are effectively “the UDR”, when in reality they’re desended from the Royal Irish Rangers, and in turn its forebears such as the Royal Irish Rifles and the Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers.

  • Big Maggies masogonistic lover

    any one got a list of testimonys from the families of those killed by the terorists??? innnocents and hard wroking RUC/RIR/UDR/British army soldiers/contractors etc. who were trying to pay the bills!
    no!
    Parity of esteem?!?!?!? bigotry more like.

    Them ones have got one! i wont one too!!!!

  • riverlagen

    The reasons given by this group to protest are rather absurd. Imagine a scenario were a group of American families affected by the terror by Al Qaeda, would protest against American troops, because there may be some bad apples in the military that sympathized with Bin Laden and co (helping them with intelligence and such).

  • riverlagen

    The reasons given by this group to protest are rather absurd. Imagine a scenario were a group of American families affected by the terror by Al Qaeda, would protest against American troops, because there may be some bad apples in the military that sympathized with Bin Laden and co (helping them with intelligence and such).

  • Big Maggie

    Masogonistic? Are they Freemasons?

    Don’t we all love whataboutery. Listen, all you whatabouts, we’re dealing with one set of gentlemen here: the RIR once known as the UDR. They are marching on Sunday.

    They’re soldiers of a disgraced regiment. But in the end they’re soldiers. Soldiers of every nation do bad things so we need not point the finger at just this regiment. Soldiers are trained to be violent, to do things most sane people would regard as evil. So it’s not so surprising when these men do despicable things is it?

    But the point is, and it’s one that every disingenuous eejit in NI wishes to obfuscate: the planned parade on Sunday is grossly insensitive to the relatives of victims of UDR/RIR brutality. It really is that simple. No amount of whataboutery will change that. It’s high time a lot of people in NI grew the fuck up.

  • Gregory Carlin

    “While this is certainly a disgraceful list, it should be noted that 40,000 people served in the UDR between 1970 and 1992 alone.”

    My list of security forces convicted of terrorism, when I was doing it has circa 290 or something ten years go. It was the tip of the iceberg as I recall.

    Gregory

  • Big Maggies masogonistic lover

    hmm!
    Maggie! i think you need to read that last post of yours regarding “whataboutery” and take note yourself.

    What about the families of those who have fought for your right to make such statments being able to welcome there loved ones home in a peaceful, non-secterian March!!!

    If they had left the flypast in, sure wouldnt have been a grand day out for the kids on half term!

  • Alan

    This discussion has much more heat than light. Fact is republicans hate britishness in all its forms (apart from financial) and unionists believe in and support britishness. It will always be so. What might eventually be achieved is a kind of reluctant acceptance that both sides have rights, but that does not include the right to prevent either side expressing their culture, as they see it. To berate the Royal Irish Regiment and fail to berate the antics of republican paramilitaries shows the kind of hypocrocy that is embarrasing. But will that stop it….of course not…

  • Reader

    Mig Maggie: Don’t we all love whataboutery.
    Well, comparing the various RIR regiments to the Provos is pointless. I would wish the RIR to be held to higher standards than that
    Instead, lets compare the RIR with the GAA. Then we can know whether the GAA should be welcome in Belfast too. (Mark – where’s Éirígi’s GAA list?)

  • eranu

    theres something ive always wondered. when republicans pull together all sorts of different things like plastic bullets, the RUC, the UDR and so on, to put together a reason to explain why they are against something. do you genuinely believe that they are linked to what you’re trying to attack, like a home coming parade for troops coming back from war? (which is pretty standard in any country)
    usually what is being listed has nothing to do with what is being objected to. its just a list of things on the ‘hate list’. can you tell me do republicans actually believe what they are saying or do they, in the back of their minds, know its just a line of bad sounding things used to attack ‘the enemy’ ?

  • Big Maggie

    Maggie! i think you need to read that last post of yours regarding “whataboutery” and take note yourself.

    What about..

    LOL

  • big maggies masogonistic lover

    Ouch that hurts….satirically!!!!

  • Dec

    I would also remind all republicans that if past convictions (or getting away with it) are the new basis for opposing something no one would have acceeded to the power-sharing structures.

    And miss out on having two First Ministers with criminal convictions?

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Why are some poster’s names in red and some ‘greyed out’?

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    Great irony haters accusing Republicans of hating whilst ignoring the folly of forcing through a military march. Anyhow, by most of the responses on here from Unionists it seems that offences commiteed by the legal and illegal groups commisioned and controlled by the British government in Ireland don’t realy count. Or is it the calibre of the victims that is the crux here(rhetorical) because as we all know that those supposed to be upholding the law are allowed to get away with murder. The facts and figures that we know about prove this, and aye they are surely the tip of the iceberg.

    It should be pointed out that especially in the seventies it was almost customary for home grown Irish/British soldiers to renounce their legal militia tags as soon as they were arrested, or sometimes even word of their imminent arrest for activities carried out for illegal British militia’s. So far from proving what a good job the security forces were doing in catching their own as some idiotic or naive wee souls seem to think. The cover-ups weren’t really that good, as anyone who is interested in scratching the surface will know.

  • Big Maggie

    Pancho’s Horse

    The greyed out ones have no link to an email address, whether real of fictitious….

  • Pancho’s Horse

    thank you Maggie. I thought that the admin staff insisted on checkable addresses and why has it just started recently? are these the sock puppets, trolls and men of straw?

  • eranu

    “forcing through a military march.”

    PE, thats a good example of what i was on about. do you actually believe that something is being forced through somewhere? do you believe there are residents that live in the city hall and they are all rage’n? the increasingly dramatic language used in the last few days is getting further and further away from reality. its like republicans are throwing everything they can think of and the kitchen sink. its insane!

  • Mike

    Big Maggie –

    “Don’t we all love whataboutery. Listen, all you whatabouts, we’re dealing with one set of gentlemen here: the RIR once known as the UDR.”

    No, they weren’t.

    The RIR Home Service battalions were once known as the UDR.

    The existing RIR batallions were previously known as the Royal Irish Rangers.

    But why bother getting your facts right, eh?

  • Mike

    As eranu has said, this statement of PE’s is also nonsensical:

    Great irony haters accusing Republicans of hating whilst ignoring the folly of forcing through a military march.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    You are right Mike, throw in a comma after irony wullye.

    The march is folly eranu, and anyone with any sense knows it. Whilst a democratic vote ensures that it is legitimate, it is being forced on a population who in the main find the triumphalis abhorrant.

    Any comments on the legal and illegal forces shenanigans? Like murder?

  • Big Maggie

    Mike

    Thanks for the above. I stand corrected. That said, both ‘UDR’ and ‘RIR’ figure in eirigi’s list at the top of the page. Does this make them both culpable? Maybe. It’s still bloody insensitive to march on Sunday no matter how you look at it.

  • frank

    I wonder will the loyalist parades from East Belfast and the Shankill now be called off.

    I think they are the most likely to end up in violence and damage.

  • fair_deal

    Dec

    “And miss out on having two First Ministers with criminal convictions?”

    What part of “no one” did you not understand?

  • cynic

    “Could it be comparable to the prosecution rate for rape in the UK”

    Dear Maggie

    ….or it could depend on the phases of the moon or any other figure you want to make up to make it look bad.

    The point was made by others ‘look how awful this is’ and I was pointing out hat it actually shows how seriously any wrongdoing was taken and dealt with.

    And by the way if you look at the cases cited many are serious and disgraceful but others are padding …..e.g. soldiers who were found off duty drunk while in possession of a personal protection weapon.

    Serious enough but hardly earth shattering or evidence of terrorist intent!

    The problem is that Eigri and their coat-trailers have yet again shot themselves in the foot. By highlighting how many were dealt with they showed that the authorities took any problems seriously. The problem is that they are so blinkered they only see one side of the picture.

  • Hindsight

    I Bet with hindsight Bobby would gladly have feasted on Slab’s faeces, after all Slab feasted on the lack of Bobbys’ albeit in a financial sense.

    ps meh “My son Charles then made his own decision. He joined the IRA and was killed on 6 August 1985 when a homemade rocket launcher exploded in his hands.”

    some might look at this as a PHAIL +++ but how do we not know he was truly successful in making a sucicide device ???, but to be fair, and i quote “a homemade rocket launcher exploded in his left nipple”

    “Peter stumbled towards the back entry behind his sister”

    Ahhh a back door merchant :S nuff said

    “It hit him in the back of the head; he died three days later in hospital”

    Could have been worse….could have been a 1:1000000 injury if the bullet had hit his brain causing brain injury/immediate death.

    etc etc

    I could go on….but who gives a fuck

    Advice to all losers’ on this board…….MOVE ON & GET A LIFE ….pls 😀

    You celebrate your “heroes” well celebrate the real heroes :DDDDDDDDDD

  • Dec

    FD

    You should really try and get another catch-phrase. Your convictions remark was addressed to and aimed at Republicans. Mind you, I can forgive you being a bit ‘hazy’ about DUP wrongdoing for everytime a member of the party is in the shit (Iris, Baby Doc) you’re off washing your tights.

  • Big Maggie

    cynic

    “Could it be comparable to the prosecution rate for rape in the UK”

    Dear Maggie

    ….or it could depend on the phases of the moon or any other figure you want to make up to make it look bad.

    What can I say? Somebody has FINALLY picked up on my analogy. I just wish it was somebody who could have taken it a little more seriously.

    Did you read meh’s post at 2.24pm? Do. It should give you an idea other than the ‘lunatic’ one you suggest—but I know it won’t.

  • fair_deal

    Dec

    “You should really try and get another catch-phrase. Your convictions remark was addressed to and aimed at Republicans.”

    No it works fine. Maybe you should bother to read a comment not the one you wish had been said. I chose my words with care hence ‘no one’ and not ‘Unionists’.

    The comment was referred to republicans as it was republicans on this thread who raised past convictions as a barrier not Unionists (on this occasion at least).

    “I can forgive you being a bit ‘hazy’ about DUP wrongdoing for everytime a member of the party is in the shit (Iris, Baby Doc) you’re off washing your tights.”

    LOL. Unfortunately for that claim to stand up you have to ignore the threads were I have criticised the DUP ie the St Andrew’s thread, the O’Loan report threads, the Dromore threads etc. Although you probably applied the same depth of analysis to those threads as you did with the comment on this thread and the other one yesterday.

    “you’re off washing your tights.”

    I saw you mention something about ignoring the Iris stuff once before. Fortunately I was enjoying New England with my wife when she was digging her media hole(s)/making multiple Nolan appearances.

  • Gregory Carlin

    “The point was made by others ‘look how awful this is’ and I was pointing out hat it actually shows how seriously any wrongdoing was taken and dealt with.”

    Dear Cynic

    It is a bit like my teacher thing, the number of nonces is closer to 12,000 than the stuff bumped to LIST 99 or prosecuted.

    Who did the last 13.7 million child pornography transactions ( peer to peer) the FBI detected in Britain, itself the tip of the iceberg?

    Never do a bad apple theory, the ‘bad apple’ theory in Mississippi means the jail guards are allowed to have sex with kids and women as part of the package!

    So, I’m sorry, that is substantially fantasy, the British were recruiting death squads directly into a domestic militia.

    The bomb and spray job on the Rock Bar Keady, using uniformed RUC and patrol cars, radios, non-custodial sentencing via a LCJ!

    It was like Kenya, or Cyprus.

    Gregory

  • pfhl

    Instead, lets compare the RIR with the GAA.

    Posted by Reader on Oct 31, 2008 @ 03:35 PM

    Why would you try? One is a regiment of the british army and one is a sporting organisation. I suppose you could compare the FA to the GAA in some way but the RIR would be a stretch. As Mr Cochrane migth say”,that does not make sense.”

  • éirígi’s

    éirígi’s

    Im From Newry and as far as éirígi’s is concerned Ive met harder Turds.

    Im a proud Loyalist from Newry Town, and I’d love to know how does éirígi plan to kill me ????? I can be sure the scum dont have the balls to face me.

    No surrender…from Newry Town !!!!!!!!!!!

  • what

    “Why would you try? One is a regiment of the british army and one is a sporting organisation.”

    I never thought the British Army were a sporting org. ???????

    I know the GAA are a bunch of sectarian scum/….but thats another story…………

  • Ri Na Deise

    I’ll be sure to inform my school and club mates from Mount Sion CLG in Waterford they are sectarian murdering scum because some anonymous internet weirdo said so.

  • latcheeco

    Sunday’s buck stupidity might be a stark example to use to remind HMG what happens in a vacuum. Jaysus you couldn’t write this script if you wanted unionists to act against their own interests.

  • Reader

    phfl: Why would you try? One is a regiment of the british army and one is a sporting organisation.
    But Éirígi has produced a list which they want to have taken seriously. Because they can find 100 members of a very large organization who have committed crimes, they want to condemn all of the rest. So – is that a good working principle? Test their logic by applying it to a separate case that pulls quite different emotional triggers. Is the logic still compelling? Then turn it round again – the Orange Order isn’t a regiment of the British Army, but would you be tempted to accept Éirígi’s logic for the OO?
    Feel those double standards bubbling away in your soul!
    Mark McGregor captioned his post “100 reasons to protest?”. So do you suppose there could also be 100 reasons to protest about the GAA, if only Éirígi would compile the list?

  • Observer

    This crap is all very well….BUT WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A CONVICTION FOR THE MCCARTNEY MURDER?????????

  • steve

    when you find out who’s guilty obviously

  • The Raven

    When might that be, Steve…?

  • steve

    I don’t know raven, when will you get a competent police force?

  • oh noes

    anyone know why admin is a dickhead

    and what is a red card supposed to do ?

  • riverlagen

    As Sinn Fein are going to protest against the RIR, (because members were associates of Loyalist paramilitaries), does that mean SF are going to renew their campaign of protesting against Orange Order marches and now what is their view of Remembrance day?

  • Rory

    There are three simple and good reasons why it is proper to protest against this parade of military triumphalism; the first is the regiment’s involvement in the invasion of a country that was not in conflict with either Britain or its allies; the second flows from British assurances that were given that the British Army would be withdrawn from the streets to barracks and the third, which exacerbates the breach of the second, is the vile history of this particular regiment and its murderous campaign against the nationalist community.

    This homecoming parade should never have merited serious consideration and the fault lies with the British government for taking their eye off the ball and ignoring the serious unease of the nationalist community much as they did for the 50 years of unionist misrule.

  • Gregory Carlin

    “I never thought the British Army were a sporting org. ???????”

    Maxim sponsored the British cricket tour to Tibet in 1903 and 1904.

    ‘Facing the vanguard of Macdonald’s army and blocking the road was a 3,000 strong Tibetan force armed with primitive matchlock muskets’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet#The_Battle_of_Guru

    A bit of a ball tampering scandal.

    ‘He was hailed as the ‘Hero of Mboto Gorge’ in 1892, where he had faced “ten thousand Watutsi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and dry guava halves”. ‘

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Blackadder

    Is it cricket, I was taught that in school, one of the most important questions, no need for French philosophical mumbo jumbo

  • Weespot

    A wee song for the troops inspired by Eire Og

    Welcome Home British Soldiers Welcome Home
    Were glad you RIR boys are our own
    For 800 years they have protected us without fear
    And they will protect us for 800 more.

    If you stay British Soldiers,If you stay
    You need not worry about the IRA
    for they have got civil rights in derry
    thanks to Stormont just ask Martin & Gerry
    British Rule in this part of the Union is the way it will be.

    Yes Your English Your Irish & Your Scottish
    Most of all its British that your proud to be
    So hoist the Union Jack your city welcomes you back
    Welcome Home British Soldiers Welcome Home.

  • Rory

    Well…I suppose artistic endeavour is always to be applauded. Aren’t there grants available for this kind of thing?

    Certainly you do seem to be in need of quite a bit of assistance.

  • Gregory Carlin

    “Aren’t there grants available for this kind of thing?”

    Blackadder more or less got it in one.

    The Taliban might be appallingly backward, but there is the rugged near stone-age about them, they don’t get homecomings, they are home

    I reflect on how easy it was for the Brits to forget about Russian menaces to Northern India, Central Asia, the very moment a real threat by way of the Bolsheviks emerged.

    War is often a question of doing the doable, or doing something convenient,

    of course the principles of Bolshevism were as abhorrent to the Tibetan character as Coca Cola is to the Taliban.

    Gregory

  • H Brennan

    Who Framed Colin Wallace? – Paul Foot. The definititive book on dirty tricks perpetrated by the Brits in Northern Ireland. Is it any wonder our youth today are anarchaic in their responses to authority. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have always appalled me for what they are but now, methinks, I have to rethink the resourcefulness of these brave young men that outwitted the British Establishment. No! I have no political affliliations whatsoever but more needs to be in the public domain about the corrupt six counties!!

  • Shirley McGuffin

    The Brigadier used to be good in an Phoblacht slagging these guys off. Has he risen again, like Jesus?

  • Reader

    Rory: the second flows from British assurances that were given that the British Army would be withdrawn from the streets to barracks…
    Reference? There was probably something about the end of operation Banner, ceasefires, etc. But it’s crazy to expect the garrison battalions to be cooped up in barracks. Would you allow the spouses and children to be allowed offsite to do the shopping and go to school, but keep the soldiers locked up?

  • Peter Brown

    If there are 100 reasons for Republicans to protest I can give you 636 why Sinn Fein has no right to protest about the killing of civilans and 1771 why they have no right to protest about illegal wars – they can all be found in Lost Lives and more importantly cemeteries the length and breadth of the British isles….