One of the greatest challenges is to end racism..

Despite the fact that team Slugger aren’t always the Pope’s greatest fan, the pontiff should surely be praised for what was in papal language, a forthright denunciation of the racism now emerging from the government of Silvio Berlusconi. In spite of denials from the Italian political and media boss’s camp, media coverage confirms that he didn’t miss and hit the wall. Whatever intellectual strait jacket he may otherwise be wearing, Benedict’s stance on a scourge that threatens to destabilise the already fragile Italian polity contrasts with the evasive behaviour, even according to the most favourable interpretations , of that former legate to Benedict’s native land, Eugenio Pacelli. A pity that Benedict. who has also been careful to give a pastoral embrace to other religions may spoil it all by making Pius X11 a saint. The ways of the Vatican are truly unfathomable.

  • Over Here

    Why does “team Slugger” not like His Holiness? Is it the person himself, His Office, the Catholic Church or religion in general?

    The ways of the Vatican are truly unfathomable. I once heard someone say the Vatican doesn’t think in terms of years but thinks in terms of centuries

  • McKelvey

    How is it that a New York Times article can seriously be considered one of the “most favorable interpretations” of Pope Pius XII’s behavior?

  • Leo

    Not the Hitler’s Pope crap again.

    First of all, Mit Brennender Sorge, one of the very few Papal Encyclicals not written in Latin, was authored by the then Pope Pius XI, and also by the then Cardinal Pacelli. This document criticised Nazism and also stated the anti-semitism was unchristian.

    Also, as demonstrated by the Dutch bishops, actively standing up the Nazis resulted in punitive sanctions. Hence the quiet approach.

    And strangely enough, the NYT article doesn’t refer to the NYT opinion column in the 1940s (I think it was Christmas 1941) that said that Pius XII was one of the few voices of reason in Europe.

  • Big Maggie

    Brian

    “Benedict. who has also been careful to give a pastoral embrace to other religions may spoil it all by making Pius X11 a saint.”

    Huh? I thought it was “God” wot made folks saints. But what do I know about how things work in Ju-Ju Land the Vatican?

  • Leo

    Big Maggie,

    you are correct in stating that God makes saints. Anyone who gets to heaven is classed as a saint. However, the Church is pretty cagey in officially declaring that so-and-so has made it to heaven.

    So there’s a lot of paperwork that needs to be filled out first – the main one is that there needs to be 2 officially recognised miracles attributed to the intervention of the person in question.

    Once all the hoops have been jumped through, the church officially canonises the person. It is this lengthy process that Brian is referring to in his entry.

  • Big Maggie

    Leo

    “Anyone who gets to heaven is classed as a saint.”

    You sure about that? I’d understood that all good folks got to heaven. Must be pretty full by now! But how does this square with saints created by the church? Are they higher rankers?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    [b]RACISM BAD, SLAVERY GOOD![/b]…..Where’s the logic?

    http://churchslavery.blogspot.com/

    – The local Council at Gangra in Asia Minor, in 362 AD, excommunicated anyone telling a slave to despise his master or withdraw from his service. The same decree is repeated in a Council under Pope Martin I in 650 AD!

    – The ninth Council of Toledo in 655 AD imposed slavery on the children of priests.

    – The Synod of Melfi under Pope Urban II in 1089 imposed slavery on the wives of priests.

    The Third Lateran Council of 1179 imposed slavery on those helping the Saracens.

    [u]Pope Gregory IX in 1226 declared:[/u]

    [i]’Therefore we declare that such persons should be cut off from the communion of the church and be excommunicated for their wickedness, that catholic princes and civil magistrates should confiscate their possessions, and that if they are captured [b]they should become the slaves of their captors.'[/i][/b]

    [u]His Holiness, Pope Nicholas V, on January 8, 1455 said:[/u]

    [i]’….subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and [b]to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery,…'[/b][/i]

    [u]June 20, 1866, the Holy Office issued a statement:[/u]

    [i]’Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contrary to the natural and divine law, and there can be several just titles of slavery and these are referred to by approved theologians and commentators of the sacred canons…. It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given.'[/i]

  • Leo

    Big Maggie,

    if you accept that God is omnipotent, then making sure that Heaven is big enough for all the good people shouldn’t be too difficult for Him. 🙂

    The canonisation process isn’t about classifying saints as being better than ordinary folk who get through the pearly gates. It’s kind of like being a footballer – whether you play in the World Cup, or a kickaround in the field behind your house, you’re still a footballer. But playing as a professional makes you more of an official footballer.

  • Big Maggie

    Ulsters

    I believe the world has moved on somewhat since 1866. Even the Vatican. Hell, even Ulster has grown up… sort of.

    Leo

    That’s clear now… Not. But thanks anyway.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    too true Maggie, but we shouldn’t forget who kept racism alive for 2 millenium.


  • THE ROMAN POPE HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS AN AGENT OF PIAPS!!!!!

  • Big Maggie

    Ulsters

    “but we shouldn’t forget who kept racism alive for 2 millenium.”

    Indeed. Those goddamned Greeks had a lot to answer for.

  • Rory

    “…we shouldn’t forget who kept racism alive for 2 millenium”

    It’s even worse than that, Ulster’s my Homeland. I was raised a Catholic and I have been keeping myself alive for over 60 years and hardly anybody likes me. I’m just a selfish papist bastard obviously as if I wasn’t raised a Catholic I would probably commit suicide. But then I wouldn’t get into heaven so’s I can annoy the divil outa you when you get up there.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Don’t get me wrong Rory, I’m not against the ordinary Catholic, never have been, it’s the system of man-made power at the top which I deteste. I don’t like forced religion (Catholic or Protestant), as if infant baptisms or christenings are worth anything spiritually. Buffoonery!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    what is Piaps RALPH ?

  • what is Piaps RALPH ?

  • Big Maggie

    Way-hey!

    As an atheist lass I just LOVE when you religionistas cross swords! It’s almost sensual.

    Thanks for the laughs, Rory and Ulster.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    why would you as an atheist love the sensual feeling and laugh at us? We wouldn’t think that of atheists.

  • Big Maggie

    Ulsters

    I laugh at you because you’re ridiculous. We atheists engage our God-given brains and therefore are not ridiculous, so you can’t laugh at us.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    That site you linked Ralph is total lunacy. It’s like the Vatican without balls.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i] We atheists engage our God-given brains and therefore are not ridiculous, so you can’t laugh at us.”[/i]

    An atheists having trouble identifying their maker?

  • Pete Baker

    I feel obliged to point out that whilst I have been critical of Emperor Pope Benedict I do not speak on behalf of anyone else on “team Slugger”.

    No to group-think! ;op

  • Big Maggie

    Ulsters

    “An atheists having trouble identifying their maker?”

    See, that’s what I mean: you religionistas make no sense at all. Can you rephrase that please in plain English?

  • Rory

    Big Maggie,

    ME a religionista? It would be news to the pope and my police file would need some heavy editing for me to get away with that.

    But thanks for the reference, Maggie, I think I’ll print it out and pin it to my shroud as a sort of Pascal’s Wager guarantee just in case.

  • It’s like the Vatican without balls.

    IT’S NOTHING LIKE THE VATICAN, AS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYSTEM REFUSES TO TEACH THE BLESSED HOPE, THE COMING RAPTURE, AND DOES NOT PUT MARK 16:18 INTO PRACTICE!!!!!!!!

    AND AMERICANPHILE DOES NOT TAKE ORDERS FROM PIAPS!!!!!!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]See, that’s what I mean: you religionistas make no sense at all. Can you rephrase that please in plain English?”[/i]

    Big Maggie, you were the one that said you had God-given brains, hardly something an atheist would believe?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]IT’S NOTHING LIKE THE VATICAN, AS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYSTEM REFUSES TO TEACH THE BLESSED HOPE, THE COMING RAPTURE, AND DOES NOT PUT MARK 16:18 INTO PRACTICE!!!!!!!!”[/i]

    OK, calm down, calm dowm.

    It’s like the Vatican because it’s able to spout nonscence, the difference is the Vatican has the balls to claim they speak from God.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    It says in 2Thes.2 verse 3+4:

    [i]”Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”[/i]

    [u]What Christian body or person claims to speak from God?[/u]

    In 1Tim.4 v 1-3 it says:
    [i]”Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
    [3] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.”[/i]

    [u]what Christian body forbids marriage and the eating of meats?[/u]

  • THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NUN-SENSE ABOUT AMERICAPHILE!!!!!

    NOPE, NUN WHATSOEVER!!!!!!

    BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Just imagine what it was like decades and centuries ago when religious organisations would use the paranoia in society to make Canon Law.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I would say that Ireland will never be free until it’s rid of Rome.

    Now there’s something achievable.

  • I would say that Ireland will never be free until it’s rid of Rome.

    SO TRUE!!!! SO TRUE!!!! SO TRUE!!!!!

    THERE IS SO MUCH DARKNESS IN THAT LAND!!!

    WE MUST BRING THE LIGHT!!!!!!

    SO TOO, ONLY WHEN THAT ISLAND IS FREE THE INVISIBLE BUT IRON HAND OF PIAPS CAN THE LOST FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF THE HORRORS OF FENIANISM, DESPOTISM, FIANNA FAIL, ALCOHOLISM, SUPERSTITION, THE AOH, BIGOTRY, IDOLATRY, THE WOLFE TONES, IGNORANCE, GURU MAGGOTS, PATTERNS, GLUE-SNIFFING, ENYA (NEW AGE), INCEST, THE INQUISTION, BUCKFAST, JESUITS, DOMESTIC ABUSE, TERRORISM AND THE MASS!!!!!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    RALPH, any good ideas other than those buisinesss you mentioned?

  • HeadTheBall

    Any chance you guys could get back on topic?

    As an old Shankill prod I am hardly a cheer-leader for His Holiness but it seems to me that, in this case (about Berlusconi, et al), he is right on the money.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘but we shouldn’t forget who kept racism alive for 2 millenium.’

    Never mind the fact some of the examples you cited UMH pre-date the reformation which means the ancestors of your beloved but ultimately failed reformation were responsible too. It seems you think the protestant religion starts with Luther/Calvin etc…..not so dear boy, not so.

    ‘I would say that Ireland will never be free until it’s rid of Rome.’

    There was never rule from Rome, save that which the colonial bigots thought they could use to advocte their own little sectarian Rhodesia. Never mind the irony that Catholicism was in Ireland long before the reforamtion attempted but failed to change Ireland.

  • HeadTheBall

    RS,

    “There was never rule from Rome”

    Wouldn’t you agree that de Valera, et al had a pretty good go at turning the place into a papal fiefdom for a while?

    “you think the protestant religion starts with Luther/Calvin etc”

    So, with whom did it start, then? Jan Hus?

    “Catholicism was in Ireland long before the reforamtion”

    Do you mean Roman Catholicism? If so that’s an anachronism, before the Reformation. Do you mean Christian Catholicism? If so that’s
    a tautology since there was only one kind (pace the Orthodox).

  • Y

    UMH,
    “…Don’t get me wrong Rory, I’m not against the ordinary Catholic, never have been, it’s the system of man-made power at the top which I deteste.”

    Maybe not, but what Catholic endorses the corruption of the Vatican throughout the ages? Very few. I somehow feel that you would be a monarchist/unionist in favor of the English Queen and for the continuation of the union. Can you see how your position might be seen as hypocritical? The Royal family throughout the centuries has been a system of man-made power at the top, whereas the political elite have emanated from that very class to become bourgeoisie. Surely this must be on a par with Britain and her Empire building. All hierarchy systems seem to follow the same pattern, be it religious, royal or political.

  • abucs
  • Big Maggie

    Ulsters

    “Big Maggie, you were the one that said you had God-given brains, hardly something an atheist would believe”

    There’s your problem in NI right there. You Ulster men take yourselves and others way too seriously. You should get out more.

    Rory

    My sincere apologies for confusing you with a religionista!

    *Mags flogs naked back with opus dei whip as penance*

  • my earlier comment was removed

    He looks like a child abuser tbh ??????