Less Orangefest more Hatefest as Lisburn UUP Mayor fans flames of hate in Stoneyford

No doubt aware of the ongoing campaign of sectarian violence and intimidation in the County Antrim village of Stoneyford- and conscious also of those linked with the attacks, Lisburn’s UUP Mayor, Ronnie Crawford, decided to accept an invite by a local loyalist organisation, Stoneyford Jubilee Committee (Chairperson Mark Harbinson) to ignite the local beacon which had a poster of Sinn Fein MLA Paul Butler atop it to the approving roar of the 300 or so loyalists in attendance.

After Stoneyford loyalist, Mark Harbinson, had rejected money offered by unionist-dominated Lisburn Borough Council on the grounds that it wasn’t enough (in spite of the fact that his organisation should not have even been offered the money according, firstly, to a recommendation by Council officers and, secondly, due to the fact that they hadn’t even appealed their funding rejection when the money was offered) in steps the Mayor to find an alternative ‘funder’ for the Stoneyford beacon, earning the praise of the recently quite active loyalist fraternity in the troubled village.

Mr. Crawford’s weak response when asked why he agreed to light the beacon was “there were 300 people standing there…I wasn’t going to take that thing down.” The story is carried in today’s Andersonstown News (not yet online.)

  • Garibaldy

    Unacceptable behaviour.

  • Mac

    Disgraceful. Turgon, Willowfield and Concerned Loyalist, where’s your disapproval?

  • POL

    lisburn a city of equals hmmm. And then again not.

  • POL

    wonder will ronnie be able to look Paul Butler in the eye at the next council meeting…I somehow doubt it.He should resign but i`m sure he will get the backing of his erstwhile cronies. Vomit bucket of a council anyhow.

  • ulsterscot

    Is that the same dedicated exponent of human rights and equality who was convicted of murder of a policeman/father/husband in Glengormley ? – shot in back from darkened entry if memory proves right.Perhaps the residents of Stoneyford should be naming streets after him rather than the indignity of destroying his photographic image – I am sure the dead policeman would have preferred that fate.

  • RepublicanStones

    Whats an ulsterscot?

  • picador

    Sweet home Alabama …

  • percy

    If Hate Crime and its associated activities like the one mentioned above were prosecuted, NI would become one large prison for the OO, loyalists and their politicians.
    Sick, sick, sick.

  • kensei

    Mr. Crawford’s weak response when asked why he agreed to light the beacon was “there were 300 people standing there…I wasn’t going to take that thing down.”

    Few are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change.

    Ted Kennedy, eulogy to RFK

  • ulsterscot

    Burning a photograph of a convicted unrepentant murderer is not a hate crime indeed it is a normal reaction from normal people sickened by revisionists.By electing Paul Butler thousands of nationalist voters in Lagan Valley sent the clearest possible signal to their unionist neighbours about their views on a cowardly murder of a totally innocent father/husband/son who shared a different perspective than their own.Lest we forget that murdering the innocent in cold blood is real hate at work and refusing to repent for it is pure evil.

  • Earnan

    Wow. Do these people ever want to live in the 21st century? Maybe they, like some diehard republicans, miss the troubles.

    And of course, no prosecutions for the earlier incidents. A great province…no wonder Catholics still don’t trust the police

  • Garibaldy

    No, Ulsterscot it’s not really a normal reaction. It is arguably a hate crime, and was certainly an action born of the same sectarian hatred that motivated a lot of the terrorist violence. Certainly if more people were charged for sectarian speech and actions we might see less of both.

  • Earnan

    The man he shot was part of a sectarian police force who fed intelligence to murder gangs, looked the other way on loyalist hate crimes, or even actively took part in the murder gangs. Some would say that makes him a legitimate target.

  • Hogan

    I wouldn’t get too exercised over the actions of councillors. This just confirms my opinion that most of them haven’t the brains they were born with.

    Until the lumpenproletariat decide they want to be represented by some with both brains and morals let them watch the pantomime they have created.

  • observer

    lisburn a city of equals hmmm. And then again not.

    Posted by POL on Jul 14, 2008 @ 06:05 PM

    Of course there isnt equality- terrorist parties like SF cant be equated with ordinary law abiding citizens

  • ulsterscot

    Garibaldy

    The real act of hate was perpetrated by my Paul Butler – in murdering the innocent – he is not a hate crime victim but a legitimate target for normal human repulsion.ie the same way burning the image of Hitler is displaying hatred of facism and their modus operandi – or would you classify that as a hate crime too?

    As usual a few posts on Slugger totally confirm to me that the least attracive nation on the planet to offer any form of alegiance to is Gaelic Ireland.Hence I will always reputiate that sense of nationhood in favour of the Dalraidan Scots(Ulster Scots) the original(but now returned) inhabinants before Celtic colonisation.Its a pity “real history” wasn’t taught in schools – the plantation was in fact the re plantation

  • Garibaldy

    Ulsterscot,

    What Butler did was wrong. However, if people with links to organisations that committed many murders of other innocents burn his image what does that mean? How is it not sprung from sectarian hatred? There have been SDLP posters burnt on bonfires. Is that a hate crime?

  • observer

    There have been SDLP posters burnt on bonfires. Is that a hate crime?

    Posted by Garibaldy on Jul 14, 2008 @ 07:07 PM

    Ths SDLP have consistently supported terrorist SF so NO

  • picador

    26 January 1974
    Rodgers, John (50) Protestant
    Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)

    Shot while on Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) foot patrol, Antrim Road, Glengormley, near Belfast, County Antrim.

    A quick search of Sutton’s Index of Deaths at CAIN came up with the above as the only candidate. It happened a long time ago but somebody somewhere is probably still grieving.

    Here is a person who became a statistic more recently. What can you tell us of this one ulsterscot? If you’re not sure I suggest you try chatting to your mates up in Stoneyford, the ones who once were known as the Orange Vounteers.

    Ciaran Heffron (22), a Catholic civilian, was killed by Loyalist paramilitaries as he walked through the village of Crumlin, County Antrim.

  • picador

    Hence I will always reputiate that sense of nationhood in favour of the Dalraidan Scots(Ulster Scots) the original(but now returned) inhabinants before Celtic colonisation.Its a pity “real history” wasn’t taught in schools – the plantation was in fact the re plantation

    Nutter alert!

  • ulsterscot

    picador

    No problem in totally condemning the murder of the innocent Ciaran Heffron and in stating his killers repulse me.

    I await your similar condemnation of murder of John Rodgers( a totally decent man – you see I knew him,not just a statistic)and likewise of the murderer (now self proclaimed human rights/equality advocate).I assume his human rights and his equality are his interest not that of his victim.Butler is a true sicko not because of his religion,politics etc but because of his actions past and present,therefore the issue is not that of sectarism.It is so sad to see thousands of the nationlist electorate signal their unionist neighbours in such a way – ie its says a lot about the the hatred in the DNA fabric of that electorate that a murderer of a protestant/unionist/British policeman is their chosen representative.Thats were the REAL hatred lies not just in their souls but in their voting actions

  • Don’t let us descend into whataboutery here.
    The fact is that the man is a public representative, the first among equals, in the citizenry of Lisburn and he could have, and very definitely should have removed himself from the situation by pointing out that he had made a mistake and what was being asked of him was not in keeping with what he hoped for the ‘New’ Ulster in Lisburn.
    It takes guts to be a politician and he demonstrated a lack of them by staying and being a part of the whole thing.
    The UUP and he together should hang respective heads in shame.
    This was political and moral cowardice of the highest magnitude.
    The UUP should be worried for if this is the mettle of it’s public representatives then they are doomed to oblivion when the opportunities to regain the initiative among Unionist voters is emerging.
    But some people are just not up to the new challenges it seems.

  • CS Parnell

    Of course, what these thick as pigsh*t councillors don’t understand is that this bigotry is what is sustaining the whole SF MOPE machine.

    If they could bring themselves to treating the other 45% of the population like human beings they may find life in the North of Ireland rather more to their pleasing.

    But, no. Keep fanning the hate boys – if you’ve been doing it since 1650 no need to change now, eh?

  • picador

    ulsterscot,

    The hatred in Stoneyford was going on long before Butler was elected (just follow the links above to see). The Butler thing is an insidious attempt on your part to make the victims of sectarian persecution into the agressors. Butler appears to be the only person who is prepared to speak out on behalf of those who are being persecuted and he does so at some considerable personal risk to himself as witnessed on the recent Spotlight programme. What he may have been involved in thirty odd years ago bears little relevance to what is happening in Stoneyford in 2008.

    You talk about hatred yet you appear to be an incredibly bitter person yourself.

  • Garibaldy

    Ulsterscot,

    We got an answer on the SDLP poster question from Observer but not from yourself.

    It is quite clear that there has been an ongoing campaign of sectarian victimisation in Stoneyford, and that certain elected councillors have at the very least failed to distance themselves sufficiently from these events.

    It was more than highly irresponsible of the Mayor to refuse to give credence to this event. It was wrong.

  • the dowie

    Ronnie Crawford is a hate filled cunt. Paul Butler is a hate filled cunt. Next.

  • joeCanuck

    the hatred in the DNA fabric of that electorate

    What a disgusting thing to say. Would you say the same thing about the people who voted for a certain ex-Party leader who incited many deluded fools to carry out their acts of terrorism?

  • ulsterscot

    picador

    Your deliberate Failure to condemn a murderer who now masks as a human rights/equality advocate says everything about the hatred and sectarian bigotry that lies within you.

    A little “non revisionist” Fable – I remember a fella in the early 1970’s in Glengormley(a mixed and relatively non polarised area at the time ) visciously attacking local protestants (I was one of those kids),intimidating residents,beating up teenagers outside a junior orange meeting – just can’t for the life of me remember his name!!!Although I beleive that his colleagues did eventually complete the ethnic cleansing mission in a large part of Glengormley.I assume that some equally bad people are “returning the service” in Stoneyford – which I condemn

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    The more I see and read of Unionism/Loyalism the more clarity I get with the old nature nurture debate.

    We really have to break the cycle here somewhere. Got to!

  • observer

    #

    The more I see and read of Unionism/Loyalism the more clarity I get with the old nature nurture debate.

    We really have to break the cycle here somewhere. Got to!
    Posted by Prionsa Eoghan on Jul 14, 2008 @ 08:48 PM

    —–
    In other words, whitewash the actions of murderous cathiolics over the last 40 years and put all the troubles down to the prods.

  • picador

    Your deliberate Failure to condemn a murderer who now masks as a human rights/equality advocate says everything about the hatred and sectarian bigotry that lies within you.

    Sorry, but was I not the one who took the trouble to figure out who was this victim that you were on about and also make the point that someone was grieving for him? Enough said. I am not going to play your little games you hate-filled creature. Stop exploiting the dead for your own poisonous agenda.

    And as for Butler – he did his time. So give over.

  • Earnan

    Well this cycle ever end??

  • NP

    “Ronnie Crawford is a hate filled cunt. Paul Butler is a hate filled cunt. Next.”

    Good stuff Dowie, at last a voice of reason.
    😉

  • Garibaldy

    Earnan,

    Not in our lifetimes.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    Observor

    Look I know that you are quite one dimensional, but let’s get serious here. Nationalists have not been posted missing when it comes to owning up to their part in the troubles. How much and to what extent is debatable, but they have came forward. What we see time and again are often petty displays of bare hatred from Unionists, the outworking usually mean Catholics suffer in some way, sometimes resulting in deaths.

    What is clear is that in a sub normal society, what can appall a normal society may be taken as the norm. It is not normal to have something like the 12th marches on TV and talked about on a level that ignores the elephant. It is not normal to be all consuming in concentrating on your neighbours, and communal outpourings of primeval lusting for blood. I know I am not putting this well at all, but I would appeal to you to take a step back and just think about what is normal in your community.

  • Cruthin

    OOOlster-scot claiming a replantation…..any old tale will do.

  • ulsterscot

    Its all about control and making the other side invisible!!!!!!! – my experience of irish nationalism in action rather than the usual blarney of of an an island respecting all its children of the nation etc etc is that territorial control at demographics 60% plus will see initial opposition to any manifestation that all residents in the area are anything less than full blooded “gaels” wonderfully happy in their condition.At 80% Gaels begin the suppression of any visible presence of difference ie no orange parades,cultural apartied.At 100% you have the reality of the Republic of reland were even hotels with +75% UK citizen occupancy will fly every flag in the world except the union jack.Thats the secret reality of an Ireland of equals – keep your head head down orangey,stay quiet(be invisible),and lets all convince ourselves we are equals.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    Jeez I seriously over done the word normal @ 09:53 PM. Sometimes when I am emotively trying to get over what I see as obvious it has a tendency to come out as utter pish. I guess all I am trying to say is that these things are learned, and in my view Unionists need to re-evaluate what they are teaching their children.

  • Billy

    Observer

    “Of course there isnt equality- terrorist parties like SF cant be equated with ordinary law abiding citizens”

    Do you feel the same way about the Orange Order which, by it’s own admission, has past + present members of “loyalist” terrorist organisations in it’s ranks?

    It also has no ban on people with convictions for being “loyalist” terrorists joining nor does it expel any such terrorists who are already members.

    It takes no action against the many OO lodges that annually carry banners and/or use bans that commemorate “loyalist” terrorists.

    Any comment on the on-going campaign of terrorism against Catholics in Stoneyford and the activities of Harbinson (a convicted criminal himself)?

    Going by previous experience, the answer to all the above will be no.

    You, like “PeaceandJustice” and a few others on this site have plenty to say about Republican violence but nothing to say about “loyalist” violence.

    The vast majority of people who visit this site have 1 thing in common – we all condemn ANY and ALL violence.

    I really wish people like you and “PeaceandJustice” etc would set up your own blog – “loyalist” terrorism deniers .com” perhaps.

    Your one-sided condemnation doesn’t fool the vast majority of decent people here. One either condemns ALL terrorism or not.

    It’s pretty clear that you, like PeaceandJustice, don’t quite see “loyalist” terrorism as being as bad as Republican terrorism.

    I’m afraid I’m a bit old fashioned – I am equally outraged at any terrorist activity and feel equally for all innocent victims regardless of their religion.

    When, and if, you are prepared to honestly condemn “loyalist” terrorism with the same voracity as you do Republican terrorism, you let me know – although I won’t hold my breath.

    Until then I, and I suspect the najority of decent folk who visit this site, will continue to see you as a hypocrite on “loyalist” terrorism whose posts provide comedy value but nothing else.

  • Cahal

    PE
    I see your point about all this being very ‘abnormal’ – two months of extremist groups shutting down towns! Living outside the north for a while really does make that pretty obvious.

    I think a lot of unionists don’t want the north to be ‘normal’ for various reasons. The prime reason being that the more normal things get, the more the north becomes ‘just another corner of Ireland’…

  • noel adams

    If the actions of the first citizen were against legal advice of officals is the mayor getting the bill for the clean up?

  • LURIG

    What’s going on in Stoneyford goes to the crux of policing in the North. There is a pogrom of innocent Catholics going on in the village being carried out by about half a dozen core perpetrators. The PSNI know who they are, the people of Stoneyford know who they are, the media know who they are and politicicans know who they are AND yet it still goes on. WHY? It’s a very simple question that Hugh Orde and his force have TOTALLY failed to answer. Are there sinister forces driving and protecting these scumbags is the REAL question that needs to be asked. WHO exactly is controlling, driving and protecting these individuals? Some posters on this site have already said that some of these individuals are paid informers and Hugh Orde should state if there is any truth in this. On a wider context the mayor torching the bonfire with SF, KAT & Tricolours on it doesn’t surprise me, Unionist politicians DO this sort of thing, in fact they major in it,they are masters of bigotry & sectarian hatred. They do it unhindered and free from questioning because the local Unionist media is still in a frenzy and preoccupied with an unarmed Republican movement. The hypocrisy of this entire duplicitous Political Process stinks to the high heavens. It’s NO wonder that the foundations are starting to crumble. The Shinners have suddenly realised that they are in government with a load of fundamental bone munching trolls from the Dark Ages who want the Fenian kept on the leash. Did they expect anything else when they went into government with them?

  • TAFKABO

    I get tired of some nationalist attempts to label all orange festivities as hate fuelled fascism, because it seems to be they’re just rationalising their own inability to come to terms with the section of Ireland that don’t conform to their fantasy gaelic utopia.
    Easier to demonise the prods that go to all that effort of accepting their difference.

    Then we get something like this incident and it become pretty f*cking difficult to deny they may indeed have a point.
    A disgraceful act showing that Crawford is not fit to hold public office. Unfortunately democracy work according to who gets the votes, not who is fit to hold office.

    Once again, a disgraceful act compounded by any unionist here who tries to rationalise it.

  • POL

    Of course there isnt equality- terrorist parties like SF cant be equated with ordinary law abiding citizens
    Posted by observer on Jul 14, 2008 @ 06:56 PM

    And now we get to real issue.Not a taig about the place.

  • POL

    Hey ulsterscot do you anything aboot that unpaid rent.

  • RG Cuan

    Maybee wee Willie who was oot fur his Dan’er there on tha BBC kens sumthin aboot thon rent POL!

  • POL

    Sorry typo error, that should have been,

    know anything aboot that unpaid rent

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7505447.stm

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “….to their fantasy gaelic utopia.

    TAKKBO…

    Sure ain’t you folk Gaels too? If not ‘Irish’ Gaels, but originally of ‘Scots’ Gaels stock! Sure are’nt they one and the same thing? Collectively you call it ‘British, don’t ye’

    ‘Easier to demonise the prods than go to all that effort of accepting their difference.’

    What you fail to understand however is that people are so dissappointed with this bahaviour by ‘the prods’ As it is not really very good or responsible behaviour, now is it TAKKBO? This from a community who prides itself with civil liberties for all, civic pride, the British way of life, tea, cricket gallant soldiers, cucumber sanwiches, etc… I detect that you are really disappointed with this behaviour too TAKKBO! I understand!

    Pol …Would there be truth then in that old ‘British’ stereotype of some Scotsmen being a bit tight with there schillings?

  • TAFKABO

    Greagoir.

    What do you want from me?
    I condemned the actions of the Lisburn mayor unreservedly.

  • ulsterscot

    Greagoir.

    Unlike TAFKABO I think Ronnie Crawfords action at Stoneyford should be congratulated.The incineration of a poster of Butler the Unrepentant Murderer should be compared to jews burning a picture of a SS officer – ie totally understandable.Had it been any other SDLP or nationalist politician with no criminal record – that would have been totally wrong.

  • Cynic

    This “debate” makes you dispair doesnt it ………

    Stand back and look at yourselves

  • Seamus

    What Republicans want is to take over Stoneyford the same way they have polluted the village of Crumlin. Isn’t there enough room in Ballymurphy and other Republican ghettos to hold all the dross?

  • POL

    What Republicans want is to take over Stoneyford the same way they have polluted the village of Crumlin. Isn’t there enough room in Ballymurphy and other Republican ghettos to hold all the dross?
    Posted by Seamus on Jul 15, 2008 @ 08:53 AM

    And now we see the bnp raise their ugly heid.

    Pure sectarian hatred inbred no doubt.

    Hardly surprising that your hate fest is seen for exactly what it is when we have cretins like yourselves about lol.

  • Cuairteoir

    I think Ronnie Crawfords action at Stoneyford should be congratulated.

    I never knew Ulster Scoots came from Serbia. Slobodan would have been proud.

  • circles

    Thanks TAFKABO for the post.

  • Traditional_Unionist

    I congratuate Mr Crawford for doing this. Burning an image of an unrepentant murderer should be welcomed.

    If Butler ever repents then things might change but until then he will always be hated by the vast majority in Lisburn. And no not because he is a catholic as some people try to claim. but because he cowardly shot a policeman in the back killing him. and he wears this murder as a badge of honour.

    burn posters of him and his unrepentant murdering friends in SF/IRA everyday I say!

  • POL

    And out come the bigots from under their stones.Hey TU i`ll take a wild guess and say you must be part of that wee TUV community lol.Are you feeling a tad marginalzed these days lol.

  • Lenny

    Why should nationalists be surprised at this? Throughout the troubles, loyalist paramilitaries slaughtered innocent catholic men women and children and were rarely condemned by unionist politicians. I’m sure Crawford’s actions meet the approval of most unionists.

  • Traditional_Unionist

    POL

    you calling me a bigot is a good thing in my eyes. let me explain why. you are clearly calling me bigotted against unrepentant murderers. As I explained clearly to you why I supporter Mr Crawford doing this. what is wrong with being bigoted against unrepentant murderers?

  • picador

    So to be a Catholic living in Stoneyford is to be an unrepentant murderer!? Puzzle that one out.

    The whole thing about Butler is a side-issue and a distraction. Harbinson and his allies want to keep the focus on Butler to distract from the activities of the Klan.

    Like I said, sweet home Alabama.

  • Traditional_Unionist

    picador

    you are delibrately avoiding the issue and trying to make this about catholics, when it is not, it is about Butler.

    people are complaining about Mr Crawford lighting this thing because their was a poster of Paul Butler on it. Saying it is “unacceptable” etc.

    why is it unacceptable to burn something with a poster of Paul Butler on it?

    the ordinary catholic in stoneyford has nothing to do with this. it is between Crawford and the unrepentant murderer Butler

  • wasting time

    RBK, I mean OoolserScat,

    Yer a bit of a wee dafty, but dinny hould back! They’ll release ‘Irish history for dummies’ some day soon so hang in there.

  • POL

    POL

    you calling me a bigot is a good thing in my eyes. let me explain why. you are clearly calling me bigotted against unrepentant murderers. As I explained clearly to you why I supporter Mr Crawford doing this. what is wrong with being bigoted against unrepentant murderers?

    Really simple to answer that one.

    Yet again we see the usual loyalist posters hitting out at the shinners whilst they say nothing when their hate fest allows convicted murderers to parade carrying the usual banners commemerating loyalists who were guilty of murder.Thats why you and you`re ilk are bigots. Have`nt come across too many repentant loyalists lately, especially the loyalist scum of stoneyford who`s idea of loyalism is attacking families in their bed or children on the streets…..The PEEP O DAY BOYS of stoneyford have alot to be proud of…sick bigotted losers.

  • Garibaldy

    I think Irish History for Dummies is already out.

  • earnan

    SF has accepted nonviolence to achieve their political goals.

    Mvoe on.

  • Happy Holidays

    Dalraidan Scots(Ulster Scots)

    Gaelic speakers. Fact.

  • truth and justice

    I thought Harbinson was a member of the TUV?

  • GavBelfast

    In a parallel world, Crawford and Butler are two of the leading advocates of the stadium-and-memorial-white-elephant-combo at the Maze site, as a flagship of our shared future.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    “Dalraidan Scots(Ulster Scots)

    Gaelic speakers. Fact.” – Happy Holiday

    Then why do Unionists ignore, or despise rather, the Gaelic language?

    “Unlike TAFKABO I think Ronnie Crawfords action at Stoneyford should be congratulated.The incineration of a poster of Butler the Unrepentant Murderer should be compared to jews burning a picture of a SS officer -ie totally understandable.Had it been any other SDLP or nationalist politician with no criminal record – that would have been totally wrong.” – Ulster Scot

    “I congratuate Mr Crawford for doing this. Burning an image of an unrepentant murderer should be welcomed.” – Traditional Unionist

    So folks, ye don’t think that this action might be a little negative? What if everyone were to do the same. Every year on the 11th, the old Tri-Colour emblazoned with the initials K.A.T. goes up in smoke with every bonfire. As well as that, Lundy’s effigy seems to have been replaced with someone from the Nationalist community, no matter who. Remember the Catholic youth who was murdered in a sectarian attack a few years ago and the message that read atop of the bonfire?

    We can all take the same approach as Mr Crawford, but in hindsight it is not very productive whether such an acrimonious gesture is aimed at an innocent youth or a former IRA killer.

    I think some deep relective thought is required by Unionists and Republicans alike!

  • Occassional Commentor

    G. O’F.: “I think some deep relective thought is required by Unionists and Republicans alike!”

    Hear, hear!

    “Then why do Unionists ignore, or despise rather, the Gaelic language?”

    Should read “NI Unionists”. They are afraid.

    A friend of mine is from the Lewis, and her parents native Gàidhlig speakers. I had a text from the Celtic League that I hoped they would read aloud as I recorded them.

    Alas, it was way too technical and academic for them. But they did read from their Gaelic Bible.

    These folks were more Presbyterian and Unionist than Ian Paisley, Sr.

    BTW your name, O’Frainclin, is it Gaelicised “Franklin” (or more literally “Franklinson”), from “Frank Lien” (Free Hold)?

  • Bula Bos

    Tafkabo, a thoughtful post – i’ve just bought you a virtual pint ou un vin rouge, si tu prefere.

  • james

    ‘In a parallel world, Crawford and Butler are two of the leading advocates of the stadium-and-memorial-white-elephant-combo at the Maze site, as a flagship of our shared future’

    Yeah Gavin, almost as bizarre as having the Irish Football Asociation trying to be all ‘we love everyone, even taigs’, while the IFA president marches on the 12th of July with his orange collerette.

    If The rules of the Orange Order forbid members from becoming Catholics, marrying Catholics, or of attending Catholic Church services under the pain of being expelled, How does Raymond Kennedy marry these beliefs with being the president of an association that claims to be non sectarian & inclusive??

  • POL

    the ordinary catholic in stoneyford has nothing to do with this. it is between Crawford and the unrepentant murderer Butler
    Posted by Traditional_Unionist on Jul 15, 2008 @ 02:22 PM

    So why burn them out and assault their children on the streets.Fool yourself TU if you wish, but the crux of this, Is everything about religion.Butler is a public representative so puts himself on the firing line the innocent catholic families of stoneyford are just easy targets. The lack of law and order on the part of Harbinson and his scumbag cronies matches the wilful neglect within the police who protect the scum rather than their victims.Dont belive me use the links below.

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2007/dec15_attack_on_boy_linked_Loyalist_threats.php

    http://www.publicpolitics.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=97224

    http://www.voy.com/70381/3032.html

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    Cheers Occasional Commentator!

    Yep, my surname is Gaelicised here on Sluggar. ‘Franklin’, perhaps originally French – Francquelin, which arrived in England during the late Middle Ages, (ie Anglo-Norman) became Anglicised to Franklin, meaning freeholder or freeman.

  • Eireannach Saolta

    Anyone know of any other UUP links to loyalist paramilitaries that are in the public domain?

  • ken

    In fairness, Crawford had his posters burned on the Rathvarna bonfire two years in a row because he objected on behalf of residents about the mess being made of that area by loyalist thugs and Butlers monicker is a regular feature of that bonfire.
    Everyone seems to overlook the fact that the event went off peacefully which probably disappoints Butler who is using Stoneyford for his own ends. When Poleglass and Twinbrook go into Belfast consituencies, Butler is out of a job. His posters then will be collectors’ items

  • King Arthur

    According to Talkback the Mayor claims that he negotiated the removal of the material and the use of the beecon and toeing the line on the Parades Commission determination. The money was apparently provided by the CRC so presumably they thought it worthwhile as it probably saved a lot in policing costs. Butlers probably annoyed that the loyalist weren’t attacking the police which with his dastardly record would have been his first preference.
    Why are so many bothered about burning a poster? If it takes that to let the thing go peacefully so what?

  • POL

    Why are so many bothered about burning a poster? If it takes that to let the thing go peacefully so what?
    Posted by King Arthur on Jul 16, 2008 @ 05:53 PM

    Because by lighting their beacon crawford is giving a sign that its okay to intimidate catholics in the area.And especially given the fact that there was also a KAT reference.Are lord mayors not supposed to be representative of the entire community not just a band of bigots.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    In the words of a well known man;

    “Forgive them father, they know not what they do”

    It is pretty obvious that they just do not understand what it is they are doing, or if they do the complexity of it’s significance.

  • Democratic

    Any intimidation of Catholics in Stoneyford or anywhere else is completely unjustified and wrong – it needs to end sooner rather than later.
    To be fair to Crawford in this instance – he found himself in a very unenviable position where what was morally correct and the course of action that would lead to his safe exit from the scene diverged spectacularly…..
    As for Butler as a life long commited and militant enemy of the NI Unionist community – the burning of his image though counter-productive to society as we move forward is something I cannot bring myself to get too worked up about in anger….

  • King Arthur

    “Forgive them father, they know not what they do”

    Cllr. Crawford’s brother was murdered by the IRA some years ago, yet when Micky Ferguson died he paid him a fulsome tribute, carried by the Andytown news, and attended his funeral. That is hardly the hallmark of a bigot.
    As for Butler speaking on community relations, it is like listening to the concentration camp commandant talking about air pollution

  • Alstar Skats Spaker

    Ooolstar Skats oor tha mastar rayce who balit Amerika single handedly so they did.

    Ioooocant vactims oof athnec cleinsing by taigs