Football friendlies round-up

Northern Ireland had a comfortable 4-1 victory over Georgia. England lost 1-0 to France. Scotland drew 1-1 with Croatia. Wales won 2-0 over Luxembuorg.

  • Ranger1640

    Great to see the GAWA still on the march and Engerland are still as crap as ever!!!

  • dewi

    Bigger deal for Wales Almost qualified for our first championship since 1958….Toshack gonna play Giggsy in the next under 21 international…..

  • Excellent first half from Norn Iron. Completely useless second half. Still, if you can play like that and come away 4-1 winners it can’t be that bad, even if it was “only Georgia” – it’s not that long ago that Georgia would have seemed tough enough.

    And WTF was the deal with the 2 Linfield players? Mannus I can let slide in a friendly but there were several outfield players who should have had callups ahead of Gault and Thompson.

  • abucs

    A 4-1 win over anyone these days is pretty good.
    Good to see a team not frightened to get forward and score some goals.

  • agh

    also did peter thompson claim the last goal? First Irish League player to score for NI in how many years?

  • willowfield

    24 years. Last one was Lee Doherty in 1984.

  • That Thompson was given the goal was a travesty. I’m not sure he got the last touch which seemed to me to come off the goalkeeper, but even allowing for him touching it he was impeding the goalkeeper. He fouled the keeper and in the process the ball may have bounced in off him.

    Lafferty on the other hand was brilliant. Davis was another stand-out for me. But the 2nd half was dreadful.

  • darth rumsfeld

    beano’s obviously a bitter and twisted Glenman, blind to the fact that Thompson and Gault are the stand out Irish League players this season. If Worthington is serious about playing local guys they deserved a chance. It’s not like there were many spare bodies left after the call-offs. I was asked to bring along the boots meself

    However- both Gault and Thompson were unimpressive- as have Hamilton and Andy Smith before them. Thompson’s goal was probably a foul on the very dodgy keeper. The goal of the night undoubtedly Sir David’s brilliant OG,riding the tackle, beating his man and thumping it low and hard into the bottom corner.

    Only question- does that add to or subtract from his overall total. In fact we’ve only managed not to self-destruct in two matches since August!!!!

    And what other team has scored 5 own goals in a season

  • darth rumsfeld

    oops- obviously got me sentences mixed up in the last post- but you know what I mean

  • Darth – perhaps instead of “giving the local guys a chance” (if they play for Linfield) Worthington should concentrate on selecting the best players available to him. It isn’t his job to promote the Irish League, nor should it be his job to try and repair the IFA’s hand-in glove relationship with Linfield. Last night Dean Shiels could have had a rare chance to impress, but instead we have a futile butter up the bluemen exercise. Btw – I’d imagine Beano won’t be pleased to be called a Glenman!

  • “beano’s obviously a bitter and twisted Glenman”

    Bitter: usually. Twisted: in my finer moments. Glenman? Get away tae fuck.

  • “both Gault and Thompson were unimpressive”

    Which is exactly why they shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Thousands of fans in the stands could have told Worthy that before the match kicked off.

  • I see Brian Feeney has been writing with his usual unerring accuracy, describing Our Wee Country as the IFA’s fans’ site. What part of “independent” does he not understand?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Doesn’t the Georgia flag look very similar to the northeastern 6 counties soccer flag?

  • Jackie Fullershit

    Aye, it’s all about Harry , St. George and old England.

    Surely in this new world where air travel is so harmful to the environment it makes sense to revive the Home Internationals.

    The four home countries were playing all sorts of liquorice last night. Instead, we could have been in Wrecsam with the Doog commandeering the back post, and daring the large-handed Fenian to let one in.

  • The Truth

    Why don’t we organise a 6 nations like the rugbaí, Ireland, France, Italy and the 3 from Britain. The only problem is we’d still probably be sheeyte. Although another problem would be the poor colonial slaves here in the northeast of Ireland would get erections when the english national anthem was played. Poor slaves, more to be pitied than scorned.

  • Muad’Dub

    Anyone else think the Georgia Keeper looked a wee bit like Napoleon Dynamite?

  • Democratic

    “Although another problem would be the poor colonial slaves here in the northeast of Ireland would get erections when the english national anthem was played. Poor slaves, more to be pitied than scorned.”

    Yawn – don’t hate mate – appreciate!
    Onwards and Upwards!

  • darth rumsfeld

    Quite happy to concede Shiels (and Sproule and McCann) deserved runouts. But we’ve seen Gault and Thompson now, and the question has been answered- they’re not up to it. Job done. Lesson learned. But where else could that have been tried out?-they’re both over 21. Should they have lumbered about the park against San Marino ina competitive match?

    Beano- my apologies for calling you a Glenman- the most insulting thing anyone can call a local football fan, I know. But be alarmed: you are starting to sound like one. If you support Baaallymena don’t bring your leg of lamb to the thread though…

  • Darth – Thompson had been given several opportunities in the past, including a start in a friendly against Romania. This was his 7th cap. And I doubt we’ve seen the last of him. The call will now be that these players haven’t had a fair chance.

    10 years down the line the whole thing recurs with the latest batch of Linfield players and every time the IFA / the manager indulges them / you.

  • raymond

    I have to say that the start of Northern Ireland games at Windsor Park are more like unionist celebrations with god save the queen being belted out by players and supporters and ‘no surrender’ being chanted.

  • GavBelfast

    You only “have to say that” if you like to profoundly exaggerate at best, or more likely basically enjoy telling big juicy porkies.

  • Mike C

    Didn’t hear “no surrender” being chanted at all raymond….clearly you weren’t watcing the match. I think you’ll find it extremely common that the national anthem of a country is played before the beginning of an international football match….pretty damn sure Georgia’s was played too.

  • Johnny Beat The Rap

    I was watching the game and clearly heard the noisy ‘No Surrender’ add-on during GSTQ. However in Gav and Mike’s world, it didn’t happen of course.
    Take yer ear-plugs out, lads!

  • Doctor Who

    “I was watching the game and clearly heard the noisy ‘No Surrender’ add-on during GSTQ.”

    And of course it was at that point you decided you had been emotionally violated and turned the tv over.

  • GavBelfast

    I’ll be gentle, for sock-puppets have emotions, too.

  • Johnny Beat The Rap

    Reassuring that you’re still keeping your heads in the sand, Gav and Stacey,… sorry,I mean Doctor, of course.

    Personally I don’t mind your sizeable neanderthal element singing their beloved sectarian war-chant just so long as that sates the old tribal bloodlust nowadays.

    Better that than issuing mortal threats against your own players. Those indeed were the days, my friends-eh,Stacey?

  • chewnic

    Nice to see the three sporting organisations presenting a united front today in relation to the pointless request for yet another Stormont committee meeting.

    Their unified support in favour of the Maze Project has shown our local politicos the true meaning of working in partnership.

    How pompous did David McNarry appear on the news linking this measured decision with the recent controversies over players’ dissent and bad behaviour.-Was that the best he could do? He was like a farcical hybrid of Ron Manager and Jimmy Young.

    Well done to the IFA, GAA and Ulster Rugnby officials involved and a fitting response to those opponents who want to remain in the sectarian trenches.

  • Billy

    GavBelfast

    “enjoy telling big juicy porkies”

    Are you claiming that there wasn’t a big chant of “No Surrender” during GSTQ then? I think anyone (with normal hearing) who was either at the game or saw on TV (such as myself) would disagree.

    If you are claiming that it wasn’t chanted then you are either a liar or in dire need of a hearing aid.

    I don’t know why anyone is surprised though, a large section of the “GAWA” chant it at every NI game.

    It just shows that sectarianism doesn’t appear to have been eradicated at NI matches as OWC and the GAWA claim.

    It also clearly shows that these morons are more interested in taunting and provoking Catholics than in respecting “their” anthem.

    Yet when the majority of Catholics choose to support the RoI and/or choose to represent the RoI, they are labelled as bigots.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Yet when the majority of Catholics choose to support the RoI and/or choose to represent the RoI, they are labelled as bigots.

    You couldn’t make it up.”

    Er.. you just have.
    There’s never been any survey taken or proper academic study which establishes what percentage of RCs support NI or the Republic. Just because all the trolls and their families on slugger clearly do, is not proof that ordinary people with real lives do. Noone knows if all, none, or even 50% +1 RCs support the Republic, but you presume it’s a majority Billy.

  • Seamus

    Just to clarify, the real GAWA (Green and White Army) are of course the Limerick Hurling Team.

  • Democratic

    “Just to clarify, the real GAWA (Green and White Army) are of course the Limerick Hurling Team.”

    Who are ya? Who are ya? etc, etc,

  • Democratic

    “It also clearly shows that these morons are more interested in taunting and provoking Catholics than in respecting “their” anthem.”
    Just to clarify Billy – do you as (I presume) a Catholic find the “no surrender to the IRA” sentiment a provocative taunt because you are a Catholic then?

  • Doctor Who

    Here we go, the usual bollox everytime NI play.

    As someone who cares little for GSTQ I find it rather ironic that the usual suspects on this forum find the “No Surrender” add on by a minority of NI fans offensive. Surely the only person it is likely to cause offense ro is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and you can rest assured she wasn´t watching.

    Johnny beat the rap

    “Better that than issuing mortal threats against your own players. Those indeed were the days, my friends-eh,Stacey?”

    You´ve lost me there fella, did you enjoy the match or did you only watch the build up to get offended.

    Anyway great first half performance from OWC, did descend into farce with the amount of substitutions and Lifield appearances. Surely the second half would´ve been ideal to give Dean Shiels, Ivan Sproule and Grant McCann a run out. Strange as well that when Capaldi is in top form with FA Cup semi finalists Cardiff City, he no longer gets into OWC squad.

    Big Lafferty continues to improve and really has the makings of top class player, good luck to him.

  • Billy

    “Democratic” – What a laugh!

    “Just to clarify Billy – do you as (I presume) a Catholic find the “no surrender to the IRA” sentiment a provocative taunt because you are a Catholic then?”

    I have no time for any terrorist groups as my track record on this forum clearly shows.

    It’s interesting how the GAWA chant anti-IRA stuff but don’t chant any anti UVF/UDA/LVF stuff.
    Nothing like consistency eh?

    Why chant anything about any terrorist group anyway? I though NI support was now a politics free zone where supporters of all religions and none were equally welcome.

    Yeah – right!

    The question was about “No Surrender” being chanted during GSTQ. This happens at EVERY NI match from a large section of the “GAWA”

    Frankly, if the IFA want to retain GSTQ as the pre soccer anthem and the ‘GAWA’ want to chant “No Surrender” during it (clearly to let any Catholic supporters know their place), that’s fine.

    However, it’s just laughable when supporters of the north come on and criticise Catholics who won’t support them as bigots. Who exactly is doing this chanting again?

    Perhaps, we would just rather follow a team who value our support, and where we don’t have to “know our place” to be welcome.

  • lizzy2

    “Surely the only person it is likely to cause offense ro is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and you can rest assured she wasn´t watching.”

    erm Doctor who are ya.

    I was watching. Last goal was in off the arm.

    OK, I was pleased, but surely the umpires should have detected that the striker was INSIDE the small parallelogram and informed the ref accordingly.

  • Billy

    Darth

    “There’s never been any survey taken or proper academic study which establishes what percentage of RCs support NI or the Republic”

    Please don’t presume to lecture me about what people think in the RC/Nationalist community.

    As I was born and bred in the Nationalist/RC community, I think I’m a lot better placed than you to judge the mood.

    It’s so pathetic when NI supporters come on here with the “I know a couple of Catholics who sit behind me at every NI game and they love the craic” line.

    I can confidently say that I have a lot more family, friends and business connections within the Nationalist/RC community than you’ll ever have.

    I would say that there isn’t as much antagonism towards the NI team as in the past but that’s about it.

    The very little progress that the IFA made in getting Nationalist/RC support was largely undone by the ill-advised attempts to deny Nationalists their right to opt for the RoI.

    I know only 1 Catholic who is an ardent NI fan. I know a very few others who would perhaps give lukewarm support.

    The vast majority (99%)of Nationalist/RC soccer fans that I know are fervent RoI supporters and are largely ambivalent to the fortunes of the NI team.

    If the RoI team can fulfill their undoubted potential under Trappatoni, I suspect that increasing numbers of Nationalist/RC players will take up their option to declare for them.

    If the GAWA choose to retain GSTQ and their vocal “No Surrender” chants, I don’t know why you expect Nationalists/RCs to support them.

    If you want to delude yourself that a majority of Nationalists/RCs ( or even a sizeable number) support NI, that’s your problem. I think anyone with a realistic view knows that it simply is not the case.

    If the “GAWA” keep up their current behaviour, I think that number (already very small) will decrease even more.

  • The original Sam Maguire

    This probably isn’t the right place for it, and perhaps I might have just missed it, but I find it shocking that none of the regular contributors have found the apres match city centre antics on Saturday nor the bullet in the mail to Eddie Patterson of Clintonville to be blog worthy.

  • Democratic

    You never even answered my question Billy – just went into one of your usual propagandist rants with your fingers in your ears – why would either of us even bother to post AT each other! Too be honest like the poster above I’m actually quite shocked that you haven’t tried to connect the NI supporters to the scumfest last Saturday – though I suppose you’ve time yet.
    Oh and you can stick your ad homs’ too my friend…

  • RepulicanStones

    ‘This probably isn’t the right place for it, and perhaps I might have just missed it, but I find it shocking that none of the regular contributors have found the apres match city centre antics on Saturday nor the bullet in the mail to Eddie Patterson of Clintonville to be blog worthy.’

    i thought it strange as well, until i remembered that it was usual form for them boyos. Remember the lovely cards Neil Lennon got. But I wonder if the Govt will try and portray the bullet in the post to Eddie Patterson as some form of Loyalist decomissioning.

  • Billy

    Democratic

    You seem to have a problem with the English language – I am not offended by no surrender to the IRA since I don’t support them or any other terrorist organisation.

    Why chant anything at all about any terrorist group? and/or why single out one group and completely ignore “loyalist” terrorists?

    It simply shows that the “GAWA” are still a Protestant/Unionist clique where Catholics who “know their place” are tolerated.

    To date, I have seen nothing in the media to associate NI fans with the trouble on Saturday so why would I try to link them?

    As far as I am aware, it was a gang of Linfield “fans” although I now understand that there was some National Front involvement.

    I will continue to criticise the GAWA for things that they have actually done (such as the No Surrender chants).

    However, unlike some people on this site. I am interested in FACTS. I have seen no evidence associating NI fans with this trouble so I’m not accusing them of something that is nothing to do with them.

    It’s quite simple logic really.

  • willowfield

    However, unlike some people on this site. I am interested in FACTS

    How do you explain your previous lies, then, Billy Liar? Remember your lies about the anti-sectarian campaign at NI matches? And your lies about me?

  • Democratic

    Billy – thanks for instructing me on my poor english comprehension I will endeavour to do better in future. You did answer the question this time though contrary to what you said before and it is nice to see you admit that the No Surrender to the IRA sentiment is neither religiously sectarian nor in any way offensive to Roman Catholicism as a whole. If it is offensive because some people choose to support the IRA that are Catholics or because some Catholics are Republican/Nationalist by virtue of their politics then that is a separate matter and I would appreciate it you would use the correct terminology next time you go off on one. Apart from that could luck on your anti-NI crusade and as a parting comment to you I would say that I would like the whole No Surrender canned as well ASAP – if only just to stop giving certain propagandists a “free kick” to put the boot in once or twice a month….

  • Billy is obsessed. He crawls out of the woodwork every time there’s a thread about the Northern Ireland team.

  • willowfield

    Given Billy Liar’s noble declaration that he’s only interested in “facts”, this is a good opportunity for him to retract LIES which he told repeatedly on this site last year.

    1. In the thread “A November Night Revisited”, at 1.15am on 6th August, he said that the IFA had only made strides against sectarianism “because the publicity they got from the Neil Lennon death threat forced them to do so”. It was pointed out to him several times that the IFA’s anti-sectarian campaign had begun many years before said death threat, but still Billy refused to retract the lie. Indeed, he actually repeated the lie – in the thread “IFA provoking political row over football eligibility?” at 11.37pm on 20th August.

    2. In the former thread, in the same post, he also lied by stating that “In a match prior to the death threat, Neil Lennon had endured a torrid 90 minutes where his every touch was booed by the majority of NI fans. McIlroy more or less glossed over it and the IFA said nothing”. In actual fact, Lennon was booed by a small MINORITY of “fans”, cheered by more, and the IFA condemned it, held a press conference and introduced a code of conduct as a result. Lennon was also roundly cheered by the vast majority of fans at the next match.

    3. In the latter thread, at 10.48am on 23rd August, he made scurrilous personal allegations against myself:

    (a) claiming that I denied “that Windsor was ever a cold house for Catholics” (I have never denied this);

    (b) claiming that I denied “that Linfield didn’t sign Catholics for many years” (again, I have never denied this); and

    (c) claiming that I “think [I] can deny the anti-Catholic sectarianism that blighted NI football for decades” and that I “try to portray that everything is perfect now” (totally untrue).

    Billy Liar was unable to back up these personal allegations, yet refused to retract them. I now challenge Billy Liar to show some integrity and retract his lies.

  • willowfield

    Where has Billy gone?

  • Charlie

    Across the water, football pundits and fans always refer to N. Ireland and their fans as ‘the Irish’ and they’re perceived as being distinctively and admirably Irish just as the Scotland, Wales and England football teams and fans have their own identity…of course, this makes perfect sense & is just as it should be and it pleases me that the only people that this is likely to irritate are extreme Loyalists clinging tenuously to ‘Britishness’ or Norn Iron-haters who think to be ‘really Irish’ you have to exclusively support the Republic…those who seek every excuse for perpetuating and maintaining sectarian schism in Ulster are a sorry bunch and should be pitied rather than despised…

  • rubin

    Glad to see Martin O,Neill & Pat Jennings coming out in favour of an all Ireland team, just as George Best, Derek Dougan & Lennon did before them.

  • andrew

    Jennings has spoken about wish for an all Ireland team before & seems just as keen now.

    “It’s the bureaucracy involved in changing things that has always been the problem, and it’s a measure of the opposition there was to the (1973) fixture from the IFA that the team had to play under the guise of a Shamrock Rovers XI.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7324995.stm

    O’Neill, Jennings & Hamiltom were all in Dublin to commemorate the ‘all Ireland team of 1973.

    http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3035

  • kensei

    Charlie

    those who seek every excuse for perpetuating and maintaining sectarian schism in Ulster are a sorry bunch and should be pitied rather than despised…

    I know, I know…. Unionists should really vote to get rids of the border.

    My flag is the Tricolour. My anthem is the Soldier’s Song. Those are the symbols that have emotional pull. I am a citizen of the Republic and carry an Irish passport and am proud of it. I despise monarchy and would be happier for God to drown them all than save them. Which team am I going to go for, which team is representative of me, realistically here? It is independent of what Unionists or the English or anyone else thinks.

  • Nice to see during the god awful days of the troubles in 1973 that a team representing all Irishmen from North and South come very close to beating the World Champions. Sorry to hear about Derek Dougan’s treatment after it too. Martin O’Neill is correct in that it would have been some team around that time, and there would have been 6 Irish players from Arsenal (Brady, Jennings, O’Leary, Nelson, Rice and Stapleton) representing Ireland.. ah …what might have been.

    Thanks for the link Andrew.

  • willowfield

    If you think the all-Ireland team was good at that time, imagine how much better an all-British-Isles team would have been, with the top English, Scottish and Welsh players also involved.

    World beaters!

  • UFB

    “Do you as (I presume) a Catholic find the “no surrender to the IRA” sentiment a provocative taunt because you are a Catholic then?”

    As someone born into the Catholic faith but considers themselves irreligious no.

    It’s the other more err, “traditional” and “colourful” songs from “the best wee supporters in the world” that I find offensive.

    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=gMCAljqoTVc

    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=3Divl_I-pyg

  • willowfield

    Where did Billy go?

  • Billy

    Chekov

    “Billy is obsessed. He crawls out of the woodwork every time there’s a thread about the Northern Ireland team”

    Classic – it must be my imagination or else someone is using your name because ‘Chekov’ also seems to come “out of the woodwork” every time there is a thread about the 6 county team. In your case, it’s always to claim that all is wonderful and there is no sectarian chanting and generally to downplay the decades of disgraceful sectarian behaviour of the so-called “GAWA”.

    It might upset you but there are some honest “GAWA” members here who freely admit that it was very bad for a very long time.

    Maybe we’re both obsessed but only 1 of us is trying to revise history and it isn’t me.

  • willowfield

    Billy Liar, you’ve just lied again. You tried to revise history by telling the lies which I have quoted on the previous page.

    Do yourself a favour and have the integrity to retract them.

  • “In your case, it’s always to claim that all is wonderful and there is no sectarian chanting and generally to downplay the decades of disgraceful sectarian behaviour of the so-called “GAWA”.”

    I have never claimed that everything is wonderful. And the reason that I post on many threads concerning the Northern Ireland team is because I’m a passionate supporter of the team.

  • Billy

    Willowfield

    You should get out more!

    As you are well aware, you made an very strong implication ( effectively an allegation) about me that was a lot more serious than anything I supposedly said about you – you know what I’m referring to.

    I stated before that, since you are not prepared to apologise then neither am I, so it would be more sensible to move on.

    If you want to bore people to death with these posts about who said what, go ahead.

    When you’re ready to talk about your implication (allegations), you let me know.

    If you just want to take up pages whinging about me, that play, etc etc – I’ll pass and anyone sensible would do the same.

  • Hence my comments on this thread, which up until your appearance were confined to thoughts on the selection and performance of the team. Do you have any thoughts on the selection or performance of the team Billy?

  • willowfield

    Billy Liar

    As you are well aware, you made an very strong implication ( effectively an allegation) about me that was a lot more serious than anything I supposedly said about you – you know what I’m referring to.

    I’m afraid I don’t, Billy, you’ll have to enlighten me. I’ve no idea to what you’re referring.

    I stated before that, since you are not prepared to apologise then neither am I, so it would be more sensible to move on.

    I am more than prepared to apologise if I have made erroneous or unfair statements. Indeed, I remember apologising to you last year sometime.

    Why are your apologies dependent upon your wholly inaccurate assumption about my unwillingness to apologise? Don’t you have sufficient integrity to admit when you are wrong – regardless of what others do?

    But let’s forget an apology for now: presumably you now accept that you told lies?

  • Charlie

    Kensei

    “My flag is the Tricolour. My anthem is the Soldier’s Song. Those are the symbols that have emotional pull. I am a citizen of the Republic and carry an Irish passport and am proud of it. I despise monarchy and would be happier for God to drown them all than save them.”

    This punter is perfectly respectful to anyone who feels that strongly and doesn’t feel any antipathy towards them…would be nice to think that you could extend the same courtesy to a fellow Irish passport holder who feels it is perfectly inkeeping with his brand of Irish patriotism to wholeheartedly support his fellow-Irishmen who play for the Northern Ireland football team…

  • kensei

    Charlie

    This punter is perfectly respectful to anyone who feels that strongly and doesn’t feel any antipathy towards them…would be nice to think that you could extend the same courtesy to a fellow Irish passport holder who feels it is perfectly inkeeping with his brand of Irish patriotism to wholeheartedly support his fellow-Irishmen who play for the Northern Ireland football team…

    I’m a live and let live kind of guy and am quite happy for everyone else to do what they want regardless of what anyone else thinks, least of all me. Personally, I’m entirely neutral on NI….. unless there is either 1. horrible sectarianism (thankfully diminishing) 2. they decide they want to try and block Irish citizens playing for their country in which case I’m, entirely happy to see them beat.

  • You’re not a ‘live and let live kind of guy’ at all Kensei. You’re trying to prescribe identity even in the post in which you claim to be a ‘live and let live kind of guy’. You’re trying to define Irishness in a way which links it exclusively to the Republic of Ireland. Preventing Irish people from playing for the Republic of Ireland is not preventing them from playing for their country. If they have no geographical or parental link with the Republic of Ireland it is preventing them from playing for a country which is not theirs. If people are born in Northern Ireland, live in Northern Ireland and their parents and grandparents are from Northern Ireland their country is Northern Ireland, in terms of geography, political realities and football. You’re not a ‘live and let live kind of guy’, you’re a nasty little ethno nationalist attempting to run roughshod over the principle of consent.

  • kensei

    Chekov

    You’re not a ‘live and let live kind of guy’ at all Kensei. You’re trying to prescribe identity even in the post in which you claim to be a ‘live and let live kind of guy’.

    I’m not prescribing any identity. I merely state the one that means anything to me, and am content for others to do whatever fulfills them. Perhaps you missed that point.

    You’re trying to define Irishness in a way which links it exclusively to the Republic of Ireland.

    I’m not, of course. I do not claim that it is the be all and end all of Irishness. Simply that it is my Irishness, and I’m proud of it faults and all.

    Preventing Irish people from playing for the Republic of Ireland is not preventing them from playing for their country.

    Well, it is if they are a citizen of that country.

    If they have no geographical or parental link with the Republic of Ireland it is preventing them from playing for a country which is not theirs. If people are born in Northern Ireland, live in Northern Ireland and their parents and grandparents are from Northern Ireland their country is Northern Ireland, in terms of geography, political realities and football.

    Countries are political and cultural entities. Nationalists here have full citizenship.

    You’re not a ‘live and let live kind of guy’, you’re a nasty little ethno nationalist attempting to run roughshod over the principle of consent.

    I am not a course an ethnic anything, and I don’t think I’m actually the one being nasty here. The principle applies regardless of whether the Irish citizen is black, white, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu or other. However, I don’t know if I’m entirely comfortable with labeling any form of Nationalism or community as “ethno” with some dark connotations. Shared culture, shared history and family ties are part of the things that bind countries together. That can be use din negative ways, but it doesn’t have to be.

    The PoC refers to the jurisdiction that the Six Counties are governed by. It does not say anything about the Nationalist of people within said state. Indeed the GFA specifically references the fact that people are free to choose their nationality.

    But we’ve done this to death. If you have appetite for further argument, go read the relevant threads.

  • “The PoC refers to the jurisdiction that the Six Counties are governed by. It does not say anything about the Nationalist of people within said state.”

    It means that they will respect the institutions of that state and accept that those of another state do not enjoy jurisdiction until such times as the majority says they do.

    “Indeed the GFA specifically references the fact that people are free to choose their nationality.”

    It does not. It recognises the equal legitimacy of identities. Identity and political nationality are two separate things. The GFA recognises the aspiration to a united Ireland. It does not recognise the right to act like a united Ireland has been achieved or joint sovereignty is in place.

  • I should say that I know the Agreement recognises the right of both countries to grant citizenship, but again that is not the same thing as allowing people to cleave to whichever institutions the feel most comfortable with. They cannot under the GFA choose their nationality as regards institutions and that includes football.

  • kensei

    Chekov

    I should say that I know the Agreement recognises the right of both countries to grant citizenship, but again that is not the same thing as allowing people to cleave to whichever institutions the feel most comfortable with. They cannot under the GFA choose their nationality as regards institutions and that includes football.

    One follows from the other. Citizenship is the legal expression of “identity” and “nationality”. People are entirely free to ignore institutions to the degree that access to the separate citizenship of the Republic allows them to do so. The PoC also does not mean that everyone here has to like or respect every institution, however much you’d wish it to be so.

    Until now, access to Irish citizenship has provided an unambiguous right to declare for the Republic’s football team if they so desire. The IFA has sought to attack that using a ruling regarding Brazilians being given passports for Qatar solely to play football for that country, and often on a temporary basis. To do so both undermines the provisions of the GFA regarding nationality and is a huge misreading (of the nationalist mindset.

    Again, done all this before too many times.

  • majordolittle

    Remind me again what Tony Cacsarino’s nationality was? I’m sure it was different to Andy Townsend, and all the other ROI players who were about as irish as Ghengis Khan.

  • rubin

    How does Maik Taylor qualify for the North?

    I’m pretty sure he has no parent,grandparent or great grandparent connections here, yet still plays

  • “One follows from the other. Citizenship is the legal expression of “identity” and “nationality””

    You are wrong. Identity, nationality and citizenship are three different things.

    “People are entirely free to ignore institutions to the degree that access to the separate citizenship of the Republic allows them to do so. The PoC also does not mean that everyone here has to like or respect every institution, however much you’d wish it to be so.”

    You are wrong. It may be possible to ignore institutions, but it is also contrary to the principle of consent. It is therefore correct to attempt to close down these possibilities where they occur. The IFA were correct to attempt to close down the possibility as regards football.

    “Until now, access to Irish citizenship has provided an unambiguous right to declare for the Republic’s football team if they so desire.”

    That sentence simply does not carry any meaning. What does carry meaning is that northern players attempting to play for the southern team is a reasonably recent phenomenon and one that the IFA must combat.

    “The IFA has sought to attack that using a ruling regarding Brazilians being given passports for Qatar solely to play football for that country, and often on a temporary basis. To do so both undermines the provisions of the GFA regarding nationality and is a huge misreading (of the nationalist mindset).”

    The IFA has sought to ensure that FIFA applies its rules consistently due to the increasingly aggressive attempts of the FAI to poach players from outside its territory. They are not infringing any part of the Good Friday Agreement, which does not have anything to say about football and does not provide people with a right to pick and choose institutions on the basis of their perceived identity, but rather undertakes to respect both the Irish and British identities within Northern Ireland. The IFA is not bound to attempt to read the nationalist mindset.
    “Again, done all this before too many times.”
    And yet you chose once again to raise the issue on a thread which was primarily concerned with events on the football field.

  • willowfield

    Until now, access to Irish citizenship has provided an unambiguous right to declare for the Republic’s football team if they so desire.

    I think it’s stretching it to say “unambiguous”, given the wranglings there have been and the less-than-forthright utterances from FIFA.

    WHat is the case, in my view, is that the current FIFA rules do allow Northerners to play for the South. I think the IFA has misunderstood the rules and, instead of seeking a modification to the rules to close the loophole, they have been counter-productively arguing for the current rules to be enforced.

    The IFA has sought to attack that using a ruling regarding Brazilians being given passports for Qatar solely to play football for that country, and often on a temporary basis. To do so both undermines the provisions of the GFA regarding nationality and is a huge misreading (of the nationalist mindset.

    I think that’s not quite accurate. The IFA is relying on a provision in respect of players “whose nationality entitles them to play for more than one team”. It happens to be appended to the ruling which is relevant to the Qatar situation, but it is not actually the Qatar situation on which the IFA relies.

    Also, the provisions of the GFA are not relevant, and nor is “reading the nationalist mindset”.

  • kensei

    You are wrong. Identity, nationality and citizenship are three different things.

    Yes. “Identity” and “nationality” are amorphous concepts; “citizenship” is a concrete legal construction. Citizenship is normally reflective of nationality though.

    You are wrong. It may be possible to ignore institutions, but it is also contrary to the principle of consent.

    It really isn’t. The PoC has no relation to which football team I wish to support, or whether I retain an Irish passport or a British one. It speaks solely to the governance of the six.

    That sentence simply does not carry any meaning. What does carry meaning is that northern players attempting to play for the southern team is a reasonably recent phenomenon and one that the IFA must combat.

    Actually, there have been examples going back a number of years; moreover the principle was unambiguous since year dot as it was a pure citizenship rule until very recently. The IFA are attempting to exploit changes for a different purpose for its own ends. It’s backfired badly.

    The IFA has sought to ensure that FIFA applies its rules consistently due to the increasingly aggressive attempts of the FAI to poach players from outside its territory.

    It should not attempt to get FIFA to apply rules for situations they were not designed for. Fortunately, FIFA has consistently agreed.

    They are not infringing any part of the Good Friday Agreement, which does not have anything to say about football and does not provide people with a right to pick and choose institutions on the basis of their perceived identity, but rather undertakes to respect both the Irish and British identities within Northern Ireland. The IFA is not bound to attempt to read the nationalist mindset.

    It is certainly contrary to the spirit of the GFA: it is also doing nothing for the IFA’s standing within Nationalism and is entirely counter productive.

    “Again, done all this before too many times.”
    And yet you chose once again to raise the issue on a thread which was primarily concerned with events on the football field.

    Nope, I responded to Charlie and made a passing point. You insisted on going through it again. Come back when FIFA changes its mind.

  • chewnic

    #Two legends of Northern Ireland football have said the time may be right for an all-Ireland team.

    Pat Jennings and Martin O’Neill were speaking at an event in Dublin to mark the last time an all-Ireland football team took to the field.

    In 1973 a ‘Shamrock Rovers XI’ took on world champions Brazil in Dublin.

    Aston Villa manager O’Neill told the Irish Examiner the political climate had changed and an all-Ireland team was now a “possibility”.

    However, he added: “I don’t know even at this stage if everyone would want it to happen.

    “From the playing viewpoint, you can imagine the possibilities. For instance, Northern Ireland went on to the 1982 World Cup and we actually played in the quarter-finals.

    It’s the bureaucracy involved in changing things that has always been the problem

    Pat Jennings

    “And can you imagine what our side would have been like then if it had included Frank Stapleton and Liam Brady? We would have been phenomenal.”

    Jennings, who played a record 119 times for Northern Ireland, told the Daily Mail an all-Ireland team would have a better chance of qualifying and going further in competitions.

    “You would have a better squad. If you have one or two injuries in key positions, none of us, north or south, could cope with that at the moment,” he said.

    Pat Jennings won 119 caps for Northern Ireland

    “It’s the bureaucracy involved in changing things that has always been the problem, and it’s a measure of the opposition there was to the (1973) fixture from the IFA that the team had to play under the guise of a Shamrock Rovers XI.”

  • willowfield

    Billy Liar

    As you are well aware, you made an very strong implication ( effectively an allegation) about me that was a lot more serious than anything I supposedly said about you – you know what I’m referring to.

    I’m afraid I don’t, Billy, you’ll have to enlighten me. I’ve no idea to what you’re referring. Spill the beans.

    I stated before that, since you are not prepared to apologise then neither am I, so it would be more sensible to move on.

    I am more than prepared to apologise if I have made erroneous or unfair statements. Indeed, I remember apologising to you last year sometime.

    Why are your apologies dependent upon your wholly inaccurate assumption about my unwillingness to apologise? Don’t you have sufficient integrity to admit when you are wrong – regardless of what others do?

    But let’s forget an apology for now: presumably you now accept that you told lies, even if you’re not prepared to apologise?

  • willowfield

    Hello? Where has Billy gone?

  • circles

    ‘Hello? Where has Billy gone? ‘

    err.. funny that he didn’t want to hang around and chew the fat with you, Willowfield.,,

  • willowfield

    He’s too embarrassed about his lies.

  • I’d imagine he’s tied up with his two (very different) high-powered jobs.

  • willowfield

    I heard he was a lion-tamer on Fridays.