“needlessly churlish”

The Times has called for the Monarch to be invited to visit the Republic of Ireland sooner rather than later and describes the linkage of a visit with policing and justice powers as ‘churlish’. It concludes:

It would indeed be desirable for Ulster to determine such arrangements locally but this is a complex issue and it does not help for a royal trip to be seen to be contingent on a result over a specified timetable. Announcing now that the Queen will be in Ireland next year would be a vote of confidence in the outcome of these negotiations. She should be seen in Dublin before Maundy Thursday 2009.

  • THE QUEEN IS CURRENTLY IN IRELAND

  • Ian

    From the Newsletter:

    “UUP leader Sir Reg Empey said she should “butt out” of an issue which “has nothing to do with the Republic”.”

    Another incisive insight from Empey there.
    The issue of the timing of when Liz Windsor should be invited to visit the Republic has “nothing to do with the Republic”!?

  • tienan

    Just heard from someone who was going to protest at her presence in Ireland today that they were stopped by Special Branch 15 miles from Armagh and threatened with immediate arrest if they entered Armagh.

    Political Policing alive and well

  • Todd

    What is Maundy?

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Tienan,

    “Just heard from someone who was going to protest at her presence in Ireland today that they were stopped by Special Branch 15 miles from Armagh and threatened with immediate arrest if they entered Armagh.”

    Liz or Macca?

  • tienan

    “Liz or Macca?”

    keep up CC – Liz/Lizzie/Elizabeth & the Phillie boy …

    Why would anyone be protesting the Irish President been in Ireland ?

  • tienan

    “being” doh

  • As President, I am lucky enough to meet individuals and groups from a variety of different sectors: community and voluntary, statutory, business, religious and political, and one of the key things that strikes me, no matter which group I’m talking to, or where we are, is the key role that education has played in getting us where we are today in Ireland, and the even-more-critical role it will play in positioning us where we aim to be in the coming years.

    Ireland, in general, and Northern Ireland, in particular, have had to become very accustomed to change of late. Change has always been part of our island’s history, but the scale and the pace of recent change has been quite unprecedented.”

    It seems that the President imagines herself to be the president of the ‘island of Ireland’. Has she permission from Gerry to portray herself as the ‘legitimate’ government’s head of state? 😉

  • “Why would anyone be protesting the Irish President been in Ireland ?”

    Why would anyone be protesting the Queen of the United Kingdom been [sic] in the United Kingdom?

    “Just heard from someone who was going to protest at her presence in Ireland today that they were stopped by Special Branch 15 miles from Armagh and threatened with immediate arrest if they entered Armagh.”

    Good. Unless they’re parishioners of the church she’s visiting it’s got bugger all to do with them.

  • cut the bull

    How would Philip cope in Dublin as it is a cosmopoliton muti racial city he’d be having nightmares. She may need to leave him at the palace.

  • George

    I assume there will be full normality between the Republic and GB when the GFA has been fully implemented.

    That situation will have come about when policing and justice powers have been devolved.

    Hardly an insurmountable hurdle. Until then the British leader will have to wait.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Tienan,

    “Why would anyone be protesting the Irish President been in Ireland?”

    Possibly for the same reason anyone would be protesting at the British head of state visiting any part of the British Isles?

  • Congal Claen

    Hi George,

    “I assume there will be full normality between the Republic and GB when the GFA has been fully implemented.”

    So, Ulster Scots will be implemented in the RoI?

    “Until then the British leader will have to wait.”

    Despite the Republic not fully implementing the GFA your head of state has been visiting here for years. Parity of esteem?

    Macca’s latest outburst is another reminder why sometimes an elected head of state isn’t as good an idea as the public first think – ye tend to get a politician. QE2 has been head of state for 60 years. She hasn’t made as many fekups in all that time as Macca as in her short “reign”. But then, what would I know. I am afterall a Nazi.

  • “full normality between the Republic and GB”

    A wee bit awkward, George, seeing that GB doesn’t have a government or a head of state 😉

  • Reader

    Ian: The issue of the timing of when Liz Windsor should be invited to visit the Republic has “nothing to do with the Republic”!?
    I expect he was talking about the devolution of P&J;. You might not have heard about that issue, if you live in the Republic. However, President McAleese has visited NI frequently, and will have heard about the problem. As Reg understands, but Mary doesn’t, it is entirely a matter for the NI Executive and Assembly to sort out.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “That situation will have come about when policing and justice powers have been devolved.”

    You’re too clever for that George- or at least I thought so.

    How one aspect of the internal affairs of the United Kingdom is administered is irrelevant to the constitutional relationship between the two states. This is crass bullypulpit comment from a woman patently unfit for the role given to her by the citizens of the state which elected her and who has diplomatic skills on a par with the nimble footwork of an elephant. Does noone in the Republic cringe when she steps outside her exceedingly limited comfort zone?

    Incidentally, I presume she remains a subject of Her Brittanic Majesty, unless she has renounced her British citizenship- as she is now fully entitled to do. She certainly was one when first elected pre 1998!

  • Oilifear

    “churlish” – word of the day for 20th March, 2008, although I note that it is not the Times that are struck by it but an undefined “many in Northern Ireland”. While I can see why this would be so, I’d side with the idea of a visit being the cherry on the cake. A genuine “return to normality” would be where these kinds of comments are not interpreted as tit-for-tat ultimatums.

    “Why would anyone be protesting the Irish President being in Ireland/Queen of the United Kingdom being in the United Kingdom?”

    Indeed. Seems strange to protest anyone with no substantial powers whose main job seems to be to talk to pensioners, say nice things about disabled kids and smell fresh paint.

    “It seems that the President imagines herself to be the president of the ‘island of Ireland’.”

    Strictly speaking, I don’t see where you read that into it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she did (as many do) – but do you really have a problem with a Belfast woman visiting and commenting on Northern Ireland, even if it is in her role as president of the Republic?

    “I assume there will be full normality between the Republic and GB when the GFA has been fully implemented.”

    There already is and there has been for decades now. The issue of normality is between Northern Ireland and the Republic/GB.

    “Unless they’re parishioners of the church she’s visiting it’s got bugger all to do with them.”

    So unless someone is Church of Ireland, the visit of the Queen has “bugger all to do with them”? Tish tish.

  • “but do you really have a problem with a Belfast woman visiting and commenting on Northern Ireland, even if it is in her role as president of the Republic?”

    None whatsoever, Oilifear.

    As President (of Ireland), … where we are today in Ireland, and the even-more-critical role it will play in positioning us where we aim to be in the coming years. … Ireland, in general, and Northern Ireland, in particular, …

    It’s not exactly subtle but then she’s sometimes been more garrulous than subtle.

  • Oilifear

    “So, Ulster Scots will be implemented in the RoI?”

    I believe it is being so under the Boord o Ulstèr-Scotch. Although, as I understand, while the southern counterparts for that body are enthusiastic about their role (and with funding and support coming from the relevant ministries in the ROI), the same mood is not enjoyed by the northern attendees of the Foras na Gaeilge (or relevant ministers of the Northern executive).

    Though why the fascination with the 10,000 or so speakers of Ulster Scots over and above the 90,000 speakers of Lallans and Doric varieties, I don’t know. As you ask, “Parity of esteem?”

  • George

    Congal,
    So, Ulster Scots will be implemented in the RoI?

    What do you mean?

  • George

    Darth,
    How one aspect of the internal affairs of the United Kingdom is administered is irrelevant to the constitutional relationship between the two states.

    I would assume it is relevant because of the constitutional implications of the GFA for the Republic. Seemed pretty obvious to me and nobody south of the border seems the slightest bit surprised.

    This is crass bullypulpit comment from a woman patently unfit for the role given to her by the citizens of the state which elected her and who has diplomatic skills on a par with the nimble footwork of an elephant.

    Actually, she was only repeating what Ahern said and I would be really surprised if she wasn’t actually advised to make this comment. This looks to be government policy rather than a McAleese solo run.

    Does noone in the Republic cringe when she steps outside her exceedingly limited comfort zone?

    She hasn’t in this instance, in my view.

  • overehere

    LOL Are you sure the Times was talking about The President and not about contributors to Slugger LOL

  • Congal Claen

    Hi George,

    “What do you mean?”

    As far as I understand it – based on rants by Lord Laird – NI and the RoI are supposed to use both these languages along with English on official documents. I think it’s a waste of money myself. But apparently it’s part of the agreement. Hence, my point…

  • Congal Claen

    “both these languages”

    Sorry… Gaelic and Ulster Scots

  • great craic

    Mary has really wound up them crazy british Irish people. It is great. A bit off topic but them British Irish in the North east corner of Ireland are going to have to get used to living in Ireland when the cost of heading to eng er land goes sky high because of carbon taxes.

    Also if the sea level does rise and a good deal of the North East coastline is eroded into the sea what will them crazy British Irish do then.

    Maybe someone in Landon could come up with some scheme to resettle them in Landon like they did for the Indian’s etc. That is off course if they can afford the carbon taxes.
    Alright gov !

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Darth

    George beat me to it. An Uachtarán was asked a question and merely reiterated government policy, as outlined by An Taoiseach in recent days. It’s not her policy, and indeed it would be constitutionally improper for a President to go on a solo run in opposition to the government line. I don’t see what else she could have said, under the circumstances.

    And yet Bertie Ahern did not suffer a fraction of the invective that is being heaped upon President McAleese for merely repeating what is government – not her own, but government – policy.

    One wonders whether there’s something quite personal going on here?

    How long before someone says, “you can take the girl out of Ardoyne…”?

    Beano

    “Good. Unless they’re parishioners of the church she’s visiting it’s got bugger all to do with them.”

    According to Tienan, his friends were told they’d be arrested if they entered ARMAGH. Not if they went to the cathedral, not if they breached the security cordon. No, if they entered the city at all.

    So if they’d driven into Armagh, parked up at the Shambles and gone into Devlin’s for a pint of plain, presumably Special Branch would’ve dragged them off to the barracks. And you think that’s all hunky dory?

    You think this somehow protects and preserves the dignity of your queen?

  • jaffa

    “Maybe someone in Landon could come up with some scheme to resettle them in Landon like they did for the Indian’s etc. That is off course if they can afford the carbon taxes.”

    I’d rather be 90 feet above sea level in Bangor than in the London’s basin.

    If the sea levels rise it’ll be the bogtrotters in Ireland’s low-lying (and no longer draining) middle trying to buy space in the higher-up land which rings our saucer-topographed island. The hills of North and West Belfast, the Antrim Plateau and Craigantlet may be hot property.

    Newtownards is f****d.

  • “So if they’d driven into Armagh, parked up at the Shambles and gone into Devlin’s for a pint of plain, presumably Special Branch would’ve dragged them off to the barracks.”

    The prevention of drink driving is a laudable aim.

  • Great Craic

    Ah Jaffa Gov I am selling bits of the reek at the moment. Derry to Kerry is up for grabs, all one has to do is show me ur Irish passport and then you can be resettled free of charge.

    Am afraid if no passport off to Landan matey.
    It would be wise for them British / Irish to make friends now before the water rises.
    And it is a rising, rising, rising ! LA woman going have to prove, LA woman, city of light !

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Great Craic,

    Good to see you’re using the auld Ulster Scots in yer moniker…

  • Great Craic

    Congal Claen, na tae bother sure I am fluent in all forms of Irish languages.
    The Scots Irish dialect I speak, some call it Ulster O Scots or to people with only an English tongue Ulster Scots is spoken around the Reek many a night.
    Hull Hull sticks for the reek!

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Great Craic,

    Ai. The auld drink tends to bring it out… Or maybe it’s just with the Tennents…

  • iluvni

    If the Republic of Ireland isnt prepared to invite nor welcome our Head of State to visit without preconditions, we can take it that no British citizen is welcome there.

    Cead mile failte….my arse.

  • Steve

    iluvni

    its funny you take such great offence at mrs windsor not having the red carpet rolled out.

    Youve probably been asking what the republic could do if justice wasnt devolved and here is your answer

    embarass the old bird and the unionists along with her

  • RepublicanStones

    Simple facts remain, while roughly one half of the population in the north is more than happy to see local girl done good President McAleese visit this part of Ireland, i doubt the ratio would be anywhere near that size for people clamouring to have meet Liz Windsor in the south. I know of no legislation aimed directly at limiting protestants currently in the Republic, but to my knowledge the anti-catholic legislation which ‘protects’ the anglo-german monarchy is till in place.
    A Queen…….anoited by god me bollocks !

  • iluvni

    Steve,
    I dont take any offence whatsoever. I simply see confirmed again that the Republic of Ireland remains a cold house for those of us who are British on the island. I wont lose any sleep though over it..nor will the Queen, I’d imagine.
    Good luck in with that united Ireland project, right enough. McAleese has moved the prospect of it back even further, I’d imagine.

  • AntiChrist

    There would be no churlishness if the recommendation of an earlier Times editorial had been carried out.

    “To banish the Celt from the banks of the Shannon” was how they put it.

    Times Past. But not forgotten.

    Fuck Off Times.