“That this Assembly condemns the murder of Mr Paul Quinn..”

The NI Assembly today debated a motion on the murder of Paul Quinn proposed by SDLP MLAs Dominic Bradley and Alex Atwood. BBC report here [RealPlayer file]. The transcript will be available tomorrow but for now the BBC report, and this UTV report, carries some of the quotes from the contributors. I’ll just add that Conor Murphy left the chamber after he had spoken and I don’t believe he returned for the vote. On that vote, no MLAs opposed the motion, but none of the SF members voiced their assent, and the Assembly therefore resolved

That this Assembly condemns the murder of Mr Paul Quinn; notes the clarification by the British and Irish Governments that they do not hold the view that the victim was involved in criminality of any kind; further notes the assessments of Sir Hugh Orde and the Independent Monitoring Commission regarding the involvement in this crime of persons who are current or former members of the Provisional IRA, or who have associations with members or former members of the Provisional IRA; and calls upon everyone to encourage people to come forward and assist the police investigations being carried out by the PSNI and an Garda Síochána.

Adds Transcript available via TheyWorkForYou.And from a UTV report

Mr Storey asked Deputy Speaker John Dallat: “Given that this Executive minister, we believe, has met with an outlawed, illegal terrorist organisation which is in direct opposition to the legitimate security forces of this state, and given that that minister in question knew that to be the case before he met with them, and given that he went to discuss with that illegal terrorist organisation their possible involvement in this brutal murder, can I ask you either for a ruling on the possible breach of the ministerial code and pledge of office and would you take this matter to the Speaker as a matter of urgency so that a full report can be given to the House on this particular matter?”

Mr Dallat told the DUP Assembly member his query had been noted and he had no doubt the Assembly Speaker would report back.

That would be in relation to these comments by the Northern Ireland Regional Development minister.

It’s worth noting, again, that Conor Murphy’s previous assessment still appears to contradict the clarification offered by Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, of his remarks, in a letter to the Quinn family.

However, [in the letter] Adams continued: “I note from some press reports that Paul’s father is reported as accusing me of ‘blackening’ your son’s name with allegations of criminality. I wish to assure you that at no point have I said anything which should be misconstrued in this way.”

Although, as I noted at the time, Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams’ statement from the 22 October, less than 48 hours after Paul Quinn was killed is, however, still there.

[Gerry Adams on 22 October] “I do not believe that there was any republican involvement in this murder.

“This murder is in our view linked to fuel smuggling involving criminals.”

Once again then, “It’s far better people tell the truth on the thing..”

Of course, that requires some clarity of vision..

And, as has been mentioned in connection to another recent event – “Justice is the glue that holds society together.”

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  • joeCanuck

    I watched the debate live. Two speakers, Basil McCrea? and David Ford, noting the absence of Mr. Murphy, offered to cede the floor to any member of SF who wished to withdraw or deny the criminality accusation.
    They both then paused for a number of seconds. Deafening silence both times. It was quite a telling moment for me.

  • joeCanuck

    Oh, and when Conor Murphy spoke, he didn’t address his accusation directly but said that he stood by his original assessment.

  • Mark McGregor

    The person most responsible for allegations of criminality that I’m aware of is journalist Jim Cusack (no friend of Sinn Féin). Though, I’m unaware of the Sindo ever being made to account for their accusations and this case is no different.

    Paul Quinn is also believed to have been the driver of a disguised lorry containing thousands of litres of laundered diesel which was set on fire at the side of the main Saintfield to Lisburn road on October 10 last.According to sources in south Armagh, the lorry had a flat tyre and Quinn, fearing his fingerprints would be found on it, decided to set it on fire and fled the scene.

    Maybe just one question of the Sindo and Cusack would be in order?

  • Twinbrook

    would the sdlp have tried to organise a campaign if the victim had been an innocent Protestant, killed by either loyalists, or Catholics killed by British collusion….

    Off course not, no political mileage there….

    The sdlp wouldn`t even meet the families of those killed through collusion….

    can`t wait for the next sdlp campaign ……

    Is it any wonder the sdlp are seen as hypocrites by the majority of Nationalists…..

    its sad that the south derry lackey party have to stoop as low as using a families grief for political gain…..

    gain that will get them no-where….

  • IRIA

    Was there any doubt that they WOULDN’T condemn the murder?

  • Mark McGregor

    Twinbrook,

    If you are going to troll can’t you even get the slabbering right? It’s the South Down and Londonderry Party.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Good old predictable Twinbrook. The SDLP aren’t the party with a record of collusion to defend. SF’s conduct over this murder has been nothing short of disgraceful and insulting towards the memory of Paul Quinn and the family of the poor man. SF should hang its head in shame.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Cast your mind back to when the British Army murdered Majella O’Hare and Seamus SDLP Mallon jumped in with both feet and agreed with the army statement that ‘gunmen’ had been operating in the area. Was that retracted? Conor Murphy’s statement indicates to me that this was a fallout among fuel smugglers and not an IRA operation. Is this incorrect?

  • Mark McGregor

    1967,

    And Jim Cusack? The man that put more accusations in the public domain than anyone else? How should he and the stable of papers he hails from hold their heads?

    Or is there no mileage in identifying Mr Quinn’s main accusers?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Firstly, the apalling death visited upon this young man should be condemned as the criminal act that it was, and all encouraged with any information to bring it to the relevant authorities in either jurisdiction as appropriate.

    Secondly, the wording of the motion was clearly crafted to ensure Sinn Fein could not support the motion.

    But the wording itself is interesting- taken, I presume, from the IMC assessment:

    “regarding the involvement in this crime of persons who are current or former members of the Provisional IRA, or who have associations with members or former members of the Provisional IRA”

    Now, stretching the list of suspects to those who may have “associated” with “former members” – or indeed “members”- of the IRA is a rather broad brush, given that, in an area like South Armagh, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll find any catholics who haven’t an association of some sort with ‘members’ or ‘former members’ of the IRA. Are Sinn Fein supposed to be accountable for those deemed ‘associates’ of ‘former members’ or indeed ‘members’ of the IRA?

    It reminds me of an article Squinter penned in the Andersonstown News some years back. When asked about the number of IRA volunteers he knew, his reply was along the lines of ‘forty- but that’s only in my street and round the corner.’ An exaggeration, but an accurate assessment of the prominent role of republicans in many communities, like west Belfast and south Armagh.

    Mark also raises the fact that a journalist with a track record of attacking Sinn Fein and republicans at every possible opportunity wrote at an early stage about the alleged criminal backdrop to this appalling murder; indeed, in their investigation into fuel laundering carried some weeks ago, RTE also referred to the alleged role of the victim in the activities.

  • Pete Baker

    Mark

    Cusack’s anonymous sources are probably put into perspective by the date-line on the report, October 28th 2007 – Six days after Gerry Adams’ original claims of a criminal background.

    And, importantly, 6 days after Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had first commented on the murder.

    I don’t, as a rule rely on Cusack’s reporting, and I didn’t on this either.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Pete, I repeat my question directly to you. Did Conor Murphy’s statement indicate that, in his opinon, this was a fallout between fuel smugglers and not an IRA operation? No more no less?

  • Pete Baker

    Pancho’s Horse

    Conor Murphy’s combined statements do seem to point to that conclusion.

    But I’ll refer you to Gerry Adams’ comments to the Quinn family

    However, [in the letter] Adams continued: “I note from some press reports that Paul’s father is reported as accusing me of ‘blackening’ your son’s name with allegations of criminality. I wish to assure you that at no point have I said anything which should be misconstrued in this way.”

    Who to believe..? If only there was some consistency..

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Maybe it’s the late hour or maybe it’s the drink, but I see no contradiction.Republicans do not see revenue evasion as criminality so GA does not accuse him of criminality and Conor Murphy’s statement stands.

  • joeCanuck

    Well there you are then. It was criminals wot done it. That totally exonerates the IRA since they don’t do criminality; in fact are constitutionally incapable of committing criminal acts.

    Someone please provide the relevant link.

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete,

    We agree on something, Jim Cusack doesn’t count as a source of credibility and I discount him, like you.

    I’m wondering why the Sindo and group isn’t being challenged over their very specific allegations around Quinn. No mileage?

  • Pete Baker

    Pancho’s Horse

    You appear to have missed the additional, earlier, comments by Gerry Adams – before his clarification.

    [Gerry Adams on 22 October] “I do not believe that there was any republican involvement in this murder.

    “This murder is in our view linked to fuel smuggling involving criminals.”

  • Pancho’s Horse

    The IRA are not constitutionally incapable of criminal acts just as the British Govt/Army are not incapable of same but statement says that criminals were involved in the murder, were linked to fuel smuggling and were not IRA. Is that not clear enough? The only thing that the IRA is incapable of is treason.

  • Pete Baker

    Mark

    Bertie was challenged on his comments at the time.

    Hence his proxy was not – especially since the proxy wasn’t referenced on Slugger.

    I’m not at all interested in fighting with phantoms. They’re only a distraction.

    Unlike those elected representatives..

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete,

    Another thing around accepting or not allegations of criminality – in 2005 Slugger ran many dozens of stories around allegations about Phil Flynn – mostly sourced from the Sindo, the same paper that claimed Mr Quinn was a criminal.

    Those on Slugger that ran those allegations of criminality haven’t managed to revisit the story once now that each and every one of the allegations has been rejected by investigators.

    Seems the Sindo tagging people as criminals only fits when it needs to.

  • joeCanuck

    Well, Pancho, that’s why I asked if anyone had the link.
    One of the leading SF figures was interviewed on TV 4 or 5 years ago. He said that, since the IRA were the constitutional government, nothing they did, such as robbing banks, could be considered to be a criminal act.
    Sorry, he did.

  • Damian O’Loan

    Chris Donnelly,

    “Secondly, the wording of the motion was clearly crafted to ensure Sinn Fein could not support the motion.”

    The amendment to the wording on the insistence of SF was, I thought, designed to ensure they could support it. And I note they didn’t vote against it, which makes me wonder if there wasn’t some level of internal disagreement.

    Let’s look at each part in turn.

    “That this Assembly condemns the murder of Mr Paul Quinn”

    I think they would have, arguably hypocritically, agreed to this alone. In any case they ought to, at the very least.

    “notes the clarification by the British and Irish Governments that they do not hold the view that the victim was involved in criminality of any kind”

    This is clearly intended to ascertain, despite the confusion between Gerry Adams’ comments in his letter to the Quinn family and Conor Murphy’s repeated allegations, the party position. From point 1, which I have yet to check on Hansard, it would seem that the party has gone with Murphy. They didn’t have to. They could have gone with the more senior member’s comments.

    “further notes the assessments of Sir Hugh Orde and the Independent Monitoring Commission regarding the involvement in this crime of persons who are current or former members of the Provisional IRA, or who have associations with members or former members of the Provisional IRA”

    I quite agree with your points on this. It seems unlikely that any criminal gang in South Armagh wouldn’t have the weakest of “associations”, itself a weak word, with PIRA. I therefore can’t see the problem in supporting this.

    “and calls upon everyone to encourage people to come forward and assist the police investigations being carried out by the PSNI and an Garda Síochána.”

    The party is obliged to agree to this. It places the DUP on thin ice, in my opinion, to accept its failure to support this and the first element of the motion. And these failings would appear to be the price SF are willing to pay to maintain the allegation that a criminal was murdered in this particular manner. Which makes me question their priorities, on a human level, and less importantly, their strategy, on a realpolitik level.

    Am I badly misinterpreting this?

  • Pete Baker

    I believe that you, once again, have blogging rights here on Slugger, Mark.

    So, if you feel that you have a sustainable argument on that – and I don’t recall linking to any particular articles on the Sindo about that myself – feel free to post it yourself.

    Otherwise it’s just another distraction from the actual topic here.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Joe Canuck, when I refer to criminal acts, I don’t mean robbing banks but criminal acts like gassing villages or blanket bombing. Surely you can see that liberating funds for the cause is not criminal.The Army Council is the de jure government of Ireland. Take it from there.It’s black and white. You accept that or you don’t. If you don’t, let’s change the subject.

  • joeCanuck

    “.. maybe it’s the drink …”

    Guess so.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Not coming down off the fence,then, Joe

  • Pancho’s Horse

    BTW I’m TT just got a massive fundamentalist Republican chip on both shoulders.

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete,

    Indeed I do. I blog what I think about and may follow it up. I hope I wouldn’t have such a level of moral cowardice that I’d blog for many months on a topic and ignore the rebuttal of every single one of my entries on the topic – thats what you and particularly Mick face over the Flynn story. Neither of you are willing to address it as yet. I sent Mick the list of Slugger links to the Flynn allegatioas, I stopped at about 20, you had a fair few of those links. I’m still waiting for any link to the actual facts – you know now that he is proven by the courts to be a clean man.

  • Pete Baker

    Follow it up then.. you have the ability to blog your argument here.. with itemised links, if necessary.

    Otherwise, as I’ve already said, it’s just another distraction from the actual topic here.

  • Mick Fealty

    Mark,

    Here’s an example of how they were reported at the time here on Slugger from the selection you sent me:

    “…If Flynn is implicated in any serious way (there’s no indication that he is at the moment)”

    “John Laird has been drawing attention to the silence of Bertie Ahern after his close association with Phil Flynn was became public in the wake of the robbery.”

    “…the letter also names Phil Flynn as a Director.. something that Daily Ireland denied after Flynn resigned from various boards following the disclosure of his connection to Chesterton Finance.”

    “The letter also describes former chairman of the Bank of Scotland (Ireland), Phil Flynn, who is a former vice-President of Sinn Fein, as a director of the newspaper. But the publisher of ‘Daily Ireland’ says this was “a mistake”.”

    “It pays to be cautious at times like these. What is not in any doubt, is that the Northern Bank was robbed in December. Arrests and police questioning do not equal convictions! Indeed, businessman Phil Flynn is having to play a vigorous rearguard action to deny his involvement in any number of scams. Those eager for an early denouement should be patient!”

    I could not see what your point was, when you sent me the story that Chesterton Finance has been given a clean bill of health by the Revenue Commissioners, except perhaps a lack of completion on one aspect of the original story. In the strictest sense, it should have been blogged. But then again, as Pete points out, this is a team blog.

    I’m hoping that hasn’t completely knocked the original thread off course.

  • booftr

    northern Standard Newspaper last week

    Patsy mc Ardle reported
    “Superintendent Heller disclosed that Gardai were awaiting the result of some forensic tests on items recovered in the course on the ongoing investigationwhich might assist the authorities in their probe….Detectives now believe some of those linked to the Quinn murder may have been associated with a major cross-border smuggling operation

  • shinner spinners

    The shinner soinners are out and about again trying to distract.Sinn/ira same thing we are not stupid you know connor.Their main british /ira hitman castrated stuck chisels in peoples eyes tortured and murdered innocent catholics for years.He as we now know was just one of dozens.Oh and the romper rooms in Patrick street in Newry and other towns scattered call across the north.Oh the torture the mental cruelty inflicted on the catholic community by sinn fein/ira. We that remember havnt gone away either you know. We just hope the you are like the now extinct holie oolie bird and that you just keep flying round and round in ever decreasing circles until you finaly disappear up your own holes.Alister Campbell was the death of spin forget it wont work. SINN FEINN THE PARTY FOR INFORMERS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

  • Reader

    Pancho’s Horse: Joe Canuck, when I refer to criminal acts, I don’t mean robbing banks but…
    What’s your position on threatening bank clerks with guns?
    What’s your position on taking their families hostage?
    What’s your position on shooting Garda officers?
    So what sort of bank robberies do you approve of, and who is allowed to carry them out?

  • Twinbrook

    Its now referred to as the south down lackey party…but then what would the T`internet warriors know about the REAL world!!

    When will the assembly be debating the stoops motions about collusion, about the loyalist feuds, about the murders of those children in North Belfast and Bangor?

    Never!

    Again this selective condemnation has already backfired on the stoops in Nationalist areas……

    Again.

    Will they ever learn!

    It must be a real sad and lonely time being the…..to paraphrase Little Britain.

    The…….Only supporter in the village!

  • Twinbrook

    don`t you just love to vain attempts by the sdlp`s press office above…..

    Can`t remember when the stoopies went into overdrive about loyalist and british state collusion….

    Thats right….completely forgot

    they refused to meet the Nationalist groups highlighing Collusion…didn`t even reply to the requests to meet these groups!

    Thats the stoopies for you…

    Always looking after themselves, his majesties self, King Marks self….

  • Rory

    So then, the elected assembly has condemned the murder of one of the citizens of the state.

    May I also then rush to put it on record, lest there be any doubt, that so do I.

    Indeed may I add that in general I tend to view murder of local citizenry as A BAD THING! And I am so glad that elected representatives have taken valuable time out to agree with me for once.

    While we are at it may I also place on record my firm belief in the catholicity of His Holiness the Pope and in the sylvan defecation habits of bears. Perhaps the Assembly will find time to reciprocate.

  • Twinbrook
  • Reader

    Rory: While we are at it may I also place on record my firm belief in the catholicity of His Holiness the Pope and in the sylvan defecation habits of bears. Perhaps the Assembly will find time to reciprocate.
    I think you may take it as read, though you might want to assume that SF will abstain, so as not to offend their rearguard

  • Jimmy

    All talk and piffle from the Stormont regime.The motion is simply a PR exercise to show how ‘Civilised’ the politicians are. We all know what will happen, a resolution is passed, nothing will be done because it will compromise the Power Sharing executive. Everyone knows the Chuckies were involved, this young mans death will be airbrushed out of History as usual, as others have been and sadly others in the future will also be, just to keep the Chuckle Brothers safe in thier positions.
    The motion is flawed in one respect, sadly the young man ‘was’ involved in Criminal activity and it was wrong of the SDLP to insist that he wasnt, it doesnt distract from the terrible death he recieved though, but that part of the motion is just political opportunism, not objective or balanced.

  • Red Diesel

    booftr, the Northern Standard piece of 31st January is a scandalous piece of malicious spinning which has the Garda incident room in Castleblayney spitting mails. it is a straightforward attempt to criminalise the Quinn family and their campaign group. the contention that certain well-known republicans are being accused but totally innocent of Paul’s murder is just laughable, as are attempts to resurrect the forensically aware diesel smugglers. There is no cross-border community group concerned with preventing escalation of trouble, just the same old provo troops doing what they do best. For the record, the notion in the piece that the threat to a witness of the murder was an invention of the Quinn Support Group is somewhat weakened by the fact that the existence of an official PSNI threat notice was confirmed by two Sinn Fein elected representatives.

    Jimmy, why do you repeat the slander that Paul was a criminal? How do you know. What exactly is the point of this, if in fact you are not trying to justify his murder or divert from its consequences? And how does it become political opportunism to quote the stated attitude of the Taoiseach?

    Twinbrook, do you actually know anything about this case? Have you anything to offer but foul abuse? I have a grandson the same age as Paul, in the same area. How can you be so vicious? Can you not at least concede that some good people have come to the aid of a family in grief and tried to help them in a quest for justice? Just because you may disagree politically with them, does this give you the right to abuse them?

  • green diesel

    RD – it’s not slander

    also – it’s common knowledge in the area what he got up to – not just stealing cars – maybe this will come out over time – who knows ?

    Did he deserve to die – NO

    sadly the SDLP are on a loser here

  • New Yorker

    The issue facing SF in the Assembly is are they in or out. Do they support only one lawful criminal justice system and actively support it or not? They have to prove their democratic credentials in the Quinn murder case. It’s up to them to decide now whether they are in or out, there is no middle ground, the time is for actions not empty words.

  • Young-boo2

    Twinbrook – if your so worried over the lack of action on behalf of the SDLP to collusion, remember its nothing compared to SF lack of action towards the collusion between themselves and the british forces.

    Maybe they can tell us how many innocent nationalist and un ionsit people they killed for no reason? maybe they can tell us how many young IRA were sent to thier death because of informers? mayb they can answer why they fought a 30 year “war” killing thousands of innocent people for an agreement they rejected, maybe they can tell us why the continued the war, when Gerry Adams amitted they wouldnt achieve anything through violence in the early 80s?

    maybe the can show so evidence that Paul Quinn was involved in crimes instead of sitting in silence look stupid??

  • Jimmy

    Re: New Yorker
    SF are definitely in, the problem is that there are so many ex Provos who are now ‘self employed’ moonlighting on the border and simply not under any obligation to any central leadership. After all the war is over there is nothing more to fight for and there is a living to be made, in the only way the freelancers know how.Ideology turned to Criminality.
    How can Sinn Fein be responsible for them or their actions?
    Unfortunately it is a drawback to the troubles that the main Republican movement can’t control. Republicans along the border are now a liability.
    Criminals falling out led to the death of Paul Quinn, the political hypocrisy and opportunism of the SDLP are astounding if they think any of the above is the responsibility of SF. What are they supposed to do?

  • Gullion Man

    Could I stop you all for a few minutes there are a few things i would like you all to know.

    I’d prefer not to use my real name for reasons that will become apparent, Quinnso was a friend of mine and I still miss him dearly, I was honoured to know him and proud to be called a friend.
    Many people accused Paul of being involved in criminality and that this involement resulted in his death, that language disgusts not only me and Pauls immediate family but the entire community where we live.
    To the filthy Sinn Fein mouth pieces that briefed the press about criminal involvement shame on you, to Connor Murphy you will see our peoples answer loud and clear when you open the boxes from our wards at the next election.

    We know this because we were the fools that hung those posters the clowns that canvassed those houses and the idiotsstole those votes in the earlier days before Sinn Fein got all respectful, well not any more we’ll be fools no more.

    Do I have a history of smuggling? well yes I have, but it nevered bothered you before, I have worked for myself and for others I have worked many times for “the slab” and you had no problems with that, it was our sweat and toil that paid for the republican movement when it had no arse in it’s trousers, we weren’t criminals then and we still aren’t.

    Sinn Fein claim that they want anyone with information about Pauls slaughter to come forward and help the Police on either sides of the border. Well if they really want that to happen why have the same disgusting little rats spent so much time making up false eveidence and leads to slow the investigation teams to a complete halt, at least 200 false leads so far FACT.

    Pauls killers were and still are members of the IRA, Murphy knows that for an unshakeable fact as do I, you can make you own mind up as to how we both know.

    So it’s bad enough that young Paul had his life taken, but I’ll be damned if i’ll let the readers of this site try and take his name and spit on it for the sake of a vote in a British election.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Twinbrook, do you have all your posts saved on a Notepad file ready for pasting or are you just inanely repetitive?

  • Twinbrook

    Not one comment in reply to Raymond McCords accusation of political bias…

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/article3447552.ece

    Again it seems that some families grief sad as it is, is less important if there are no political points to score…

    As to murder, I`ve openly condemned all without reservation unless someone can prove otherwise…

    I object to certain families being ignored, such as the families of those two men brutally murdered by the real ira in west Belfast last year or those children that were murdered in north Belfast or that young girl from Bangor! Why are there no debates for them, is their grief any less, is their search for justice not worthy enough!

    As to inane repetitive posts, sticks and stones and innuendo comes to mind…

    Why is the grief of one set of families not only used and abused but elevated above the deaths of everyone else…

    I think we all know the answer to that question….

    Political point scoring by the sdlp.

  • New Yorker

    Jimmy

    I’m well aware of the criminal activities of the provos in the border areas. BTW, why can’t they make a legitimate living like everybody else? There are regular jobs available but they choose criminal jobs. Many have a very expensive lifestyle that was not gained and is not supported by legal means. That will have to be dealt with but after the more important crimes, like the murder of Paul Quinn.

    SF are up to their necks with the provos. Why do you think that Adams and Conor Murphy went to their defense immediately when they could not have known the truth of their statements at the time. In fact, Murphy admitted he spoke to the provos, why? Why the shameful silence of SF yesterday in the Assembly?

    There would be no SF without the provos and whether there ever can be one without the other is still very much an open question. But the time to side up on the side of one legitimate criminal justice system is now. They need to come clean or be gone.

  • Damian O’Loan

    Twinbrook,

    For the sake of accuracy, check this link:

    http://www.birw.org/Report%202006/Mar%2006.html

    “No British government minister has ever agreed to meet Raymond McCord, although the SDLP did recently engineer and introduction for him to Secretary of State Peter Hain MP. The Police Ombudsman is due to publish a report on the murder of Raymond McCord, which is expected to be devastating.”

    The meeting at which Hain fell asleep. I believe that Alex Attwood and Raymond McCord worked at length together on the latter’s behalf, the former accompanying Mr McCord to meetings at PONI on several occasions.

    This is irrelevant, though, to the substance of this thread, and I question why you choose to focus on that aspect.

    With respect to the fact that Chris Donnelly has, I’m sure, other things to be getting on with, I notice my post has not been responded to either.

    May I repeat that I am not speaking on behalf of the SDLP, but as an individual who has some insight into your incorrect assertions.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Damian O’Loan: “This is irrelevant, though, to the substance of this thread, and I question why you choose to focus on that aspect. ”

    You shouldn’t… its a bit like arguments in the legal world.

    When one has the facts on their side, they will argue the facts.

    When one has the law on their side, they will argue the law.

    When one has neither the facts or the law on their side, then their only refuge is to pound their shoe on the table and blow smoke, hoping that others will lose the thread in the confusion.

    As for the rest — the argument that it was fuel smugglers and not Provos rests solely on the logical fallacy that there is no overlap between the two groups…

  • Truth seeker

    So O`loan I don`t speak for the SDLP, why haven`t the SDLP who you don`t speak for but seem to know a bit about, raised the issue of debates for the other murder victims? As has already been noted, no political mileage.

  • Damian O’Loan

    This is my final post, as it seems clear that it won’t be accepted that I can speak as an individual.

    Its my view that Alex Attwood has been campaigning for years on behalf of all the victims of collusion, between state and all paramilitaries, and paramilitary violence generally.

    Check the facts and you will find this to be the case. Not to claim some final word, but clearly we’re having different conversations, and I’m not comfortable continuing with your version.

    To get back to the point:

    “The party [SF] is obliged to agree to this [providing information to the investigations]. It places the DUP on thin ice, in my opinion, to accept its failure to support this and the first element of the motion [outright condemnation of the murder]. And these failings would appear to be the price SF are willing to pay to maintain the allegation that a criminal was murdered in this particular manner. Which makes me question their priorities, on a human level, and less importantly, their strategy, on a realpolitik level.”

  • Truth Seeker

    “Its my view that Alex Attwood has been campaigning for years on behalf of all the victims of collusion”

    Complete and utter rubbish. Ask any one associated with the Groups who have been dealing with and trying in vain to bring to light the British Governments, “dirty war” and those campaigning for plastic bullets to be banned, how they have been ignored by not only Attwood but by the SDLP.

    Don`t let facts or the truth get in the way of your ill conceivedideasor as some would say, pack of lies.

  • enda kenny

    Westminster yesterday

    From PMQs yesterday.

    Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): The Prime Minister will be aware that the horrific murder of Paul Quinn casts a serious shadow over the stability of devolved institutions in Northern Ireland. Serious allegations have been made about the involvement of current members of the Provisional IRA in that murder. Will the Prime Minister reiterate the commitment given that if any party—in this case, Sinn Fein—is found to be in default, he will not punish all the parties in Northern Ireland but ensure that devolution continues and that only the party in default is punished? It is absolutely vital to send a clear message to the people of Northern Ireland, who are growing increasingly concerned about the seriousness of the allegations.

    The Prime Minister: I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern that the Quinn murder should be properly investigated. I have reason to believe that that is exactly what is happening, and there is co-operation on both sides of the border for that to happen. There is no evidence that IRA people are involved, but of course that must be investigated in full. Once that is investigated, we will know the full results. I hope the hon. Gentleman would agree that no criminals should be allowed to derail a peace process that has the support of millions of people in Northern Ireland, which he and others have played a great part in moving forward, so let us send out a message that no criminals will be allowed to derail the peace process.

  • sceolaing

    I have just got a transcript of Tuesday’s debate in Stormont on Paul Quinn. An interesting piece, apart from Murphy’s cowardly walk out was John O’Dowd’s contribution during which he said” The Quinn murder has produced a set of circumstances that are not unique but that require a response because of their political implications, That is why Sinn Fein proposes an alternative view to that stated by the other parties.” Nothing to do with criminals, or proof, just a response to circumstances. He went on to accuse others of using the situation and then said, “Therefore, Sinn Fein, has submitted a scenario, or an option, that the killing might be related to something else.”
    This, for me, makes it clear that S.F. know well who killed Paul and are in panic mode and so inventing’scenarios’ and ‘options. in case the truth catches them out and impacts on their project!