“People who were associated with the IRA at some stage were certainly involved in that crime.”

As noted previously, the parents of Paul Quinn have met the Republic of Ireland’s Foriegn Affairs Minister, Dermot Ahern, to discuss the ongoing investigation and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s earlier comments. RTÉ radio talked to Paul’s father, Stephen Quinn [RealPlayer file], on what was said at the meeting, his wish for a further meeting with the Taoiseach, and what the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, and the NI Regional Development minister, Conor Murphy, have said. And, as he belatedly noted, Mark Devenport spoke to Chief Constable, Hugh Orde, about the murder, and other things, on Saturday’s Inside Politics. During the interview he restated that, “In our judgement, no evidence currently to say this was an authorised event”, [Not “corporately involved”? – Ed] but Hugh Orde also said [RealPlayer file 5mins in]

“I think everyone’s fairly clear on this. People who were associated with the IRA at some stage were certainly involved in that crime.”

It is “far better people tell the truth on the thing..” Adds RTÉ report.

, , , , ,

  • Irish Republican In America

    Lot of links and rambling to get at the same point everyone seems to have known for awhile.

    Justice needs to be served for the Quinn family.

  • T.Ruth

    Justice needs be done for all crime and especially when people are murdered by paramilitaries. We are not progressing rapidly enough in all matters related to Law and Order and Shoey Orde comes over as complacent and arrogant -like a police version of David Trimble. We need to let people in disadvantaged areas see that they will have a better deal and a better life and better conditions and that right soon. We need to get the scum and the drug dealers,extortionists and thugs into prison asap.
    We cannot afford to slip back into turning a blind eye to murder.We valso need to be unequivocal in condemenation of attacks on Orange halls and GAA clubs. We need to ensure foreign workers are treated with dignity and respect and not exploited-starting with those used to advertise the Belfast Telegraph at city cross roads. We are either up for a better future for all or we are part of the problem.
    T.Ruth

  • steve

    T.Ruth
    As usual there is little truth in what you posted. No where did Orde say that paramilitaires were involved infact he said the opposite. What he did say is that likely former paramilitaries were involved and I do not think anyone is disputing that.

    Funny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity

  • harry

    Funny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity

    yeah so everyone please shut about this.

    stop investigating it

    be a little like the dead man’s mp — dont bother with going to any meeting concerning the death of a constituent.

    thats the example, steve wants us to follow.

    problem is, steve, that loads of nationalists and republicans completely agree with the full investigation into this crime

  • oh yeah wtf

    and the same old ruc are harassing children at will all under the watch of mcguinness and co
    http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/PSNI-39The-thought-police39.3590230.jp

  • Comrade Stalin

    harry:

    Funny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity

    Yes, but we never heard elected politicians speaking publicly in an effort to blacken the names of the victims.

    yeah so everyone please shut about this.

    stop investigating it

    You might like to see a large group of sadistic psychopaths breaking every single bone in a young man’s body and getting away with it, but you can be assured that the rest of us do not. This problem will not go away. If you think it will, then go to hell.

    be a little like the dead man’s mp — dont bother with going to any meeting concerning the death of a constituent.

    You mean, do not support attempts by the family to get justice for the death of their loved one. Yes, that’s what our Conor is doing.

    problem is, steve, that loads of nationalists and republicans completely agree with the full investigation into this crime

    Except you. You’re just after saying that they should stop investigating it. Clearly you think that psychopaths who murder innocent people should be allowed to continue to do so. You are clearly very, very disturbed.

  • harry

    dont worry, oh yeah wtf….

    sf members* of the DPP riding white stallions of justice will come swiftly to this poor man’s aid.

    have faith in the toothless gums of the DPP.

    (*NB- caution, not all SF councillors will join when told to.)

    “**NB– some lady SF councillosr will get a damn good spanking for not doing what they are told. cheeky little madam)

  • harry

    comrade S.

    perhaps the sarcasm in my post above was not as obvious as i had hoped it was

  • Comrade Stalin

    No, your sarcasm wasn’t obvious at all.

  • New Yorker

    Do MPs and MLAs have any immunity from prosecution in either Northern Ireland or the Republic?

  • Pancho’s Horse

    I have read a lot these past few weeks about Sinn Féin ‘s attempts to blacken the young fellow’s name but only on Slugger. The only comment that I am aware of is Gerry Adams saying that it was more likely to be a fallout between diesel smugglers than a paramilitary beating.Have the rest of you been reading different papers or has this just ‘growed and growed’? It’s a long time since I felt such a flood of righteous anger. It should not have happened – end of story!

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    I doubt there is one person in NI who doesn’t want to see the scum who murdered Quinn locked up for life.
    However, why is it when a person is killed in a nationalist area, unionists immediately start ranting about whether this was ‘ordered’ by the IRA.
    Let’s face it, the IRA no longer exist as a single entity. As for the army council – if there is no army (ie: arms) then it is just a council – a group of moustachioed men sitting in a hotel room in Sligo.
    Woudln’t it be better for the likes of William McCrea, who made a half-assed attempt to be ‘concerned’ that the killing might have been ordered by central command, to campaign for the gunmen from his own party’s electorate to give up their weapons of death?
    Where were the ‘Not In My Name’ rallys after Jackie McDonald spoke about the ‘people’s guns’?
    All we got were welcomes of the UDA’s ‘positive step’.
    Can you remember any unionist welcoming the early commitments to decommissioning from the provos? Was the term ‘positive step’ ever used? Na…thought not.

  • Dewi

    “The only comment that I am aware of is Gerry Adams saying that it was more likely to be a fallout between diesel smugglers than a paramilitary beating”

    Conor Murphy made the accusation of criminality on the TV.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Tá go maith, Dewi. Change that to Gerry Adams/Conor Murphy. It doesn’t alter the case that much.

  • Turgon

    Pancho’s Horse
    “I have read a lot these past few weeks about Sinn Féin ‘s attempts to blacken the young fellow’s name but only on Slugger.”

    Well yes indeed there have been allegations about attempts to blacken Mr. Quinn’s name on slugger.

    Amongst them we have this offering from Mr. Chris Gaskin (a member of SF I believe?)

    “There are things which are public knowledge in South Armagh about this case but which as of yet have not entered the “public” sphere. They haven’t been put into the public domain because many would view it as an attempt to blacken the victims name or as some attempt at justification.

    Many of those who decry the lack of evidence about criminal activity would do well to be careful about what they wish for. ”
    6th December 10.43pm link here.

    Mr. Gaskin has also been busy commenting on Mr. Quinn’s alledged criminality on Balrog “Paul Quinn was involved in criminal activity, that’s a fact that most people are aware of.” Comments section of “Ulterior motives” blog at 2:51pm 28th November link here.

    I note, however, that Mr. Gaskin has gone away from this story. Were his contributions counter productive I wonder?

  • Dewi

    Popeth yn Iawn Pancho’s Horse. Just it all has to end – punishment beatings, shooting coppers, burning orange halls, drug dealing in the name of some principle or other.
    It’s the detail that’s important over the coming decades.
    Pete’s post on the economy illustrates that an “all island” economy is the common policy and that cross border trade is beginning to boom. Demographics are equalising and a peaceful persuasive route to a United Ireland is possible. Personal view is that now is the time for Army Council to disband and reconstitute as a Veterans’ Society with no links to Sinn Fein. Retire with honour and focus on regeneration and building cross-community links. Easier said than done I know.

  • Turgon

    Dewi,

    I enjoy your posts and always find what you say interesting even when I do not agree with it. This one, though, does stretch credulity a bit too far:-
    “Retire with honour and focus on regeneration and building cross-community links.”

    “Easier said tha done I know.” is an understatement of epic proportions on a number of levels.

  • dewi

    “Understatement of epic proportions.”
    I know – but it’s what’s required even it might seem a little difficult to achieve.
    Some of the economic progress (despite the headlines) quite astonishing. Lowest unemployment rate in the UK for instance. Convinced that:
    1) Economic focus.
    2) Zero tolerance of sectarian crime.
    3) Fierce attempts by Unionist community to somehow reduce intensity of 12th.
    Will together produce a sustainable peaceful future.
    My expectation is of a transformation in the Unionist view of a UI. But if that does not happen I am still convinced that huge progress has already been made and a dynamic peaceful society can be achieved (emphasis on dynamic in a cultural, political and economic sense).

  • Rubicon

    SF proclaim themselves to be “the only all Ireland party”. So …

    Have SF TD’s placed any question in the Dail requesting the Minister of Justice to reveal the progress made in this investigation? Why not? What questions have they asked instead?

    Has any SF MLA placed a motion to the Assembly to condemn this murder? Why not? What motions have they put instead?

    We can all draw our own conclusions from the above – but – it is becoming ever clearer that SF is loosing popularity in their heartland. It may not matter much – these ‘heartlands’ still re-elect the representatives of street thugs using the excuse of distrust in the instruments of criminal justice. Challenging questions arise …

    How can trust be built? Is such a project the responsibility of the people living in these ‘heartlands’ alone? If so, what is the state when – de facto – it doesn’t operate in certain areas? Is any attempt to build trust imponderable because it opens the state to SF propaganda? Is this a price worth paying?

    On a more immediate and practical matter – if these murderers are brought to justice it will be for a murder committed in the Republic of Ireland.

    What is the maximum penalty in the south for murder?
    What is the sentence remission in the south?
    On conviction, can the murderers be moved to the north? If so, is there a requirement that they serve the sentences laid by a southern court?
    In months the Criminal Justice Order eliminating automatic 50% remission will be on the statute books. Since this crime was committed before the Order becomes law – will they be eligible for automatic remission?
    If transferred north, will the murderers be tried for the crime of kidnapping (committed north of the border) and, if convicted, the sentences then added to their southern sentences – or will such sentences be “concurrent”?

    At the very least I hope these dozen or so enjoy their Christmas this year, visit Portlaoise for several years, get transferred north (as they surely will) to face the law with no automatic remission and then get kidnapping ADDED to their sentences.

    I’m dreaming of course. Nothing like this will happen. It’s not “who you know” that will determine what happens here but “what you know about who you know”.

    Here enters SF stage left. I could be proved wrong of course – still waiting ….

    We can all draw our own conclussions

  • parci

    Rubicon,
    someone studying law might be able to help with those questions.

    My query is this:
    I always took it as de facto that the South would join with the North, and it was the unionists that had to be persuaded.
    Based on what most people believe, though not as yet proven, I can’t imagine any southerner wanting to join up with county containing the murdering bastards of south armagh.

    So Ulster will be British for a long time, the thugs have seen to that, certainly until the problems of law and order are resolved in “Gods Country”.

    Its hard to imagine a worse set-back for unity than a) the murder b)the cover-up.

    If only true republicans in SF or the IRA could grasp this, they’d turn their real anger on the perpetrators and not SDLP or anyone else.

    If Slab was found swinging from a tree next week, yes it would be wrong ; but the anger would be understandable.

  • heck

    I just read Chris Gaskin’s comments on this site and all I can say is that it would be better if Chris stopped blogging for a while.

    I am more republican that most contributors to sluggerotoole and I was horrified by the brutal killing of Paul Quinn. Even if he was less that an ideal citizen he did not deserve such a brutal death and he leaves behind grieving parents and friends.

    If I knew anything (and I don’t) I would be reluctant to go to the PSNI but that doesn’t mean that I would support these activities. They have nothing to do with getting Britain out of Ireland and have more to do with people lining their own pockets. That is probably why people like former SF MLAs Jim Mcalister and Pat McNamee have led in supporting the family.

    I suspect groups of ex IRA volunteers have gone freelance and I hope someone in S Armagh brings them under control but, having said that, it would be better if republicans just kept quite and let the Quinn family mourn in peace .

    The only good thing from this the surge in concern for their fenian neighbours from Unionist politicians

  • Elephant’s never forget

    Now now you lot, stop laying into Chris.

    I am confident Chris is a man of his word, he is most definately not a member of Sinn Féin!

    Before the election Chris announced on no less a vehicle than sluggerotoole that if the sainted beard and its cronies signed up to policing he would resign his membership.

    I am confident he followed through on that???? (smirk)

  • j

    RTEs primetime last night certainly seemed to link the murder to fuel smuggling (at least implicitly).

  • red branch

    While all the emphasis so far has been on the Sinners, and rightly so, the hypocrisy of the DUP in this matter is amazing.

    the presures of office have really come home to paisley and Co and they have failed to act honourably.

    Their actions concern me because as they turn a blind eye to this, what will they ignore next?

    For years unionism has been accused of turning a blind eye to loyalism now they are ignoring any form of paramilitaries – some may see this as equality others may see it as progress. personally I see it as simple root in greed, power and position

  • Nevin

    Red Branch, apart from Spotlight, the BBC ‘political wing’ seems a bit reluctant to dig too deeply. For example, I passed my Ballee research – taken mostly from court reports and BBC interviews – and submitted it to Mark Devenport’s blog; it remains unpublished. The research clearly demonstrated that Paisley Junior was misleading the viewers, deliberately or otherwise. Perhaps the relationships between the political correspondents and the politicos are too close for the public good.

  • CTN

    Quinngate says it all about the provisional movement- a consistently dishonest, bungling shambles and a nasty one at that.

    The fact that they have gone backwards since McCartneygate after such a trouncing in the southern elections shows how disconnected the McGuinness/Adams autocracy really are…

  • I’m not saying Paul Quinn was involved in smuggling, but if he was – shit, I mean he was from Cullyhanna. Probably a numerical majority of the population of Cullyhanna have been involved in smuggling and that’s the way it has been since a border was put in place for them to smuggle across. Technically, if Paul was involved in a bit of low level smuggling, then that might make him a ‘criminal’, but that isn’t the word most people in South Armagh would use, and the reality is a world a way from the violence and thuggery Gerry Adams and Conor Murphy were trying to conjure up by using the word ‘criminal’.

    And the idea that Paul was some sort of big shot organised crime Tony Soprano type character is just silly. Look at the facts. Paul Quinn was a casual labourer and truck driver who lived with his parents. On a Saturday evening, Paul dropped what he was doing to take up a job offer baling hay (on a Saturday evening) for a few quid. He borrowed five cigarettes from his sister and promised to pay her back for them later, when he had a few quid. Big time criminal? Be serious. They must have been thinking about Slab Murphy: “A good man and a good republican.”, G. Adams.

    Murphy hasn’t dirtied himself too much yet – he’s just got his brother and other prominent South Armagh Shinners to do the dirty work for him. I hope there are enough people in Sinn Féin with decency and long-term political sense to start asking questions about all this. But the lesson of the McCartney case is that the Shinners close ranks and those who disapprove see, hear and speak no evil. I don’t think this has become an NI-wide problem for the Shinners yet, but it is a problem in Cross and Cullyhanna. I don’t think doing a three monkeys trick is really an option.

    I take the point that some Unionists who couldn’t give a fuck about what happened to some fenian from South Armagh – like Laird, McCrea and Allister – are trying to use this murder for political reasons. But the bulk of unionism is ducking for cover and trying to pretend this didn’t happen, as it undermines their current political project. And none of this as any relevance to the fact that Paul Quinn should not have been murdered and his killers must be put behind bars.

  • CTN

    Well said Sammy.

    It beggars belief that Adams breached his usual pr caution to slur this wee lad as a crim before he was cold in his grave, then again he has been slippin since his Primetime flop in May.

    No matter who was responsible Grizz should have kept mum and stated he was checking out the various different stories which were unfolding at the time rather than this lemming like rush over the edge to unload into Paul’s right to a good character.

    Such imbecility has only strengthened the family’s will to expose SF’s shortcomings and enlarged the campaign.

    As MF puts it so well “damaging SF’s brand”.

    The provo machine now seems to just lurch from 1 self inflicted crisis to another….

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    This from Irish Times, have I missed the takover of the occupied territories?

    Dermot Ahern said he was encouraged at the co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda in the murder investigation. “I very much welcome the fact that the PSNI and the Garda are working hand-in-hand,” he said.

    “It’s an incredible change to see gardaí knocking doors in Cullyhanna and Crossmaglen to try to get some evidence about this in conjuction with the PSNI. It is vital that people come forward and give evidence. For too long the people of Cullyhanna and this area have suffered under the yoke of paramilitarism.”

    WTF?

  • Ulster’s my homeland

    it was the semi-dissident Republicans who done it!

  • j

    sammy mcnally – gardai called at my door in cullyhanna – PSNI were with them but they stayed in cars.

    Sammy Morse – RTE primetime certainly implied last night that he was murdered because of fuel smuggling.

    for the record, I dont believe that to be the case but it is a crucial issue.

  • CTN

    j are you referring to a faceless hooded figure quoting “fuel smuggling is run on military discipline- if ya mess up your dead” as your sole reference to this matter or something more detailed in the program?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    J,

    When did the Gardai start operating in the North?
    If this was announced I obviously missed it. Can’t believe something of this ‘constitutional’ significance was just snook in?

    What about the reverse – PSNI down South?

  • j

    CTN – the programme was about fuel smuggling and his case was specifically mentioned. If it was nothing to do with smuggling (as his family and others including me believe) why mention it at all?

    Sammy McNally – doesnt this sort of thing happen all the time? Did UK officers not travel to spain for madeline mccann (for example?)

  • CTN

    From what I seen in the program RTE did not stipulate he was a fuel smuggler murdered by fuel smugglers.

  • j

    Perhaps not CTN but that is the impression given when you put a picture of him on the tv on a programme about fuel smuggling amongst references during the programme about what happens to those who step of line.

  • CTN

    I didn’t get that picture and don’t believe RTE tried to blame anyone in particular.

    This murder case is ongoing with no-one charged yet fuel smugglers or provos.

    One line from SF is that it was fuel smuggling related which gave RTE an angle for reference purposes…

  • Turgon

    Going back a little to Red Branch and Sammy Morse’s comments.

    The behaviour of the DUP is nauseating here. This idea of “not centrally ordered” and no “corporate responsibility” is utterly ludicrous. I doubt if every member of the IRA army council knew about Enniskillen before it appened. There are certainly suggestions that Adams himself was not that happy about Kingsmills. Yet at the time the DUP did not suggest that the IRA were not corporately responsible.

    What is happening here is as Sammy Morse suggests; is that the DUP are keeping their heads down and wishing this problem would go away. They do make periodic hard sounding statements but actions seem limited. Yes of course they claim they would pull out of the executive if the IRA were corporately responsible but it looks as though a combination of SF, the DUP, the two governments and indeed the PSNI and Gardai will ensure that even if by some chance members of the IRA are convicted of this crime there will have been no corporate responsibility and so the love in can go on.

    There are plenty of reasons why unionists should highlight this murder.

    I regard any death of anyone as a tragedy. This was clearly an avoidable death and was clearly planned and perpetrated (ie it was murder). In my view we should dismiss no one’s death lightly let alone a murder.

    Secondly if we want to create a proper democratic society here we cannot have a gang of twenty or so people involved in a murder plot and dismiss it. Unionists want the whole of Northern Ireland to be ruled properly. As such we cannot have mob rule in parts of it whether they be parts of Belfast ruled by loyalist gangs or South Armagh ruled by IRA gangs.

    The fact that SF, the DUP and the governments may not want to rock the boat on this should not stop people demanding something be done about this. Quite rightly the SDLP are helping the Quinn family and making a fuss. For the Alliance party also it is appropriate but no less so for certain members of the UUP or TUV. We all have a stake in trying to make this a normal society. If that damages “the process” it merely shows that it is a house built upon the sand.

  • CTN

    Its a funny old peace- but quite rightfully many aren’t laughing…

  • CTN

    Of for din dins and won’t be back- Toodle Pip!

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    J,
    re. the UK police – this was a one-off event and I dont suppose they were going door to door. Interesting to know what the terms of this joint operation – which would imagine would have enormous symbolic significance to some in the North. Hopefully its the will be become commonplace – Falls Road Next – perhaps not the Shankill for a while yet.

    Turgon,
    It is an important distinction between ‘corporate’ and ‘individual’ responsibility. After all you presumably probably dont think the British army is repsonsible for murder in Iraq because a few squaddies drowned some Iraqis? The problem here is that SF behaviour (particulalry Murphy’s dreadful statements) seems to actually suggest a degree of corporate responsiblity. SF are not stupid and there inappropriate response looks like it is as a result of having soemthing serious to hide.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Has anybody mentioned yet that the perpetrators were Catholics or ex-Catholics or associated with Catholics? If there is no IRA, then there can be no IRA involvement. Stands to sense.

  • Turgon

    Sammy,
    Actually you and I are closer on this than you think. Yes I agree that an IRA man could murder someone as an individual and not a corporate issue. What I cannot accept is that 20 or so people arranged to murder this unfortunate young man in South Armagh, coordinate and perpetrate it; and it was not a “corporate” act. Furthermore as you rightly say the behaviour of SF has been very odd for this to have been a “non corporate” act. In that I may not be a million miles away from your position.

  • lib2016

    The war has been over for more than a decade and the IRA has been struggling with relative success to keep it’s wilder members and ex-members from reoffending yet our unionist friends still want to keep on fighting.

    Well the British, I mean the real British, tried that tactic in 1955 when the Germans and the French were building the Iron and Steel Thingummy. Now the British sneak in late to meetings and hope nobody laughs at them. Wonder why the unionists think it’s a good idea to fight the last war?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Lib2016.

    Nobody is expecting SF to keep their ex members in line. They are expecting SF to completely distance themselves from those individuals
    whose activities are criminal and running against the interests of the community they fought their ‘war’ on behalf of. The SF leadership have turned in a shocker. They will deservedly get their arses kicked electorally north and south unless they sort out this mess.

  • lib2016

    You may be right but it is equally hard to see the SDLP making a comeback. The people will decide, just as they should.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Is it worth stating again that the IRA and Sinn Féin are not one and the same? Read your history. Just because there was a massive overlap between the UDR and UDA/UVF, it doesn’t mean they were one and the same …….. or does it?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Pancho’s Horse

    Grizzly & McGuinness – the top 2 in SF were/are on the army council. Grizzly pretending that he wore a black beret as a fashion statement when he were a lad is about as convincing as those quare fellahs saying they were on a botany trip in Colombia or Conor trying to convince us that Paul Quinn was a major criminal.

    Just because something happens on the Republican side of the fence does not mean it has to have a mirror image on the Unionist/Loayalist side – there is clearly a qualitative difference in these relationships. The ‘insurgency’ ( political and military ) played by totally different rules to Unionists who with the full weight of the state behind them did not need to indulge in this subterfuge.

  • Steve

    what done it

    so that means wee ian was a paramilitary goon as well…. because he wore the hat?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Steve,

    as stated earlier

    “Just because something happens on the Republican side of the fence does not mean it has to have a mirror image on the Unionist/Loayalist side”

    This is such a sound principle that it also holds in relation to headgear.

  • steve

    What done it

    But wee Ian was clearly photographed parading the troops in the appropriate head gear, he was known to be one of the founders of said organization and it is known that they imported hundreds of guns into nIreland. It would seem to me the evidence for wee ian being a paramilitary goon is far higher than any evidence for Adams.

    The only evidence for Adams is heresay of disgruntled republicans, the fact that he runs a companion organization and the fact he owns a beret. Not exactly compelling

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Sammy, you are talking like an article out of the Sunday World. I mix and mingle with Republicans and I’m amazed how you know so much more than me about who’s who on the Army council, etc etc.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Pancho’s Horse, Steve,

    Not sure what the reasons (but presumably legal) why Grizzly keeps up the pretence of always having been a civilian with a penchant funny hats. I dont really think it is an issue any more – apart from him sounding silly. SF need to move away from the idea that if there is no actual proof of something e.g.that Provos at some level had a hand in the killing of Paul Quinn, or Grizzly was on the army council that the good people of Ireland cannot reach their own conclusions in interpeting the facts. They can do this in exactly the same way as they interpeted many dodgy inministry of defence statements during the ‘war’.

    It is really a question of credibility, and in relation to the issues in the above paragraph that is very low indeed. Without the cover of fighting a war SF have to learn that they will have to compete with everyone else in a convincing way to get their views across. Recently ( in relation to Quinn murder in particular) they have made a complete pigs Mickey out of doing this.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Sammy, if the Provisional Alliance actually increase or hold their vote next time round, will you say the plain people are stupid/have been hoodwinked or are afraid to vote any different? Of course if the vote collapses, then you and your fellow seers will have been right.

  • steve

    What done it

    Again What Facts?

    The only facts in evidence are what some people want to believe.

    There is not so much as quote from anyone of any real authority categorically stating that the provos were involved!

    But dont let facts, or the lack there of, stop you from leaping to conclusions.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Pancho’s Horse,

    “will you say the plain people are stupid/have been hoodwinked or are afraid to vote any different?”

    No but I will be suprised.

    I hope, however they take account of the naitonalist/republican disaffection about their current stance on the Quinn killing.