“We cannot allow this to be brushed under the carpet..”

With Lord Laird reportedly about to name those he believes to be responsible for the killing of Paul Quinn, under parliamentary privilege in the House of Lords, the BBC have reported that the IMC have said that they believe current and former members of the Provisional IRA may have been responsible but it was “too early to say if it was authorised by the IRA leadership” – and here’s a reminder of some of the earlier political reaction. From the BBC report

“The IRA Army Council did not sanction the killing, but IRA members did kill Paul,” said Lord Laird at the weekend. “I will name names and lay-out all the information I have. We cannot allow this to be brushed under the carpet like Robert McCartney, the Northern Bank and Denis Donaldson. I am not just getting at Sinn Fein, but the security services, the government, the lot. I am deeply concerned at what appears to be a lack of progress by the security services on both sides of the border.”

Adds In a statement on the SF website, the NI Regional Development Minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy, MP, MLA – who has stated that “[He does] not believe that there is any republican involvement in this murder.” – “has dismissed the comments of John Grieve and Lord Laird as wholly political and utterly devoid of fact.” Adds It’s reported that Lord Laird has followed through on his promise. And That report is confirmed by Hansard. [permalink added]Lord Laird, under parliamentary privilege, told the House of Lords [permalink added]

“One of the most serious incidents has too many shades of the past for us all: the brutal murder of Paul Quinn. It resulted from a dispute between Paul and a son of Vincent Traynor, a local IRA chief. Paul Quinn and some other youths from the area were involved in activities that did not go down well with the senior republican leadership in South Armagh, especially as this new breed of republicans is defying the leadership. It is now quite clear that Vincent had oversold the case against Paul.

Several weeks ago Traynor asked the republican leadership, including Peter and Patrick Quinn from Bog Road—no relations—who run most of the illegal fuel laundering plants in South Armagh for the IRA, to have Quinn executed. After consultation with PJ Carragher and his son Michael, the well known murderous sniper, Thomas “Slab” Murphy, the Provisionals’ commander in the area, Sean Gerard Hughes, known as “the Surgeon”, and James McArdle, permission for the execution was given. Almost 20 republicans were present at the murder as executioners, lookouts, drivers and so on. The eight or nine who conducted the execution were dressed in boiler suits and wore surgical gloves. All were IRA or former IRA members. It took almost half an hour for Paul to die. Every major bone in his body was broken. During the execution he cried for mercy.

Following the murder and the outcry from all parts, a meeting took place in Cullyhanna on Friday 2 November. Although “Slab” Murphy did not attend, a trusted lieutenant was there to speak on his behalf. To quell local discontent, and under pressure from the top, “Slab” offered to put a large amount of cash into the Cullyhanna area in the hope that buying people off with blood money would stop a rift between republicans in South Armagh. The involvement of the republican leadership in South Armagh in the planning, commission and now cover-up of this murder means that it is directly implicated. “Slab” also ordered that no one in the community was to speak to the Garda or PSNI. He was taking full responsibility for the incident because his close associates were involved.

Having felt that they had to blame someone, on 9 November, Friday night past, six armed IRA men went to the home of Vincent Traynor and forced their way in, but Vincent was not there. For the past week Vincent Traynor has been guarded by the police quick reaction force based at Crossmaglen and Newtownhamilton PSNI barracks. Responding to the visit, the QRF was at his house in a matter of minutes, but the IRA gang had gone. Vincent Traynor is now considered to be number one on the IRA hit list because he talked the leadership in South Armagh into the situation that saw the brutal and savage murder of Paul Quinn.

The blame for the murder and the subsequent situation has to lie with the IRA. The IRA veterans of South Armagh want to bring into line the young republicans of the area who are openly defying the leadership. Given those activities, “Slab” Murphy should have his bail in the Republic revoked, as he is now involved in the intimidation of witnesses. At his next court appearance, he should be held in custody while papers for his extradition to Northern Ireland are prepared.

Extreme republicans close to the IRA Army Council are trying to suggest that Paul Quinn’s family is being manipulated to create anti-Sinn Fein propaganda. This is not so. I have been contacted by a number of people and groups from the area who would not normally consider me as a friend asking that the police remove and prosecute those involved, and get them off the streets.

To clarify the situation, if any charges as a result of this murder are brought before the Irish courts, I have not influenced a potential jury by my remarks. It must be remembered that any court without a jury would be a special court. Both Governments need to deal with this type of criminal activity. To brush it under the carpet, as seems to many to be taking place, is just a short-term solution. The island of Ireland will never be at peace until illegal activities are tackled in full and equality is in total operation.”

, , , ,

  • I would be VERY surprised if anything as forthright as this appears in the next IMC report. There will be no end of pressure from the DUPes and the government to jump on anything like this coming out.

  • Pete Baker


    The IMC did hold a press conference today on this issue.. I’m waiting to see what’s published online.

  • A lot can happen in the time between a press conference and an IMC report. Expect the governments to be applying pressure- it’s up to the IMC to decide whether it will indeed remain independent, or roll over.

  • kensei

    There really should be some Parliamentary rules introduced on this, it’s an abuse of Parliamentary Privilege, and in an unelected chamber at that.

  • Garibaldy

    Surely it’s only an issue if the current or former members were acting under orders? If not, then it’s a criminal gang with better training than other criminals. As opposed to a bunch of terrorists.

  • nmc

    then it’s a criminal gang with better training than other criminals

    Exactly right. However depressingly predictable responses from the various factions will use this issue for their own purposes. For some they will be looked on as thugs/criminals who killed this man for financial gain, for others it will be the PIRA and Stormont should be closed down. Again.

    I predict the DUP to be the first to accept this as a criminal, non-sanctioned act by ex-IRA men, whether they believe it or not. I suggest that they don’t care and never did.

  • parci

    “I’m waiting to see what’s published online”
    I would suggest that the last thing on your mind is waiting to see what is published, or indeed what the Lord has to say. Hence this untimely post !

  • overhere

    I find it touching that Laird Laird is so concerned about this.

    I wonder if this will entail Laird Laird attending lots of meetings with various government departments and of course the odd taxi ride!!

    WEll if it wasn’t for this you would not realise Laird Laird was still alive, after all there has been nothing going on in N.I since devolution that he would feel qualified to talk about.

    Cynical me…….. not a bit of it

  • Disgusted


    Thats a particularly tasteless comment given that Lord Laird has been very ill and was recovering for the last year or so.

  • gum

    Does anyone think that Lord Laird would be taking such a principled stance if the Ulster Unionists’ electoral fortunes were different and it was they that shared power with SF and not the DUP?

    This was another barbaric killing by men who think they can rule the border regions anyway they like. It is not political in any sense – just pure gangsterism. While the media have portrayed Paul Quinn as yet anothher saint murdered by IRA thugs, this was another ugly dispute between greedy people. Suspending govt at Stormont is not the answer – concerted action by both police forces and pressure from all parties on both sides of the bborder is what is required to root it out.

  • “the media have portrayed Paul Quinn as yet anothher saint”

    I must have missed that as I’ve only seen him portrayed as someone who was brutally murdered.

  • Slieve Gullion

    Lord Laird can only do harm, because someone will walk from a courthouse waving his statement as proof that they can’t get a fair trial. Laird is motivated by the worst kind of political point-scoring, trying to embarrass the DUP. No one in South Armagh seriously believes this murder was sanctioned at top Provo level – in fact no one believes the Provo gang even meant to kill Paul Quinn – and there need be no threat to the power-sharing Executive from its investigation. But the Sinn Fein knee-jerk response that ‘no republicans were involved’ is simply farcical, and their ill-conceived attempt at spin may in itself pose a threat to political co-operation. Because now, their quite unnecessary lies about Paul Quinn will be found out. Gerry Adams returned to the fray at Edentubber with talk about criminal elements and political exploitation of the murder. But he can’t suppress the truth that the family know the truth about the people Paul fell out with, their threats and the attempt to exile him. if no republicans were involved, why are they so intent on attacking the family and protecting the murderers? Why not just say let the law take its course no matter who is involved?

  • Shawn

    If the Lord is so confident in his knowledge why does he need parliamentary priledge

    It wouldnt be because he doesnt relly know anything just what the rumours say so he has to be a coward and not put his money where his mouth is

  • Gum

    Dont get me wrong Beano – it was a brutal killing, really revolting. He was also a partner of the gangsters who killed him. My point is thatthe rush to find another “Stormont crisis” story overlooks facts. I hope that all 15 (or whatever number) of the men who killed him are jailed but this was a not a political crime and there is no reason why it should derail good work at Stormont.

  • dewi

    When is his statement due anyone ?

  • Red Diesel

    gum, that was a nasty piece of work. What was greedy about Paul Quinn? Nobody has claimed he was a saint, he drove a lorry for 50 quid a day when he could get the work. He was tricked into going to the hayshed by the chance of a day’s work. Do you know how this supposed diesel king got there? In a beat-up old Carina diesel, and he had to siphon a couple of pints of diesel out of his father’s tractor to get there. There is only one group of criminals involved here, the ones who battered him to death. Nothing has hurt the family as much as the criminality spin, which is absolutely groundless. it took a 20-man operation to get him, a fully boiler-suited, forensically aware operation run under a clear command structure. Some of the recent reporting, particularly in the Sunday Tribune, is extremely accurate and the Garda Siochana have pieced together the identities of most of the team on the ground and the main elements in the South Armagh command structure. The Provos wore gloves, but their fingerprints are all over this, from the original threat to the clean-up in the shed and the political cover-up that kicked in immediately with lies about Paul Quinn and political character assassination about Jim McAllister, whose every word was agreed by the family.

  • gum

    Red Diesal –

    I was under the impression that he has been a part of smuggling in the area. That’s what I heard in the initial report of the incident but seems to be disputed by most reports since. If I was misinformed I stand corrected. I was disgusted by the killing, was shocked at what Quinn had to endure and feel very sorry for his family. My point was I feel that its being used to derail progress at Stormont – if frustration at political point scoring caused me to be insufficiently careful in my post I apologise.

  • heck

    I have heard that republicans Pat McNamee (and Jim Mcallister (former SF MLA’s from Crossmaglen) are going to point the finger at the IRA. Is that correct?

  • TUV

    “No one in South Armagh seriously believes this murder was sanctioned at top Provo level – in fact no one believes the Provo gang even meant to kill Paul Quinn – and there need be no threat to the power-sharing Executive from its investigation. But the Sinn Fein knee-jerk response that ‘no republicans were involved’ is simply farcical, and their ill-conceived attempt at spin may in itself pose a threat to political co-operation.”

    Spot the DUP party hack already spinning.

  • The Penguin

    “And let’s not miss another vital point in the movable feast that passes for morality here, even if this young fella had been up to his arse in fuel smuggling, diesel laundering and whatever else, no one had the right to kill him – period.”

    Something I posted on another thread, but always worth bearing in mind.

    The Lord Laird thing, incidentally, stinks to high heaven of political exploitation of the worst kind.
    When did a unionist MP or Lord ever use parliamenatry privilege to name loyalist terrorists, even those murdering their own people?
    Never, never, never!

  • Outstanding in my field

    The Intervention by the IMC – why?????

    Laird you can understand but journo’s based here didn’t even know there was an IMC press conference until Grieve popped up on the BBC.

    It is difficult to disentangle everything – some say it was in S Armagh so it must be the provos – others say he was involved will fuel smugglers so it must of been them.

    Surely the issue of this threat is just how many people want to take this dreadful death to beat up (pun intended) on Sinn F̩in Рsurely what we really want is for some convictions.

  • harry

    as i said before,

    republicans are explaining this awyd in the area as paul quinn be a “bad wee bastard”

    once by a well known apolgist for IRA in the area and once by a person i belive to be well connected the republican movement.

    regardless of politcal outcomes, the killers of quinn should be revealed. the people of south armagh already know it was the RA.

  • michael

    I think the IMC’s next report will be a lot let interesting than Lord Laird’s speech. It is easy to rant under privilage but it is a differnet thing to issue a supposedly accurate and impartial report, although that never seems to have bothered the IMC in the past.
    The IMC were never an ‘independent’ body and were flawed from the outset. They continue to trot out the line the British government and the NIO feed them.
    They have never had any investigative powers and their inforamtion seems to be base on what they have learned from regional newspapers and briefings from the NIO mandarins.
    I doubt the Quin case will be mentioned in anything but general terms in the next IMC report.

  • agh

    ‘In a statement on the SF website, the NI Regional Development Minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy, MP, MLA – who has stated that “[He does] not believe that there is any republican involvement in this murder.” – “has dismissed the comments of John Grieve and Lord Laird as wholly political and utterly devoid of fact.” ‘

    Brilliant! A MP and MEP, no less, stating that there was no republican involvment! Now we all know SF have their own definition of a ‘crime’ and whats ‘not a crime’. Is there to be a defintion of a ‘republican’ and ‘not a republican’??

    I think SF should forget about the Irish language, but invest some cash on distributing some kind of english to SF translational resource so we can make head or tail of what they are on about?

    Does anyone actually believe any of the stuff that comes out of this guys mouth – ‘no republican involvement’ – sheesh, do people not get fed up of these lies?

  • 0b101010

    Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? Seems to me that, without going to the cops, telling the House of Lords is as weaselly as telling community representatives as your first port of call.

  • heck

    “Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? ”

    more likely “have the police gone to John Laird with this information (suspicion?) of theirs?”

    If so is’nt this illegal?

  • what armed conflict ?

    Lord Laird of Artigarvan has named a number of people from South Armagh in connection with the murder.

  • Pete Baker

    It would be more relevant to ask who briefs the IMC.. and why there’s been little other reaction.

    Anyway, I’ve updated the original post to note Lord Laird’s contribution.

  • Dewi

    What did he say ? Seriously is it now in the public domain or is reporting House of Lords stuff illegal. See the BBC ain’t said nowt.

  • Pete Baker


    Psst. Below the fold..

  • Dewi

    Got it Pete – sorry.

  • parci

    “Mr McDowell indicated that the republican movement has already placed people in the top positions of authority: the PM’s office, the police force, the army, major sections of the Government and the media.”

    you have to laugh at that, credibility ruined immediately. Does the PM know?

  • heck

    “It would be more relevant to ask who briefs the IMC? ”

    I disagree Pete. If the police are briefing unionist politicians to achieve political ends then this is unacceptable.

    Remember that Unionist politicians took down an earlier power sharing administration because of allegations that a civil servant was leaking Blair/NIO communication to SF. Why is this unacceptable but irrelevant when the police leak information to the UP.?

    You, more than most, have blogged on the need for support for policing (I would stress the rule of law -but that is another debate.) Do you think that the PSNI leaking unproven claims to a unionist peer will lead to support for the PSNI from the people of S. Armagh? Is this no an example of political policing that was supposed to be a thing of the past?

    Has anyone verified the rumor I heard that two ex SF MLA’s were going to point the finger at the IRA? I have met those two guys and they strike me as real republicans -not people interested in enriching themselves.

  • FewsOrange

    It does seem like the Laird just pulled names at random from Harndon’s Bandit Country.

  • Crisis

    “Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? “

    What would be the point? Given the ‘success’ of police investigations into Omagh, Donaldson, the Northern Bank and McCartney, the keystone cops were slick professionals.

    Circumstancially alone, this murder leads straight to the brave boys of the ra.

    Who else could pull off this size of an operation in that area? Who else would need eight or nine men to murder one 21 year old? Why would the family point the finger immediately if they weren’t involved? And SFs flat-out denial that republicans were involved clinches it.

    Laird hasn’t prejudiced any trial as there won’t be one. The only real question is what the DUP should do. I suspect that Trimble in a similar hole would issue a first public warning, together with a signed letter of resignation if something similar happens again.

  • Reader

    heck: Is this no an example of political policing that was supposed to be a thing of the past?
    It might be, if there was any evidence that Laird got his information from the police. But in his statement he pointed out that he had lots of local sources. Maybe they include your rumoured ex-SF MLAs, or the local outbreak of wall-paintings.
    However, I note your supposition that the PSNI had leaked hasn’t quite turned into an accusation yet. You will let us know when you are ready to go for it? And then tell us where the police got the detailed information from, if the local community isn’t leaking much, much more than it did in the old days.

  • gareth mccord

    A typical and cynical attitude of a unionist politician. They all shout from the heavens when republicans murder their own people and demand justice and name names and want to meet the Prime minister, but when it comes to loyalist para scum murdering protestants what do they do??
    Why have the unionist politicians brushed under the carpet the paid loyalist serial killers who have been exposed and why wont they campaign for justice with ANY of the victims families???
    Why do the unionist communities still vote in people who wont stand up against THEIR OWN para scum?? I would certainly say from their ignorance and denial of paid loyalist killers that they are all in the same murky corrupt and well organised team!!
    But like all murky waters sooner or later the s*** rises to the top for all to see.

  • agh
  • Turgon

    Lord Laird may have cynical political reasons for raising this issue. He may be trying to embarrass the DUP for what seems to be trying to brush this murder under the carpet.

    However, the speech he made makes very specific allegations and appears to name persons who have previously been identified as senior members of the IRA. It seems to show an extremely well organised criminal murder conspiracy by the IRA, followed by a coordinated attempt to prevent the culprits being held accountable.

    Whatever Laird’s reasons for raising this issue, the reaction from the DUP, IMC and governments is interesting. Yes they are being cautious but one gets the impression that they are all trying deperately to find a way of not admitting that the IRA was coporately involved.

  • agh

    I believe spotlight at running with the story tonight – should make interesting viewing.

  • nmc

    Now is the time to stand up and be counted. If the chucks say these people are criminals then let’s be having the lot of them arrested. They can be easily identified, what with two living witnesses. Let’s see the Republican movement stand up to these fucking scumbags and put them in jail.

  • nmc

    P.S. – thanks for the info there agh, interesting stuff from Breen, will catch the spotlight later.

  • PeaceandJustice

    To parci – Lord Laird was talking about “the takeover of the Irish Republic’s main establishment by placing in its ranks IRA supporters as sleepers or moles.”

    You only have to look at RTE – it always treats Sinn Fein IRA with kid gloves.

  • Outstanding in my field

    I dunno but it seems to me that everyone who hates Sinn Féin wants there to be ‘republican’ involvement in this (and let’s not forget it) dreadful murder.

    But the Laird stuff does does look at bit bonkers – not so much information as insanity.

    As for people like McNamee who is trailed on the BBC for the spotlight programme tonight – most people couldn’t belive that he even got onto the SF ticket

    The sad thing in this is the targeting of Vincent Traynor. I heard somewhere that his wife actually nursed Jim McAllisters wife when she was dying and that this 60 old man was attacked by the dead man that it happened months ago.

    [edited moderator]

    Will there be arrests and convictions – who knows; are the Gardai and PSNI looking in the right direction – who knows.

    Are there a load of wishful thinking wankers trying to make some sad political milage out of it – well everyone knows the answer to that.

    Will it be the end of the Executive – No.

  • john

    nmc – 2 of the people named by laird are close relatives of the 2 witnesses.

  • john

    outstanding in my field has a good grasp of the situation.

  • notmyusualname

    Exclusion orders have been used and abused in that area for dog years, long, long past the ceasefire. Those on the periphery are told it is to manage “touts” or “bad bits of business,” but the families affected — quite often republican families — know differently. When I heard of this murder, my assumption was that it was meant to send a message, and not to the late Paul Quinn, RIP.

    I wouldn’t trust Laird or McAllister to have the best interests of either the Quinn family or the people of South Armagh at heart. But the voices of the plain people of Cullyhanna interviewed in the Tribune article ring true to me, and those dismissing them as “enemies of SF” are as guilty of “wishful thinking” as those hoping to see this obscenely brutal murder to bring down the Executive.

    The plain people in the Tribune piece don’t give their names, and I don’t blame them. Neither can I.

  • New Yorker

    It is implicit in Laird’s statement that the government of NI does not have control of part of its territory. That is a very serious charge with wide-ranging implications.

  • Dewi

    Spotlight moving , especially the poor Mother. Nothing new though.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Any fair viewing of the facts would suggest at least individual Provo involvement. Fairly desperate effort by Conor Murphy to suggest Quinn repsonsible for his own death by being a criminal. Sinn Fein position – which will probably change if pressure kept on – is not credible. The issue of sanctioning by the leadership will be too estoeric for most Unionists – looks like curtains for the assembly and some sort of post agreement rupture of SF if they want to survive as largest Nationalist party.

  • me

    Looked to me like the community in south armagh is afraid to go to the police with any info they have.

    Dangerous situation for nationalists to be in after mc cartney’s murder. Are nationalists still under the ‘boys’ thumb? I hope we all know who the bosses are and keep our heads down, if not they can murder and beat and exclude at will. Then clean up forensically afterwards, after showing us who really are the bosses.

    And it would seem they are above the law. The untouchables.

    The programme made me very angry. This is not what we signed up to a peace process for is it?

  • I find this story to be totally unbelieveable, from beginning to end, and for Lord Laird to have issued it under parliamentary immunity disgraceful.

    Sounds much more like a tale to get everyone bitter Unionists, retíred RUC SB members, former BA veterans, MI5 operatives et al. want to get, going almost all the way back to the beginning of The Troubles.

    The idea that all these PIRA operatives would have gone to these lengths and with these numbers to get rid of some two-bit player simply escapes.

    It has all the halmarks of a dirty psy-ops one.

  • fourwinds

    From Independent:
    Initially, ambulance crew who had been called to the scene of the beating at a shed on a farm near the Co Monaghan village of Oram on Saturday thought his injuries were not life-threatening as he was lucid when found. But his condition deteriorated rapidly and he died two hours after being taken to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda.

    This is not how Lord Laird tells it:
    The eight or nine who conducted the execution were dressed in boiler suits and wore surgical gloves. All were IRA or former IRA members. It took almost half an hour for Paul to die.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Trowbridge H. Ford

    For that conspiracy theory to be correct that would require the coperation of the Gardai, ex Sinn Fein councillor, ex Sinn Fein assembly member, the victim’s family, local people, the PSNI.

    Probably easier to believe some elements ( percentage and status yet be established ) of PIRA out of control or following different agenda from SF leadership.

  • I Wonder

    Its easier to believe that brutality which caused numerous deaths over a period of deacades does not go away quickly or easily and that those brutalised remain and will remain fearful for some time.

  • Red Diesel

    Trowbridge, you just don’t get it. The one thing the gang bosses can’t stand and can’t afford is two-bit players standing up to them. It’s the honour code, this was an honour killing, the kid had disrespected the don or one of the don’s made men. Think of the wedding scene in the Godfather. they want to keep community control in order to keep their monopoly on the rackets. they regard the community as their captives, and Conor Murphy is a captive as well. Poor Conor is simply not free to call it as he sees it, so he has to go on the telly with these ridiculous ramblings, and you can actually see that he is gritting his teeth. Lord Laird is a buffoon and a dangerous one, and he got some things badly wrong. The two Quinns from the Bog Road are in fact the two lads who were originally at the barn who were forced to make the phone call. The reason he got it wrong is because he is getting his information from Willie Frazer who has a line into a couple of disgruntled oul fellas in the Branch. Also, Peter John Carragher is into his 80s and hardly on the active service list. However, other details are accurate.

  • toecutter

    listening to connor murphy on the tv denying that republicans wer involved in the mueder of paul quinn was sickening how sinn fein has tirned they learned quick that you can be in goverment and also have a murderous mob waiting in the sidelines to deal with anyone who dissagres with them.to hear him say it was crimnialty diesel smuggling that it was over showed me how wedded sinn fein has become in the british way of doin business.yes their has to be peace but sinn fein are now accepting the british way of doin biz in northern ireland.shame fein they have to be called

  • Beries up to his neck in the provos too

    Deputy Enda Kenny: I join the Taoiseach and Deputy Burton in expressing the sympathy of the House towards the families of those who lost their lives in the inferno in Omagh. I am sure the neighbours who heard the screams of those children will be haunted forever. It goes through you when you see the picture in today’s newspaper.

    The remarks by the Taoiseach shortly after the murder of Paul Quinn disassociated the provisional movement from that crime. Will the Taoiseach comment on the remark by a member of the IMC that this murder was committed by present or former members of the IRA or their associates? Will he comment on the fact that those who committed that murder were dressed in boiler suits and surgical gloves, which was the trademark of IRA punishment squads?

    In respect of the shooting of a PSNI officer in Dungannon, does the Taoiseach feel there is a movement to return to this sort of activity among dissident republicans? Does he have any information to that effect? For everybody’s sake, we do not want a drift back towards such actions on any side. I support the remarks of Deputy Burton about Margaret Ritchie. Her decision was the correct one and it took courage to carry out. I am glad the Taoiseach has reiterated that in the Government’s view, this was the right thing to do.

    The Taoiseach: I can only convey to Deputy Kenny the information I have been given and continue to be given by the Garda and the PSNI. The Garda has advised that there is no information available to suggest that the attack was authorised or carried out by or on behalf of any paramilitary grouping. That is also, I understand, the position of the Chief Constable of the PSNI. I cannot say what some of these people might have been involved or associated with in the past. I have read reports of this, but I can only deal with the present situation.

    The IMC has not reported formally on the murder of Paul Quinn. It has a process for doing that. It is open to it to set out its assessment of the matter in light of the information available in its next formal report to the Government. I am aware of the comments made at a press conference yesterday to the effect that the people who carried out this terrible act, whatever their past history, must be found and charged in accordance with the rule of law. That is what all decent people want to see. There is a dedicated and focused effort being made by the Garda, in conjunction with the PSNI, to ensure that this is done. The Garda has gone beyond the call of duty on this case as its detective units are operating very intensely in the Border areas, which I support.

  • Turgon

    Red Diesel,
    Do not be stupid. You are from South Armagh. Trowbridge is an American living in Sweden. He is obviously much better placed to know what is happening in South Armagh than you. He also knows who killed JFK, Olaf Palme, ended the cold war and loads of other stuff.

    It was Sammy McNally what done it,
    The above obviously also applies to you.
    In terms of your prevoious post re unionists. In all honesty I would not agree. I think the DUP are desperate to ensure that they are not forced to collapse the assembly over this. Jeffrey Donaldson’s initial comments about coporate IRA involvement seem to be the mantra. I suspect that that mantra will be modified but its essential political presumption, that this is not an issue to bash SF, with will continue. The DUP will I suspect huff and puff a bit. They need to be seen to be taking it seriously. They will probably try to let the murder issue run out of steam. Ironically the dissident republicans are helping them. The attacks on the two police officers (which have less actual political significance; having been committed by people who have publicly disowned SF) can be talked up to allow the Quinn murder to be quitely and gradually brushed under the carpet.

  • Jesus Woodwards in the Provo cover up too

    Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): In the light of the statement of IMC member John Grieve about the murder of Paul Quinn, will the Secretary of State categorically assure the House that no stone will be left unturned in exposing Paul Quinn’s murderers? They must be brought to justice, no matter how unpalatable that might be to some, and irrespective of any political consequences. Will the Secretary of State also tell the House that the Government will demand a clear statement that the IRA army council will be totally dismantled?

    Mr. Woodward: As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is an ongoing investigation into the crime he mentions. However, I can say this: I was, of course, aware of John Grieve’s statement of the beginning of this week, and I raised it yesterday with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who told me that there is no information available to the Gardai suggesting that the attack was authorised by, or carried out on behalf of, any paramilitary grouping. I can, however, reassure the hon. Gentleman that nobody is above the law, and I am absolutely prepared to give him this commitment: this Government and the Irish Government believe that whoever did this needs to be investigated and charged in full accordance with the law, and brought to book.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it


    I may be wrong but I feel the Quinn killing will be an issue across the board i.e. including for Nationalists. It may not make sense to Prods but the Nationalist desire to turn a blind eye to ‘non military’ Provo behaviour during the ‘war’ or up until acceptance of the police, has now gone. If no proper answers are forthcoming from SF on this one pressure for collapse of the assembly will/should come from Nationalists as well. This may be the opportunity for the SDLP to suggest that the assembly continues without SF. I personally hope that SF can somehow grasp the nettle but they will need to do significanlty better than Conor did on Spotlight to convince even ‘republican cheerleaders’ ( as I’m occasionally referred to in these posts) like myself.

  • Who, pray tell, is the suspect named by Lord Laird who has challenged him to repeat the charge outside the Lords? I find I can only learn it by joining various newspaper sites. And it is interesting that the BBC which so trumpeted Laird’s charges has nothing about it.

    And the kind of black conspiracy – where only rumors, disguised killers, massive overkill, etc., exist – that I am referring to does not required the convivance of any others, like the Gardai, PSNI, etc. It’s just a tight group which wants to stick it to the PIRA in spades.

  • So it is Vincent Treanor who has come forward to deny all the essentials of Laird’s claims.

    NOw all Laird has to do is repeat them outside the Lords, and the fat is really in the fire – what the loyalist peer says he has all the essentials of despite what any connivers, like the Gardai, may claim.

    This way he could help solve the crime, but I believe it will be a cold day in Hell before he says anything more.

    He, it seems, is either a gross disinformer or part of the plot which so cruelly murdered Paul Quinn.

  • I Wonder

    It is good to see that there is some freedom for posters to speak about these matters as republican blogs ban people for even mentioning anything about this issue, due to their concern for the named individuals.

    For those of us who don’t live in south Armagh, it’s an interesting insight into a perspective that can ignore a brutal murder, the pain of the family and community and concentrate instead on avoiding hurting the feelings of one Michael Carragher.

    The latter is of course a man who did more than wound feelings when he stared down the sights of a Barrett .50 – from the safety of being well out of range…

    At least Conor Murphy has to grit his teeth when trying to invent a way to get through these “difficult” times. The difference is of course, that Paul Quinn isn’t a Robert McCartney, he wasn’t a “Belfast man”. He was a south Armagh man and now, that community has to face the reality that one of their own has been killed for no good reason.

    Not something that is easily forgotten or forgiven, as anyone familiar with the so-called “God’s country” – Minister Murphy – knows full well.

  • tweedledee

    So it is Vincent Treanor who has come forward to deny all the essentials of Laird’s claims.

    Indeed, Trow. But then anyone reading the following extract from Laird Laird would question what sense could be made of it:

    [quote]Having felt that they had to blame someone, on 9 November, Friday night past, six armed IRA men went to the home of Vincent Traynor and forced their way in, but Vincent was not there. For the past week Vincent Traynor has been guarded by the police quick reaction force based at Crossmaglen and Newtownhamilton PSNI barracks. Responding to the visit, the QRF was at his house in a matter of minutes, but the IRA gang had gone. Vincent Traynor is now considered to be number one on the IRA hit list because he talked the leadership in South Armagh into the situation that saw the brutal and savage murder of Paul Quinn.[/quote]

    According to LL on 12th November, Treanor (so accurate was LL that he didn’t even know how to spell the man’s name) was in the protective custody of the PSNI for a week, i.e., since 5th November, but “Slab” Murphy didn’t decide to kill his old comrade until 9th November, assuming “Slab” decided to have his old comrade killed, which would require quite a leap itself.

    Since none of the bloggers on Slugger have seen good reason to report on what Treanor said, although we’re assured there is no bias, here’s the Irish News article:

    [quote]Lord Laird challenged to repeat murder allegation

    (Irish News)

    One of the men named in the House of Lords over the alleged IRA murder of Paul Quinn yesterday (Wednesday) challenged his accuser to repeat the claims in public.

    Vincent Treanor spoke out after Ulster Unionist peer Lord Laird claimed he was a south Armagh IRA leader linked to the killing.

    Mr Treanor, from Cullyhanna where the murder victim also lived, denied ever being a member of the paramilitary organisation or having anything to do with Mr Quinn’s death.

    “I totally refute the comments of John Laird that I am a local IRA chief,” he said.

    Mr Treanor spoke out after the UUP peer, pictured, used parliamentary privilege in the Lords to name the men he believed were linked to the murder.

    The 21-year-old victim was beaten to death by a gang of men after being lured across the border to farm outbuildings in Co Monaghan last month.

    Although Sinn Féin categorically denied republican involvement in the killing, the Independent Monitoring Commission has indicated that either current or former IRA men may have been responsible.

    But in a statement issued through Belfast solicitors Madden and Finucane, Mr Treanor hit back at the allegations against him.

    “I challenge John Laird to state his lies publicly and subject them to challenge through the courts,” he said.

    Mr Treanor also insisted there was no row between his son and Mr Quinn before the killing.

    “I have lived for 30 years in Cullyhanna and am widely known locally,” he said.

    “I have had no involvement in the death of Paul Quinn.

    “I am not and have never been a member of the IRA.

    “I have never been arrested or charged with this or any similar offences.”

    Mr Treanor added that he was aware of graffiti in the area linked to the murder and that police have warned him of a possible threat to his life.

    “I am aware that a number of people have also been named locally as involved in the death of Paul Quinn.

    “I have no involvement with these people,” he said.

    “I can say that there has been no dispute, row or altercation of any kind between my son and Paul Quinn.

    “My son works away from home during the week and returns home only at the weekends.”

    Stressing he has nothing to hide, Mr Treanor described the murder as “a horrific crime” and called for those responsible to be brought to justice.

    “I condemn those who seek to make political points out of this tragic death,” he said.

    November 16, 2007[/quote]

  • tweedledee

    Post 19, page 2, for the attention of the mods. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out the name of the family accused.

    [edited moderator]

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Unsurprisingly I agree that the barbaric murder of Paul Quinn “cannot be brushed under the carpet”. I don’t believe for one minute that the Provies have ceased paramilitarism and all the shadowy criminality that comes with that, but I was prepared to give them a chance and supported the DUP when they decided to share power with the Sinners. Callous murders like Paul Quinn’s, Denis Donaldson’s and Robert McCartney’s make me wonder why the UVF and UDA have put weapons “beyond reach” and “beyond use” respectively. It’s only natural as a Loyalist for me to worry that these low-lifes will turn their attentions to “The Huns” when they get tired of battering/shooting/stabbing members of their own community to death.
    I’m really sorry if I sound pessimistic and reluctant to join in with Big Ian and Marty’s party because I do view Jim Allister and the like as political dinosaurs and yesterday’s men, but it’s fucking well difficult to feel any differently when these dregs of society are going round murdering young men around the same age as me…

  • Shawn

    Concerned Loyalist

    By linking the death of Paul Quinn to to imaginery IRA crimes you have as much as said the IRA is not responsible for his death.

    Robert McCartney was involved in a bar brawl of his own creation. He started trouble with some real hard men and his wanna be hard man credentials didnt stand up to the test. Its a horrible excuse but never the less the truth, he took a bite of the apple but discovered it contained the poison of the asp.

    Dennis Donaldson is even more of an enigma, he sacrificed himself to spare his family and in this he ended up a tragic hero. The loyalist, the RUC and the IRA all had their reasons to kill him. None of them covered themselves in glory in his death so I suggest short of a death bed confesion of his killers, no one will ever know the truth of his death.

    Paul Quinn, obviously LL’s story told to parliment has more in common with the Brothers Grimm than with truth but having said that obviously some od jis killers in the least were former members of the IRA. Whether current or former members will always be up for interpretaion.

    Who you believe will depend on who you want to believe and like so much of northern Irelands history it will remain both an enigma and a matter of faith and not least of ll a matter of interpretaion.

    God help you all

  • gareth mccord

    Shawn why would you say that a group of men armed with various weapons and knives beating up or killing a man are “some real hard men”?
    I would bet you that those so called real hard men would not act on their own. These so called hard men as you say join up because they cant survive on the streets on their own, so if that makes you a “real hard man” in your books then you should ask about the men and women who have stood up against your hard men on their own then you will get your eyes opened.
    A real hard man or woman stands on their own two feet with no fear and no weapons or para scum behind them.

  • Shawn

    You would get no arguement from me

    I would agree that almost universally they are incapable of acting alone but when you challenge a group you must expect a group response.

    The era of one on one duels, whether with fists, foils or pistols, has long since past and mostly resided in the realm of fantasy.

    I in no way support any of the killings of any of the individuals, I just reject the idea that the IRA are wandering around the country killing indiscriminately just because some people say so.

  • gareth mccord

    Shawn the IRA members have and always will control and do what they like in republican areas the same way loyalist para scum will always get away with drugs, murder and racketeering in the protestant areas. In the future all murders wont be sanctioned all illegal activities wont be sanctioned and all in the name of the Stormont Assembly.
    Whenever the G.F.A. blackmail was signed and the prisoners released it basically told the victims and families that justice doesnt come first or in 99% of cases at all!!
    Until we get rid of our war mongering murdering politicians that we have in Stormont the para scum in all our areas will continue to rule. We need real men and women politicians who will not be bought and DELIVER justice and protection for all communities!!

  • Shawn

    Again, agree totally except all politicians every where are bought and paid for in some manner. So while getting rid of the paid up politicians is a laudable goal it is not a realistic one.

    Right now maybe you have the politicians you need to keep the lid on the pot and with time maybe they will be replaced by plain old money grubbing, only interested in their own pockets, politicians most of the rest of the world suffers under. Until then atleast the soldiers are off the streets and the paras of all ilk have had to go back to scuttling around in the dark. Well except maybe some of the loyalist ones who despite being proscribed organisations are remarkably public about who their members and leaders are?

  • harry

    i see that sinn fein are holding a commemoration for an IRA volunteer in Cullyhanna tomorrow (sunday)

    have sf nothing better to do but raise tensions even further in the village??

    there was attacks on houses in the village last nite.

    do they think that people in the area are stupid?
    do they think anyone believes the crap their tv personalities and apologists are spilling.

  • heck


    I agree with tweeledee. Outstanding should be allowed to make unsubstantiated vague allegations against whole families.

  • harry

    any word on how that SF commemoration went today in cullyhana???

    anybody hear how big a crowd was at it or if there was any trouble ??

    talk about rubbing peoples noses in it.

  • j

    good turn out yesterday in cullyhanna.

    surprise surprise no media in case they got an answer they didnt want. Vandals attacked the memorial on sat night. Though people in the media and others may love the graffitti around the town and these attacks the locals certainly dont and are sick to the back teeth of these clowns. Heros throwing stones at windows, burning lorrys in the middle of the night and writing graffitti on walls. Go to the PSNI garda and tell the whole truth and you will have my full respect and support. in the mean time stop wrecking the town or support for punishment beatings will be back as the PSNI dont seem to care.

  • hitman686

    Talking of diesel! Pardon the pun, but if you play with fire you get burnt…Mr Quinn knew the craic

  • gareth mccord

    yous are both annonymous on slugger mocking a cowardly murder. says alot about your state of mind!! Get a life and remember what goes around.

  • j

    Gareth – i said nothing about the murder – which I know little about, just the anti social behaviour in the town at the moment. I hope whoever murdered him is brought to justice.

  • And now DUP MP Daivd Simpson is going to take advantage of the Commons’ privilege to name who he believes murdered Frederick ‘Eric’ Lutton on May 1, 1979.

    My guess is that he is going to name Freddie Scappaticci aka ‘Stakeknife’, especially since the Smithwick inquiry into the murders of the RUC’s Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan is getting nowhere in nailing him, or former Garda SB dective sergeant Owen Corrigan, for their killings.

    This concerted use of parliamentary privilege to settle murder cases which suit loyalists and conniving British authorities at republican expense is becoming the way forward in such matters.

    You can just forget about the inquiries Judge Cory recommended, and other notorious ones, like the murder of Denis Donaldson.

  • gareth mccord

    When is a politician going to use parliamemtary priviledge to name those in government past and present in their involvment in paying and protecting killers??

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    gareth mccord

    That is what Ken Livingstone did in his maiden speech re. Airey Neave.

  • Well, it turns out that Simpson named Francie Molloy,the Stormont Deputy Speaker – what Liam Clarke alluded to back in The Times in August, and cryptome posted the name of shortly thereafter.

    It’s called how you use legislatures to destroy the opposition, and promote even more irreponsible executives aka despotism. And in the process, you destroy the possibility of ever knowing who really did the dirty tricks, and all the touting.