A deaf ear and blind eye…

David Vance‘s piece to camera on Hearts and Minds last night, in which he ‘sends a memo’ to Jeffrey Donaldson on his ‘corporative responsibility’ gambit (Sinn Fein, ironically perhaps, has been calling for the introduction of an offence of ‘corporate manslaughter’ in the Republic).

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  • Nevin

    A blind ear, Mick?

  • Mick Fealty

    That’s what the man said, I think.

  • Not me! Neither blind of eye or ear.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Not even after listening to the Clash?

    By the way, anyone seen the grafitti in Cullyhanna?

  • me

    what does it say Gonzo?

  • Mick Hall

    David and I disagree on almost everything, although not I think on the need for democratic accountability. On this issue his H@M piece caught a true democrats mood perfectly.

  • Nevin
  • me

    Thanks Nevin, it’s time these people went away completely, before we have more families like this one.

  • I wonder…

    BTW MR Slugger, this is on-topic, addressing the idea of democracy and democratic credentials.

    David Vance, you have opposed, on numerous occasions, nationalists and republicans in government and the thread referenced above should be checked out. I appreciate you don’t want BBC producers to Google what you’ve written on the internet lest your appearances be curtailed, but that’s just tough.
    ________________________________________________

    “…nationalists are de facto, if not de jure, unfit for ANY form of Government. Why? Because they seek to destroy the State, ergo they cannot be trusted to do anything in Government.

    Fifth, the institutions will NOT be up and running, count on it.

    Sixth, that’s it!!!

    Posted by: David Vance | February 14, 2006 at 09:24 AM”

    _____________________________________________

    Don’t call me a liar again.

  • me

    I’m glad someone spoke out against the murder.

  • Red Diesel

    Belfast Gonzo
    The main piece of Cullyhanna graffiti (murderin scum) was shown in the Newsletter yesterday. On Wednesday night another one appeared which accused person identified with full forename and initial of surname of having blood on his hands. I gather that a similar message using the same naming system has appeared in the neighbouring townland of Dorsey. At least three other names, two of people who would be regarded as Provo icons, are circulating with the specific allegation that they were in the shed. I heard at the funeral that someone had been told not to paint anything more until after the burial.

  • Mick Fealty

    Sorry, amended now!

    To the others. Ball, guys, ball. Or put another way: engage, not disengage!

  • me

    The fact that this graffitti is appearing says a lot. SF needs to break the connection with the IRA or the IRA need to disband completely. They weren’t required to do so under the GFA, but they should have been.

  • I wonder…

    ..what chance is there for democracy, if government is determined by graffitti?

  • kensei

    “I have no issues with constitutionals nationalist being in Government, perhaps you missed my praise of SDLP Minister Margaret Ritchie? I do oppose terrorists in Government and since IRA/Sinn Fein are terroristic they should not be in government.”

    Actually, what you support is disenfranchising a quarter of the population. How’s that one square with democracy?

  • Those who support a party inextricably linked to terrorism disenfranchise themselves. Next question?

  • Sean

    nice to see theres no bias in the whitewash

  • Ballygobackwards

    Donaldson article in today’s Sun worth a look.

  • Bla

    SAVAGE MURDER WILL HAVE SERIOUS REPURCUSSIONS IF IRA RESPONSIBLE
    Rt. Hon. Jeffrey Donaldson MP MLA

    The murder of Paul Quinn was savage and brutal and has left many people grieving for the loss of a loved family member and friend. Regardless of whatever type of criminal activity Mr. Quinn might have been involved in, for his short life to be ended in the way that it was is utterly reprehensible. On behalf of my party I want to take this opportunity to extend my condolences to the Quinn family circle and to urge anyone with the slightest information to go to the PSNI.

    This murder will have serious consequences for the political process in Northern Ireland if it is shown that the Provisional IRA was responsible for killing Mr. Quinn. People in Northern Ireland believed that at long last the Province was starting to turn a corner. Sinn Fein has accepted the policing structures in the Province and has signed up to support the judicial system also – this is something which would have been unthinkable a short four years ago, when the DUP became the largest party. We have witnessed decommissioning on a scale never seen before and the most recent report of the Independent Monitoring Commission showed that the Provisional IRA was committed to the democratic path and was continuing to decline and fade away. I welcome the fact that leading members of Sinn Fein have condemned this murder and urged people with any information to go to the PSNI – the results of the police investigations will show just how forthright their commitment to the rule of law is.

    In the context of progress made, the Ulster people, for the first time in a long time were looking confidently forward to the future. That newly-found confidence and optimism within the community cannot be put at risk by the actions of murderers and thugs. That is why in the House of Commons during Wednesday’s Prime Ministers’ Question Time I asked the Prime Minister to confirm that only those who are guilty of wrong-doing will be sanctioned and not every party in Northern Ireland as was the case in the past when previous offences took place. I am pleased that Gordon Brown confirmed that this was the government position – that only those guilty of breaking the law will pay for the crime. This is exactly how it should be. In the past, the devolved institutions were thrown in to crisis by the failure of the Provisional IRA to honour its commitments on decommissioning. We do not want to see such crises develop again. The DUP will not be sweeping this issue under the carpet, as others did with similar murders in the past – the DUP has shown in the past that we will not be party to any fudge when it comes to the line between criminality and democracy and that remains the case today.

    The DUP takes the murder of any person very seriously indeed. We have held meetings with the Chief Constable and have been in communication with Downing Street about this dastardly act. I am pleased that the Prime Minister has put the government firmly on the same ground as the DUP – whereby only those found guilty of wrong-doing should be sanctioned for it. We will now await the outcome of the PSNI and Gardai investigations into this murder in order to determine where the political process goes from here, but people should be under no illusion as to how grave this matter is – the DUP will not afford a place in government for those responsible for murder. What people in Northern Ireland want is a strong devolved assembly taking decisions up at Stormont accompanied by the disappearance of all paramilitary organisations and structures from our midst. That is what the DUP is working towards.

  • PS

    Thanks again to Mick Hall – I’m afraid my response to your generous comment was cut. Commenting here would try the patience of a saint.

  • Overhere

    “The fact that this graffitti is appearing says a lot.”

    Says absolutly nothing apart from what is written, (does not make it a fact or evidence of anything).

    If I get up tomorrow morning and wrote on a wall “the earth is flat” does that make the earth flat. If I write Mr —– ——– murdered —— ——- does this mean that it is true. If these people wanted to have those who murdered the man caught and sentenced then they should go to the police with their evidence and don’t give me this guff about not trusting the police b*llocks.

    If you want them caught then get on with it, if you are not really that fussed and just want to get an excuse to upset the apple cart then keep writing the grafitti. Though if those who the grafitti mentions decides to go to the police and lodge an investigation for slander then what will happen.

    I suppose from what I have been reading above I should expect to see you lot rampaging down the street with burning torches and pitch-forks next.

  • Sean

    Mick I think your whitewashing of this thread is a disgrace. This thread is a discussion of DV’s opinions so therefore it is a discussion of DV how can you discuss this opinion with out referencing his other widely spread opinions. And how can you play the ball not the man when the man is the ball?

  • When Jeffrey says “We have witnessed decommissioning on a scale never seen before..” has he seen so much as one bullet or one ounce of what was decommissioned, or does he take it on trust? I recall at the time the DUP was scathing in its reponse to the alleged acts of decommissioning. What’s changed????

  • Sean

    Eventually everyone has to face reality even the DUPers

    dont worry your day will come

  • Suilven

    If you’ve got yet more criticism of David Vance, Sean, why don’t you post it on your own ‘blog’ and stop cluttering up this one – after all that’s all you seem to set it up for.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I recall at the time the DUP was scathing in its reponse to the alleged acts of decommissioning. What’s changed????”

    S’obvious

    people hoped to get driven about in ministerial cars

  • Mick Fealty

    Sean,

    No one is forced to comment here, though some of nutty end stuff is sometimes what some individuals judge the site and ultimately me as site owner by.

    Just pack in the man playing, and tackle the subject! If you want a broader canvass to write upon: start your own blog!! Then you can ‘troll’ yourself to your hearts content.

  • Sean

    Mick
    You didnt answer my question when a man makes himself the ball how do you play the ball with out playing the man

  • Mick Fealty

    I didn’t answer it, because I didn’t understand the premise.

  • Overhere

    Look guys why don’t you simply do what I do when Mr Vance is mentioned or promoted I simply skip over it or change channels. Simply ignoring him gets more results.

    Look what happened to the other loonies who put themselves forward at the election where are they now

  • Suilven

    ‘If you want a broader canvass to write upon: start your own blog!!’

    He already did, Mick – that’s what I was driving at earlier. Wouldn’t call it a broader canvas, mind – just mindless attacks on other NI blogs and bloggers with whom he disagrees.

  • Overhere,

    Touch of the ad hominems there, I think.

    Mick,

    I wish there was a way to keep threads on topic but there isn’t which is a shame because some good substantive debate gets derailed by trolls with little to contribute. My thanks for blogging the H&M piece and I trust the content rather than the personality of the contributor is debated.

  • The Dubliner

    Some talk about another elephant in the room. David Vance asks “What room? All I see is elephants.”

    The biggest elephant of them all is PSF/PIRA’s vast organised crime cartel, generating tens of millions annually for the motley assortment of PSF/PIRA godfathers who control it, having hidden assets in the hundreds of millions, maintained by fear, intimidation, threats and brutal murder, and ignored on the dubious premise that it is better to ignore it than to confront it and thereby violate the unwritten deal whereby PSF/PIRA agreed to stop its sectarian murder campaign and integrate ‘republicans’ into the United Kingdom’s political system in return for being allowed to keep its organised crime cartel and being granted control of the apparatus of state, albeit in the form of puppet administration with the secret state keeping a close eye on them.

    The systematic lowering of the public’s moral standards to accommodate the legitimisation of criminal gangs is northern society’s slippery slope. Folks don’t even see anything wrong about a political party having a private army that can be deplored to batter young men to death with iron bars if that political party’s organised crime rackets are in any way threatened. The worst is yet to come, as your society slides all the way down to its own lowly amoral place courtesy of slipping on the whopping great invisible turds dropped by the elephants that you vote into the room.

  • willowfield

    Kensei: Actually, what you support is disenfranchising a quarter of the population. How’s that one square with democracy?

    David Vance: Those who support a party inextricably linked to terrorism disenfranchise themselves. Next question?

    No-one would be disenfranchised by the absence of the Provos from government. The same entitlement to vote would remain for all – people could still choose to vote for the Provos or any other party.

    The Liberals/Lib Dems have been excluded from Government in the UK for decades, but their supporters are not “disenfranchised”.

  • The Penguin

    Willowfield
    The analogy is completely wrong.
    If, like DV is suggesting re SF, the Lib Dems were getting enough votes to put them in government, but were disallowed from taking cabinet seats, then they and their supporters would be disenfranchised.

    And before you head off down another obvious avenue, remember this is an involuntary coalition we’re talking about in NI. The biggest party does not have the luxury of horsetrading for a partner or partners.

  • Sean

    wish there was a way to keep threads on topic but there isn’t which is a shame because some good substantive debate gets derailed by trolls with little to contribute. My thanks for blogging the H&M piece and I trust the content rather than the personality of the contributor is debated.

    Posted by David Vance on Oct 26, 2007 @ 03:52 PM

    The topic here is your opinion, little in this rant is factual or provable, and if the topic is your opinion then other of your opinions are apropo in the course of discusion.

    Willowfield the libdems are not disenfranchised they simply do not pole enough votes to make themselves important in the english government. But the forced removal of a party representing a sizable part of the population is disenfranchisement.

    Can we forcably exclude the DUP because of their obvious connections to the UDA

  • The Dubliner

    They would be self-disenfranchised since the governments reserve the right to remove parties from the Executive – see the conditions IMC, for example. Likewise, governments have the option of proscibing a political party. The UVF and PSF were de-proscribed on the same day in 1974. That’s democracy.

    The Paedophiles Party, were such a party to exist to promote an illegal act, would likewise find that its supporters were self-disenfranchised by voting for it, as it would not be allowed to join the Executive irrespective of its support. The same holds for those promoting or engaging in illegal acts such as murder and organised crime.

  • Sean

    They would be self-disenfranchised since the governments reserve the right to remove parties from the Executive – see the conditions IMC, for example. Likewise, governments have the option of proscibing a political party. The UVF and PSF were de-proscribed on the same day in 1974. That’s democracy.

    Dub you have a very odd idea about democracy If the government gets to decide who is in government thats not democracy that is a dictatorship with choices

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Dub

    “The biggest elephant of them all is PSF/PIRA’s vast organised crime cartel, generating tens of millions annually for the motley assortment of PSF/PIRA godfathers who control it, having hidden assets in the hundreds of millions, maintained by fear, intimidation, threats and brutal murder, and ignored on the dubious premise that it is better to ignore it than to confront it and thereby violate the unwritten deal whereby PSF/PIRA agreed to stop its sectarian murder campaign and integrate ‘republicans’ into the United Kingdom’s political system in return for being allowed to keep its organised crime cartel and being granted control of the apparatus of state, albeit in the form of puppet administration with the secret state keeping a close eye on them.”

    Jesus, that’s all one sentence. 121 words. Must be some sort of record.

    Makes you seem a little unhinged, to be honest.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Willow/DV

    What does it matter now, really? Sinn Féin ARE in government. This is an argument from the pre 5 May era. Regardless of how difficult some people might find it, the executive exists, and it’s going to continue to exist. Arguments about whether SF are “fit for office” are arguments from the stone age. They’re like the unionist equivalent of Republicans who refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of the 26-county republic, and who still talk about the “Free State”.

    Get over it lads! Move on with your lives, before you bore everyone else to death!

  • Is the truth a bore? If so, prepared to be bored senseless!!

  • The Dubliner

    “Dub you have a very odd idea about democracy If the government gets to decide who is in government thats not democracy that is a dictatorship with choices” –

    The Shinners are not in a government; they’re in a devolved administration that operates on behalf of a government.

    “Jesus, that’s all one sentence. 121 words. Must be some sort of record.

    Makes you seem a little unhinged, to be honest.” – Billy Pilgrim

    Not as unhinged as the guy who counted the 121 words. 😉

  • Harry Flashman

    *Not as unhinged as the guy who counted the 121 words. ;)*

    Excellent riposte.

  • McKelvey

    “The UVF and PSF were de-proscribed on the same day in 1974. That’s democracy.”

    No. That is rule by decree.

  • snakebrain

    *Not as unhinged as the guy who counted the 121 words. ;)*

    Excellent riposte.

    Excellent indeed. And also not as unhinged as Billy’s recent 121 (approx, I didn’t count!) comments on a rugby thread..