Council deplores “street theatre”

Belfast City Council last night passed a DUP resolution deploring the March for Truth including the display of replica weapons. Sinn Fein’s Alex Maskey defended it as “street theatre” while the SDLP, who abstained in the vote, described the debate as a “sham fight”. UPDATE The UUP (except for the Lord Mayor), PUP and Alliance were absent for the vote.

  • The Dubliner

    “Got your point. By your reasoning remembering British soldiers who took part in operations that killed innocents should be banned also.” – Prince Eoghan

    No, you didn’t get my point. You obscured it with your own bigotry. I have no problem remembering just wars. I don’t equate the self-serving terrorist activities of private murder gangs with just wars, however. Indeed, you’d be better off not claiming the murder campaign that you supported was a war, since were your claim accepted, your revered idols would have been despatched to Nuremberg and hung for war crimes, i.e. targeting unarmed non-combatants in violation of the relevant protocols of the Geneva/Hague Conventions.

    “We could be talking about the British remembrance day ceremony here couldn’t we.” – Prince Eoghan

    Except we’re not. We’re talking about a squalid gang of sectarian murderers who inflicted misery on their society for no purpose beyond advancing their own private political agenda and other self-interests.

    “Lol. It’s street theatre! No-one shouting fuck the pope or desiring to be upto one’s knee’s in fenian blood. Are you guys for real?” – Prince Eoghan

    A bunch of sectarian serial killers parading around the streets in an act of self-celebration in a manner calculated to cause offence to the thousands of relatives of those they murdered and to the tens of thousands of people that they injured is no more a “carnival” than a bunch of rapists, pederasts and paedophiles parading around a school playground.

    Of course, you are being coy in what you deem to be “street theatre” in order to avoid a charge of hypocrisy when you emit howls of protest toward Orange Order marches (as you regularly do). OO marches do not carry pictures of loyalist serial killers, nor do they feature individuals dressed in the garb of those serial killers. And compared to the PSF/PIRA march above, they’re saintly affairs.

  • Billy

    Pounder

    As a Nationalist, I didn’t approve of this parade or the replica guns etc.

    However, please don’t try and give us this shite about OO parades being some sort of festival or tourist attraction.

    Very many OO parades have offensive banners/bands/music. They sing anti-Catholic songs (fenian blood) etc. They are very often accompanied by groups of drunken yobs in Rangers tops who urinate in public, throw litter everywhere, and generally make life miserable for local residents.

    They are particularly vocal in proximity to Catholic neighbourhoods and Catholic places of worship. However, I also know many Protestants (some in the order) who find this behaviour intolerable.

    I would tend to agree with your views on this particular parade. However, the OO is in no position to lecture anyone.

    It needs a lot more than the usual empty rhetoric from it’s “leadership” before it’s public image will improve from it’s current position of abysmal.

  • Billy

    Dubliner

    “OO marches do not carry pictures of loyalist serial killers”

    Many OO lodges carry banners commemorating “loyalist” terrorists. Many more employ bands named after “loyalist” terrorists.
    There are numerous examples of OO parades stopping outside Catholic churches for 5 – 10 minutes and deliberately playing their “kick the Pope” music very loudly. They have also done the same outside places where innocent Catholics have been murdered i.e. Sean Graham’s bookmakers shop.

    The “Love Ulster” parade (and all Willie Frazer’s rallies) carry placards commemorating Robert McConnell as an “innocent victim”. McConnell was indeed killed by the IRA (of which I disapprove as I do of all paramilitary killings). However, he was a “loyalist” terrorist murderer and member of the Glenanne gang which killed many innocent Catholics and was involved in the Dublin + Monaghan bombings – hardly an innocent victim eh?

    I personally did not approve of the “March for Truth” and a lot of the “costumes”.

    However, to describe OO parades as “saintly affairs” is frankly laughable.

  • Sean

    And incidentally they have been photographed attacking the police with their replica weapons. It looked grotesque like so much of their performance.

    Posted by lib2016 on Sep 05, 2007 @ 10:05 PM

    Lib2016
    those were real swords weren they? therefor not replicas but real weapons

  • The Dubliner

    What is the subject of this thread: a PSF/PIRA march or OO marches? The act of diverting the subject from one sect onto another sect is called…? That’s right: whataboutery.

    Answer this: do you think the marchers were right to carry a picture of Francis Hughes, showing no regard to the sensitivies of the familiy of the 10-year-old protestant girl, Lesley Gordon, he murdered or to the family of 77-year-old protestant woman, Hester McMullan, who he also murdered? Do you think that maybe he didn’t intend to murder Hester McMullan but intended to murder her son? If so, why did he and McGlinchy fire 14 bullets into her body while she sat in her kitchen? Maybe she had the light turned off an elderly woman in a dress is very easily confused with a young man in a uniform, eh? Or maybe he didn’t care because he got another prod and one who spawned a member of the security service, eh? What do you think the son of William Gordon, a protestant man murdered by Francis Hughes will make of it, knowing that that man murdered his sister, his father, and severly maimed him, eh? They’re not of your tribe so what care you, isn’t that what it boils down to?

  • Billy

    Dubliner

    I assume that I was one of those that your reply was aimed at. My anti-violence position across all threads is consistent.

    I challenge you to find any posting where I have condoned violence in any way from any group.

    I have already said that I did not approve of this parade or the paramilitary trappings.

    As to “whataboutery”. Your point is fair. However, on the threads dealing with OO parades, you will always find the usual suspects (Observer, Peace&Justice, Watchman etc) going off on tangents about the GAA or the AOH. Isn’t that whataboutery then?

    I don’t recall you making an issue of that.

    Perhaps you don’t have any problem with “whataboutery” when those indulging in it support your point of view.

    That’s called…? That’s right: Hypocrisy

  • USA

    Billy,
    It’s a pleasure to read your posts.

  • The Dubliner

    Billy, just as I didn’t bother explaining the difference between a declarative and a comparative sentence when you accused me of stating that the OO is “saintly,” I won’t bother explaining what an interrogative sentence is, now that you accuse me of accusing you of inconsistency. I don’t think the charge of whataboutery is unfair. Instead of addressing the issue of this PSF/PIRA march, you addressed an irrelevant issue of OO marches (as did Prince). And you are still avoiding the questions that I put you – as is your right, of course.

    Despite utterly bogus claims by sectarian sympathizers attributing high moral standards and ethical conduct to these degenerate psychopaths, it is blatantly obvious that the idolised Hunger Striker Francis Hughes was a cold-blooded sectarian murderer who indiscriminately slaughtered girls, boys, men, and old women without any regard for human rights, the concept of a “just war”, or the Geneva Convention, operating under the sole proviso that his victims should be of the protestant religion.

    You’re more than welcome to read Protocol 1 of the Geneva Conventions and try to find a single article of it that PIRA haven’t violated with total disregard for the principles and practices outlined therein. Contrary to their own propaganda, even as “soldiers” they were flagrant war criminals.

    “The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.”

    So, why should a gang of vicious sectarian murderers who used violence for fascist purposes be regarded by a section of the nationalist community as ‘war’ heroes?

  • Pounder

    I never said that I supported the Orange Order. I actually believe that their parades should be restricted to the area around their own halls. I merely pointed out that as disagreeable as many of you find the Orange Order and complain of Lodges and Bands carrying banners celebrating murderers can you not see why others get so upset when your side do the same. When you act like your enemy you become worse than them, because you should really know better.

  • Ginfizz

    Still no answer as to when the McCartney family can expect the truth from Sinn Fein about what happened to their loved one? Sinn Fein supporters murdered him and Sinn Fein members helped cover it up and still to this day protect those reponsible for it.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Pounder

    I’ve seen and been subjected to plenty of OO and Loyalist Nuremberg rallies going along my road thanks. I’ve witnessed personally them and their followers shouting and singing highly slogans and songs of a highly offensive nature usually after closing time. A few months ago I had one daftie parading up and down on his own drunkenly playing the flute in full uniform. Read Alan Brazil’s experiences, the Talksport presenter of these ‘decent OO marches’ that you speak off.

    Dub????

    >>No, you didn’t get my point. You obscured it with your own bigotry.< < If I didn't get your point then how the fuck could I obscure it. I turned it on it's head to show how fatuous your latest pathetic attack on the the IRA was. >>“We could be talking about the British remembrance day ceremony here couldn’t we.” – Prince Eoghan

    Except we’re not. – Dub the hypocrite.< < The point stands - We could be by your own reasoning! >>Of course, you are being coy in what you deem to be “street theatre” in order to avoid a charge of hypocrisy when you emit howls of protest toward Orange Order marches (as you regularly do). OO marches do not carry pictures of loyalist serial killers, nor do they feature individuals dressed in the garb of those serial killers. And compared to the PSF/PIRA march above, they’re saintly affairs.
    Posted by The Dubliner on Sep 06, 2007 @ 12:29 AM<< Me? Coy? LOL! Overall this is a blatantly disingenuous appraisal of both the IRA and OO, but you already knew that Dub. As regards YOUR hypocrisy, you must have broken all the mirrors in your house because surely the shame must overcome you.