“a project that will improve journey times and safety for all.”

When it opened with a fanfare of publicity, and no less than three ministers from two jurisdictions, the expectation was that the £33million stretch of the new dual carriageway near Newry would cut journey times – indeed one of those minister’s declared, “This is an excellent example of Roads Service working across the island with their counterparts in the National Roads Authority and Louth County Council on a project that will improve journey times and safety for all.” But, with weekend tailbacks proving those hopes to be false, for now at least, Roads Service have announced its staff would be examining what caused the tailbacks and the Department for Rural Development have said “they would also be monitoring and reviewing the position to see if any minor alterations could be made to the temporary road layout at Cloghogue roundabout.” Fingers crossed, then..

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  • pacman

    The problem isn’t really at the Cloughoge roundabout so tinkering there won’t make much of a difference. The main cause of the delays is where the new road joins the old road just south of the Carrickdale (a temporary measure whilst the remaining stretch from there to Cloughoge is finished) due to the traffic control measures.

    I imagine the major cause of the delays at the weekend, in addition to holiday makers heading south, was the increase in GAA supporters travelling down for the Antrim and Tyrone matches.

  • joeCanuck

    Now that is interesting but not necessarily unique.
    20 odd years ago, a European country, Denmark or Holland I think, built a new road link between two cities in order to alleviate traffic congestion. There were already two connecting roads. When the third road was opened, to everyone’s surprise, journey times between the two cities increased substantially. The government closed the new road and times returned to normal, so the road was abandoned.
    I subsequently read an article in an engineering journal, or perhaps Scientific American, mathematically analysing the situation. The author(s) even built an electrical circuit model simulating the roads set up and demonstrated that, indeed, the increased journey times were valid.
    Sounds weird but the cause was determined to be because the new road didn’t go directly between the two cities but joined one or both of the existing roads a few kilometres from the end point(s).
    Could a similar situation be occurring here?

  • Cruimh

    “I imagine the major cause of the delays at the weekend, in addition to holiday makers heading south, was the increase in GAA supporters travelling down for the Antrim and Tyrone matches. ”

    That’s it, blame the poor old GAA 😉

  • In any case, it will be cleared up when the Beech Hill to Cloughogue section of the road is finished next (?) year.

    It’s a wonderful spelling, Cloughogue. I wonder how many foreign Sluggerites could even make a stab at its pronounciation?

  • Annoyed

    The problem isn’t directly attributable to traffic volumes, although I’m sure they don’t help.

    The tailbacks are being caused by the fact that only one side of the new dual carriageway is open at the Cloghue roundabout end. All northbound traffic is forced to filter on to the southbound lane thus forcing four lanes of traffic on to just two lanes.

    I was stuck in the tailbacks yesterday late afternoon. It took me one hour to get from the outskirts of Dublin to the border and half an hour to get from the border to Cloghue!

    It doesn’t even seem as if it’s something that can be sorted out quickly as there is a chunk of a mountain where the end of the new road should be.

    Looks like it was opened too soon.

  • willis

    Joe

    Is there any chance you can get more detail on that. Electric Circuit Theory and Roads – a marriage made in heaven.

  • pacman

    “That’s it, blame the poor old GAA ;)”

    Tut Tut and there was me resisting the temptation of having a snigger at their performances. But then, I’m a Down man so I can’t open my mouth. ;-(

    I love it when UTV pronounce it Claw-hogue or clock-hogue.

  • pacman

    Sammy, I believe the Cloughhoge to Beechill stretch isn’t due for completion until 2009. The tailbacks should clear up once the other side of the dual carriageway is opened, which should be later this year. The tailbacks will probably then move to the Beechill section when they attempt to link it all together.

  • joeCanuck

    It’s along time ago Willis.
    I’d suggest you start with looking at the Scientific American indices. They always give a summary of the year’s articles in the December issue.
    By now they probably have a searchable on-line index.
    Good luck.

  • Bemused

    This whole farce is an utter fucking digrace. The lack of a fit-for-purpose motorway between the two principal cities on the island is an outrageous and patent testament to the decades of unionist mis-rule in the North. Even when the last sections of this thing are finished in 2009/2010/2011….it still won’t be a motorway and all drivers heading south from Belfast will still have to run the lottery of the constantly changing speedlimits between Sprucefield and Sheepbridge. Shame on Conor Murphy for giving this drip, drip, drip abomination the fig leaf of respectability – he and Dermot Ahern should have called it as it is namely “sorry about this folks, it’s a fucking disgrace, it’s thirty years too late but unfortunately that’s the mess that those in the DUP/UUP have left us with……”

  • IJP

    I’m not at all sure what Roads Service can do about it, in the short term.

    The lesson here is you need to think much more long-term than we do in the North. It has been obvious for years, if not decades, that the road south of the border would be upgraded to motorway standard, and that the road north of the border would require similar.

    Sammy

    I don’t deny I was well off on the pronunciation until I heard Chris Buckler. Assuming he was right, of course…

  • IJP

    Bemused

    What about FF misrule in the South??!

  • Babydriver

    Ah, now, come on. Well documented research into road-building in Ingerland over the last 30 years has repeatedly come up with the conclusion that the building of any new road or widening of sections of existing roads immediately swamps said thoroughfares with traffic and causes all kinds of traffic congestion on the various access points.

    As such, it wouldn’t have taken a goldfish very long to work out that the opening of the Newry dual carriageway would lead to immediate problems (especially with all those loons only capable of following their satnav systems).

  • Dawkins

    “The lack of a fit-for-purpose motorway between the two principal cities on the island is an outrageous and patent testament to the decades of unionist mis-rule in the North.”

    Not trying to start a row or anything, but is this also the reason why the M2/M22 suddenly ends halfway between NI’s two major cities?

  • Cruimh

    Roads were and are so wonderful in the ROI LOL

  • wild turkey

    Dawkins

    ‘Not trying to start a row or anything, but is this also the reason why the M2/M22 suddenly ends halfway between NI’s two major cities? ‘

    You wouldn’t be suggesting that that actual road infrastructure is gerrymandered?

    Actually hang a right off the last, or penultimate exit, of the M2 and, hey presto, you are on a dual carriageway all the way to the, um, the major city of Ballymena.

    I wonder why?

  • “Cloughogue”

    it’s just prounounced

    c(h)log (soft haith)

  • slug

    To decongest the road, raise the tariff.

  • Bretagne

    Slug –

    Given an alternative road – that is an option I would go for…like the M6 or the M6 Toll (ya pays your money…)around Birmingham. In this case the reason that the stretch through Ravendale is not oficially a motorway, it that with no alternative road the A1/N1 will have to take <50cc mopeds, tractors etc - even though it is built to motorway standard in terms of curves, spacing between junctions etc..

    Belfast will need an outer orbital motorway at some point - but which of our large testicled politician will suggest a toll toad to get it built and before the petroleum runs out.

  • Comrade Stalin

    It’s a wonderful spelling, Cloughogue. I wonder how many foreign Sluggerites could even make a stab at its pronounciation?

    I was corrected on this matter when I pronounced it Clogh-ogue (as in Kylie) by a Newry native, who told me it was simply pronounced “Clogh”. I’ve no idea what the -ogue at the end is for, on any other Irish placename it is there to be pronounced.

    “The lack of a fit-for-purpose motorway between the two principal cities on the island is an outrageous and patent testament to the decades of unionist mis-rule in the North.”
    ..
    Not trying to start a row or anything, but is this also the reason why the M2/M22 suddenly ends halfway between NI’s two major cities?

    I like blaming the unionists for things, but this one can’t be laid at their door, at least not directly. The unionist government had a massive, very ambitious motorway building plan. As an example of that ambition, feast your eyes on the eight-lane section of the M2+M5 between York Road and Greencastle, which for quite a long time was the widest section of motorway in the UK and I have a feeling it might yet be the longest section of that width in Ireland. Their massive roadbuilding budget was cut back after Stormont was dismantled, due to the escalating security situation. That is why we’ve got lots of stunted bits of silly motorway for no reason in particular (such as the A8(M)) and rushed pieces of rubbish like the Westlink with it’s infamous Walls of Death and stunted sliproads.

    I remember driving to Dublin in 1998. At that time there was no motorway whatsoever between Belfast and Dublin worth talking about. I lived there for a year in 1999, and despite remembering Bill Clinton’s limo using the then-unopened motorway on one of his visits, I don’t remember it being available during the year 1999-2000. Driving to Dublin at that time involved the punishment of passing right through Dundalk and Drogheda, which was not remotely funny in heavy traffic, and then through the narrow windy roads in the environs of Balbriggan before reaching Dublin proper. When the traffic around those towns was busy, the drive would take the guts of three hours. If that’s unionist misrule, then I guess it must be Irish misrule as well.

    Regarding the point about roads getting busier after they’re widened, I’m reasonably sure it is a fact of life. Congestion along the length of a road acts as a filter to prevent more serious clogging further along. Remove the congestion, and all that traffic speeds towards the remaining congested points. It looks like that’s what has happened in Newry.

    This is precisely what is going to happen when the Westlink upgrade is completed in 2009, at which point traffic will zoom unimpeded towards the York Road interchange with the M2/M3, and undoubtedly lead to serious congestion at that point. Likewise the current works widening the M2 between Templepatrick and Greencastle, which will dump more traffic at peak times onto the foreshore section of the M2/M5. It will be around another ten years before that particular matter gets sorted, by which time economic growth will likely to have at least doubled the number of cars passing through Belfast while our dilapidated old trains continue to chug slowly along the same underinvested bits of track. Go figure ..

  • Bretagne

    Comrade Stalin ….

    This link gives the history of the old NI parliament plans.
    It is interesting that the collapse of ambition happened a bit before your reckoned – I would blame
    either the civil rights movement or the emergence of IK Paisley – but whatever the cause – this guys website is more accurate and upto date that the Roads Service…

    http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/historymotorwayplans.html

    The annoying thing about Cloughoge is that with some small changes – opening both sides of the carraigeway even on a temporary surface, making some temporary changes to the roundabout itself, and temporarily getting rid of the hard shoulder on the existing bypass north of the roundabout, and by introducing a 40mph speed limit a mile south of the roundabout, the could have kept traffic rolling through three out of the fours roundabout and not had this mess. Avoidable.

  • When I were a lad, we knew that in reality, catholic baby boom or no we weren’t likely to see a United Ireland any time soon. We were going across to NI for cheap petrol and shops you couldn’t find in ROI, and we all marvelled about the roads – I used to think the car would sigh with relief! And as for income taxes… it would be turkeys voting for Christmas.

    Seems like those days were a long time ago now.

  • The Third Policeman

    I was corrected on this matter when I pronounced it Clogh-ogue (as in Kylie) by a Newry native, who told me it was simply pronounced “Clogh”. I’ve no idea what the -ogue at the end is for, on any other Irish placename it is there to be pronounced.

    The -ogue at the end is there to be pronounced here as well Comrade, its the ‘gh’ in the middle thats a waste of space. In my experience the ‘gh’ in most Irish place names is silent, (think of Maghera, Magherafelt, Bellaghy and so on). I know that when English people try to say Maghera for example they revert to some bizare Arabian/Russian concoction and spit goes everywhere.

    I’ve been told by a friend of a friend coming home from the local public house that Protestants tend to pronounce the ‘gh’. Never really noticed it to be honest. Is this another example of the simply massive (internet sarcasm alert) differences between useems and themuuns?

  • Dewi

    Ok – Phonetically how is it pronounced ? For instance is it two syllables or one ?

    Chris says one syllable – so what’s the correct spelling ?

  • runciter

    Dawkins: ‘Not trying to start a row or anything, but is this also the reason why the M2/M22 suddenly ends halfway between NI’s two major cities?‘

    It is no great secret that Nationalist areas were starved of infrastructural investment.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Bretagne, Wesley Johnson’s site is indeed great.

    Third Policeman:

    I’ve been told by a friend of a friend coming home from the local public house that Protestants tend to pronounce the ‘gh’.

    Nah. I think around Belfast people pronounce the “gh” quite hard. eg I’d normally pronounce “Drogheda” as drock-ed-a, “doagh” – doak (but not quite so hard on the K in that case). My pals in Dublin told me off about that (they don’t pronounce the “g” in Drogheda) so I’ve softened mine a bit. That said, I’d never have said “mack-er-ha” for Maghera.

  • Dewi

    So Joseph – how do you pronounce “Cloghogue” – two syllables or one, hard or soft ?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Dewi, until I was educated in the matter I pronounced it as I read it, “clouh-ogue”, hard gh, hard “ogue” at the end, as in “rogue”. Now having been instructed with the correct pronounciation I pronounce “clogh”, soft gh.

  • Comrade Stalin

    How do people say “Augher” and “Clogher” ?

    Acker and Clacker ? 🙂

  • Pertuis

    Has nobody worked out that NI roads work on the same basis that Haussmanns had in creating the Parisian boulevards?

    It’s all to do with military control (apologies to any resident spookhunter).

    Example: why does the M1 run out at what is the limits of the Prod/Unionist home territory? Anything further is Apache-country and expendable, but “what we have, we hold”.

  • gaelgannaire

    Dewi,

    Its pronounced /clo:g/, one syllable.

    The final g is hard.

    An Chlochóg ‘the stony place’

    the -óg is a diminutive.

    The medial ‘ch’ is not normally pronounced in East Ulster Irish, hence the pronouncation.

    Bore da.

  • The Third Policeman

    Comrade I would say Awwher, Clawherr and Five Mile Town.

  • eranu

    drove the new stretch back to dublin last night, its very welcome. the 90 minute claim of belfast – dublin journey time is only true if you speed the entire distance though. otherwise it only saves a couple of mins. if you can, do the journey late at night to avoid the traffic. thats what i do. the late night drive from one world to the other provides some interesting ‘me time’ to contemplate life 🙂

    the traffic problem, as some have said, would have been obvious when planning the road building project. so what genius has been ‘planning’ things on the NI side? will we find out? how do we find out? will anything happen to them for this arse up? if a commercial company has a project manager whos projects are a complete mess, then the company will sack him. the newry bypass is not only late, it hasnt even started! (as far as i know).
    the utter uselessness of whoever is managing things on the NI side is unbelievable. i havent heard anything about speeding up the building of the bypass, just talk of rearranging the lanes so people can get from a motorway to a roundabout quicker…

    in my opinion NI is full of useless managers that have sat for decades and done nothing. they shuffle papers around their desks and say things like ‘this is the way we’ve always done things…’ they have no ideas and no ability to get anything done. get them out of their jobs, kick them up and down the new stretch of motorway for a while, and get some people in that can actually get things done… rant over…

  • Fraggle

    the farse at the clogged roundabout is unbelievable when compared to how well the ballmascanlon roundabout was handled at the dundalk end. the two roundabout are pretty much analagous yet the tailbacks at ballymac were a couple of hundred meters, not kilometers long.

    why are things being handled in such a cack-handed way at newry when down the road, things ran reasonably smoothly?

  • Dawkins

    When the cat’s away…

    Very off topic but I’ve no other means of communicating this.

    Who’s the joker who removed my (legitimate) email addy from my “personal information” and substituted dawkins@nakedape.tv?

    A bit childish to say the least. I wonder what Mick will make of this.

  • al

    I’d pronounce same as “clock”.

    clogher however is claw-her 😀

    and drogheda would be droc-eda to me. don’t give a monkeys what the chimps in dublin think 😀

  • dub

    whilst we’re on pronunciation (off topic i know but anyway!) could anyone enlighten me as to how Keady is pronounced by people from keady? in the adjoining counties of monaghan and louth it is always in my experience pronounced KAYDIE which is true to the irish Ce(with fada)ide.. but north of “border” i have always heard it pronounced KEEDY… why is this??? Chris Gaskin?

  • eranu

    “and drogheda would be droc-eda to me. don’t give a monkeys what the chimps in dublin think 😀 ”

    they pronounce it ‘draw ha da’. i say ‘drock a da’, or ‘drock’ just to annoy them 🙂

    they also say ‘dor….set’ street, instead of ‘dorset’ street. no idea why…..

  • but north of “border” i have always heard it pronounced KEEDY… why is this???

    Because many newsreaders don’t pronounce it right. If you actually go to Keady, people pronounce it ‘Kaydie’.

  • On second thoughts, they pronounce it Kyaydeeh.