“It’s high time we all learned to love all of Ulster”

Fergus Black welcomes the second Love Ulster march as a rare opportunity for Dublin show affection for its northern neighbours by simply letting them walk through the centre of town.

WE never were given the chance to embrace, let alone love Ulster last year. Never given the opportunity to allow unionist victims of the Troubles have their say. Never even allowed to appreciate the sights and sounds of a good Northern marching band beating its way through the capital. Instead, intolerance and thuggery raised their ugly heads. With everyone caught on the hop Dublin was treated to the some of the worst rioting the city has witnessed as counter-demonstrators went on the rampage.

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  • Declan Church

    Having witnessed and photographed the Feb ’06 Love Ulster riot in Dublin, I know what I saw – general chaos from a large amount of lazy “disaffected” scum.

    I really don’t think it was the particular march that caused that riot; it was a combination of things. Firstly, O’Connell Street saw a small protest from Republican Sinn Fein. This group of brain-dead scumbags naturally attracted other moustachioed Aslan-lovers much like flies around shite. They saw a whole bunch of gardai in riot gear, saw the granite blocks left on the street for the roadworks as a whole bunch of, well, ammo to test out the guards’ gear on.

    But be under no illusion; even if it were in the middle of a Celtic FC victory procession down O’Connell Street followed by the Wolfe Tones, 2Pac and Aslan with Jordan and similarly large-knockered freaks of nature handing out Bud and batter burgers, Dublin skangers would still chuck rocks at guards if someone was kind/daft enough to leave granite slabs out on the street for them.

    These are people who tell Irish speakers to “fuck off back to your own country” when they hear what they don’t understand on Dublin streets. Their ignorance is astonishing, and it should in no way affect this march – which now must take place on a point of principle. If we allow this “element” to dictate who we allow down our main thoroughfare, then the ideals of this republic will have been compromised.

  • Juan

    “These are people who tell Irish speakers to “fuck off back to your own country” when they hear what they don’t understand on Dublin streets”

    What was the name of that BBC program, where some yank tried to walk around Ireland communicating in (what sounded like) ‘long kesh Irish’? (The most promoted variant in the Americas as i understand it). He went up the falls and nearly got a digging and then to the Shankill where he was told it was a ‘lovely wee language’……

    Mr Black should be listened to, the fact that Frantic Frazier is using victims issues as tabloid political capital is very very alarming for most unionists and to see his little ploys nulified in this fashion would spare victims issues from the cheap degradations his protests result in. We dont need a riot to tell us sections of the Irsh public hate and want to destroy Orange communities, we do need people like Mr. Black to ensure the voices of decent Irish people are not lost in the clamour.

    We have a long way to go on both sides and willy does not help, least of all in ensuring justice and dignity for victims, indeed his cheap stunts are to the detriment of any such ambition.

  • DaithiO

    Frazer has become a joke figure but I hope he’s allowed to walk down O’Connell Street, let him be heard in his capital city because nobody really gives a feck about him in Westminster.

    Real republicans should let him know, peacefully, that we love Leinster, Munster, Connaght AND Ulster, and care about ALL victims, not only our own.

  • Wilde Rover

    There must be someone in Republican Sinn Fein who appreciates the bitter irony of a group claiming to be the inheritors of the Republic proclaimed by Pearse relying on the mindless descendants of 1916 looters.

  • William Boot

    “Never even allowed to appreciate the sights and sounds of a good Northern marching band beating its way through the capital.”

    Another stirring dispatch from the Irish Unionist.

    Seriously, has any southern journalist thought yet thought it necessary to ask why ‘victims champion’ Frazer was refused a personal weapon by the police, why UDA commanders were unloading his campaign’s freesheet, what he thought of Billy Wright etc etc etc?

  • overhere

    William Boot: I am afraid there are some journalists everywhere who are just too lazy to do any research on any thing.

  • juan

    “Real republicans should let him know, peacefully, that we love Leinster, Munster, Connaght AND Ulster, and care about ALL victims, not only our own” – a fine view from a member of the ‘wolfe tone society’ !

    republican organisations , as far as i can see, are never concerned overly with those who died at the hands of republican organisations, their very definition of victim is secterian and Frazier’s organisation was set up as a mirror image of RFJ, he just didnt run it as well,
    look at the chronology of the establishement of these organisations, secterian Protestant victims groups are a direct response to the sisnster secterian catholic victims groups, its exploting morbid tales for secterian recruitment, nothing more.

    the sad thing is people who do deserve justice are being made fools of by this man.

    and the suggestion that republicans can look to more high minded principles on the victims issue is a historically baseless fantasy, devoid of all substance save nausiating and hypocritical positive rhetoric.

  • ??

    ” care about ALL victims, not only our own”

    find a single Republican group that seeks justice for the victims of republicanism

  • Glensman

    Another good thread steered towards victims of republicanism…

    Willie Frazer. What can you say, if I was a Unionist I would be very embarrassed to have this man claim to represent me. His cheap stunts, lies for newspaper headlines, verbal attacks on paramedics show this man to be a Walter Mitty who should be ignored by the unionist community and the media.

    I can remember very freshly how he was completely ignored at the SF Special Árd Fhéis.

  • Cruimh

    Robert McCartney’s name doesn’t seem to be on the PFC website.

  • JUAN

    ” can remember very freshly how he was completely ignored at the SF Special Árd Fhéis. ”

    GIVEN THAT THEY SLAUGHTER MOST OF HIS FAMILY, MAYBE IT WAS FROM SHAME ?

  • I know what I saw – general chaos from a large amount of lazy “disaffected” scum.

    If that’s all it was then were did the petrol bombs come from? I can’t remember ever seeing businesses on O’Connell Street leaving their empties about on a Saturday afternoon before.

    Someone from Dublin’s peace-loving tree-hugging democratic extreme left/republican fringe went out that Saturday afternoon to burn a few jaffas or burn a few guards. Why do republicans always have to live in denial about republican violence, even when its perpetrated by republicans they don’t actually like?

    On the parade thing, maybe the mainstream Orange could elbow Wacky Willie out of the way and pursue the Orangefest thing down south, maybe with a parade called “Twelfth On Tour: Off 2 Dublin In Da Orange (Old Skool)” or something.

  • manichaeism

    Why should we all learn to love Ulster?

    What is there to love about it?

    Quite frankly it has just made life miserable for everyone in these islands for the last 30 years.

  • IJP

    Lovely sentiments from Mr Black, but these people don’t “love Ulster”, only a certain part of it.

    There’s no need for physical violence, but frankly I wouldn’t expect them to be any more welcome in Dublin than the Orange hangers-on were in Bangor on Easter Tuesday.

  • Juan

    many people would see the converse as true,

    the columbia three and the bomb tactics of the taliban evidence that the south has brought misery to the whole world, not just ulster.

  • manichaeism

    I’m not sure if the taliban copy the I.R.A. or not but I am sure they would have been quite capable of working out there own tactics if there was no one to copy!

  • Timmy O’Tool

    If they’re coming down again I think we should let the gays in alongside them and call it the “Man Love Ulster” parade!!!! They can parade down O’Connell St. arm in arm dancing and singing merrily, tra-la-la! I can imagine it now marching around in those cute bowlers and those darling little sashes!!

  • I Wonder

    Willie Frazer represents a grand total of 678 Unionists (those who voted for him in the spring)They’re of a particularly odd variety.

  • páid

    Republicans should think about this.

    Frazer & Co. want to walk in the erstwhile capital city of Ireland, Dublin.

    On O’Connell St., named after ‘The Liberator’.

    Past the Protestant Parnell’s monument, on which it is written, if memory serves me correctly –

    “No man has a right to fix the boundary of the march of a nation; no man has a right to say to his country, “Thus far shalt thou go and no further.”

    And down past the GPO. With the Tricolour on top, you know, the one that is one third orange.

    Let him walk, it’s supposed to be his country after all.

  • snakebrain

    Yep, I’m afraid this is one of those occasions where the only honourable thing to do is turn the other cheek and allow Frazer his walk through Dublin.

    There’s a phrase nagging away at the back of my mind, something about giving him enough rope…

  • Mayoman

    Pissed myself at this from Juan!!! “the columbia three and the bomb tactics of the taliban evidence that the south has brought misery to the whole world, not just ulster.”

    Now THE SOUTH is not only to blame for the IRA, but for both the taliban AND the conflict between the two terrorist factions in Columbia (FARC/American-backed Columbian Govt) and in fact has brought misery to THE WHOLE WORLD!!!

    Yep, he really said it!!

    Not to mention the hypocrisy of such a statement! (obvious extremely high death toll of innocent civilians from a certain neighbours international sojourns over the centuries and up to the present day in the middle east).

    God Juan, go to school please!!!!!

  • Obscure Reference

    “the south has brought misery to the whole world”
    Marvelous! An instant Slugger gem, combining tribal rancor with tin-foil hat wearing grandiosity – the classic formula.

    Unambitious though. You’re letting “the south” off very easily. With a little effort you could combine the sinking of the Lusitania and Titanic, the Tom Cruise movie “Far and Away,” the extermination of the Albigensian heretics by Pope Innocent V in 1209, Oirish bars blighting the planet, the fact that green is the colour of Islam, and the horrific alien intelligence behind the leprechaun into a grand unified theory explaining the imminent enslavement of mankind!

    The Love Ulster parade was very useful in exposing how blithely oblivious Ireland is to the reality of Northern Ireland, unaware of the existence of marauding bands of scum that Dubliners daily endure, and casually accepting of the fact that a fundamental definition of a State – a monopoly on organized violence – still does not apply in Ireland.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Boys

    Jaun is a product of the Waco Dave finishing school over on ATW, please go easy on him he can’t help himself. In his defence he is one of those fed a lot of nonsense by Waco himself and Cruimh’s alter ego over there. Apparently everything is flipped on it’s head and the fenians are to blame for everything, there was no sectarianism before they decided to stop licking the imperialist jack-boot-you know that kind of thing.

    If you didn’t laugh you would cry

  • David C

    On the parade thing, maybe the mainstream Orange could elbow Wacky Willie out of the way and pursue the Orangefest thing down south, maybe with a parade called “Twelfth On Tour: Off 2 Dublin In Da Orange (Old Skool)” or something.”

    Well apart from the name (!) that’s one excellent idea – I would really hope they would get a warm welcome and it would be an excellent chance for them to dismantle a lot of the myths about their organisation in the eyes of southerners.

    There are also dozens of orange lodges in the border counties, as well as the orange district of Dublin & Wicklow (and I think they’ve set up lodges in Cork and Limerick recently too) so there would also be room for a significant southern minority input into such an event too.

  • Obscure Reference

    Orangefest is a step in the right direction but it’s too late. The ingredients just aren’t there for a fun time for all the family, people just aren’t going to start appreciating “a good Northern Marching Band” because they are shite. Get a Jamaican steel band and start having fun. Even if they ditch the sectarian banners carried by dead-eyed, sunken-cheeked, mustachioed fellows in dandruff shouldered suits the whole thing is just too dour and dreary. For the record the only march I’ve seen was in Paisley, Scotland, and absolutely nobody seemed to be having a good time, the atmosphere was grim.

  • Cruimh

    what else did you expect in Paisley, Scotland ?

  • ciaran

    Looking at willies website I would have to worry about his mental state( if I gave a shite that is). If he really wants a peaceful parade maybe he should leave the orange order and loyallist bands behind.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Glensman – “Willie Frazer. What can you say, if I was a Unionist I would be very embarrassed to have this man claim to represent me.”

    Well, you’re not a Unionist and I think he should be commended for all the work he does to highlight issues affecting victims. Typically on Slugger, Sinn Fein IRA supporters and other Pan-Nationalists focus on the man not the ball. They don’t bother to mention the fact that the Sinn Fein IRA terrorist group they support murdered many of his relatives. They don’t like being reminded of their hate crimes against Protestants.

    The Sinn Fein IRA campaign of murder, torture and ethnic cleansing needs to be highlighted. I think Willie Frazer has every right to speak about the hate crimes committed against his family and the wider Unionist community. It’s nothing to do with how many votes he got at an election. Most Unionists would like to hear more from the DUP about issues affecting victims. But it might be a bit awkward for Paisley to ask his Deputy about his past sectarian hate crimes against Protestants.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=opinion-qqqm=opinion-qqqa=general-qqqid=35646-qqqx=1.asp

  • ciaran

    p&j not more of this crap.Ethnic cleansing my arse.Ethnic cleansing refers to various policies or practices aimed at the displacement of an ethnic group from a particular territory in order to create a supposedly ethnically “pure” society.If there was any attempt at cleansing it could be argued that it was protestants who tried it when they burnt catholics out of their homes and murdered those who didn’t get out quick enough.What occured here was a series of tit for tat murders on both sides as the levels of violence escalated.As for willies murdered relatives you don’t mention the fact they were ruc , udr,.I am not trying to justify their killings , neither am I trying to make them look like innocent victims. And if willie is really interested in helping victims of violence why is he only helping one group. No other support group is so rigid in their stance as to who they will help.

  • PeaceandJustice

    ciaran – “Ethnic cleansing refers to various policies or practices aimed at the displacement of an ethnic group from a particular territory in order to create a supposedly ethnically ‘pure’ society.”

    That’s exactly what Sinn Fein IRA did along the border – murdering the only son of Protestants and forcing families to flee. Will those Protestant families be compensated?

    ciaran – “as for willies murdered relatives you don’t mention the fact they were ruc , udr,.I am not trying to justify their killings , neither am I trying to make them look like innocent victims.”

    So what are you trying to do? They were innocent people serving their community. Compare that to Sinn Fein IRA death squads murdering people in front of their families.

    ciaran – “No other support group is so rigid in their stance as to who they will help.”

    There are many SF-IRA support groups only interested in what they call ‘state violence’. No mention from them that Sinn Fein-IRA were involved in hate crimes against decent Protestants.

    You’re obviously on Planet Republican.

  • I wonder…

    “They were innocent people serving their community.”

    Does anyone here (“P&J” for instance) recall SF councillors such as Eddie Fullerton and do they similarly fall into this category?

  • ciaran

    PJ, here you go with more of the same crap. To say there was ethnic cleansing on either side is nonsense. You know as well as I that it was ,as I said before, tit for tat killing which occurred all over the six counties committed by both sides. You say frazers family were innocent victims serving their community, about as innocent as ira members serving their communities. The frazers, as members of the ruc, udr and glenane murder gang were not innocents.Wether that makes them legitimate targets is something else, but innocents they were not.

    “There are many SF-IRA support groups only interested in what they call ‘state violence’. No mention from them that Sinn Fein-IRA were involved in hate crimes against decent Protestants. ”

    Yes interested in state crimes but not excluding protestants as victims.And what hate crimes are you refering to.

  • Gréagóir O’ Fráinclín

    This time round there are about 25 or so marching bands and about 3,000 people proposing to take part.
    Me, I think it is a bit too soon. I think the issues of parades should be resolved in Ulster first. Make the peace with your Catholic neighbours first in NI, as the good book the Bible says.
    I saw the bands last year in Dublin and they were bedecked and banging away in full regailia, wearing those Trumpton outfits, Union flags etc… Kinda strange for such a solemn occasion of remembering those who were murdered by the IRA. Is that the Ulster Protestant approach to such? Besides, the website for the group FAIR is totally biased and quite slanderous.
    Also strange too that they want to march in a ‘foreign country’ as they call Eire or the Republic of Ireland. A place that some Unionists sneer and snub on any given occasion.
    Last year the riots that broke out were the fault of juveniles; young thugs as such who’d riot for any reason. The building materials that were close by provided them with instant missiles. The gardai expected no trouble that day and were undermanned. Full riot gear will be employed this time as Dublin will become what NI is on such occasions of the 12th. I believe FAIR want to make a political issue with this. Why can’t a more dignified procession of the victims families be held minus all the thumbing drumming bands and regalia, which ye wouldn’t even see with other communities in the UK.

  • barnshee

    Don`t disapoint Willie lads -he`s counting on being attacked again.

    The absolute worst thing for Willie is to have the parade welcomed and finish with a beaming bertie stand at the finish line to whip in into arcarsehole ( I may have mispelled the name of the building)for tea and sympathy.

    Don`t let him down– get out there and chuck bricks