Application of precedent

DUP MLA William Hay has called for Derry City Council to remove the Hunger Strike Memorial in the city’s cemetery following the Equality Commission’s ruling on the Dromore Memorial. The Council had previously determined it had no legal basis to remove the statue.

  • overhere

    If this is all that the duers have to occupy them at present then they better start saving their pennys as they will need then when they have no jobs !!

  • Bemused

    Shoddy sentiments overhere – the statue is an utter fucking disgrace and should be demolished forthwith – any contrary stance would be indefensibly hypocritcal.

  • Terry Doherty

    If you want to find any statue that “is an utter fucking disgrace” you’ll be hard pushed tp pass Derry’s War Memorial, with its unforgetable image of a British Tommy bayonating a fallen enemy. Thankfully they haven’t included the enemy but it leaves little to the imagination.

    Given the record of the British Army in Derry, I’d reckon whistling willie would get a fair amount of support if he called for the Diamond to be a memorial free zone.

  • URQUHART

    Well said Bemused.

  • Greágóir O’ Frainclín

    The staue looks very tacky…..kinda like that Braveheart yoke of Mel Gibson. Could better sculptors be employed.

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    hear, hear Terry.

  • Loyalist

    A war memorial showing someone “bayonetting an enemy” without the enemy? Hmmmm….clutching at straws methinks.

  • observer

    Oh dear, that statue really is woeful, regardless of politician leanings I think I would object to it anyone. I’d be embarassed to have that near where I live – All hail the glorious hooded soldier who hides in ditches and stalks his victims.

  • Joe

    What the hell has a memorial to ira Terrorists got to do with football, its a compelte embarrasment to the football club and should be bulldozed into oblivion.

  • Trotsky

    Terry Doherty

    Don’t worry the lumpen Provo scum within the city confines are doing their best to ensure The Diamond becomes a “memorial free zone” with their constant attacks on the Cenotaph.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Joe, Trotsky,
    Read the article. It’s INLA, not PIRA.

  • Irish Republican in America

    “Oh dear, that statue really is woeful… I’d be embarassed to have that near where I live – All hail the glorious hooded soldier who hides in ditches and stalks his victims.All hail the glorious hooded soldier who hides in ditches and stalks his victims.”

    -Sounds like every battle during WWI

  • Trotsky

    Aaron

    I’m sure the lumpen INLA scum had there part to play in the constant attacks on the Cenotaph also.

  • Fraggle

    Joe, the memorial is in a cemetary so it doesn’t have much to do with football at all. Also, it’s an INLA memorial. Please at least read the story before going off on a rant.

    The soldier on the diamond war memorial is depicted in the process of plunging his bayonet into something. It doesn’t leave an aweful lot to the imagination. He’s not repotting plants with the bayonet.

    Now comparing the diamond war memorial with the braveheart thing in the cemetary, our Gregory had this to say:

    “Democratic Unionist Party security spokesman Gregory Campbell described it as a glorification of violence and said the memorial was offensive to Protestants.

    “One of the worst terrorist atrocities in the entire history of the Troubles was by the INLA, 12 miles from the city cemetery, in Ballykelly,” he said.

    It’s not too hard to turn this around and say:

    The diamond war memorial is a glorification of violence and offensive to catholics.

    One of the worst terrorist atrocities in the entire history of the troubles was by the british army, close to the city centre, in the bogside.

    Take them both down.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Trotsky,
    There are always lumpen scum from all over the place who’ll attack physically war memorials and graves. I condemn all such attacks.

    I wonder if Gregory Campbell has condemned the destruction and vandalism of the actual graves and gravestones in Milltown cemetary recently? I doubt it, but I would love to be told otherwise.

    If/when we reach the point in this thread where we all know some facts (i.e. have at least glanced at the articles) and have all realised that vandalism of graves and memorials is something all politicians should consistently condemn, we might then be able to have a grown up discussion about this particular memorial.

  • There are lots of Catholic people’s names on the War Memorial at the Diamond, lots of local people who fought in World War One.
    There was a local geneaology project on it which produced very interesting results.
    I personally see the two statues as portraying the real horror of war.
    Neither the soldier or the sailor look terribly happy about what they are doing.
    I find it very hard to compare the two conflicts, obviously it is easier for others.
    Now that I’ve finished being a War Bore, and regarding the gormless gunman, there are victims of INLA killings buried in the City Cemetery, can’t be very nice for them.

  • Fraggle

    CaveCanem, I’m sure the war memorial seemed a lot more innocent before Bloody Sunday.

  • Free Agent

    Is this discussion actually happening?
    Wake me up bloggers when you’ve caught up with the politics of the 21st century.

  • GavBelfast

    Fraggle,

    The Diamond memorial remembers the fallen of the two World Wars, not the Paras.

    Catholics, Protestants, other religions and none are commemorated on it, the annual service at it is now inter-denominational and the Republic’s tricolour flies there alongside the other flags on 11 November.

    Hardly offensive now is it?

  • picador

    GB

    Hardly offensive now is it?

    Well, obviously some people think it is.

    The monstrosity in the City Cemetary is a monument to bad taste. Pull it down. Or sell it to loyalists.

  • deadmanonleave

    I think that there are far more worthy causes for politicians to get involved in that trying to pull down a memorial to the dead volunteers of the INLA.

    I think that every organisation in the conflict has a right to comemorate those that died, and if the statue is what the Republican Socialist Movement believe is appropriate on their own plot, then that’s their business and frankly the DUP and their fellow travellers need to get a life and move on.

  • Diluted Orange

    How is it a hunger strike memorial? Did they smear it in shite or something?

  • Dr Strangelove

    Diluted – I think you are getting your protests mixed up… Nurse, a history book please !

  • Diluted Orange

    Dr Strangelove I’m merely pointing out that from the photo of the memorial provided it looks just like a statue of an INLA man, or more like Scott of the Antarctic. Pretty sure they didn’t dress like that in Long Kesh. It doesn’t convey very much about the INLA hunger strikes to me, maybe they’re hoping a lot of birds shit on it or something to bring a sense of realism to it.

    Maybe I am mixing my protests up – was smearing shite over themselves part of the blankets protest and not the hunger strikes or something? I would quite like this nurse you speak of to find me a history book on it, written by an objective source of course. I don’t think you’ll find many.

    To be honest I’m not too bothered if I don’t know the ins and outs of what these wannabe martyrs wanted to label as ‘history’. Maybe if there is a United Ireland someday then my kids might have to learn about the heroics of some coprophiliac killers as part of the cirriculum. Until that day it’s not particularly relevant however much the Shinners want it to be.

    Whatever next? Statues of piss-stained, incontinent pensioners at Stormont? Well I suppose if Paisley does become first minister he’ll have to be honoured in some way or another …

  • Aonrai

    Why do Paisley and his lackies think the IRSM will care one bit? I know he thinks we’re all the same, but the fact is the irps don’t back the gfa and don’t see it as their job to jump every time the DUP moans. The IRSM are unbroken and aren’t looking to appease any reactionaries.

    As for Ballykelly, that wasn’t an INLA job, historians who aren’t friendly to the irps will tell you that. One INLA vol. was involved but was later dealt with and the attack was condemned.

  • Harry Flashman

    I suppose Darkley wasn’t a “Republican Socialist” attack either? Nice history the IRPS have, real classy.

  • deadmanonleave

    Aonrai/Harry Flashman,
    I think you’re confusing Ballykelly – bomb at a disco attended by British troops which killed some civilians as well and which the RSM has defended as a successful and justifiable operation in view of the military loss inflicted on the British forces with Darkley which was a sectarian attack on worshippers which involved an INLA volunteer who was disciplined by the organisation for his part in it. I’ve stated before about Darkley, and I’ll state it again, Dominic McGlinchey was on the run and came out of hiding to give a press conference condemning the attack. It was a disgrace, and the RSM have never, to my knowledge pretended otherwise.

    There is no way that most of the people here will view the INLA’s campaign as justified, and I can accept people’s right to feel that way. However what really disheartens me is the attitude that the RSM cannot commemorate their fallen members in their own chosen way. Nobody is hurt by this statue, nobody’s marching through an area where they aren’t welcome and the INLA cessation has been the most solid of any organisation. Let them commemorate and respect their dead for heaven’s sake.

    This is just a distraction from far more important things that people should get het up about.

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    All of this hogwash from William Hay etc, is washed away with the announcement that the UDA – aka the UPRG – is to be given £1m of public money to move away from violence. That’s not a joke – it’s on the BBC website as I speak.

    Given that the Irish Language Broadcasting Fund had to go through an EQIA before it got money to make television programmes – no violence was threatened etc – how come this money isn’t subject to an EQIA? Is it some sort of retirement fund, paying off the old soldiers who did their bit for Queen and Country?

    Was the DUP involved in negotiating this money and if so how does it sit with their policy of not sitting down with terrorists, especially ones who have not decommissioned and who are still involved in criminality, violence and paramilitarism?

  • deadmanonleave

    I have to say that thehypocrisy of that particular move sits ill next to any criticism of the Irps for putting a statue up with their own money.

    Contrast this with the PSNI’s raids and closing down of Teach na Failte, the INLA ex-POW’s organisation who had their doors broken down, computers taken, members intimidated for a grand total of no charges. Absolutely typifies the British government’s attitude to the North, buy off one group, crack down on another, turn a blind eye or 26 million to another – whatever it takes to preserve a sectarian agreement that copper-fastens the divisions that their occupation has created.

  • deadmanonleave

    (the hypocrisy)

  • willie gallagher

    We in the IRSP dont give a dam what the DUP or opponents of of the memorial statue think, say or do about it. Its there to stay so like it or lump.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]We in the IRSP dont give a dam what the DUP or opponents of of the memorial statue think, say or do about it. Its there to stay so like it or lump.[/i]

    I’m glad the IRSP has so many articulate spokesmen like yourself, what ‘dam’ are you not going to give? Spelga of something?

    I think you’ll find the decision about whether a memorial to your meal dodging, murdering comrades stays or not will be down to the government, then [i]you[/i] can like it or lump it.

  • deadmanonleave

    I think that there’s plenty of poor spelling on all sides too to be fair.

    Mind, correcting someone’s spelling and attacking the dead of another movement is a poor substitute for answering any of my points.

    Again, why on earth get so upset with what the RSM does on their own plot to commemorate their dead comrades? It’s not like the Government giving an organisation up to its necks in drugs and gangsterism a million quid or turning a blind eye to a bank robbery.

    Sure I could understand if the Irps or the Provos or whoever wanted to ram glorification of their history up people’s nose by marching up and down Protestant areas then people would get upset, but we knowthat that sort of thing wouldn’t happen in a civilised society, don’t we? Let them keep their statue.