Leaked Hain letter now online…

THE Ulster Unionists have published the controversial letter from Peter Hain to the Transitional Assembly’s sub-group on policing and justice on their website, saying it demolishes the DUP’s ‘triple lock’ spin. UUP leader Sir Reg Empey argues that “the proposal amounted to a Ministerial directive, and held out the very real prospect of a Sinn Fein Minister of Policing and Justice by May 2008, regardless and in spite of DUP claims of a ‘triple lock’ on the issue”.

  • Pete Baker

    Reg can argue what he likes, Gonzo. But I think he’s completely wrong on this.

    For a start, the ‘triple lock’ was a Government description.. and they’ve publicly agreed that the conditions on the ground are critical to devolving those powers.

    There’s also an, admittedly unnamed, senior government source briefing that a minister could not be imposed against the wishes of the Assembly.. which kinda jars with Reg’s interpretation.

  • That unnamed government advisor from the Northern Ireland office can state anything he/she of they like Afterall this Secretary of State is none other than, Pater Hain. Peter is well known to bend the democratic and legal roadmap anyway he see’s fit. The letter on the Ulster Unionist Website proves beyond any shadow of doubt the hypocracy and disengenious of the Secretary of State.

  • Pete Baker

    Parnell

    It doesn’t matter who the Secretary of State is.

    Think about the practicalities involved in imposing a Minister on a fully functioning Assembly when there is not the support within that Assembly.

    Then there are the practicalities involved in imposing the devolution of policing and justice powers against the wishes of that Assembly.

    It’s just not workable unless the main parties agree to it.

    Reg would be better off asking why the Secretary of State wants to give the impression that he could do that.. when he can’t.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Yes Pete, of course this is all subject to UUP spin. But one gets the strong feeling that the Government is kite-flying at the same time.

    Chris Thornton had something in the Tele today that doesn’t appear to be online yet, but which also carried the Government line on the appointment after Peter Robinson’s ‘death-knell’ statement:

    THE Government backed off today from suggestions that Peter Hain was prepared to appoint a Stormont justice minister over the head of unionist objections.

    In response to DUP unease, a Government source said Mr Hain is prepared to appoint a justice minister if the Assembly asks him.

    Soon after he [Robinson] made his comments, the Government source spoke to PA News.

    “First of all, the paper we have put to the parties at the sub group is not a fixed position and is just a number of ideas that we would like them to consider,” the source said.

    “We believe following what Peter Hain has described as a seismic shift on policing, that May 2008 is a realistic target date for achieving the transfer of policing and justice powers.

    “We are not suggesting that following the restoration of a power sharing government in March, that in May 2008 we would impose a minister on any devolved administration.

    “Rather we have proposed to the sub group that if necessary they could go to the Secretary of State and ask him to appoint a minister if they felt that would achieve cross community support — especially if that person were to be drawn from a party that is not currently able to qualify for ministries in a devolved government.

    “So people should be careful not to see things in these proposals that in reality are not there.”

  • The letter on the Ulster Unionist Website proves beyond any shadow of doubt the hypocracy and disengenious of the Secretary of State.

    The DUP Frog comes up against the Brit govt Scorpion, Peter “Time to go” Hain.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Reg would be better off asking why the Secretary of State wants to give the impression that he could do that.. when he can’t.

    But that’s obvious, isn’t it?

  • Pete Baker

    Not to Reg, apparently.. ;o)

  • joeCanuck

    I would imagine that the members of the International Brotherhood of Fan Cleaners will be getting paid overtime.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Pete, Hain’s latest ‘helping hand’ to Gerry seems to have the whiff of bullshit last smelt round the time of the failed promise on OTR legislation.

    Speaking of which, anyone know what the latest cunning plan to sneak them back in is?

  • Speaking of which, anyone know what the latest cunning plan to sneak them back in is?

    Same as the last plan, Brit OTR’s like Brig Gordon Kerr, and all security personel get immunity from prosecution.

  • joeCanuck

    I wouldn’t surprise me in the least Gonzo if a secret Executive Order has already been issued and that the OTRs are already back home enjoying their pensions.

  • I wouldn’t surprise me in the least Gonzo if a secret Executive Order has already been issued and that the OTRs are already back home enjoying their pensions.

    Funny you should say that Joe.

    Brig Gordon Kerr had dinner with ex head of Scotland Yards Art Squad Dick Ellis over Christmas in London (Art recovery matters).

    Seems Brig Gordon Kerr may have compeleted his role in Iraq, teaching the Shite’s how to conduct a civil war, remember the Golden Dome, another piece of Brig Gordon Kerr’s handywork in getting the Shite’s hackles up, then training them in the craft of civil war.

    Brig Gordon Kerr is the master of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

    Wonder where he first learnt to do this??

  • joeCanuck

    Indeed A.H.

    If Kerr were to be brought before the war crimes tribunal at the Hague and all of the evidence dragged out of the secret British closets, I have little doubt that he would be found guilty of war crimes.
    But that will never happen.
    My prediction for 2007 – shortly after the assembly is reconvened, a general amnesty will be issued for all “political” crimes committed prior to the signing of the GFA.

  • My prediction for 2007 – shortly after the assembly is reconvened, a general amnesty will be issued for all “political” crimes committed prior to the signing of the GFA.

    Why stop there?

    Amnesty from March 2008 for all crimes, political, including fund raising, and asset retention by those who may have gained the odd euro/Pound.

    CAB/ARA ordered to close all investigations and start afresh from March 2008.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Think about the practicalities involved in imposing a Minister on a fully functioning Assembly when there is not the support within that Assembly.

    The assembly wouldn’t have to be fully functioning. They could shut it down and keep an “executive” consisting entirely of local politicians selected by the Secretary of State. At last, a Northern Ireland Sovnarkom as I have always dreamed.

    The thing is, I think Hain would be crazy enough to try a stupid stunt like that just to try to coerce the DUP. And what difference is there between Hain appointing a Justice minister to a quango Executive, and Hain appointing another member of the British government in that position ? Six of one ..

  • Pete Baker

    “At last, a Northern Ireland Sovnarkom as I have always dreamed.”

    You and Peter Hain, Comrade. ;o)

  • gerry

    gonzo your link for the letter isn’t working

  • Elvis Parker

    I’m no DUP fan but Reg is trying desperately to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He is so desperate he raises the prospect of an imminent SF policing minister – when we all know that SF and DUP will be effectively excluded from these posts until 2011

  • Belfast Gonzo

    gerry

    That’s it sorted now.

  • ingram

    Pete,

    I think Hain is just flying a kite.

    let us not forget the sight of Connor Murphy stood on the steps of the British Parliament stating clearly (for him)that the NI offences bill was a good deal and that Sinn Fein fully supported the bill.

    The victims of the Monaghan Bombing, Blood Sunday and the Finucane family amongst many others all turned on them ( HMG&SF) and they backed off the idea, not surprisingly.

    Sinn Fein/HMG want and need a line drawn in the sand. They cannot face the truth that Republicans were involved in collusion with HMG just like the UDA/UVF was and remain to this day.

    The one nigger in the woods for all parties in NI is the short natural life expectancy of the Blair Government. Mr Brown I am told holds no great desire to have his name tatooed into history as the man who “sorted” Ireland out unlike Mr Blair.

    That may suit the DUP who can continue to play the long game.

    You never know, it took Sinn Fein thirty years to discover they were really SDLP types, what is the betting in another thirty years they could be UUP?

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • joeCanuck

    Shame on you Ingram for using that offensive word.

  • ingram

    You Canadians are easily upset.

    Collusion is not an offensive word old boy. LOL

    No offence intended. Any taken then I am sorry.

    Happy New Year.

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • Martin, you know you have let yourself down by using that word.

    Of all the offensive words possible, that one is universaly condemmed as one of the most revolting, if not, The most revolting.

    Sometimes we make mistakes, lets hope you never use that reference again.

    To be forgiven you must, at the very least, stop using ding ding.

  • ingram

    Arty Babe,

    I did say sorry and meant it.

    That said. Take a look at this definition:

    Definition 3 Nigger: is not normally considered disparaging—as in “The Irish are the niggers of Europe” from Roddy Doyle’s The Commitments—but the other uses are considered contemptuous and hostile.

    a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.

    Shall we return to topic lads. After all we are disenfranchised are we not from the political realities.

    Ding Ding

    Martin

    Ding Ding.

  • Pete: when I think of the unelected unwanted and unnecessary Secretary of State, Peter Hain, an imposed superfluous two-faced, deceitful, untrustworthy, incompetent, useless and completely inept individual. Just saying, like. Apart from that, he’s probably a straight sort – Just like the rest of his breed, the Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland.

  • Daidy

    It would seem tha Peter Hain is not the only one who has got some explaining to do! Apparantly comments made by David Hanson about the North South agenda suggest it could well be withdrawn.

    Speaking in Westminister, he made remarks that would freeze the north south agenda and hold back hard work to build an all-Ireland economy, and that, furthermore, he did so in response to pre-planned questions from Peter Robinson of the DUP. This maybe significiant as he made it clear that everything on North South would have to be approved by the Executive where, after SF/DUP negotiating, it was conceded that the DUP would be able to veto it. He also made it clear that if anything on North South was not approved by the Executive, it could be struck down by the courts.

    Am I the only one to find this worrying in the extreme? Clearly the correct legal situation needs to be made clear.

    Source of the above information? None other than Mark Durkan MP

    If this is what was agreed by SF/DUP at St Andrew’s then God help us!

  • USA

    Ingram,
    You had to type it out, your use of the “N” word is not acceptable.

  • Yokel

    Daidy

    Rumour had it that Robisnon did some serious stitching in negotiatiosn so it wouldnt surprise me.

    The key issue is whether such a situation, if it exists in such stark terms, is used destructively or not. It wouldn’t do the DUP any good at all. By and large the Unionist population are content with some North/South Co-Operation. The DUP’s strong electoral position has little to do with the mass radicalisation of the Unionist population. It has got to where it is today because Unionists felt they were getting a crap deal, not because they are all natural DUP voters.